War/Peace declaration

Kaveh · 2019-10-27 22:54:18

Alright so I know a lot of people might have different opinions on this one, but I just wanted to share mine! Maybe someone agrees or has similar ideas?

It's been a while since I've seen families in a state of war. Not sure if I'm the only one, but the last time I've seen it (for longer than just having two elders fool around for a second and changing back to peace immediately) was just after war/peace became a thing.

I know a lot of people didn't quite like war, but I thought it was super interesting. It really made me want to spawn in the same family again, because heck that other family of brutal murderers amirite? I was just rooting for one family to 'win' the arc over another, to be part of the group of people that made it to the end. This all gave the game a new dimension for me (FAMILY meaning so much more than before) and I'm kinda sad that disappeared again. For example: the town I was born in this afternoon had a road to an oil well, which also had a road connected to ANOTHER family's town. Later today, when I played again, the two families had moved in together. All fine of course, but what's the importance of family relations then?

So this got me to think: why isn't there any war anymore? Especially now it seems we'll be competing for resources, oil in particular (and ain't that THE war-starter nowadays?). This kinda made me realise that the way to start wars is a little weird. I understand elders coming together to declare PEACE, but shouldn't one family be able to go to war on an 'invading' family without them agreeing to this?
'We don't want you here stealing our resources, leave'
'No'
'Well then this means war'
'Nah you can't do that cuz we gotta say war too haha'

I know killing with knives/bows is an option in this situation, but I felt that's kinda besides the point. IMO, war shouldn't have to be a two-sided, previously agreed-upon thing. However, we also don't want small groups of people pillaging other places and calling it war. My solution would be still leaving it up to the elders, but without needing the OTHER family present. Just say 50% of the elders need to agree, or maybe a minimum of 5 elders, whatever. They just all say 'We declare war on [familyname]' within the same minute (so it has to be some type of council meeting, so to speak). Then the youngsters can go and protect their home (if they're willing to fight for their family, of course).

Thoughts?

pein · 2019-10-27 23:12:08

war is stupid cause fight system is stupid

also, it's not really a fight it's just ambushing on newbies who stand in place
and the way you cant dodge, made duels inexistent, so what you wish for is even worse, that we shouldn't even know about it?
peace and standard neutral made things a bit better

I don't mind, you could make 2 cities and make blue and red clothes and war all day but killing innocent people is a dick move

Kaveh · 2019-10-27 23:22:41

I personally would want the other family to know (i.e. they get a message when the situation changes), so ambushes shouldn't be too easy.
Somewhat agree on that the fight system is stupid (no way to defend yourself besides attacking/running away), but maybe people will care more about keeping the fences/walls intact and closing the gates again?

Again, I understand not everyone likes war (especially raids), but I see it as a good way to compete for resources. The other family can go find their own oil well.
It's just a bit silly to me that when there's 2 families left they often seem to be at peace and live in the same town or near each other, so it's not like one will die out before the other because of a lack of resources (but just because one person decided to kill all the women in the other family or somethin). I'd like to prevent that situation from the start, I suppose, so families live more independently and you get more of a bond with the family (as opposed to just with the town, which is the case for me now). Trading goods is cool, living together, meh.

Gogo · 2019-10-27 23:51:30

Great idea! I love wars. My most emotional and fun gameplay was when we invaded another town. But other side should get notification that war has started. And if someone want to make an ambush - just send soldiers before declaring war and they will wait for notifications, like (seen only by their side) - 1/3 elders declared war.

Another thing is gates. Shouldn't both families get access to their gates when they declare peace (other family will count as your own)?

And automatically lose it when the war started? Imagine the desperation to get the hell outta town before someone close the gate.

Last edited by Gogo (2019-10-28 00:01:34)

pein · 2019-10-28 00:00:48

same dumb

today someone stole the engine I prepared for the camp and all the tools
while they had duplicates back home, wasn't even a bad camp, wasn't yet viable, but clearly shown that people working on it

while they don't do shit with those tools, we needed them, also they stole buckets twice which is a dick move when you see the camp has water in a deep well

basically we got a few players making engines, oil and transporting for everyone
the rest doesn't care

but they are butthurt about things like "oh they took our iron"
if an engine is placed on a mine, it should stay there, you can get as much iron you want, but if you take that engine to make a well, and sits there without kerosene, that's just dumb and selfish thinking

same for draw plates, once you got loom you should move it town to town or make a loom and pack it up and gift away

same for stealing boards from a city, like seriously? just make your own boards, easier to transport and doesn't hurt you
you can spawn any town and you limit your own possibilities when you ruin a camp.

there is no competition for resources, you cant handle all players at the same place and you end the arc if you kill them.

There is no trading without private ownership, a target resource to spend on, an AI market, a currency.
There are no points for killing others.

I could imagine some arena fights where the rules are different, like a fort fight on special map and special rules, but the current way of duels is dumb, 99% advantage for the attacker.
So you want wars?
Make 2 wells on like 120 distance, connect fast roads
make a fence as a war zone
Inside that use red and blue clothes
Maybe if you are a male, just do all the weirdo jobs like adze and cut kindling, and knitting needle and such then all males can go to the war zone and kill each other and continue that all you want.

