Plan for this week's update (2-phase update)

Stormyzabeast · 2019-11-16 21:03:31

Keyin wrote:

So I just played a few lives in the new update and a couple of suggestions outside of bug fixes
1) Make Gingers have temp bonus in arctic, so arctic biome isn't as cold for them.
2) Make Brown immune to yellow fever... I thought they might be so I killed myself with mosquitoes accidentally... lol
3) Make Brown have lower temp in jungle than other skin types
4) Make Black have lower temp in desserts
Or maybe just flat temp bonus to gingers and temp minus to black and brown

You mean we all still have the same temps???? How TF are black people supposed to survive in the jungle with no way to get rabbits asap? And mosquitos??

I hope I'm mistaken because this seems extremely stupid

DestinyCall · 2019-11-16 21:16:35

Stormyzabeast wrote:

I hope I'm mistaken because this seems extremely stupid

It isn't quite that bad. All races are expected to live in grass (in the same city, realistically). The specialties are only used for gathering advanced resources and travelling in a straight line.

PXshadow · 2019-11-16 21:17:49

It's been slightly difficult keeping up with all of the protocol changes to the client. My issue comes from alot of the non server related undocumented things coming such as the need to manually step into a non native biome and things like that. It seems the client will continue to need to become more sophisticated and developers like myself (probably only me currently) follow outside of the protocol.txt specs.

Kinrany · 2019-11-16 22:31:58

Legs wrote:

As a result outsiders are often welcomed with confused smiles instead of being treated with suspicion or hostility like before.

Wholesome! :D

Legs wrote:

Maps are absolutely essential, I'm seeing them mass produced and stockpiled in multiples.

Woah, we finally have libraries for realplay reasons!
Now we need a reason to travel back East and use old libraries, and OHOL will officially become a Doomed City, The Game

Legs · 2019-11-16 22:53:00

cordy wrote:

tattoos:
https://onetech.info/3261-Tattoo-Prepar … -biomeReq6
havent seen people do it yet though....

I wanted to try this so I /died a few times until I was born in a jungle family. Making the dye I ran into a problem: getting salt water for rust. Since the game's buggy right now I was hoping that I could find ice holes spawning outside the arctic. Nope, they're inaccessible even when you're standing outside at the edge of the biome. During a trip around town looking for saltwater lying around I found an old fishing hole. For some reason the biome had turned green but those two ice holes remained accessible.

Finished the dye, found a needle and went looking for a mango tree. After a little searching I finally found one. Made the tattoo preparation, dipped my needle and... nothing. It didn't work. Tried emoting then using it, still nothing. Twenty seconds later the ink faded off my needle and it was all a waste.

The recipe is listed on onetech's front page so I figured that it had been released rather than waiting for monday. Maybe you can only use it on other people and not yourself. Some quadruplets were born after I came back to town and they seemed interested so I told them where to find the resources and to bring a friend. I wonder if they managed to figure it out after I died.

Wait a second, the page on onetech says:

Tattoo Needle

Pickup at Age: 3
Cannot be placed in container
Deadly

Deadly. Is this needle a weapon? I don't get it.

Kinrany wrote:

Woah, we finally have libraries for realplay reasons!

Writing supplies are pretty essential too. I think jason said he's nerfing the rate of language learning to like 10% per generation. Rubber balls aren't toys for babies any more, they're useful erasers.

Last edited by Legs (2019-11-16 22:56:04)

Spoonwood · 2019-11-17 01:16:43

MistressZues wrote:

My family just died out becuase our village ran out of water when our pump broke we had only browns an gingers no blacks to go in the dessert for more sulfer... thanks . This update would of made more sense if the Rift were still around maybe just a bigger rift. a continent isn't infinite and finding a family not related an of a different skin tone then you is extremely rare now but now we have to rely on those other families to live?? I don't get it . Bring back the rift if you don't want this update to wipe families. With no water we could make no pies or bread we could water no bushes or crops, we could make no stew. The only solution to our lack of water was the rubber seal to our pump. All our ponds were dried and no families could enter the dessert. We had an evil tyrant that killed The only person who could enter as a form of griefing.

