by the village for the village

Gomez · 2019-11-14 04:01:39

just a thought on resource consumption...if the town needs something i.e. a hoe or w.e. and you go to smith and some guy cranking out pipes or smithing and he doesn't make the hoe...he is not working for the village and should be removed and replaced. just my two cents

tech will never advance if every life you piece meal a job i.e. smith just to make that damn hoe the village needs to eat

Last edited by Gomez (2019-11-14 04:02:50)

fug · 2019-11-14 04:05:17

This is the difference between thinking short term and long term as you absolutely need oil long term as otherwise you run out of water but hoes have skewers/stone hoes/steel hoes to work with.

Your two cents might as well be monopoly money.

Gomez · 2019-11-14 05:10:08

a hoe takes like two seconds to make...if you're burning down forests at least make the woodsman a hoe to replace what you burn. With corn cows and stew you can make duck pond water last a long time.

Also can make another newcomen pump hundred tiles away there is no reason to rush kerosine.

MrShuriken · 2019-11-14 10:53:42

Lmao someone doing oil or advanced water doesn't have time to make some kid a hoe
That's why we make large smithing areas, with 2 blocks between each forge/Newcomen as it gives us space to do multiple things at once.
If you get in the way of someone whos smithing, and they nicely ask you to leave the area so they can continue to create some advanced thing, and you continue to yell at them expect to get stabbed. Don't get in the way of a smith who is being productive

Kaveh · 2019-11-14 11:48:45

If someone is 'cranking out pipes' bet your ass I'm not bothering them for a hoe.

Asking for a hoe doesn't take just 2 seconds, it means turning iron ore into wrought iron and then steel ingots for which more coal is needed too. Yeah, they may currently have a bunch of ingots and you just have to slam em with a hammer, but they probably NEED those ingots! Making a hoe for you means they have to go back a few steps after that and make another ingot for their own project which takes quite a few steps and is really bothersome if you only have to make one.

Anyway, what I'm trying to say is, even if you decide to make the hoe yourself: don't just assume you can take some ingots and turn a few of them into tools if someone is working on advanced tech. Also don't take every iron bar since it might be for the newcomen stuff needed for the oil pump or distilling. They need those things even if they're not currently touching them. If they don't have time to make your stuff, ask if you can use the resources first. Using untouched iron ore is generally fine unless there is very little of it left.

sigmen4020 · 2019-11-14 12:03:29

Also if someone is making advanced tech, it's not certain that they have learned how to use a smithing hammer to save on tool slots if they are making a diesel engine. Making diesel engines doesn't really require you to learn the smithing hammer as a tool (Only thing requiring a smithing hammer in the making of the diesel engine is a can), since you use a rock when refining iron.

Gomez · 2019-11-14 12:27:22

Fair there may be mechanical limitations to a solo smith doing engineer work. I didn't necessarily mean to throw shades on the skilled smiths around OHOL I'm certainly not one of em. Perhaps the example was lacking.

My point was more along the lines of the need of the community should be served by those using community property and facilities.

Thus if a guy needs a item crafted for all intents and purposes necessary to the function of the village those with the capacity to fulfill that requirement should do so, else the village should take some action to administer justice.

TBH I often find it difficult to obtain even the most basic of help action to obtain higher tech...usually a piece of a cart har.

Last edited by Gomez (2019-11-14 12:30:41)

pein · 2019-11-14 13:23:12

engine and smithing not the same
if you wat a chance to make engine you don't chop trees and don't even use normal hammer
hoes are a luxury, we are back to the boundless world, you can always go around 3-400 tiles to get new water, soil, ropes, use them instead
if someone dedicates his life to engine making you should rather help than asking him more stuff

MrsDuckGirl · 2019-11-14 13:53:28

MrShuriken wrote:

Lmao someone doing oil or advanced water doesn't have time to make some kid a hoe

If you're making rods, you have time to smith some hoes with the remaining of your firing forges, assuming you have enough ingots.

But people asking for tools, please, bring KINDLINGS to the smithy. Or at least branches.

DestinyCall · 2019-11-14 17:11:40

Gomez wrote:

My point was more along the lines of the need of the community should be served by those using community property and facilities.

And our point is that the needs of the community reach beyond the obvious. When someone ignores your request, consider the possibility that they are too busy to help you right now or that you failed to explain your needs clearly. For example, when somebody asks me to make them a knife without providing a good story, I will just roll my eyes and keep working.