All I see is people who just loo for dumb excuses like they do nothing and when someone takes resources they made previous life or to help out other towns they go butthurt over it. There are a lot of newbies nowadays, shouldn't ruin the game for them for your dumb lullz.

Gogo · 2019-10-28 00:10:51

OHOL is trying to represent life as much as possible, war is natural state from time to time.

Last edited by Gogo (2019-10-28 00:11:04)

fug · 2019-10-28 00:22:45

War essentially just really bad roleplaying. The only value it potentially has is ending an arc and that still requires two parties to agree that the arc needs to end and what not. You're better off just sharing resources as we've never even gotten close to running out of anything ever so far except something like the griefed arcs.

It's why you see Eves move in together at the start of the arc instead of every player making their own little town (that and all the wells get made instantly after an arc starts generally.) It's also not very interesting to deal with "raiders" since how combat changed to benefit the person who shift clicks first. Back in the day one good guy with a knife was enough to take any asshats out and now its just a matter who sends in the kill command first.

Combat is terrible, there's no reason to steal from each other, and there's not even a reason to be an independent family. It's better for everyone to just group up and make multicultural towns as it generally means if one family gets dumb girls or has an accident the place will go on.

It's plain shortsighted to want war, and frankly dumb of anyone who wants it hence why I always curse warmongers. Better to keep the fools out running around elsewhere rather than making a mess of a town people are being productive in.

miskas · 2019-10-28 00:50:01

Wars had a purpose, more women and more food for your family.
In Ohol you don't get more women and neither you have 1 family.
Also killing other families is harming the longevity of your families, arc ends.

Last edited by miskas (2019-10-28 08:59:05)

Keyin · 2019-10-28 01:13:40

Yeah, cursing being really strong is another reason people don't start wars. If you want to war you look really bad to most players and they will curse you for being warmonger. Really easy since curse timer is only 30 mins and even the family you want to take from can curse you, since after a few days everyone pretty much understands each other.

Also I have noticed people get cursed by someone who doesn't speak our families language, yet the text turns purple confirming the curse was used. Idk there might be a bug allowing cross-family cursing.

Also combat is really weird now. I tried to sacrifice a baby to nosaj but because of murder mouth and 1/2 speed the new newborn was too fast to kill.

Combat/cursing features have shifted to defenders favor too heavily in my opinion. There isn't really a reason to go to war as stealing is quite easy, just ride in with horse cart and take what you want

fug · 2019-10-28 01:43:17

Cursing across lineages is allowed again because otherwise people just grief constantly as Eve. If you need proof then you can search Eve Kill or Eve Ziv who constantly grief as Eves any chance they get. It's 100% a different game early when you're trying to play properly working to get a functioning village and someone is just going around the map to kill everyone.

You can't fight back like in the old pvp system as if anyone with a bow gets on within range to shoot you its not possible to make gap at 75% speed. Of course this means griefing is just people jumping on horses and stealing shit vs random stabbing when it becomes later into the arc.

The curse system overall now functions more as a "I don't want you near me" mechanic and if you're pissing off enough people that your banned radius is putting you in DT that's on you. Warmongers in general aren't worth having around at all so it's better to just curse them as I stated before. You have no reason to want war besides "muh arr-pee" and you know how people feel about useless roleplayers.

schmloo · 2019-10-28 01:52:47

War is stupid because there’s no way of making and enforcing a stable governing body, and even knowing of it’s presence and effect. Without the “official” leaders of the town being present, people who declare war are just a minority acting independently from the rest of the town.

And no, “Kings” and “Queens” don’t count because any entire scenario is just:
“I am King/Queen, obey me”
“Yeah sure ok lmao”, *carries on as if nothing has changed*

Keyin · 2019-10-28 03:37:14

Yeah, we live in a mob rule now where if you don't follow the cultural norms you get cursed by everyone in the mob and go to donkey town.

As far as I know, I had only been cursed by two people. One woman who had starved my baby and I stabbed that I couldn't understand (didn't know her language, her curse turned purple anyway though) and another who I got in a 'no u' fight with.

Because everyone lives so clustered together, I got born into donkey town despite not really griefing/trolling.

Also, theft isn't really griefing since you're taking from another family to benefit your own. Doing things that make no logical sense like randomly stabbing family members I would consider griefing.

If you're someone who enjoys conflict there is really no place for it in the game, as the only need we have is short term: food and long term: oil. Neither of these resources are well guarded and thus do not require conflict to get. Using conflict to get these is thus percieved as griefing because it is unnecessary.

and to address the whole 'eve grief' thing, you should be making a bow and arrow to get sheep early on anyway. So if you aren't able to counter one person coming in and shooting someone then walking slowly away, it is kind of on you/your family.

Honestly I think you should need to be 3rd cousin or closer to curse, because in-character I should not have to worry about not harming unrelated people. If my close relatives don't agree with my poor treatment of unrelated people they would still be free to curse me.

Anyway, later on in the arc even a group of 2-4 can be weak against a small town because there will usually be a bunch of wool pads and thread around.

