Bell towers are too OP - mod users can see exact coordinates.

Coconut Fruit · 2019-11-26 16:14:28

Bell towers are too OP.
Once a bell tower is used, mod users can see exact coordinates where was it used.

Either make it work for vanilla users too or remove it so nobody can see coordinates where a bell tower was used.

Yeah, the town with the bell tower is the most advanced town, but it's clearly cheating, isn't it?

Not removing bell tower its function that shows exact coordinates to mod users would be a hipocrisy. You either want us to search other families or not. Allowing it only to mod users through a cheated way means that you know that this update (family specializations) just doesn't work.

DiscardedSlinky · 2019-11-26 16:26:25

Or just use the mod.

If you feel like it gives you such an advantage why not use it? Pride getting in the way?

Also it DOES give it to all players. The bell home marker doesn't go away. It'll be pointing to it your entire life unless you set your own home marker.

Starknight_One · 2019-11-26 16:46:02

Bell towers have always worked this way, as has the clients handling of map markers. The client *has* to know where the destination coordinates are, relative to where you were born, in order to display the arrow. It's the same mechanism used for home markers and maps, as well; changing one requires changing the others. (Okay, technically it hasn't *always* worked like this, but the server stopped sending real coordinates - i.e., relative to the map origin - to the clients a long time ago.)

I can't think of a good way to tell the client where to point the home arrow without giving it at least relative coordinates. Having it all be kept server-side will increase the amount of network traffic needed, as the server would need to either push updates to every client or respond to more data requests from the clients. I suspect that both would seriously increase the amount of weird lag artifacts that are experienced, if it didn't slow the whole server to a crawl. That's not counting CPU overhead, just network load.

Last edited by Starknight_One (2019-11-26 16:46:35)

Coconut Fruit · 2019-11-26 17:37:22

I don't use vanilla client so I'm being confused now... So bell towers set "home marker" for vanilla users? Do they do that always or only if a player didn't make his own home marker?

DiscardedSlinky · 2019-11-26 17:43:06

As long as you don't have a home marker set it will set your home marker to the bell tower.

So literally everyone in the game has access to the bells. This forum post is useless.

Wuatduhf · 2019-11-26 17:48:02

There's a very intricate and delicate history between Map coords, Belltowers, and relative coords.

Back in the olden days, long before Rift (Dec 2018) Griefers were tearing the map a new one. Because there was no /Die or life restrictions, griefers would cycle themselves until they became Eve, pulled the map coordinates from Birth (Yes, the client would give the player their position on the map), travel to the nearest existing town, and then proceed to grief the shit out of everyone and everything.

In addition, other players would actively use that in order to try and keep certain towns/cities alive persistently, or stash resources/griefing "kits" at specific coords on the map that they'd be able to find in the future.

TL;DR Giving players their precise coordinates on the infinite map made things a PITA for everyone the moments it got abused positively/negatively. Jason agreed with that stance and properly removed the ability for players to pull from the client where they were at in the map.

Shortly after this change, locating each other became a massive chore, and no one had a "point of origin" to work with anymore.

BUT, we got very lucky. Whatever's Hetuw mod was still being actively expanded, and I tossed out the idea "Hey, what if we made Belltowers the new points of origin?"

And so, Hetuw started logging the relative coordinates of Belltowers from your birthspawn, along with a myriad of other coord customization features to aid what I consider the true "Cartographers".

Maps didn't exist yet, so Hetuw was the tool to use to figure out where shit was in the world. The problem with this is that, without a Belltower, you had no idea where you were at and had to rely on pure travel to "map out" the territories.

Of course, that wasn't too huge a hassle; once a town had the tech available for Horses, you'd just get one, saddle up, and ride off into the sunset until you found landmarks/other civilizations and could plot the two villages on X and Y.

You also have to keep in mind, a new problem emerges the moment that there isn't a Single belltower on the map. If you're a fresh-spawn and a bell rings, and two exist, how do you know which is which?

You don't.

However, if both are rung, you can plot the distance between the two to re-verify. Triangulation, essentially. But if only one is rung, or worse, if the old one is never rung and only the new one is rung, people may end up going to the new Belltower instead of going to what they thought was the more-ancient Belltower.

In the grand scheme of things, Belltower coordinate gameplay is valid gameplay in my opinion.

Spoonwood · 2019-11-26 17:54:23

You aren't playing a competitive game where you must win in some contest in order to succeed in OHOL. You aren't inferior in playing OHOL just because you might not get to the belltower city quite as fast. You aren't running a race. The mod user doesn't get a trophy for getting there faster. The mod user isn't proven more skillful by getting there faster. Playing the default client you won't be proven less skillful. And I don't think that the mod user getting there faster implies that such a player would be likely to have a higher genetic score than you. And genetic score comes as a matter of luck to some extent, not a matter of skill.

So, I don't see a good reason that the default client needs to have exact belltower locations for the reasons as suggested by this post.

That said, there might be more enjoyment for users of the default client to have exact coordinates after a belltower rings, so there might be value in having such in the game.

Spoonwood · 2019-11-26 17:55:41

DiscardedSlinky wrote:

As long as you don't have a home marker set it will set your home marker to the bell tower.
So literally everyone in the game has access to the bells. This forum post is useless.

I saw a streamer yesterday who didn't get a homemarker from a belltower, even after making one and digging it up.

