What is the difference from cheats?

phyduck · 2019-10-24 08:44:19

It seems strange that those who use MOD and those who don't use MOD play in the same arc.

Does Jason feel nothing?

Because there are so many individual differences, this game can no longer be enjoyed.

JackTreehorn · 2019-10-24 08:53:32

I once saw a lady standing in the fire picking up buckets from over ten tiles away. Later I noticed some of the buckets were full of saltwater I would need to empty. I questioned her about it only to be ignored while she chatted to the mothers nearby. I have not seen it since but I have heard reports of this behaviour from others.

The magic lady - https://onehouronelife.com/forums/viewtopic.php?id=7838

Last edited by JackTreehorn (2019-10-24 09:00:08)

Whatever · 2019-10-24 09:04:10

phyduck wrote:

It seems strange that those who use MOD and those who don't use MOD play in the same arc.

I like this idea !
There should be a server with only mod users and another one with only vanilla users.
Mod users are often times the most productive members in a family, they know a lot about the game and work very efficient / produce a lot of stuff, i would love to play on the mod only server.

JackTreehorn · 2019-10-24 09:18:34

The player base is too small to split up. Zoom-mod is not an issue as it doesn't overly impact another players experience. Some mods however are detrimental i.e the 666 bots and worse would be a bot which doesn't tell you they are one, Wasting food and the mothers fertility.

Last edited by JackTreehorn (2019-10-24 09:21:33)

sigmen4020 · 2019-10-24 09:34:19

JackTreehorn wrote:

The player base is too small to split up. Zoom-mod is not an issue as it doesn't overly impact another players experience. Some mods however are detrimental i.e the 666 bots and worse would be a bot which doesn't tell you they are one, Wasting food and the mothers fertility.

What are these 666 bots if you don't mind me asking?

JackTreehorn · 2019-10-24 09:39:30

The 666 bots happened long ago. Someone ran many bots which spawned babies that would say 666, showing they are evil. That was the only function. It was very frustrating to have to explain to new mothers that they should just abandon their kid. Sometimes mothers would have three 666 babies at a time.

Search 666 bots in the forum search bar to read the stories.

Last edited by JackTreehorn (2019-10-24 10:08:36)

phyduck · 2019-10-24 09:40:55

Whatever wrote:

phyduck wrote:
It seems strange that those who use MOD and those who don't use MOD play in the same arc.
I like this idea !
There should be a server with only mod users and another one with only vanilla users.
Mod users are often times the most productive members in a family, they know a lot about the game and work very efficient / produce a lot of stuff, i would love to play on the mod only server.

That way is good.

phyduck · 2019-10-24 09:54:38

JackTreehorn wrote:

The player base is too small to split up. Zoom-mod is not an issue as it doesn't overly impact another players experience. Some mods however are detrimental i.e the 666 bots and worse would be a bot which doesn't tell you they are one, Wasting food and the mothers fertility.

I really hope Jason will implement zoom.
Then everyone will enjoy vanilla more.

Saolin · 2019-10-24 14:54:17

I stubbornly stuck to no mod up until last night, but eventually I got too frustrated about not being able to find things I was looking for and wasting a lot of time because of it.

After playing a little bit with the zoom mod last night, it almost seems like 1.5x zoom was intended to be the default, as it has the best graphics resolution.

miskas · 2019-10-24 15:06:32

1.5x and 2x zoom is my preferred choice too. you see far enough to search and detailed enough to work.
15 * 9 tiles

But of course, I can change it sometimes if I need it for faraway trips.

Last edited by miskas (2019-10-24 15:07:48)

jasonrohrer · 2019-10-24 15:29:05

There's a little problem, first proposed by Turing in the 1930s....

A piece of computer code cannot tell what its actually running on. This is why DRM is a hopeless folly.

Corollary: a piece of computer code on one end of a wire can not be certain about the nature of the computer code on the other end of the wire. It's possible to do a lot of things. You can guarantee that no one else can read a message. You can verify identity as far as ensuring that the remote party has access to some secret. But you can't get proof about what software the remote party is running. Bits on the wire are bits on the wire.

I.e., it is impossible for the server to block modded clients.

Now, it is possible for the server to send less information to all clients, so that modded clients have less "special" stuff to show. There would be a performance and quality cost to doing this, though, and the improvement would be minor. I.e., even if we sent you less of the map in one go, your client could still "remember" the parts of the off-screen map that it already has seen and show those to you.

One last avenue for improvement here is to send less information about other off-screen players to all clients. There's no performance or quality hit if I do this, and it would eliminate the offscreen-spying advantage for modded clients. They'd still have a more comprehensive view of the map, though...

Dodge · 2019-10-24 15:39:27

jasonrohrer wrote:

...

Cant you add some encryption to the client and only the server knows the key and would use it on the client, so a modded client couldn't access the server since the key wouldn't work on it?