Gomez wrote:

Thus if a guy needs a item crafted for all intents and purposes necessary to the function of the village those with the capacity to fulfill that requirement should do so, else the village should take some action to administer justice.

By "justice" do you actually mean "murder"? Because that is really dumb.

If you need someone else to help the village because they possess skills that are critical to village survival, what sense does it make to kill them for not obeying your demands? That doesn't help the village. It just soothes your damaged pride.

If you need a hoe and the smith is busy, go find a skewer or milkweed/rope and make a stone hoe. If you need something else, like shears or shovel, go gather more iron/kindling and TRADE for your tool. If the smith still ignores your pleas, take the iron you gathered and either make the tool yourself or find a child to make it. The village will need a new smith eventually and there is nothing stopping you from building a second kiln for pottery/tool making if the main forge is being used for engineering.

Working together is best for the village. Dispensing "justice" is not the answer. Finding a solution that allows the village to grow and become stronger is always better than kicking up unnecessary drama by stabbing a busy smith in the center of town.

pein · 2019-11-14 18:59:46

he thinks he is too important
that's why we see so many eve gomez
and that's why he steals my horse cart and hoes we made, and water, cause "ree you took iron from other city"

Saolin · 2019-11-14 19:28:27

Just be a reasonable person and think about others in general. Ask the Smith when they're not right in the middle of time-sensitive activity. The Smith will usually make the hoe if you ask, but if they're too busy making something important for the town, just accept it and use skewer/stone hoe. They're perfectly usable alternatives even if they are less than ideal. Stabbing the one person making engine is completely idiotic, and will just result in you getting stabbed in retaliation and probably multiple curses too.

If I need a tool and someone is already smithing I'll just mention it to them, walk away and come back in a bit to see if it's there. If I don't see it and they're still smithing I'll wait until they finish with anything time-sensitive and then politely ask again and generally you're going to get a response if you do this without being rude. Sometimes they even already made it and either someone else is already using it or its on the ground and I didn't see it yet. Sometimes they might still be working on it, or there's not enough iron. You can't use a skewer in place of iron for an engine/oil. Don't be selfish. Think of others and what is most important for a town to prioritize. You could always just do something else until the smithy is available to use and then make it yourself too.

Gomez · 2019-11-14 20:31:01

Don't get caught up in the analogy of the smith and the hoe this isn't about the smith specifically or beef with them in regards to not getting a hoe lmao.

Murder is unlawful by justice I mean action taken by village to restore function killing is included in that however it is not murder if done lawful.

murder is specifically the UNLAWFUL ending of a life....prisoners sentenced to death are not murdered they are executed. So yes killing can be an extreme justice action. It could be hey we want a new smith....then guy gets but hurt starts agroing or won't step down when asked so yeah then you kill em.

seriously tho the smith story was just meant as a parable obviously there are etiquette and manners involved when getting the smith to make you a hoe.

the major point was the village can take action against an unhelpful professional i.e. a smith indifferent to the needs of a village and continues making his car or some other non essential while essentials are needed.

tbh a good smith makes back up tools in baskets and keeps em stocked so that trumps all arguments in regards to the analogy.

Last edited by Gomez (2019-11-14 20:37:50)

Spoonwood · 2019-11-14 20:43:33

A town may use a steel hoe, ok.

But, as soon as the newcomen engine gets lite, you do NOT make a steel hoe first. The time of the engine is short, so rods need to get made first. A steel hoe may get made after that before the kiln goes out or on the next fire.

Gomez · 2019-11-14 21:37:59

fair the argument isn't about the damn hoe forget the hoe. loool anywho this is nuanced subject more brain storming than actual well thought out post i got some good feedback tho thank you to those that replied.

some good points raised be it off topic about restricting hoe access to slow farming and reduce water consumption during newcomen stage it's a valid ponit tbh....I prefer to fill cisterns and get way ahead on the water running the newcomen pump constantly and roaring at smith's moar coal, lol.

I erred in making complex post I think more basic info be more useful. i.e. profession write ups.

Last edited by Gomez (2019-11-14 21:43:22)

DestinyCall · 2019-11-14 22:21:43

Gomez wrote:

Seriously tho the smith story was just meant as a parable obviously there are etiquette and manners involved when getting the smith to make you a hoe.

Then you selected a poor analogy to illustrate your arguement. If you can't find a decent example that supports your position, don't use a bad example and then complain when people call your arguement weak.