This probably consists of what Jason wants to happen most of the time. Your opinion? He wants the game to be difficult (said in other places) and he believes that what he calls "problem solving" is what people like about games. That almost everyone on the forums has reacted negatively to this update? He doesn't care, because he believes that he knows better what players want than they do. And I doubt he'll listen to people saying that they don't like this change. He's probably not capable of trusting that people can speak honestly about what they like and don't like. Probably some issue with a lack of empathy on his part.

jcwilk · 2019-11-17 01:43:47

It would be interesting to do a poll but we mostly hear from the people who disagree. There's not much use in making many melodramatic posts about how much one likes the changes, so it ends up seeming like everyone hates it. The compromises he made make sense to me, nuance is lost in this game when no one really gives a shit about what they're doing since it's gone in an hour so heavy handed forcing moves from the game to the players to give them clear issues they need to work around or work through "right now, lest they die" rather than "maybe, if they want more efficiency" seems logical.

It seemed pretty boring to me that I'd pretty much always get born into a city with endgame tier tech already achieved. Like what's the point? It should take many, many generations to get to endgame tech and it shouldn't be always even possible for a given town. Endgame seems like it should be something super rare that's an exciting experience to be born into with ever escalating complexities to maintain things.

Making lots of complex recipes is one way to do this but I think it's great that he's trying to add additional dimensions of challenges to overcome. Linear grind is boring

Spoonwood · 2019-11-17 02:05:14

jcwilk wrote:

It would be interesting to do a poll but we mostly hear from the people who disagree. There's not much use in making many melodramatic posts about how much one likes the changes, so it ends up seeming like everyone hates it.

There's more evidence. Take a look at dev-changes on the OHOL discord. There you can see positive and negative emotes. There's only thumbs up, and 15 of those, for the change that made tearing down stone walls into hungry work. But, there's only 6 thumbs down and 3 knives for settings for biome specialties.

Toxolotl · 2019-11-17 03:13:48

jcwilk wrote:

There's not much use in making many melodramatic posts about how much one likes the changes, so it ends up seeming like everyone hates it

I would be curious to hear your good experiences with this new update. Not conceptually but with real experiences and evidence to back up your point of view.

jcwilk wrote:

no one really gives a shit about what they're doing since it's gone in an hour

Speak for yourself.

jcwilk wrote:

It seemed pretty boring to me that I'd pretty much always get born into a city with endgame tier tech already achieved. Like what's the point? It should take many, many generations to get to endgame tech and it shouldn't be always even possible for a given town.

It does take many generations and hard work from a collaborative community to achieve end game tech. Whats the point? Maintaining the town so it is flourishing and stable for future generations. Towns like this give players the freedom to build radios, planes, and anything they set their mind to. Without that stability society wouldn't advance. Personally i think the tech ceiling is too low. I like to think that one day this current end game tech will be considered mid game tech. Its pretty clear that the last few updates have been an attempt to make progression more difficult. I personally do not find these kind of mechanisms exciting, i find them boring. Imagine you are an olympic athlete and you worked your whole career to hone your skills and talents, but this year everyone is required to wear 50 lb weights in every event. Would you find that to be an interesting and exciting addition?

jcwilk wrote:

Making lots of complex recipes is one way to do this but I think it's great that he's trying to add additional dimensions of challenges to overcome. Linear grind is boring

Slowing down the grind does not make it any less linear. Where on the tech tree are there options to deviate and create alternative structures for society? Sure, now only certain races can collect certain materials but does that disrupt the order in which they are used? No, it only disrupts the ability of their use. Making the game more complex and difficult is a great idea! I'm sure it will help with player retention as well.

I would like to see a poll on this update and tool slots as well, but that is likely never going to happen.

Last edited by Toxolotl (2019-11-17 03:33:17)

jcwilk · 2019-11-17 04:18:38

Toxolotl wrote:

I would be curious to hear your good experiences with this new update. Not conceptually but with real experiences and evidence to back up your point of view.

