Changes for the next Arc run

jasonrohrer · 2019-07-26 06:16:23

Next arc run is going live now.

Area is 1000x1000 (a million tiles, 4x as big as before).

Threshold for triggering reset is no baby living to 40 for an entire hour (was 15 before).

Only babies INSIDE the rift count, to prevent escapees from blocking the reset by living long lives outside, after the inside has become hell.

Berry bushes have been fixed so that you can't just stake wild ones to turn them domestic.

Baby teleporting glitch has finally been fixed (didn't know that was still an issue until just now).

AmberA · 2019-07-26 06:43:43

Can someone explain what's in the patch? What the arc is, what the rift is. I played today and saw a line that I couldn't go though and lived a bunch of painfully hard lives, mostly starving because areas were stripped of resources. Are there patch notes or something? If so where? Thx.

Coniculls13 · 2019-07-26 06:52:18

Appears to be a world limit introduced to enhance the scarcity of resources.

jasonrohrer · 2019-07-26 07:25:50

There will be an update post tomorrow.

BlueDiamondAvatar · 2019-07-26 13:50:50

AmberA wrote:

Can someone explain what's in the patch? What the arc is, what the rift is. I played today and saw a line that I couldn't go though and lived a bunch of painfully hard lives, mostly starving because areas were stripped of resources. Are there patch notes or something? If so where? Thx.

Jason usually posts his notes on the update a few days after pushing out the update. That's not ideal for those of us who are using the update in between, but it's one of the things that happens because of Jason's one-man development style. On the one hand you gotta respect that the man was up through the night patching bugs. But almost all had been reported to him months ago, and if he'd asked on the forums or discord everyone would have told him 500x500 is too small.

Those watching the forums and discord usually have a vague sense of what Jason is aiming for before he posts the update notes... here's my take.

The Rift is meant to create an unpassable wall, which limits the space and resources available for making towns. Jason intends to create a sense of story arc for each world, based on the different lifestyles people will have when resources and technologies are at different levels.

When Jason said, the next arc is going live, what he meant is that he's resetting the map for the server to initial conditions, but also changing some of the conditions of the box inside the Rift.

If you want to join us in reading the tealeaves of what Jason is up to, there's a feed showing his updates to the code on the OHOL discord server. https://discordapp.com/invite/vnCGnb?ut … um=Connect

Averest · 2019-07-26 13:54:13

So the game is now Survival Game of Parenting and PUBG? Am I reading this correctly?

BlueDiamondAvatar · 2019-07-26 14:02:10

Yes, life inside the Thunderbox is pretty much battle royale, or maybe griefing royale. Someone was spamming stakes last night, so there were no long branches inside the box. Someone else was spamming bows, so there was no milkweed inside the box. I watched griefers demonstrate their ability to make a bow and arrow from nothing in thirty seconds. A lot of people got murdered. I have not played since the box got expanded, so YMMV.

seth · 2019-07-26 14:18:41

I'm seeing a lot of this sentiment on this forum: You made a change, it didn't have the effect you wanted, therefore it was a horrible failure.

That's just design in general. You make a change based on your gut, you see how it changes things, you learn, and then you make another change.

I wouldn't want to play a game by a designer that tried to just "not make mistakes". This game would not have even gotten to this point with that mentality. We'd still be living in infinite carrot farms.

People seem to be advocating for a "design by committee" approach. Maybe you genuinely think that is a good approach - if so I'm curious where you've seen instances of it working. In my life, I've only see design by committee produce watered down, weak experiences.

jasonrohrer · 2019-07-26 14:54:26

Baby teleportation had never been reported on its own.

The general teleportation bug was fixed a long time ago. I didn't know baby teleport was still possible.

In fact, last night, I was unable to replicate baby teleportation with my client. I tried a bunch of setups with property fences, but my client would always force-drop the baby at my feet (I could never drop them on a blocking tile). Thus, maybe it was something that required a modded client? Or some client glitch that I'm just not aware of?

ANYWAY, I was able to replicate the issue by modding the server code to simulate whatever client bug would allow you to drop a baby on a blocking tile, and yes, this indeed caused the server to throw the baby. So the fix was: never throw a baby, ever, no matter what the client asks for (even though I couldn't get my client to ask for that).

