Jason, before you limit the map, change how fences work, maybe graves

pein · 2019-07-25 07:19:32

If you limit a map to 500 tiles, someone will run and split it on the middle, basically walling off two sides
next can do it again, and again

i wouldn't worry about outsiders as much as insider griefers, as you can keep out others, but you cant keep out babies and with limited resources the focus will be on optimization, and things like grave digging are like the worst thing imaginable
it shouldn't cost shovel usage, it should be done with other non iron tool or not using iron to get rid of endless bone piles

I would suggest, fences can be broken by hitting them 200x? with sharp stones or hatchets
something is slow and tedious unless is important to get trough, or at least the timing set back to older one

gonan be a chaos and good for a change but without additional mechanics, it will be a fail

after a few hours it will just be endles mazes all around

RodneyC86 · 2019-07-25 07:38:35

Maybe I'm giving myself too much credit, but what Jason is about to do is eerily similar to what I suggested previously regarding a very limited map with finite resources and world auto resetting if world becomes too harsh for people to live beyond a certain age

Thisis a radical change though, I can see a lot of close range tussles. I mean, finite is nice but 500 tiles seems miniscule?

testo · 2019-07-25 07:43:33

Yeah 500 square tiles sound ridiculous for 100 players. Even 2000 seems limited to me but who knows...

ollj · 2019-07-25 10:46:05

yes a 2000k long property fenche can be huld in the middle of nowhere within 60 minutes by a single player.
i saw someone do it once long ago (was mote a marking path full of gaps, but still cute), and messed around with thic ocncept once more, just to test how much of a loop/wall may be feasible to dare in fenchless property gates.

in concluseion ALL property fenches are a waste of time, lifes and resources, except the ones that are build and maintained around endstone towers by at least 2 people for at least 6 hours (which had been done twice by now, drastically increasing the promo-drama (which surely sold some more game copies) of the game for the last 2 days in terms of life streamers during the last 4 apocalypses.)

500 tile property fenche partitions are easily doable, and therefore will happen a lot alongside impassable barriers, for better and surely mostly for worse, as those fenches are always enfoecerd by intantkilling knife-wielding owners with big greedy short lived family brnaches, buig enough to curse anyone to donkey town in a whim.

Last edited by ollj (2019-07-25 10:50:56)

RodneyC86 · 2019-07-25 10:52:34

testo wrote:

Yeah 500 square tiles sound ridiculous for 100 players. Even 2000 seems limited to me but who knows...

500 x 500 - is still a quarter million tiles though. That's 2,500 tiles per player. or a 50 x 50 grid, size of a really big town. Maybe not so bad?

As some might get funny ideas here - I agree with pein that property fences needs to be destroyable in some way. Not too easy a way since it would be undermined - but some way.

Edit: think pein mentioned the property fence issue in another thread

Last edited by RodneyC86 (2019-07-25 10:53:07)

ollj · 2019-07-25 11:32:50

within 4 lifes, i can cut all straight branch trees within a 200 tile radius. it is possible to do a 500x500 tile tree genocide, by one player within 4 hours.
That does not destroy cities, but it makes them grow much slower and explore a bit further.

sorry ziv town from 3 apocalypses ago, this was just a test on the long term effects of that.

Last edited by ollj (2019-07-25 11:34:12)

pein · 2019-07-25 13:08:18

RodneyC86 wrote:

testo wrote:
Yeah 500 square tiles sound ridiculous for 100 players. Even 2000 seems limited to me but who knows...
500 x 500 - is still a quarter million tiles though. That's 2,500 tiles per player. or a 50 x 50 grid, size of a really big town. Maybe not so bad?
As some might get funny ideas here - I agree with pein that property fences needs to be destroyable in some way. Not too easy a way since it would be undermined - but some way.
Edit: think pein mentioned the property fence issue in another thread

i mean you got 7 biome types
seems to be equal proprtion, just a bit of random on the positions