"good experiences" is totally subjective, but the types of experiences I was missing prior to these changes are ones of struggling to find success. The only struggle was if I intentionally left my family and wandered off by myself or randomly attacked someone for no reason (both examples of non-optimal family behavior that aren't working towards anything positive) or worked on some optimization project that wasn't important enough for me to care about, because all the critical need stuff was generally already accounted for.

And how can you demand experimental validation for a brand new change from a game made by a solo dev? It'll be at least a few days still before the old tech has faded away. The intended effects of the change seem to mostly be big picture, ie, slowing progression down, adding reasons to interact and family-manage to make long term progress... He has to take risks and make compromises to keep making progress, diving into unprovable changes are in that category. He's likely the only one who has access to the evidence you're looking for through the server logs anyways. Anecdotes are not evidence.

Toxolotl wrote:

jcwilk wrote:
no one really gives a shit about what they're doing since it's gone in an hour
Speak for yourself.

I was exaggerating, but my point is that because this game is so much more ephemeral in terms of a player's properties and character it has the challenge of lower-than-usual emotional attachment to things and therefore long term big picture processes being much more challenging to orchestrate by players. So, it makes sense to compensate for that by preventing progression rather early on until the players involved are able to be competent community members across the board, not just good at grinding out recipes by themselves but also achieved unity in some manner with key families.

Toxolotl wrote:

Towns like this give players the freedom to build radios, planes, and anything they set their mind to. Without that stability society wouldn't advance.

Yeah the problem is there was a bit too much freedom, almost like minecraft in creative mode. Risk and danger are fun, constraints inspire creativity to get around them. Having to face strife to maintain that stability rather than, eg, having a really high chance of being born into a place that can't possibly run out of water and just requires a little farming and baking to keep going til end of life, makes lives more interesting and unique.

Toxolotl wrote:

Personally i think the tech ceiling is too low. I like to think that one day this current end game tech will be considered mid game tech.

Agree completely, but for now it is what it is and non-content adjustments have to roll with that.

Toxolotl wrote:

Its pretty clear that the last few updates have been an attempt to make progression more difficult. I personally do not find these kind of mechanisms exciting, i find them boring. Imagine you are an olympic athlete and you worked your whole career to hone your skills and talents, but this year everyone is required to wear 50 lb weights in every event. Would you find that to be an interesting and exciting addition?

Change is hard, and often painful, but to follow your analogy, think of the athletes that love lifting weights and are excited about their favorite type of challenge now being integrated into "the olympic event" (analogy is breaking down a bit lol, trying to avoid the whole different types of olympic events thing since there's just one OHOL...generally speaking) they were tired of just running the whole time, they wanted more complex skills to be involved.

But yeah I agree that the specific features added are by no means exciting. Personally though, I'm happy to trade a little fun to make things more interesting, but that's super subjective of course... Luckily it's not my decision to make so I don't have to bear the outrage haha *popcorn*

Toxolotl wrote:

Slowing down the grind does not make it any less linear. Where on the tech tree are there options to deviate and create alternative structures for society? Sure, now only certain races can collect certain materials but does that disrupt the order in which they are used?

Linear has a kind of slippery definition in this context, but I meant that there's not a single step by step path towards village tech endgame and stability. Previous to this change, sure you could eve into a shitty spot, but once you find a nice big greenlands then it's just a matter of how far you have to run to the nearest resource for each thing. Sure it's not that simple since it's multi-generational and not everyone is going to follow the same plan, so a lot of chaos comes from lack of coordination but with optimal play there's very little chaos.

With these changes now the village family needs to not just find other resources but other families and needs to maintain not just themselves but multiple families or ongoing trade agreements/stealing from other families and there's no clear path to doing that since the resources themselves (other families) are constantly in flux. That's a huge change. The consequences of that change aren't super clear yet (see the beginning of this message) but it at least makes inter-family interactions a very high value thing which has kind of been an elusive, missing quality to OHOL prior.

So yeah, I can't say it's a good change for sure, no one can at this point (although the cons are certainly already apparent) but I'm excited to see where it goes and believe that new positive directions of the game can't likely be found in baby steps, or at least not in a small amount of time. Lean into chaos!