The problem here is that an adversarial player population was refusing to report this bug to me, nor offer me examples of how to replicate it. Ha ha, Jason, we're not going to tell you about this bug, because we like it so much.

So because of that, I wasted about two hours of my precious sleep time last night tracking the bug blind, without having a replication method. Thanks, everyone. A simple screenshot would have been so helpful.

And the wild berry bush staking issue... there are 141 open content issues, and as far as I can tell, that's not one of them. So it hasn't been reported. I wasn't aware that it was possible until I looked at the tech tree. I had never seen it widely done in practice until last night.

Whatever · 2019-07-26 15:12:05

jasonrohrer wrote:

Ha ha, Jason, we're not going to tell you about this bug, because we like it so much.
So because of that, I wasted about two hours of my precious sleep time last night tracking the bug blind, without having a replication method. Thanks, everyone. A simple screenshot would have been so helpful.

People dident want this bug to be fixed thats why they dident tell you.

You assume that your vision of the game is the best for everyone, but many players think differently.

You often show us that you dont know much about how your own game is played, i dont think that you like playing your own game.
In your final vision of the game, will you enjoy playing it?

Last edited by Whatever (2019-07-26 15:12:19)

jasonrohrer · 2019-07-26 15:28:17

And you wonder why I don't discuss the design and direction of the game in the public part of the forums anymore? Last night on discord was a trainwreck of bad advice, complaining, insulting me, etc.

Is it fixed now? Yes or no? Did I follow any of that bad advice to fix it, though?

I will repeat my goal one last time, in case you missed it: to make the greatest game of all time. If you think it's possible to do that without some experimentation and failure along the way, you're a much better designer than I am, and I can't wait to play your masterpiece. But this is my masterpiece.

I'm going to keep trying things until I get there. Crazy things. You haven't seen anything yet.

You can try to stop me, but it won't work.

Go play on the time machine server if you think this game has only gotten worse over time....

RodneyC86 · 2019-07-26 15:44:05

Oh snap, J I think you need to take a break.. again.
Really

BlueDiamondAvatar · 2019-07-26 16:24:58

jasonrohrer wrote:

The problem here is that an adversarial player population was refusing to report this bug to me, nor offer me examples of how to replicate it.

I think you have trained us to be adversarial rather than cooperative. I've posted many bugs in github, but I've never gotten any thanks. I've told players reporting bugs in the forums and discord chat to report a bug in github and they've been unwilling to take the time to create a new login and password. You are relying on us to freely give you information about gameplay experiences you don't have time to reproduce. Discovering bugs is fun. Reporting them is work.

Other game developers have beta testers that they either pay for their time (in the big companies) or acknowledge in credits (like Klei). But most of the experienced and invested players for OHOL use modded clients. You tell us its our fault for not using your client, rather than trying to figure out what happened. (I'm thinking about the ghost character issue here). If the baby teleporting was client specific... why would anyone expect you to troubleshoot it, if they reported throug the normal channels?

This is bigger than just bug reporting... you have a suggestions Reddit, but no one active on the game believes that you check it.

And then there are all the many times people have strongly told you that something is a problem, and you've ignored them. Not being able to curse outside of our family is a problem, and locking us up in a box makes that problem worse. Apparently people warned you the 500 x 500 is way too small, and you chose to rely on your own logic and ignored the advice.

So you've trained us to not expect you to listen. Why would folks take the time to tell you something when we don't trust you to listen? Through what method would they contact you when they realize you are about to rollout a change that will make that issue urgent?

jasonrohrer wrote:

And the wild berry bush staking issue... there are 141 open content issues, and as far as I can tell, that's not one of them. So it hasn't been reported. I wasn't aware that it was possible until I looked at the tech tree. I had never seen it widely done in practice until last night.

It was widely known within the community. It was clearly discover-able on the tech tree, and I've seen people talk about it in the forums and the discord. I'm not your volunteer or your employee. Maybe you should think about how to reward the people who report issues and make useful suggestions to you instead of labeling *your entire player base* as adversarial.

Also, i think you are fooling yourself if you think your goal is to "create the greatest game of all time" It's super clear that your goal is to "create the best game I can make 100% by myself".

You are succeeding wildly at making the best game anyone could ever make on their own. But unless you clarify your limitations, players are going to keep on having inflated expectations. The OP I was responding to was someone expecting you to have a write-up before the update is released. That's an expectation that's reasonable for "the best game of all time" but not reasonable for "the best game anyone has ever made 100% on their own."

