So Less Content Again?

DestinyCall · 2019-10-18 15:05:31

JonySky wrote:

My question is: does it take a whole week to make these kinds of changes?
7 days just to nerf the poor rabbits (that nobody has requested !!!)

Nope. It only takes a few minutes to break rabbits completely.

If it feels like this change was made without consideration for how it might impact gameplay and village supply chains, don't worry! This change was prompted because Jason recently saw a village with fifty extra backpacks. Fifty! Backpacks are supposed to be precious and hard to obtain, but since rabbits are free to hunt and respawn every hour or two, people were able to make way too many packs, flooding the market and lowering their trade value. On an average rift map there are over 2000 rabbit holes and if you hunt them at peak efficiency, you could get approximately one rabbit every hour. So that means we could potentially produce 48,000 rabbits every day! That's clearly way too many bunnies. It is no wonder the situation was getting out of hand. Fortunately, Jason noticed in time.

This is just a quick fix to resolve the main issue while Jason considers a more permenant solution. I assume he will probably keep messing with rabbits until he is satisfied or until he gets distracted by the next "emergency".

And no ... this problem was NOT a direct result of the recent change that removed decay from backpacks. Don't be silly. The problem is cheap rabbits. Duh!

Last edited by DestinyCall (2019-10-18 15:07:31)

Dodge · 2019-10-18 15:12:54

Spoonwood wrote:

False. There were half a month long upticks in player count from December of 2018 to January of 2019 and from the beginning of February: https://i.imgur.com/djVG3FJ.png Another one happened in July of 2018.

If you cant see that the numbers are going down wether it was before steam or after steam i cant do anything for you, go buy some glasses.

Dodge wrote:

Oh i'm very consistent it's just that you dont understand, you can disagree about something and point out why, without constantly complaining about changes and asking for them to be removed.

Spoonwood wrote:

Dodge still isn't consistent.

Care to explain? or your lack of argument will prove my point on it's own

Dodge wrote:

If you need a tutorial to explain to you how to eat or make basic tools then it's a clear indicator that something is wrong.

Spoonwood wrote:

This is silly. I would think that almost all games of complexity have tutorials of some sort. Games that don't tend to be simple like minesweeper, and I think that also had directions on how the controls work that you could look up.

I could find hundreds of examples of games not having any tutorial, games even more complexe than this one, but frankly even if i make a list you're going to find some unrelated non sense argument so it's really not worth it (same as talking to a stuborn broken record like you)

Oh, looks like you completely ignored this that i said in my previous post, i wonder why

Dodge wrote:

Spoonwood wrote:
He probably doesn't even realize it, which probably indicates how this game isn't going in a good direction.
That sums up why most of your arguments dont make any sense at all...
Do i represent the game? How does that make sense? How does that give any indication about anything?
Me not realizing that i was contradicting myself (which is not true btw) means the game isn't going in a good direction, that's your logic?
What???
Explain your logic, if you are even able to because to me this makes absolutely no sense at all, completely illogical and unrelated comment...

Spoonwood · 2019-10-18 15:42:57

Dodge wrote:

If you cant see that the numbers are going down wether it was before steam or after steam i cant do anything for you, go buy some glasses

I have glasses already Dodge. It still stands that half a month long upticks in player count use to happen and they haven't happened since the temperature overhaul.

Not everything you say is worth responding to Dodge.

Anyways, it's interesting to see that negative emotes exist for the upcoming changes in dev-changes. Dodge will probably go on saying that over the long run this update will make the game better in the long run or whatever he is trying to claim, since s/he just can't stand to hear negative talk apparently, but with immediate negative emotions and probably more negative feedback coming from players who don't read the forums or don't read anything on the discord, over the long run this will be yet another thing that decreases player population or makes it less fun for those who do play.

Dodge · 2019-10-18 15:51:36

yeah i guess you cant even explain your own logic and arguments, no wonder you make so little sense...