but in average case it's equal

that means only 4 out of 7 bioems are liveable cause of temperature
only 4/7 have sprigns on it

wondible made this picture
just take a look, grey is the swamp, i only see 5 decent green biomes
and only one with swamp near it

now it's decent to boom in a swamp then move, or try out other types

but any type f griefing is bad long term, i mean i don't even plan to play real cause it will just frustrate me

fences are broken
he modelled after rust twigs, which is just a frame in rust, but there they are easily broken
if it would be slow to get trough but upgradeable then people would need to take care of it, and that would make it better

i remember i spent 2 hours in a fenced town and even tho it was only one exit, people fixed every wall so you had to go around all the time

RodneyC86 · 2019-07-25 13:32:27

pein wrote:

RodneyC86 wrote:
testo wrote:
Yeah 500 square tiles sound ridiculous for 100 players. Even 2000 seems limited to me but who knows...
500 x 500 - is still a quarter million tiles though. That's 2,500 tiles per player. or a 50 x 50 grid, size of a really big town. Maybe not so bad?
As some might get funny ideas here - I agree with pein that property fences needs to be destroyable in some way. Not too easy a way since it would be undermined - but some way.
Edit: think pein mentioned the property fence issue in another thread

i mean you got 7 biome types
seems to be equal proprtion, just a bit of random on the positions
but in average case it's equal
that means only 4 out of 7 bioems are liveable cause of temperature
only 4/7 have sprigns on it
https://i.imgur.com/2loRxnQ.png
wondible made this picture
just take a look, grey is the swamp, i only see 5 decent green biomes
and only one with swamp near it
now it's decent to boom in a swamp then move, or try out other types
but any type f griefing is bad long term, i mean i don't even plan to play real cause it will just frustrate me
fences are broken
he modelled after rust twigs, which is just a frame in rust, but there they are easily broken
if it would be slow to get trough but upgradeable then people would need to take care of it, and that would make it better
i remember i spent 2 hours in a fenced town and even tho it was only one exit, people fixed every wall so you had to go around all the time

That's disgusting! Feeling like sitting this update out already

MultiLife · 2019-07-25 13:53:39

I wonder if people will just reroll until it's the best location in the map and meanwhile few try to make really dry locations work with constant lack of girls as most don't want to haul water and drill oil for their lives.

What I hope is that people will still rather work together than against, but if war sword loopholes and property fences remain as they are, I think griefers are gonna be like foxes in a chicken pen. We can't escape as they are either in your family or right next door.

Getting claustrophobic!

testo · 2019-07-25 16:25:25

RodneyC86 wrote:

pein wrote:
RodneyC86 wrote:
500 x 500 - is still a quarter million tiles though. That's 2,500 tiles per player. or a 50 x 50 grid, size of a really big town. Maybe not so bad?
As some might get funny ideas here - I agree with pein that property fences needs to be destroyable in some way. Not too easy a way since it would be undermined - but some way.
Edit: think pein mentioned the property fence issue in another thread

i mean you got 7 biome types
seems to be equal proprtion, just a bit of random on the positions
but in average case it's equal
that means only 4 out of 7 bioems are liveable cause of temperature
only 4/7 have sprigns on it
https://i.imgur.com/2loRxnQ.png
wondible made this picture
just take a look, grey is the swamp, i only see 5 decent green biomes
and only one with swamp near it
now it's decent to boom in a swamp then move, or try out other types
but any type f griefing is bad long term, i mean i don't even plan to play real cause it will just frustrate me
fences are broken
he modelled after rust twigs, which is just a frame in rust, but there they are easily broken
if it would be slow to get trough but upgradeable then people would need to take care of it, and that would make it better
i remember i spent 2 hours in a fenced town and even tho it was only one exit, people fixed every wall so you had to go around all the time
That's disgusting! Feeling like sitting this update out already

Yeah, Pein made it pretty clear on that picture. It is not about the number of tiles per player but the actual playability of each biomass. There is no chance of starting a town outside grassland/swamp because we need rope/branches/clay/adobe/water to even start the most basic food farming. Wich end up virtually killing badlands as a liveable place until you have shovel and some stuff. Prairie is doable but then again, with only rabbits around i´d say prairie is 50% liveable place. So we get 2/7 of the map at best.