Spoonwood · 2019-11-17 07:21:58

jcwilk wrote:

And how can you demand experimental validation for a brand new change from a game made by a solo dev? It'll be at least a few days still before the old tech has faded away. The intended effects of the change seem to mostly be big picture, ie, slowing progression down, adding reasons to interact and family-manage to make long term progress... He has to take risks and make compromises to keep making progress, diving into unprovable changes are in that category. He's likely the only one who has access to the evidence you're looking for through the server logs anyways. Anecdotes are not evidence.

OHOL hasn't made progress though. The game has gotten worse. Also, the player population has declined significantly in the past year, and since February, there hasn't existed a half-month long uptick in the player population.

jcwilk wrote:

Yeah the problem is there was a bit too much freedom, almost like minecraft in creative mode.

No, that wasn't a problem. The game had the biggest player count when having clothing wasn't as needed by players as it is now, and when the water system made running out of water much less of an issue.

jcwilk wrote:

Risk and danger are fun, constraints inspire creativity to get around them.

More constraints is not popular. And since whether the game is good or not is no more than a collection of subjective experiences, popularity comes as what matters.

jcwilk wrote:

Having to face strife to maintain that stability rather than, eg, having a really high chance of being born into a place that can't possibly run out of water and just requires a little farming and baking to keep going til end of life, makes lives more interesting and unique.

Plenty of people have found that more stressful.

jcwilk wrote:

Agree completely, but for now it is what it is and non-content adjustments have to roll with that.

People are free to disagree if they like.

jcwilk wrote:

Change is hard, and often painful, but to follow your analogy, think of the athletes that love lifting weights and are excited about their favorite type of challenge now being integrated into "the olympic event" (analogy is breaking down a bit lol, trying to avoid the whole different types of olympic events thing since there's just one OHOL...generally speaking) they were tired of just running the whole time, they wanted more complex skills to be involved.

Your analogy could work only if people were clamoring for the sort of changes that Jason put forth. But people were NOT clamoring in such a way, so your analogy fails. In fact, there have existed several comments about how the game doesn't leave time to talk to people, and that it worked better in that respect previously. That's the opposite direction of which Jason has taken the game.

jcwilk wrote:

With these changes now the village family needs to not just find other resources but other families and needs to maintain not just themselves but multiple families or ongoing trade agreements/stealing from other families and there's no clear path to doing that since the resources themselves (other families) are constantly in flux. That's a huge change. The consequences of that change aren't super clear yet (see the beginning of this message) but it at least makes inter-family interactions a very high value thing which has kind of been an elusive, missing quality to OHOL prior.

That's only if the playerbase wants long lasting family lines living in one spot to the extent that they have a willingness to do that. There's no certainty of that. People might just give up on trying to get to diesel water pumps. OR people might conserve water and try to import water from ponds and dug up springs using cisterns (no idea how that fares).

Last edited by Spoonwood (2019-11-17 07:22:33)

jcwilk · 2019-11-17 08:34:12

Spoonwood wrote:

More constraints is not popular. And since whether the game is good or not is no more than a collection of subjective experiences, popularity comes as what matters.

Although I can't speak for him, I'm pretty certain that popularity is not the key metric that jason's optimizing for.

Spoonwood wrote:

jcwilk wrote:
Having to face strife to maintain that stability rather than, eg, having a really high chance of being born into a place that can't possibly run out of water and just requires a little farming and baking to keep going til end of life, makes lives more interesting and unique.
Plenty of people have found that more stressful.

I mean, yeah, OHOL is kind of an intense game with a year passing in a minute. Some amount of stress seems expected, like how multiball in pinball is stressful as hell but also the best part.

Spoonwood wrote:

jcwilk wrote:
Agree completely, but for now it is what it is and non-content adjustments have to roll with that.
People are free to disagree if they like.

I was just saying that the existing content exists presently so it makes sense that the features would be optimized around the current endgame being endgame, it wouldn't make sense to build the system for a bunch of TBD technologies unless he has all the future tech planned out in detail already which would be weird to do without releasing any of it.