Or simply the server could check the files/code of the client to see if it has been modified and if yes deny access to the server?

Should be pretty easy for the server to check if the client is an exact copy of what it should be.

Not saying you should necessarly do it, but curious if it could be done this way?

Whatever · 2019-10-24 15:56:56

@jason you could make a server that the vanilla client cant join and mod authors could make it so mods cant join bigserver2.
Ofcourse mod authors would need to agree to this and people could still change the mod, but i think it would greatly reduce the mod users on bigserver2

@dodge no

wondible · 2019-10-24 17:21:31

Dodge wrote:

Or simply the server could check the files/code of the client to see if it has been modified and if yes deny access to the server?

Since the client is the one answering the questions, it can choose to lie. E.g. keep a copy of the vanilla client and use that to answer the questions.

While it will always be possible to lie, the vanilla client and server could make this process arbitrarily hard, perhaps to the point that no mod authors would be willing to reverse engineer it. AKA DRM. A proportionally large amount of Jason's time would be required to escalate the arms race, and he has made it clear that he doesn't want to waste anyone's time (esp his own) doing that.

Given the NEEDS CONTENT notes that appear from time to time, I'm guessing not many people would want him spending time on that either.

phyduck · 2019-10-24 18:10:44

Supplement：

I think zoom is the main purpose people use MOD.
Some people don't need a mod if they can do it with vanilla.
(For example, switch between narrow and wide)
On the other hand, some people may only want to play with people who have more convenient mods.

I hope it can be separated by arc. But that is a difficult impression.

What Jason wants to observe is the behavior of a vanilla player?

Or is it the result of using a complex and useful mod?

I do not understand English, so I used translation.
I hope the intent is conveyed.
And I don't understand English, but enjoy this game.

Thank you for reading.

Jwillc · 2019-10-24 18:43:55

JackTreehorn wrote:

I once saw a lady standing in the fire picking up buckets from over ten tiles away. Later I noticed some of the buckets were full of saltwater I would need to empty. I questioned her about it only to be ignored while she chatted to the mothers nearby. I have not seen it since but I have heard reports of this behaviour from others.
The magic lady - https://onehouronelife.com/forums/viewtopic.php?id=7838

I saw this on the last arc reset. She was an Eve picking up babies and then seemingly making them disappear because she placing them so far away. Then they'd reappear in her arms. It was pretty sick tbh, she could potentially do everything in the game while standing in one spot by the fire.

jasonrohrer · 2019-10-24 19:08:25

Well, that sounds like some kind of bug. The server won't let you carry out an action unless you're adjacent to the target tile, but maybe some kind of exploit is possible.

Regarding zoom-out, have you seen the modded client and how ugly that looks?

The server is only sending you a 32x30 map chunk, which is barely enough for the 10x7 view in the vanilla client.

Thus, the modded client is showing "map unknown" off the edges all the time, and the map blinks into existence out there.

Supporting zoom officially would require sending even bigger map chunks to the client, which would result in even more processing load on the server, resulting in fewer max players per server. Yeah, fog of war, etc. is possible.... but there's another reason:

The "shimmer" effect on sharp lines when zoomed out. I didn't spend time making sharp, hand-drawn, scanned artwork to have it look like a shimmery mess in the official client.

This game is not supposed to feel or look like an RTS.

It's supposed to be a game about complex social interaction.

Saolin · 2019-10-24 19:43:04

jasonrohrer wrote:

Regarding zoom-out, have you seen the modded client and how ugly that looks?
The server is only sending you a 32x30 map chunk, which is barely enough for the 10x7 view in the vanilla client.
Thus, the modded client is showing "map unknown" off the edges all the time, and the map blinks into existence out there.
Supporting zoom officially would require sending even bigger map chunks to the client, which would result in even more processing load on the server, resulting in fewer max players per server. Yeah, fog of war, etc. is possible.... but there's another reason:

The "shimmer" effect on sharp lines when zoomed out. I didn't spend time making sharp, hand-drawn, scanned artwork to have it look like a shimmery mess in the official client.
This game is not supposed to feel or look like an RTS.
It's supposed to be a game about complex social interaction.

Its enough to operate on 1.5x and maybe even 2x zoom consistently without seeing the squiggly lines at the edges. Beyond that, yeah it gets pretty ugly but could still be useful. What I noticed from trying the mod last night, and maybe it's just on my end, but the image resolution is actually sharpest at 1.5x zoom and at 1x it looks distorted and zoomed in by comparison. It actually had me wondering if 1.5x was your initial plan but went with the current 1x for performance reasons. Though since the program is sending the extra information anyway, maybe it has nothing to do with performance. I think that a larger field of view helps with social situations because you can be more aware of happenings around you.