JonySky · 2019-10-18 15:52:31

DestinyCall wrote:

JonySky wrote:
My question is: does it take a whole week to make these kinds of changes?
7 days just to nerf the poor rabbits (that nobody has requested !!!)
Nope. It only takes a few minutes to break rabbits completely.
If it feels like this change was made without consideration for how it might impact gameplay and village supply chains, don't worry! This change was prompted because Jason recently saw a village with fifty extra backpacks. Fifty! Backpacks are supposed to be precious and hard to obtain, but since rabbits are free to hunt and respawn every hour or two, people were able to make way too many packs, flooding the market and lowering their trade value. On an average rift map there are over 2000 rabbit holes and if you hunt them at peak efficiency, you could get approximately one rabbit every hour. So that means we could potentially produce 48,000 rabbits every day! That's clearly way too many bunnies. It is no wonder the situation was getting out of hand. Fortunately, Jason noticed in time.
This is just a quick fix to resolve the main issue while Jason considers a more permenant solution. I assume he will probably keep messing with rabbits until he is satisfied or until he gets distracted by the next "emergency".
And no ... this problem was NOT a direct result of the recent change that removed decay from backpacks. Don't be silly. The problem is cheap rabbits. Duh!

if I have also seen the cities oversaturated with backpacks and it is absurd ... but I must remind you that this is a consequence of putting everyone in a box (rift) and it will happen with everything that regenerates automatically ...
The sheep are also endless and the berries ... many elements regenerate automatically

a backpack should not be a precious object ... if we become a jewel we will frustrate the few remaining players ... especially the new ones

if we have excess backpacks, it is as simple as lowering the rabbits respawn

this also indicates that there will only be one way to get a backpack ... rabbits ...
we have airplanes ... but we have to keep hunting rabbits like in Neolithic to get a backpack ... this won't evolve? No new materials will be created to get "futuristic" backpacks?

Articles that nobody has requested to change are being changed, but I still do not see trade, new players, or a development with a clear objective.

Last edited by JonySky (2019-10-18 15:56:24)

DestinyCall · 2019-10-18 16:24:26

The other reason for the over-population of backpacks is simple - lack of adequate storage options. If you want to organize your town, you have only a very few ways to do it.

Make baskets - cheap to produce, no longer decay, able to be carried, holds three small items.
Make wood box/chest - more expensive to produce, blocks movement, stationary, able to hold up to four large items (including basket)
Make slot box - more expensive than regular box, also blocks movement & stationary, holds up to 10 small objects

With a wooden box filled with four baskets, you can hold 12 small objects, so that's a little better than a slot box, but still not great. If you replace the baskets with backpacks, you can store 16 small items in a single box. So basically, the non-decaying backpack is just re-skinned, upgraded basket. It has four slots instead of three and costs a little more to produce.

Some other storage containers:

Sledge - more expensive to produce than a wooden box, does not decay, does not block movement, mobile storage (slow), able to hold up to four medium items
Cart - more expensive to produce than a wooden box and decays after 10 hours, doesn't block movement, mobile storage (medium), able to hold up to four medium items
Hand cart with tires - requires two rubber tires and decays to regular cart after ten hours, doesn't block movement, mobile storage (medium), able to hold eight large items
Horse cart - requires cart and tamed horse, does not decay, doesn't block movement (but requires containment), mobile storage (fast), able to hold four large items
Horse cart with tires - requires two rubber tires and horse cart, does not decay, requires containment, mobile storage (fast), able to hold eight large items

Of these options, the sledge was traditionally used for storage, since it is basically a mobile box and it does not decay. Carts and carts with wheels will eventually break, so they are significantly less useful for storage, since you can't rely on them to last forever and people will walk off with them. Horse carts don't decay, so you could use them for general storage, but they are no better than a wooden box, cost a lot more to produce, and don't stay in one spot for long. They are more useful when used to haul stuff from far away, since they are so much faster than carts. HOWEVER ... with the recent change to allow for upgraded horse carts, these are the new "best" storage option. A well-designed warehouse or library in OHOL right now should look like a stable, filled with upgraded horse carts loaded with rabbit backpacks. Each horse would be able to store up to 32 small items, so you could replace three slot boxes with just one horse cart + backpacks. Even with the added cost of getting a horse, this is a better choice than using a regular box or slot box, if you want to maximize space efficiency.

....