Gomez wrote:

The major point was the village can take action against an unhelpful professional i.e. a smith indifferent to the needs of a village and continues making his car or some other non essential while essentials are needed.

This example is getting a little closer to what you want, but still lacks credibility. Have you ever build a car? Have you ever seen someone building a car? I'm guessing "no", because cars are pointless.

But more to the point, the only difference between a smith building a car and a smith building a water pump or mining pick is what he decides to do with the engine. So unless you have reason to believe he is going to use the diesel engine for something stupid, there is no reason to disturb him while he is working. And even if he IS planning to make a car, it is better to let him finish the engine ... then claim it for the town. If the town already has a diesel water pump and mining pick and plenty of iron/oil ... let the poor guy have his car/plane. He built it himself. Don't be a dick. Leave him alone.

Gomez wrote:

tbh a good smith makes back up tools in baskets and keeps em stocked so that trumps all arguments in regards to the analogy.

No ... a good smith uses the town's limited iron to best advantage. In times of plenty, that might mean producing extra toolheads so there are backups for all major tools, but that is definitely a luxury, not a neccessity. If you only have enough iron to build the parts for oil rig, you do that first. You don't smith four extra shovel heads and then hope the next generation remembers to make steel pipes before water runs out completely.

I agree with your general idea. That you should always do your best to help the village and discourage others from wasteful pursuits. But I get the impression you think you know more about what the village needs than you actually do. If you have not dabbled in oil tech yet, it is quite easy to under-estimate the iron and water costs associated with getting a diesel water pump to a functional state. Likewise, if you are only interested in farming, you might miss out on the importance of providing clothes or making compost or building roads. There are many important jobs in a village. Your job might be really important to you, but that doesn't make it more vital than your neighbor's occupation.

Please be respectful of hard workers. They are more important to village survival than getting "justice" for a percieved slight or teaching someone a "lesson" for doing something in a sub-optimal fashion. Unless they are actively working against the village, education is more valuable than justice. Explain how it should be done and hear why they are doing it differently. You might BOTH learn something new.

Gomez · 2019-11-15 08:19:34

this post is not about smithing its about justice actions and property items contained in the city limits belong to the village not the person.

the person doing the smithing or w.e. is its guardian if the guardian is corrupt remove them.

nit picking the analogy does little to further the discussion..next pls

tbh the smith has every right to deny a request per his judgement and he controls the smith and his judgement calls on justice should be backed by the guard if there is communication between the two....

the lowest form of justice action would be observation and the most severe would be capitol punishment. there is spectrum of justice.

and before you say observation of a counter-survival action isn't a justice action...do you slow down when a cop is driving behind you? i bet you do. observation and presence are big part of maintaining order and function within the city.

We can build the cities but can we maintain them? Short answer not without guards, not without justice and certainly not without communication...period.

Last edited by Gomez (2019-11-15 08:36:11)

Gomez · 2019-11-15 11:44:13

The justice scale I use is acknowledgment of wrong doing, apology, small task e.g. (fill one or beri bowl, fetch basket of carrot or mutton), surrendering of weapons, exile, execution, and lastly curse...tbh tho exile is terrible because it just creates a raider.

Could toss in confinement in there however thats not my style, smith could run jail? lulz

Last edited by Gomez (2019-11-15 11:48:10)

One Hour One Life Forums

#1 2019-11-14 04:01:39

by the village for the village

#2 2019-11-14 04:05:17

Re: by the village for the village

#3 2019-11-14 05:10:08

Re: by the village for the village

#4 2019-11-14 10:53:42

Re: by the village for the village

#5 2019-11-14 11:48:45

Re: by the village for the village

#6 2019-11-14 12:03:29

Re: by the village for the village

#7 2019-11-14 12:27:22

Re: by the village for the village

#8 2019-11-14 13:23:12

Re: by the village for the village

#9 2019-11-14 13:53:28

Re: by the village for the village

#10 2019-11-14 17:11:40

Re: by the village for the village

#11 2019-11-14 18:59:46

Re: by the village for the village

#12 2019-11-14 19:28:27

Re: by the village for the village

#13 2019-11-14 20:31:01

Re: by the village for the village

#14 2019-11-14 20:43:33

Re: by the village for the village

#15 2019-11-14 21:37:59

Re: by the village for the village

#16 2019-11-14 22:21:43

Re: by the village for the village

#17 2019-11-15 08:19:34

Re: by the village for the village

#18 2019-11-15 11:44:13

Re: by the village for the village

Board footer