Problem: Lineages Die Out Due to Updates... Towns Do Also

Spoonwood · 2019-12-10 19:49:44

There's been talk about why lineages die out. One that I don't recall getting much attention is that updates kill lineages. All of them in present existence die out when the update gets pushed.

Example: I once had 3 Eve lineages going on at the same time. Alright, maybe you want to tell me that I should have had only one. But, I could have gotten one by pure luck instead of siding into it back then. It was a Friday afternoon and they died out rather early, because of an update. They didn't have a chance, because of an update process.

Towns also need to get found, which seems like sheer luck unless one cleverly uses Hetuw mod to figure out a town's absolute coordinates (requires hearing a belltower), after an update period if they are to survive.

Were it the case that Eve chaining could happen with more than 3 fertile females on a server, or people could choose to appear as an Eve in a spot if they lived to 60, at least towns wouldn't be so fragile due to updates.

Also, since updates kill off lineages, isn't there more hope for the future immediately after an update, and less hope for the future when an update is soon to hit? It seems kind of strange that the system kind of encourages players to have more interest at a certain time, but it kind of feels that way if you think about it.

Last edited by Spoonwood (2019-12-11 15:16:10)

Lava · 2019-12-11 03:12:23

They do die out quick prob because theirs more eves then there should be.

Spoonwood · 2019-12-11 04:22:57

There's more Eves than there should be shortly before an update period? I don't know why there would be more Eves shortly before an update than otherwise.

Bowser · 2019-12-11 10:39:31

In almost every case, lineages die because they got griefers and weren't prepared for it (MAKE PADS!!!), or because it's in the early hours on the morning and there's a shortage of players... or either of these combined with bad luck on births and/or females who don't realize how critical their role is and die to stupid things.

Obviously the apocalypse that occurred today didn't help, and made starving a real danger, but that's not exactly happening daily.

Last edited by Bowser (2019-12-11 10:40:16)

Spoonwood · 2019-12-11 10:56:46

Bowser wrote:

In almost every case, lineages die because they got griefers and weren't prepared for it (MAKE PADS!!!), or because it's in the early hours on the morning and there's a shortage of players... or either of these combined with bad luck on births and/or females who don't realize how critical their role is and die to stupid things.

Towns dying due to not taking medical precautions seems acceptable to me. I mean, they didn't take responsibility when they could have for healing (at least if it's a town, not an Eve camp).

But, should towns die because of bad luck with the number of incoming players or ratio of incoming players to outgoing players? I'm inclined to think not.

That said, at least when towns die because of bad luck or timing other families exist somewhere else on the map and at least one of them might survive. When an update gets puts into process, all lineages soon die.

pein · 2019-12-11 12:48:35

"dammit jensen, too many updates"

said no one ever but spoon

Spoonwood · 2019-12-11 13:18:08

pein wrote:

"dammit jensen, too many updates"
said no one ever but spoon

There was a remark by someone on the discord who wasn't me remarking on how frequent the updates were a few weeks ago. This was during the week Jason did like 3 or 4 updates instead of one update, I think.

Also, I'm not saying that updates are bad. Things least towns dying because of updates, could get mitigated were it the case that something like old Eve chaining existed in the high population context. I think it's conceivable that an Eve or some other family member restarting things under those conditions, might also get put onto the same family tree as the original one without too much work. If something like that were to happen, lineages wouldn't have to die out because of updates.

Spoonwood · 2019-12-11 13:47:13

For anyone who wants to dismiss this as a non-problem and merely a complaint of mine, please note Jason said this when talking about Boundless World 2.0 (of course, it's not literally boundless)

jasonrohrer wrote:

Eternal survival of one family will be possible through distant resource outposts and migration.

https://onehouronelife.com/forums/viewtopic.php?id=8320

sigmen4020 · 2019-12-11 14:20:39

Spoonwood wrote:

For anyone who wants to dismiss this as a non-problem and merely a complaint of mine, please note Jason said this when talking about Boundless World 2.0 (of course, it's not literally boundless)
jasonrohrer wrote:
Eternal survival of one family will be possible through distant resource outposts and migration.
https://onehouronelife.com/forums/viewtopic.php?id=8320

I know I'm gonna be hyperbolic here but eternal survival of one family is literally impossible. A beginning has to have an end in this life.

So eternal survival of one family will always be impossible, no matter what Jason does.

Spoonwood · 2019-12-11 14:36:03

The game isn't going to last forever, of course.

But a week just can't get meaningfully said to mean "eternal survival". It's 10,080 OHOL years. But, genetic scoring has existed for at least 228,000 years now.

Also, it's supposed to be the future sometime. The Earth is 5,000,000,000 years old last I checked. 10,080 years is a mere fraction of 1 billion years and thus one OHOL week is more like a second than an eternity.

Last edited by Spoonwood (2019-12-11 14:37:12)

pein · 2019-12-11 14:50:35

some updates require no server restart and the rest is important enough for a wipe even
gettign back near 0 0 would have a lot of advantages

last time the update went down, all eves were in or near bell town

Booklat1 · 2019-12-11 15:44:22

lines dying eventually is not an issue.

how long should lines last anyway?

This all boils down to the point in which most content in this game suffers, there's not always this clearest idea of how the features we posses will help the game achieve Jason's plan.