Coconut Fruit · 2019-11-26 17:58:19

DiscardedSlinky wrote:

As long as you don't have a home marker set it will set your home marker to the bell tower.
So literally everyone in the game has access to the bells. This forum post is useless.

Thought only mod users have access to the bells. Yes this topic is useless then, sry :D

Tho maybe vanilla users should have better access to bell towers... It's hard for them to go anywhere without making a home marker.

Coconut Fruit · 2019-11-26 17:59:21

Spoonwood wrote:

DiscardedSlinky wrote:
As long as you don't have a home marker set it will set your home marker to the bell tower.
So literally everyone in the game has access to the bells. This forum post is useless.
I saw a streamer yesterday who didn't get a homemarker from a belltower, even after making one and digging it up.

Uh, so does it actually work for vanilla users or not?

Wuatduhf · 2019-11-26 18:00:35

Coconut Fruit wrote:

DiscardedSlinky wrote:
As long as you don't have a home marker set it will set your home marker to the bell tower.
So literally everyone in the game has access to the bells. This forum post is useless.
Thought only mod users have access to the bells. Yes this topic is useless then, sry
Tho maybe vanilla users should have better access to bell towers... It's hard for them to go anywhere without making a home marker.

Agreed. Belltowers not giving the proper direction ping is a bug that should be address, at minimum regular Joe Schmoe's should 100% of the time receive the coordinates and visual direction (The arrow and amount to travel).

Last edited by Wuatduhf (2019-11-26 18:00:50)

DestinyCall · 2019-11-26 18:11:27

There needs to be a way to see the bell tower marker AND your home marker at the same time. Otherwise, you have to choose between being able to find your way home or being able to find a new town.

How are you supposed to travel between distant locations if you can only travel in one direction without getting completely lost?

pein · 2019-11-26 20:23:48

making them 18 hours, getting crowns, electrum and alum to make gold the other way, sure is op, you fucking do it for 18 hours

plus al lthe effort players put into making maps, horses, way stones

all coords are relative not absolute and all coords are exact on maps and bells, so it's not a mod feature

jealous much? I knew the cities in a 2000x950 box when I made the map, spent 3 lifes to discover all and know the way back
had to bring 2 girls in 2 occasions to bell town

slinky, you can still track your cords on vanilla, Oholcoordinates0.1 sows birth coords, I was doing with that just fine

Last edited by pein (2019-11-26 20:25:06)

Spoonwood · 2019-11-26 21:43:17

pein wrote:

making them 18 hours, getting crowns, electrum and alum to make gold the other way, sure is op, you fucking do it for 18 hours

Jason changed it so that like stone walls, bell tower bases take 10 hours to stabilize. For those who don't know every other stage takes 3 hours to stabilize. Thus, it's 25 hours for a belltower to complete minimum. It's not like Eve camps have been known to be likely to start on them. And is someone placing the next stage every 3 hours, or does it take even longer? Anyways, with a child every 30 minutes, it's 50 generations if the Eve were to start on the belltower.

And though Pein is perhaps a little harsh with his sarcastic tone, his logic is correct. Belltowers take a long time and it's a lot of effort for a family to get one up in a continuously existing settlement. If you think you think that's easy, you have a lot to learn.

JasonY · 2019-11-26 23:36:19

It's also the only real way to make a city. You need to draw in all races to reach the end game.

DiscardedSlinky · 2019-11-27 01:36:54

Spoonwood wrote:

DiscardedSlinky wrote:
As long as you don't have a home marker set it will set your home marker to the bell tower.
So literally everyone in the game has access to the bells. This forum post is useless.
I saw a streamer yesterday who didn't get a homemarker from a belltower, even after making one and digging it up.

You can't have one set while it rings. You have to delete yours and wait for it to ring again

One Hour One Life Forums

#1 2019-11-26 16:14:28

Bell towers are too OP - mod users can see exact coordinates.

#2 2019-11-26 16:26:25

Re: Bell towers are too OP - mod users can see exact coordinates.

#3 2019-11-26 16:46:02

Re: Bell towers are too OP - mod users can see exact coordinates.

#4 2019-11-26 17:37:22

Re: Bell towers are too OP - mod users can see exact coordinates.

#5 2019-11-26 17:43:06

Re: Bell towers are too OP - mod users can see exact coordinates.

#6 2019-11-26 17:48:02

Re: Bell towers are too OP - mod users can see exact coordinates.

#7 2019-11-26 17:54:23

Re: Bell towers are too OP - mod users can see exact coordinates.

#8 2019-11-26 17:55:41

Re: Bell towers are too OP - mod users can see exact coordinates.

#9 2019-11-26 17:58:19

Re: Bell towers are too OP - mod users can see exact coordinates.

#10 2019-11-26 17:59:21

Re: Bell towers are too OP - mod users can see exact coordinates.

#11 2019-11-26 18:00:35

Re: Bell towers are too OP - mod users can see exact coordinates.

#12 2019-11-26 18:11:27

Re: Bell towers are too OP - mod users can see exact coordinates.

#13 2019-11-26 20:23:48

Re: Bell towers are too OP - mod users can see exact coordinates.

#14 2019-11-26 21:43:17

Re: Bell towers are too OP - mod users can see exact coordinates.

#15 2019-11-26 23:36:19

Re: Bell towers are too OP - mod users can see exact coordinates.

#16 2019-11-27 01:36:54

Re: Bell towers are too OP - mod users can see exact coordinates.

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