Last map reset happend because ...

Whatever · 2019-07-31 11:49:03

Global failure condition is now baby/mother ratio of 4 or higher (counting helpless, < 3-year babies and fertile mothers). So no more baby overload at very end.

It did not happen because there werent any resources left, there were a lot of resources of all kinds, its just that there were a lot of babies and that triggered the apoc.
I dont think the current apoc system is good.

schmloo · 2019-07-31 12:22:49

What if, with the current system still in place, extra babies above a max limit of 4 per mother start as Eves in a new rift, opening up another 2 hour window there but babies can still be born in the older rift? Also, maybe there’s a maximum number of families present in one rift for this to be allowed to happen? Additionally, what if killing the last female of a lineage gets you-rift banned, and instead of donkey town griefers get confined to their own rift?

Then, when the family actually dies from the environment, that unpopulated rift is then reset like culling used to work (the trigger being lack of people in the rift instead of a set time), not the entire server?

Last edited by schmloo (2019-07-31 12:34:46)

Whatever · 2019-07-31 15:33:40

Maybe another solution is to just only let females be born if the baby count gets high.

Dodge · 2019-07-31 15:41:07

Yeah it's not very good, imo it should reset when there is no more hope, no fertile women and no girls left.

And to avoid overpopulation you should spawn as a "lone wolf" or "unfertile Eve" somewhere on the map if you died too many times already.

You could still find a village and contribute but couldn't birth more babies.

Maybe there could be only 6/6 lives or even less and a refill rate of one per hour and if you run out you spawn somewhere randomly as unfertile.

So lives are precious because if everyone dies they cant be fertile for at least one hour.

And the last lineage eventually dies.

ollj · 2019-07-31 15:50:51

most recent reset happened, because i woke up and decided to lure 2x3=6 bears to a big city. at the same time someone else lured 4 bears to another city, which i only saw claimed in discord.

Then it was mostly only 2-4 females left, as i kept being born to the same 2 bad moms, the baby deaths skyrocketed.
One mom was not feeding any baby but instead helt a speech.
That was pretty good trololoos.

jasonrohrer · 2019-07-31 15:59:26

I made it 4 BB instead of 6 to trigger it earlier, so there's not so much frustrating dead-baby churn on the part of the players trying to join near the end.

It sounds like you were at that point. 2 mothers left is not enough. for 60+ players who want to play. No sense in prolonging the agony.

AND YES, when fewer than 1/15 of the players on the server are fertile mothers, there are nothing but girls born. So no boys born.

In that picture, I do see some boy BB, so there may be a bug in that code. I will look. But I have tested it, and it does generally work.

Okay, so this is the kinda data that I need.

You had plenty of resources, but not enough fertile moms to make a viable game.

Spawning more Eves is an option, I guess. I mean, that's the way it used to work (there was no Eve spiral), but that lead to griefing. I guess after the Eve window, it might only happen if there really aren't enough fertile moms left. Then we get an Eve. We definitely need a new fertile mom at that point. We don't need 30 sterile Eves (or adams) running around.

Maybe the Eve window needs to be disabled. That's easy for me to do w/out a restart.

But then what's the failure condition? I guess I could go back to the dead-baby apocalypse, where if no baby lives to age 30 in the past hour, we kill it.

But that could make a very dire situation for everyone if just one family is living well somewhere....

Dodge · 2019-07-31 16:10:16

Maybe every fertile woman could have a limit of babies depending on their genetic score.

If every fertile woman on server reaches their limit a new Eve is born.

But that Eve would also have a limit of babies depending on her score.

This way the score would actually have a meaning since the higher your score the higher chance of your civ surviving.

This would also make every baby more precious since you couldn't pop out 10-20 babies per life.

(number of babies should be calculated by the average of all the existing score, because currently scores are very low. so everyone would birth only 1-2 babies. Average score of players that played recently)

jasonrohrer · 2019-07-31 16:13:15

But then what's the failure condition?

Grim_Arbiter · 2019-07-31 16:26:43

I wonder if keeping the initial eves at the beginning, but then adding the chance for 1 eve to be born every 2 or 3 hours after would help.

Dodge · 2019-07-31 16:27:15

How about a reverse condition, if there is more than 10 Different families (random number) it means too many fertile mother reached their limit because too many deaths so too many new Eve's spawned and failure condition triggers.

And killing other families as a strategy to avoid the end wouldn't work since it would just end up spawning more Eve's which equals more families.

Why not have unfertile Eve's and Adam's?

If all the fertile woman reached their baby limit you spawn as unfertile Eve or Adam which means the end is near and you have to wait for the current girls to be fertile to be able to be born as a baby.

Until there is no more girls or fertile woman and there is only unfertile Eve's,Adam's and old people left, then the world ends.