A 500*500 map would feel more like a 3rd person PUBG micro island than a parenting and civilization game.

Goodbye exploration and free rope and food from the wild.

Goodbye reclamation (wild regeneration). A 500x500 map would mean 25 100X100 sectors, pretty sure no place would stay 8 hours unvisited.

Goodbye moving out to start a new camp.

Goodbye Eve running.

I don´t know where did you guys get the 500 square map thing but seems unplayable to me.

antking:]# · 2019-07-25 16:37:01

pien be carful of what you ask for because Jason might give it!!! I wouldn't check now but I think we are about to have a property fence update

Jason's words form unreleased:

Fixed so that property fence renewal times can be 'synced' together even if they aren't rickety yet, by allowing to be renewed at any time, giving you 60 more minutes until they become rickety. Thus, as soon as one part is rickety, you can walk around and renew the whole thing. Before you felt psychological pressure to constantly check the fence, because various pieces would become rickety at different times, and you couldn't repair each one until then. The renewed state is visually distinct and lasts 3 minutes. Also fixed the naming of one of the fence configurations, and fixed some duplicate sprites.

but I would check the unreleased change log any way I was horrified by what I saw!
https://edge.onetech.info/versions

Last edited by antking:]# (2019-07-25 16:45:23)

jasonrohrer · 2019-07-25 17:48:24

Pein, that's an interesting idea. We'll see if it happens. I mean, all it takes is one person walking near your shaky fence w/in the first 20 minutes and saying, "Hey, wait a minute..." 20 minutes is a long time for nobody to see a fence that bisects the entire map. Also, even if you get it built, there are plenty of counters. People can build gated sections around your fence that you don't have access to, which will cause that section to rot away. Then they open the gate and everyone can pass freely again.

BUT ANYWAY: my point is that this kind of crazy emergent stuff is what I'm looking to engender. These are long-arc stories.

Rodney, yeah, a bunch of people suggested this idea over time. It was definitely not my idea. Maybe you said it first. I can't remember.

Yes, a quarter million tiles is bigger than you think. You cannot visit the entire thing in one lifetime, for example.

I was going to make it 1000x1000, but I counted the tarry spots, and realized that people could theoretically survive for 35 days in there before they run out of pump water. That seemed like too long. Even 500x500 is theoretically more than a week.

My target is more like 3 days for the entire arc from nature to crash.

But if you all die in 1 day or something, I'll make it bigger tomorrow. Promise.

Grim_Arbiter · 2019-07-25 18:58:00

Stoked for this.

testo · 2019-07-25 20:19:43

jasonrohrer wrote:

Pein, that's an interesting idea. We'll see if it happens. I mean, all it takes is one person walking near your shaky fence w/in the first 20 minutes and saying, "Hey, wait a minute..." 20 minutes is a long time for nobody to see a fence that bisects the entire map. Also, even if you get it built, there are plenty of counters. People can build gated sections around your fence that you don't have access to, which will cause that section to rot away. Then they open the gate and everyone can pass freely again.
BUT ANYWAY: my point is that this kind of crazy emergent stuff is what I'm looking to engender. These are long-arc stories.
Rodney, yeah, a bunch of people suggested this idea over time. It was definitely not my idea. Maybe you said it first. I can't remember.

Yes, a quarter million tiles is bigger than you think. You cannot visit the entire thing in one lifetime, for example.
I was going to make it 1000x1000, but I counted the tarry spots, and realized that people could theoretically survive for 35 days in there before they run out of pump water. That seemed like too long. Even 500x500 is theoretically more than a week.
My target is more like 3 days for the entire arc from nature to crash.