Tarr · 2019-07-26 16:26:00

Bug had been reported to you for almost four months along with the exact way to replicate it. Could have saved yourself two hours if you just looked directly at your github where people post bugs for you and what not.

BlueDiamondAvatar · 2019-07-26 16:39:10

jasonrohrer wrote:

I will repeat my goal one last time, in case you missed it: to make the greatest game of all time. If you think it's possible to do that without some experimentation and failure along the way, you're a much better designer than I am, and I can't wait to play your masterpiece. But this is my masterpiece.

I'm going to keep trying things until I get there. Crazy things. You haven't seen anything yet.
You can try to stop me, but it won't work.

We aren't trying to stop you, we are trying to help you. (Ok, the majority of us are trying to help you.....some folks are just rude and mean.)

If you are going to create a masterpiece that is a MULTIPLAYER online game, you need a base of players that will be patient with you through changes. Cause you can't iterate to a better solution if you only have ten people playing the game each week.

And we are only going to stick with it if we are having fun. We are trying to tell you what would make the game more fun again.

For me that's pretty simple - give us back non-family cursing, so we can send the bow-spamming, stake-spamming bastards back to DT. Limiting cursing to your family unit might work in your endgame vision, but it is not working now, and it makes the iterations between tightly packed towns and spread out families painful to go through.

Looking forward to more crazy changes,

jasonrohrer · 2019-07-26 16:40:42

Yes, there it is! I couldn't find it when I looked. 141 issues is a lot to go through. Really need to push through all of them, but that will take about three weeks, I think.

Actually, now that I see how to reproduce (baby jumps out intentionally), I'm not even sure that my fix fixed it.

BladeWoods · 2019-07-26 17:04:31

jasonrohrer wrote:

Yes, there it is! I couldn't find it when I looked. 141 issues is a lot to go through. Really need to push through all of them, but that will take about three weeks, I think.
Actually, now that I see how to reproduce (baby jumps out intentionally), I'm not even sure that my fix fixed it.

Some of the 141 issues are stuff that's already been fixed, duplicates, or non-issues. But most are good issues I hope you get to.

Dodge · 2019-07-26 17:08:03

"to make the greatest game of all time"

It's really nice to have a dev that is this motivated and not some cash grab, nice trailer, big promises followed by a slow and steady decrease in updates and finally an unfinished dead game that had a lot of potential, like there is so many on steam...

Too bad some community members cant just enjoy the ups and downs and put even a tiny ammount of thought and effort into constructive criticism or even better some valuable feedback on their experience of the game.

Negativity is the lowest effort and just ends up achieving nothing valuable.

It's perfectly fine to rant and vent every now and then but when it's 90% of the forum posts it just makes you want to not read it and not participate.

I usually wont read posts when i know this user is going to mostly be ranting and saying nothing really interesting, waste of time.

Too bad, we could really share some interesting feedback, experiences and ideas to improve the game in a meaningful way.

I truly believe that everyone has their own unique and interesting perspective that could improve the game in some way but putting this perspective under layers of shit is just not going to achieve anything.

If you really think about it, it's when you break something that you realize it's flaws and weakpoints and figure out how to make it truly great and not just mediocre or half-assed.

If you want a great game then pain is part of the process unless you prefer something mediocre that everybody will forget eventually.

Next time you are frustrated or angry after a life ask yourself what REALLY caused the issue, look at all the pieces of the puzzle that led to this particular event and not just the last seconds before it happened.

If you noticed something that sticked out or that you keep thinking about, maybe you're onto something.

Share it on the forums, something great could come from it.

jasonrohrer · 2019-07-26 18:15:23

Pretty much all I heard on discord last night was "JASON REMOVE THIS UPDATE."

Yeah, that's not helpful.

I've been working on this all week, and thinking about it and discussing it with people for many weeks. Of course, it's impossible to predict exactly what will happen, which is why it needs to be tested live.

Three hours of pain is not then end of the world, folks, in the scope of a game that has been up and running for over 11,000 hours.

There will be many more little hours of pain in the future. That's the way game development works sometimes.

I realize that you're all just trolling me with how "upset" you seem to get. For some reason, I keep falling for it. I'll try to stop falling for it.