Spoonwood wrote:

Your analogy could work only if people were clamoring for the sort of changes that Jason put forth. But people were NOT clamoring in such a way, so your analogy fails. In fact, there have existed several comments about how the game doesn't leave time to talk to people, and that it worked better in that respect previously. That's the opposite direction of which Jason has taken the game.

I was just saying there are different kinds of players, wasn't trying to say whether they were a majority or anything like that. Certainly the worst thing he could do though is delegate all his decisions to the players.

I'm on the fence about how I feel about it so far... It feels awkward, like the pieces don't quite fit together right, but I think it will be more interesting once the prior cities dry up. It feels like a good attempt to learn about possibilities of the game at least. To me, -something- is needed to make families matter more, if this flops then onto the next possibility.

Do you feel that all the game is missing is additional recipes and items? (excluding the new families thing)

Spoonwood · 2019-11-17 09:18:21

jcwilk wrote:

Although I can't speak for him, I'm pretty certain that popularity is not the key metric that jason's optimizing for.

Then he doesn't care about making the greatest game ever and hasn't cared about such. Such means that Jason doesn't have good goals or a good vision, so to speak, in the first place.

jcwilk wrote:

I was just saying that the existing content exists presently so it makes sense that the features would be optimized around the current endgame being endgame, it wouldn't make sense to build the system for a bunch of TBD technologies unless he has all the future tech planned out in detail already which would be weird to do without releasing any of it.

I don't think he is developing the game as some sort of mission about climbing a technology tree.

jcwilk wrote:

I was just saying there are different kinds of players, wasn't trying to say whether they were a majority or anything like that. Certainly the worst thing he could do though is delegate all his decisions to the players.

On the contrary, that would be the best thing he could do, or at least far better than what Jason has done, because then he would have some humility, instead of the arrogant attitude that he currently has. Probably of equal value it would result in more satisfied customers, not angry ones who leave negative reviews, comments, and even a popular mod maker giving up on the game, because of the direction of the game.

Sure, you might disagree with that. But, your 'certainly' here is absurd. There's plenty of advantages that could happen were Jason to delegate his decisions to his players (he won't... he's too arrogant, thinks too much of himself and his work for that, believes he knows people's tastes better than they do, doesn't believe everyone's opinion matters equally in matters of taste, and more). You can think the majority of people stupid all you like, but they know their tastes. They know what they like. And they know what they don't like.

jcwilk wrote:

Do you feel that all the game is missing is additional recipes and items? (excluding the new families thing)

Forgetting about how only gingers can now interact with tarry spots, it has still missed recipes and items all over the place. Electrical power technology doesn't exist. Weather doesn't exist. Good temperature objects don't exist (like a warm spring that people could dip into to have perfect temperature). Good buildings are stupidly limited to a small 6x6 box (and walls take up space). A fully insulating clothing set in a grassland, or even an arctic region, doesn't exist. As DestinyCall has pointed out I think in an extensive post with multiple suggestions on how to change things, tool progression seems limited.

Last edited by Spoonwood (2019-11-17 10:09:24)

One Hour One Life Forums

#26 2019-11-16 21:03:31

Re: Plan for this week's update (2-phase update)

#27 2019-11-16 21:16:35

Re: Plan for this week's update (2-phase update)

#28 2019-11-16 21:17:49

Re: Plan for this week's update (2-phase update)

#29 2019-11-16 22:31:58

Re: Plan for this week's update (2-phase update)

#30 2019-11-16 22:53:00

Re: Plan for this week's update (2-phase update)

#31 2019-11-17 01:16:43

Re: Plan for this week's update (2-phase update)

#32 2019-11-17 01:43:47

Re: Plan for this week's update (2-phase update)

#33 2019-11-17 02:05:14

Re: Plan for this week's update (2-phase update)

#34 2019-11-17 03:13:48

Re: Plan for this week's update (2-phase update)

#35 2019-11-17 04:18:38

Re: Plan for this week's update (2-phase update)

#36 2019-11-17 07:21:58

Re: Plan for this week's update (2-phase update)

#37 2019-11-17 08:34:12

Re: Plan for this week's update (2-phase update)

#38 2019-11-17 09:18:21

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