If every woman runs out of babies it would mean people died too many times due to lack of ressources or other reasons and it would be a fair end of the arc.

schmloo · 2019-07-31 16:36:19

Fundamentally, shouldn’t the fail condition be the very last person dying, because the area has run out of resources and it’s literally unliveable?

There needs to be somewhere for the spare babies to go. Would it make sense to start another rift “round” early while the current has met it’s failure, or in this case overflow conditions? Then the older rift has a chance for the final family to die out and spend the rest of it’s resources?

Amon · 2019-07-31 16:36:39

Multiple families require an active benefit to existing.
Those genociding maniacs are absolutely bonkers though, all they are doing is making sure other/their own town are getting overburdned with incomming babies. Even if it seems they are competing at first.

Yes, there has to be an active benefit to keeping eachother on a good note. Choices are not good if there is no choice to make.
You should be actively weighting the benefits of keeping your neighbor alive or dead before taking such a rash decsision. "lets kill them before they kill us" is not such a mindset, paranoia breeds chaos, we need balance.
If your neighbor benefits you, you'll think really hard about 'is it worth it' and then decide if you want to trade the X benefit for war sword security.

Last edited by Amon (2019-07-31 16:38:53)

Dodge · 2019-07-31 16:37:45

World would end when there is only Adam's and unfertile Eve's left.

This way we could keep the Eve window, avoid overpopulation and have a fair end of the arc.

Amon · 2019-07-31 16:40:04

But if there were enough towns with an ideal population distribution, and if they are relatively secure, overpopulation would probably not be that big of an issue.

jasonrohrer · 2019-07-31 17:04:43

Yes, schmloo, there could be "walking rifts" where we start the next one nextdoor as this one is winding to a close.

However, that somewhat undercuts the "one big story that we're all invested in" thing that I'm going for here. It also splits people up into two hard-isolated groups, which I'm hesitant to do.

I really want everyone in discord experiencing collective anguish as they try to keep the thing alive for just one more hour.... together... and not something like, "I dunno what the big deal is in the old rift, the rest of us are in the new rift and we're doing fine!"

Too many families means failure is interesting. I mean, if normal endless Eve-spiral spawn was in place, that would happen eventually, I guess? Eventually, Eves would have babies die, so still be on cooldown, thus there would be new Eves.

Not sure how the beginning would be handled. There are usually a ton of families at the beginning. Could be a special case in the beginning, where we wait 2 hours before ever testing how many families there are (a new semantics for the "eve window".... the eve window is the time when we allow unlimited eves.... later, we end the arc if there are too many).

But what about /DIE griefers forcing themselves to be Eves just to trigger the failure condition?

It's funny... this is actually an AI problem, in a way. A human judge would be able to look at the world and say, "This is clearly over. End it now." There could be a bunch of different reasons for this judgement.

But we're trying to devise a simple automated system to make that judgement call. And it's hard!

jasonrohrer · 2019-07-31 17:09:25

What about too few families?

Then we have a "keep the neighbors alive" game.... which was actually what was happening before with the outsiders flying life-support into the rift for the Hammers.

This was like the Matrix keeping the human batteries alive, or hunger games, or whatever. It was very cool. Probably the coolest single thing that happened in the entire history of the game.

Not sure how "too few families" would work, exactly.

But maybe there's the Eve window (lots of families) and then after that closes, we just count, and stop the game when there's <5 families left.

In general, that would be over quick, at least at first.

I suppose the same thing could work w/out the rift (ensuring 5+ families survive in infinite wilderness will be hard).

jasonrohrer · 2019-07-31 17:11:29

There could be a UI in the client showing "9/5 families Remain".

Dodge · 2019-07-31 17:30:12

too few families is a bad idea, gives way too much incentive to grief and murder to end the arc.

Imo the best would be no more girls, no more fertile (or fertile but no more babies) and the rest spawning as Adam's or sterile Eve's

Since it would only happen near the end i dont see a big issue with it.

"But what about /DIE griefers forcing themselves to be Eves just to trigger the failure condition?"

If the same player die to you more than once it doesn't count in the limit of babies per mother, this way you couldn't burn the baby limit by using /die or running repeatedly.

jasonrohrer · 2019-07-31 17:33:29

If everyone wants to end the current arc, there's no way I can stop that, right? Whatever the failure condition, if enough players are determined to meet that condition, it will be met.

Dodge · 2019-07-31 17:39:26

Yeah but it being about isolated families give them a lot of power to end the arc.

I spawn in a familly, i stealth grief all the food source and needed tools.

That's one less family to the counter, then onto the next one.

And if you got rid of one that's -1 to the counter that wont go back up.

So it's pretty easy to get rid of enough families one by one, even for an isolated player and not a group.