Don't get me wrong, Jason does have his ideas for how content works and should work, the problem is that they dont always coincide (and sometimes he may even be wrong about the former).

"why are you saying all this, Book?"
Well, because both lines and cities suffer from Jason believing their existence creates a paradox. You've heard it before, "some people want fresh starts, some people want lasting effects, which do we get?". In a sense Jason is absolutely right, the ability to restart should exist and it should even be something that's pushed on us after some time. Not just because it's fun to restart, but because all things eventually end. It's not an accurate depiction of reality if all 10 of 10 closely related lineages, living close together manage to survive for long periods of time. Natural history shows us extinct species make up for the vast majority of know groups. It sucks but even that cool city we've built for should at the very list be at risk of being lost - either because all lines there died and its location forgotten or because the very structure of the city made life unsustainable (too few resources, for example).

This is where I think Jason is like 98% right. Im sure he still can find more ways of allowing towns and lines in different stages coincide and interact in the world and that will be a huge upgrade to the game.

What i`m uncertain about is if the latest updates focused on restricting player options to boost player interaction will make the overall pacing of the game and development/sustaining of towns/lines any more interesting. It's still a matter of resources and its still a matter of technical issues like this post talks about. Sometimes lines will end because that update changed everything and this is fine. But we can't take these updates for a valid example of the longevity of lines.

will this game ever get to a point that typical lines spam from few hours to a week but still occasionally getting one over two weeks? Hopefully. I think thats what Jason would want if he was certain he could also make young lines generate and coexist. And the same is true for cities tbh.

Spoonwood · 2019-12-11 19:05:30

Booklat1 wrote:

It's not an accurate depiction of reality if all 10 of 10 closely related lineages, living close together manage to survive for long periods of time.

I don't think that likely to happen. Lineages end due to griefers. Even with someone having the ability to get reborn in the same spot, it could only hold for one family member who say lived to 60. That person can have a disconnect, die to some misclick, get killed by a griefer, or get overconfident in the wilderness and die due to some wild animal.

Also, when Eve-chaining existed for the big population context, I don't think that all families survived, or that the Eve always revived that town.

Booklat1 wrote:

Sometimes lines will end because that update changed everything and this is fine.

I might misunderstand you, but I don't think I agree. Were it the case that some future update changed conditions drastically such that the current town location became unliveable or undesireable similar to what happened with the temperature overhaul for some, lineages should end only if the family members do not adapt adequately to the changes. Yes, fresh starts are needed. But forcing those isn't good in general, and I don't see advantages to doing that. Even the apocalypse that made it so that people had to adapt to the changes from the ground up that the pump overhaul, a change I was in favor of, was not a good idea. There's a concern about people living in towns which got built by older systems? But there is only so much space for a town. Resources move further and further out over time. And as The Rift taught many players, and I suspect long-term low pop players tend to know this also, that living in advanced towns can and will eventually get stale or require endless creativity which I don't find bad, since it maintains interest in those who can do it. And that implies that there can exist a motivation for starting over without a need to attempt to force it.

Booklat1 wrote:

I think thats what Jason would want if he was certain he could also make young lines generate and coexist.

I don't know if you knew this, but Jason said once that he would do a choice screen when there were concerns about the number of sids. He decided not to do it. However, that means that he could make a choice screen where some to all players could select to be Eve. That might conflict with other goals he has in mind. But, calls for an "Eve button", suggest that there would not be any need for Jason to have an algorithm to generate young lines. He could, just create such a button, and players would choose to generate those young lines themselves. Interfamily cursing is a thing, and he could spread out Eve spawning as much as he likes. So, he could make it so that young lines coexist and with an assurance that they would be in existence.

Thanks for the comment Booklat. It's good to see you around.

One Hour One Life Forums

#1 2019-12-10 19:49:44

Problem: Lineages Die Out Due to Updates... Towns Do Also

#2 2019-12-11 03:12:23

Re: Problem: Lineages Die Out Due to Updates... Towns Do Also

#3 2019-12-11 04:22:57

Re: Problem: Lineages Die Out Due to Updates... Towns Do Also

#4 2019-12-11 10:39:31

Re: Problem: Lineages Die Out Due to Updates... Towns Do Also

#5 2019-12-11 10:56:46

Re: Problem: Lineages Die Out Due to Updates... Towns Do Also

#6 2019-12-11 12:48:35

Re: Problem: Lineages Die Out Due to Updates... Towns Do Also

#7 2019-12-11 13:18:08

Re: Problem: Lineages Die Out Due to Updates... Towns Do Also

#8 2019-12-11 13:47:13

Re: Problem: Lineages Die Out Due to Updates... Towns Do Also

#9 2019-12-11 14:20:39

Re: Problem: Lineages Die Out Due to Updates... Towns Do Also

#10 2019-12-11 14:36:03

Re: Problem: Lineages Die Out Due to Updates... Towns Do Also

#11 2019-12-11 14:50:35

Re: Problem: Lineages Die Out Due to Updates... Towns Do Also

#12 2019-12-11 15:44:22

Re: Problem: Lineages Die Out Due to Updates... Towns Do Also

#13 2019-12-11 19:05:30

Re: Problem: Lineages Die Out Due to Updates... Towns Do Also

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