The only reason I downloaded the mod is for zoom. If even just 1.5x was a standard option I probably wouldn't have felt the need.

jasonrohrer · 2019-10-24 19:51:06

Now, it also depends on the monitor.

The game is native at 1280x720

If your monitor is bigger than this, the image is upscaled. This results in some blurring (bi-linear interpolation on the gpu) but no aliasing (shimmering artifacts). Four years ago, I had to pick between the two, and I decided that blurring was way better than shimmering.

SO.... on your monitor, if you're running at 1920x1080, that's exactly 1.5x 1280x720. At 1.0x zoom, there will be some interpolation, but if you zoom out to 1.5x zoom, you will see "pixel perfect" graphics with no blurring and no shimmering.

So, if I wanted pixel-perfect graphics everywhere, I could have varied the view scale depending on the monitor. However, on 4K, this would have made everything very tiny, and the fonts hard to read. And I really didn't want different people having different views of the world anyway.

Saolin · 2019-10-24 19:55:15

jasonrohrer wrote:

Now, it also depends on the monitor.
The game is native at 1280x720
If your monitor is bigger than this, the image is upscaled. This results in some blurring (bi-linear interpolation on the gpu) but no aliasing (shimmering artifacts). Four years ago, I had to pick between the two, and I decided that blurring was way better than shimmering.
SO.... on your monitor, if you're running at 1920x1080, that's exactly 1.5x 1280x720. At 1.0x zoom, there will be some interpolation, but if you zoom out to 1.5x zoom, you will see "pixel perfect" graphics with no blurring and no shimmering.
So, if I wanted pixel-perfect graphics everywhere, I could have varied the view scale depending on the monitor. However, on 4K, this would have made everything very tiny, and the fonts hard to read. And I really didn't want different people having different views of the world anyway.

Ah, I am using a 1920x1080 monitor. Thanks for the explanation

Alec · 2019-10-24 21:46:48

Wait, really jason is using 1280x720 monitors?

I'm using iMac(5120x2880 27inch) and Windows's 1920×1080 23.5inch(144Hz).
And I have 1920x1080 monitor given by my father 15 years ago.

9eMazYt
https://gs.statcounter.com/screen-resol … erica/2014

1920x1080 populate 12% at 2014, but it upped to 20% at now.

And maybe most favorite monitor size for gamer is 1920x1080, 24inch.
https://3dinsider.com/gaming-monitor-size/

And you know, your game will be lanuch with fullscreen at default.
Your beautiful arts and graphics is always shown with dirty stretching in my monitor.

This is reason what I love only 1.5 zoom in MOD made myself.(I hate far zoom, like RTS)

jasonrohrer · 2019-10-24 21:54:11

Yes, the main dev machine that I make the game on is a laptop with a 1280x800 display.

Dell Latitude E6410 running Lubuntu.

I got it for $150 at the bargain barn.

It can run the game at 60 FPS except in busy cities.

phyduck · 2019-10-25 04:08:38

Only one last.

I request Jason again.

Please show your screen a little wider.

I read your new attempt.
Surely more tabs will be displayed.

Tabs narrow the screen.

One Hour One Life Forums

#1 2019-10-24 08:44:19

What is the difference from cheats?

#2 2019-10-24 08:53:32

Re: What is the difference from cheats?

#3 2019-10-24 09:04:10

Re: What is the difference from cheats?

#4 2019-10-24 09:18:34

Re: What is the difference from cheats?

#5 2019-10-24 09:34:19

Re: What is the difference from cheats?

#6 2019-10-24 09:39:30

Re: What is the difference from cheats?

#7 2019-10-24 09:40:55

Re: What is the difference from cheats?

#8 2019-10-24 09:54:38

Re: What is the difference from cheats?

#9 2019-10-24 14:54:17

Re: What is the difference from cheats?

#10 2019-10-24 15:06:32

Re: What is the difference from cheats?

#11 2019-10-24 15:29:05

Re: What is the difference from cheats?

#12 2019-10-24 15:39:27

Re: What is the difference from cheats?

#13 2019-10-24 15:56:56

Re: What is the difference from cheats?

#14 2019-10-24 17:21:31

Re: What is the difference from cheats?

#15 2019-10-24 18:10:44

Re: What is the difference from cheats?

#16 2019-10-24 18:43:55

Re: What is the difference from cheats?

#17 2019-10-24 19:08:25

Re: What is the difference from cheats?

#18 2019-10-24 19:43:04

Re: What is the difference from cheats?

#19 2019-10-24 19:51:06

Re: What is the difference from cheats?

#20 2019-10-24 19:55:15

Re: What is the difference from cheats?

#21 2019-10-24 21:46:48

Re: What is the difference from cheats?

#22 2019-10-24 21:54:11

Re: What is the difference from cheats?

#23 2019-10-25 04:08:38

Re: What is the difference from cheats?

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