AmberA · 2019-07-26 21:21:42

jasonrohrer wrote:

Pretty much all I heard on discord last night was "JASON REMOVE THIS UPDATE."
Yeah, that's not helpful.
I've been working on this all week, and thinking about it and discussing it with people for many weeks. Of course, it's impossible to predict exactly what will happen, which is why it needs to be tested live.
Three hours of pain is not then end of the world, folks, in the scope of a game that has been up and running for over 11,000 hours.
There will be many more little hours of pain in the future. That's the way game development works sometimes.

I realize that you're all just trolling me with how "upset" you seem to get. For some reason, I keep falling for it. I'll try to stop falling for it.

I think what would really help is a message that managed expectations of players. For example, many players don't know it's just you. And many players don't come to the forums or even pay attention to updates. They don't know what changed. And most importantly they don't know that what just changed isn't final. I think what would help is like a message on the game screen before I play that says something in red like "Update 251 now LIVE: Note this update is a work in progress. I will be making adjustments based on feedback and fixing bugs over the next few weeks." Or something, any easy to find communication so that the community is told that what is live isn't the end product and info about the dials that you are tweaking to calm people down.

They, we, are passionate about the update only because we care about the game and are worried that the current version makes the game less fun than before.

ollj · 2019-07-26 21:42:00

good luck aiming for the stars jason.

im not totally against the fenche constrain, but the overall gameplay just got more randoim and a lot dumber.

The_Anabaptist · 2019-07-26 23:04:36

Lots of whining and moaning going on. And yet the game recommended % on the main page of the website hasn't changed. So much hot air without any meaningful direction, I'd think I was in the tropics right now...

The_Anabaptist

Jk Howling · 2019-07-27 01:14:12

Grats Jason, you broke the game again. Prepare yourself, the angry mob is roused once more and are probably going to jump down your throat about removing these god-awful ideas again.

But dw, they're all crazy. You're the only sane one ^ ^ Keep on trucking.

jasonrohrer · 2019-07-27 01:16:09

Thank you, JK!

BladeWoods · 2019-07-27 01:36:27

There's some really useless people on here that cry and piss about stuff that's not 1/4 as bad as they make it out to be. Things are kinda broken right now but I've been playing and I already think the game is more interesting now than it was before. It's a lot more challenging now, and any update that makes the game more challenging has always had very negative backlash.

Last edited by BladeWoods (2019-07-27 01:41:20)

One Hour One Life Forums

#1 2019-07-26 06:16:23

Changes for the next Arc run

#2 2019-07-26 06:43:43

Re: Changes for the next Arc run

#3 2019-07-26 06:52:18

Re: Changes for the next Arc run

#4 2019-07-26 07:25:50

Re: Changes for the next Arc run

#5 2019-07-26 13:50:50

Re: Changes for the next Arc run

#6 2019-07-26 13:54:13

Re: Changes for the next Arc run

#7 2019-07-26 14:02:10

Re: Changes for the next Arc run

#8 2019-07-26 14:18:41

Re: Changes for the next Arc run

#9 2019-07-26 14:54:26

Re: Changes for the next Arc run

#10 2019-07-26 15:12:05

Re: Changes for the next Arc run

#11 2019-07-26 15:28:17

Re: Changes for the next Arc run

#12 2019-07-26 15:44:05

Re: Changes for the next Arc run

#13 2019-07-26 16:24:58

Re: Changes for the next Arc run

#14 2019-07-26 16:26:00

Re: Changes for the next Arc run

#15 2019-07-26 16:39:10

Re: Changes for the next Arc run

#16 2019-07-26 16:40:42

Re: Changes for the next Arc run

#17 2019-07-26 17:04:31

Re: Changes for the next Arc run

#18 2019-07-26 17:08:03

Re: Changes for the next Arc run

#19 2019-07-26 18:15:23

Re: Changes for the next Arc run

#20 2019-07-26 21:21:42

Re: Changes for the next Arc run

#21 2019-07-26 21:42:00

Re: Changes for the next Arc run

#22 2019-07-26 23:04:36

Re: Changes for the next Arc run

#23 2019-07-27 01:14:12

Re: Changes for the next Arc run

#24 2019-07-27 01:16:09

Re: Changes for the next Arc run

#25 2019-07-27 01:36:27

Re: Changes for the next Arc run

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