Ideally, I'd like to see the addition of a few new storage options, so that we have somewhere to put our stuff that makes more sense AND doesn't run away when you are not looking. On the Community Crucible custom server, they've added many new items. One that I think the base game desperately needs is the "Big Shelf". It is made using steel nails (produced using the newcomen multi-purpose engine) and wooden boards. It produces a stationary storage shelf that can hold up to nine large items - it is a large wooden shelf with three levels - three objects are stored on each tier. It basically works the same as the slot box, but for BIG stuff instead of small stuff. It is brilliant and allows for compact clothing storage, better organization of yum foods, consolidating mass produced items and significantly reducing floor clutter in busy areas, like the forge or kitchen.

...

There are many ways to address the issue of players over-producing backpacks. But if you don't address the root cause behind this behavior, you'll just keep chasing the problem around in circles.

Last edited by DestinyCall (2019-10-18 16:47:55)

Spoonwood · 2019-10-18 17:00:14

Dodge wrote:

yeah i guess you cant even explain your own logic and arguments, no wonder you make so little sense...

No Dodge. I don't have to explain myself so much, because I'm confident that plenty of people agree with me, in particular about the rabbit changes. Honestly, sigmen has started to make me think that I'm even underestimating how bad this change will be, meaning I should be even more negative. You're an outlier here telling me to shut up, when my complaints end up more in line with how forum users AND people on the discord see the game.

Spoonwood · 2019-10-18 17:03:42

DestinyCall wrote:

The other reason for the over-population of backpacks is simple - lack of adequate storage options.

As I think you're aware people have also clamored for more or better storage for a very long time. And now? Less storage. It honestly baffles the mind how anyone could interpret all of the calls for storage as not indicative of actual players' desires.

Dantox · 2019-10-18 17:06:13

DestinyCall wrote:

If it feels like this change was made without consideration for how it might impact gameplay and village supply chains

Tbh i feel the same with every first update that jason makes when changing any core mechanic. It feels that he doesnt think about it that much and just waits to take some data and then tries to resolve it the next week via trial and error.

DestinyCall wrote:

This is just a quick fix to resolve the main issue while Jason considers a more permenant solution. I assume he will probably keep messing with rabbits until he is satisfied or until he gets distracted by the next "emergency"

Lets just hope that this next month worth of updates wont be just him twinkering with rabbits and the ocassional bug fix/change.

DestinyCall · 2019-10-18 19:14:32

Dantox wrote:

Lets just hope that this next month worth of updates wont be just him twinkering with rabbits and the ocassional bug fix/change.

If I had to guess, I would say he is done with rabbits, unless something unexpected comes up when the changes go live.

He has already gone to the effort of making the transitions and invested about one day of effort on rabbit baiting, so he will resist any negative feedback he recieves at this point and ignore any suggestion that it was wasted effort. He definitely won't want to revert the changes or start over with a different approach, because he already made art with mashed berry/carrot on a flat rock. The changes run too deep.

If the last six months have taught me anything, it is that once an idea gets into OHOL, it stays in. Good, bad, or ugly. Does not matter.

I hope you guys enjoyed having backpacks while it lasted.

Redram · 2019-10-18 20:52:30

I don't know why these decisions by Jason still surprise people. This is his MO, just like Destiny said. He doesn't have a plan, he's just reacting to things, and throwing stuff against the wall and seeing what sticks, and mopping up the mess when it doesn't. He doesn't know how to design a survival game, despite his 16 years etc (regardless of what he wants the 'overall' game to be, it's still built on a survival game framework)

CatX · 2019-10-18 21:22:06

DestinyCall wrote:

That's clearly way too many bunnies. It is no wonder the situation was getting out of hand. Fortunately, Jason noticed in time.

Thank you for saving the players from the mean killer rabbits, Jason.

DestinyCall · 2019-10-18 21:38:00

https://media.giphy.com/media/GroYi4hkiUuPe/giphy.gif

Spoonwood · 2019-10-18 21:39:37

DestinyCall wrote:

https://media.giphy.com/media/GroYi4hkiUuPe/giphy.gif

That's what I started thinking of also. Run away! Run away!

DestinyCall · 2019-10-18 21:51:36

"That rabbit's got a vicious streak a mile wide! It's a killer! Just look at the bones."

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#26 2019-10-18 15:05:31

Re: So Less Content Again?

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