But if it depends on player deaths then it's impossible to grief everyone to the point of having such an impact.

I guess if it's down to one village then it gets dangerous and interesting for griefers, that's why more ways to stop them are needed.

jasonrohrer · 2019-07-31 17:43:24

Yes, good point there about doing it from the inside, one fam at a time.

DAMMIT.... this is so complicated!

There's a reason why this game didn't exist before....

Dodge · 2019-07-31 17:47:36

sigmen4020 wrote:

Dodge wrote:
Yeah it's not very good, imo it should reset when there is no more hope, no fertile women and no girls left.
And to avoid overpopulation you should spawn as a "lone wolf" or "unfertile Eve" somewhere on the map if you died too many times already.
You could still find a village and contribute but couldn't birth more babies.
Maybe there could be only 6/6 lives or even less and a refill rate of one per hour and if you run out you spawn somewhere randomly as unfertile.
So lives are precious because if everyone dies they cant be fertile for at least one hour.
And the last lineage eventually dies.
Wouldn’t it be easier to just spawn a lone male, an “Adam” if you will, instead of having to code a female to be infertile.
I think it could be decent idea to spawn people who die more than six times in an hour as Adam to mostly avoid the baby hell. Though it might result in an Adam hell instead.

Sure only Adam's or even children raised by wolves why not, but Adam hell would be avoided by spawning them randomly on the map, so not a cluster Adam's.

They could either try to help the remaining lineage if they find the village or try to kill them to end the arc.

sigmen4020 · 2019-07-31 17:56:25

Dodge wrote:

sigmen4020 wrote:
Dodge wrote:
Yeah it's not very good, imo it should reset when there is no more hope, no fertile women and no girls left.
And to avoid overpopulation you should spawn as a "lone wolf" or "unfertile Eve" somewhere on the map if you died too many times already.
You could still find a village and contribute but couldn't birth more babies.
Maybe there could be only 6/6 lives or even less and a refill rate of one per hour and if you run out you spawn somewhere randomly as unfertile.
So lives are precious because if everyone dies they cant be fertile for at least one hour.
And the last lineage eventually dies.
Wouldn’t it be easier to just spawn a lone male, an “Adam” if you will, instead of having to code a female to be infertile.
I think it could be decent idea to spawn people who die more than six times in an hour as Adam to mostly avoid the baby hell. Though it might result in an Adam hell instead.
Sure only Adam's or even children raised by wolves why not, but Adam hell would be avoided by spawning them randomly on the map, so not a cluster Adam's.
They could either try to help the remaining lineage if they find the village or try to kill them to end the arc.

Lol you caught the post I deleted a few minutes later after posting it. That’s impressive.

The biggest reason I deleted it was that I noticed you calling the in-fertile Eves Adams yourself later so I felt pretty dumb for correcting something you already mentioned afterwards. But I can see what you mean. A big Adam army could unite to end the arc better than newborn babies could.

Last edited by sigmen4020 (2019-07-31 17:58:12)

Dodge · 2019-07-31 18:02:58

sigmen4020 wrote:

Dodge wrote:
sigmen4020 wrote:
Wouldn’t it be easier to just spawn a lone male, an “Adam” if you will, instead of having to code a female to be infertile.
I think it could be decent idea to spawn people who die more than six times in an hour as Adam to mostly avoid the baby hell. Though it might result in an Adam hell instead.
Sure only Adam's or even children raised by wolves why not, but Adam hell would be avoided by spawning them randomly on the map, so not a cluster Adam's.
They could either try to help the remaining lineage if they find the village or try to kill them to end the arc.
Lol you caught the post I deleted a few minutes later after posting it. That’s impressive.
The biggest reason I deleted it was that I noticed you calling the in-fertile Eves Adams yourself later so I felt pretty dumb for correcting something you already mentioned afterwards. But I can see what you mean. A big Adam army could unite to end the arc better than newborn babies could.

I was actually referring to in-fertile Eves as in-fertile Eves so you're right it would be easier to just have Adams, but it wouldn't be that hard to have in-fertile Eves since tutorial Eves are already in-fertile.

But i guess spawning only as Adam makes it more clear that the world is close to end, instead of Eve where some players could get confused why they are not getting any babies.

One Hour One Life Forums

#1 2019-07-31 11:49:03

Last map reset happend because ...

#2 2019-07-31 12:22:49

Re: Last map reset happend because ...

#3 2019-07-31 15:33:40

Re: Last map reset happend because ...

#4 2019-07-31 15:41:07

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#5 2019-07-31 15:50:51

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#6 2019-07-31 15:59:26

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#7 2019-07-31 16:10:16

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#8 2019-07-31 16:13:15

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#9 2019-07-31 16:26:43

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