I also agree there really should be some sort of in-built supplement to help establish a hierarchy/governing body. Time passes too quickly to negotiate roles/leadership/laws by chat alone.

Also, it feels weird that some old 7th cousin in another town whom I never met can decide I am at war now.

People basically still go to war the way they did before it was a thing, with no regard to peace/war status, but they just use knife/bow.

But does no one else agree that two curses in one lifetime with exponentially increasing curse radius with no regard to how related you are is a bit much? Some trolls will even birth you in the middle of no where and curse you for no reason.(happened to me 4+ times)
Just one misunderstanding can get you cursed by 3-4 people, which can quite possibly get you banned from the whole map (as I have experienced first hand with only 2 curses I am aware of)

Kaveh · 2019-10-28 10:39:56

A few things

First let me state that I liked war even though I've never personally gone on raids! I don't want to go around killing people, I just liked what it did w/ my feelings of closeness to the family across several lives. The thing is that that won't happen if there is no 'enemy' (can't have US if there is no OTHERS). I'm not looking for constant raids and warmongering, merely for a game mechanic that makes you feel closer to your family over time. As I see it, war would just mean people end up living in their own corners of the rift, make peace, and eventually one will die out because of a lack of resources (perhaps waging war again at that point to help their family survive over the other one).

pein wrote:

(...)there is no competition for resources(...)

&

fug wrote:

You're better off just sharing resources as we've never even gotten close to running out of anything ever so far except something like the griefed arcs.

As far as I can tell, Jason is trying pretty hard to change that. Even if we haven't gotten close to it, depletion of resources is what 'should' end an arc. Thing is, if multiple families share the same resources, that means they'd both shrink in size when running out of resources instead of one dying before the other. This would just result in a babypocalypse instead of one family growing a lot bigger than the other.

fug wrote:

(...) besides "muh arr-pee" and you know how people feel about useless roleplayers.

Tbh I don't think everybody agrees on that one. Yes, there are people who think RP is useless, but in that case, so are making a loom for nicer clothes, gardens, buildings and anything else that doesn't have to do with water or yum. But yeah, it seems most people on _this forum_ agree with you that RP shouldn't exist for whatever reason (which is why I personally post a lot), but I assure you there's enough people who DO enjoy it and don't see it as useless at all. I know how to build a diesel engine, but I also enjoy building a loving family or starting some type of 'art' project in the game (... because it's more lasting than the family relations, as it stands). Each to their own, but don't go around killing people because they're being "useless" and a "waste of resources". IMO, the killer is the griefer in that case, but that probably depends on your perspective.

shmloo wrote:

*carries on as if nothing has changed*

That's your decision, not everyone's. I tend to go with the flow and respect this person as the king from that moment. If other people don't join in, that's fine, but in a lot of cases there'll be more people than just the king himself joining in on the RP (sometimes even establishing traditions of inheritance and a crowning ceremony).

shmloo wrote:

Without the “official” leaders of the town being present, people who declare war are just a minority acting independently from the rest of the town.

Which is exactly why I'd want a council type situation. One person wouldn't be able to start a war, nor do you need just one from either family. PLUS, the council can't themselves go to war, as they're elders, but will have to decide together with younger 'fighters'. I think having these decisions made with a larger group means they'd have to communicate about it first, which makes it more of a town decision. Perhaps there could even be a voting system put into place.

Keyin wrote:

Also, theft isn't really griefing since you're taking from another family to benefit your own.

Big agree.

Keyin wrote:

Neither of these resources are well guarded and thus do not require conflict to get. Using conflict to get these is thus percieved as griefing because it is unnecessary.

This is exactly what I'd like to see different. If your family matters more than another, perhaps you'd do your best to protect your oil well a bit more.

Keyin wrote:

People basically still go to war the way they did before it was a thing, with no regard to peace/war status, but they just use knife/bow.

This! I'd like war to be more than just a tool for annoying other families.

As it stands, war exists but has no added value because it isn't being used properly. IMO, using it in a decent way / to protect resources & your family (doesn't even have to involve violence, just the POSSIBILITY of violence did the trick for me mentally) would be a great addition to the game - granted that it would need us to struggle for resources, but as I understand, that's the eventual goal.

One Hour One Life Forums

#1 2019-10-27 22:54:18

War/Peace declaration

#2 2019-10-27 23:12:08

Re: War/Peace declaration

#3 2019-10-27 23:22:41

Re: War/Peace declaration

#4 2019-10-27 23:51:30

Re: War/Peace declaration

#5 2019-10-28 00:00:48

Re: War/Peace declaration

#6 2019-10-28 00:10:51

Re: War/Peace declaration

#7 2019-10-28 00:22:45

Re: War/Peace declaration

#8 2019-10-28 00:50:01

Re: War/Peace declaration

#9 2019-10-28 01:13:40

Re: War/Peace declaration

#10 2019-10-28 01:43:17

Re: War/Peace declaration

#11 2019-10-28 01:52:47

Re: War/Peace declaration

#12 2019-10-28 03:37:14

Re: War/Peace declaration

#13 2019-10-28 10:39:56

Re: War/Peace declaration

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