But if you all die in 1 day or something, I'll make it bigger tomorrow. Promise.

- Theoretically is way off the real game. The number of tarry spots has never been an issue but how close to a town they are. I believe no town has survived for a week since forever anyways. Civilization collapse does´t come from lack of resources but from mass griefing and playerbase decline at low hours.

- I find it infuriating how far away from the actual gameplay some of your thoughts are.

jasonrohrer · 2019-07-25 23:39:44

This isn't about one village surviving.

This is about how long you can ALL survive in there, in villages that never get culled. It's about a long, server-wide arc. Playing the game in two days will be VERY different than playing the game tomorrow.

The apocalypse condition is this:

--No baby lives past age 15 for one solid hour.

I.e., everyone is starving to death, and there's no viable village left. You will experience exactly one hour of that. Then the world resets back to nature.

I imagine the above apocalypse trigger condition will only happen when you run out of oil or iron. My bet is that oil will run out first.

Do you remember how "which food you eat" doesn't really matter, and berry munching is just as good as some way more efficient food, because resources were effectively infinite? Not anymore.

Or of course if you mess everything up in some other way that I haven't thought of yet (burn all fertile soil with no compost piles around, so you can't grow ingredients for compost anymore).

I'm hoping that the initial arc will be 3-5 days long. Do you really think you'll all starve to death in 500x500 before 48 hours? Or do you think you'll just have a massive war right away?

If you can predict exactly what will happen.... well.... you're way more prescient than I am!

RodneyC86 · 2019-07-25 23:52:18

jasonrohrer wrote:

This isn't about one village surviving.
This is about how long you can ALL survive in there, in villages that never get culled. It's about a long, server-wide arc. Playing the game in two days will be VERY different than playing the game tomorrow.

The apocalypse condition is this:
--No baby lives past age 15 for one solid hour.

I.e., everyone is starving to death, and there's no viable village left. You will experience exactly one hour of that. Then the world resets back to nature.
I imagine the above apocalypse trigger condition will only happen when you run out of oil or iron. My bet is that oil will run out first.
Do you remember how "which food you eat" doesn't really matter, and berry munching is just as good as some way more efficient food, because resources were effectively infinite? Not anymore.

Or of course if you mess everything up in some other way that I haven't thought of yet (burn all fertile soil with no compost piles around, so you can't grow ingredients for compost anymore).
I'm hoping that the initial arc will be 3-5 days long. Do you really think you'll all starve to death in 500x500 before 48 hours? Or do you think you'll just have a massive war right away?
If you can predict exactly what will happen.... well.... you're way more prescient than I am!

I think a king of the hill scenario is the most likely outcome. Scarcity usually does promote violence.
I think though, it's possible people will band up in small groups and survive in very small self sustainable forts like what pein is experimenting with - a small homestead. And I expect them to push out or murder excess children - infanticide is an actual thing in really desperate times.

Also what if the issue that everyone can basically go back to where they died the next life and continue? I thought that was one of your tenets.

Laskara · 2019-07-26 00:16:20

we're all, on the discord at least, extremely certain this is the "eve hell cage match" update and that it will literally just be a fortnite simulator where most people are murdering eachother for limited resources in the shrunk area.

Jk Howling · 2019-07-26 00:18:00

jasonrohrer wrote:

If you can predict exactly what will happen.... well.... you're way more prescient than I am!

Or everyone else just understands the game and the playerbase way more than you lmao. Literally anyone who's played in the last week can easily tell you what's going to happen:

Griefing. A lot of griefing. Literal hell enclosed within a 500x500 inescapable cage.
I can't wait!

Then again, you like griefing and consider it a very necessary part of the game, so I'm sure you'll consider it a rousing success when we all die out mere hours into this rather than days due to griefers wreaking havoc, dying, and respawning constantly

But don't worry, even if you respond to this, it'll just be to tell me "but the update hasn't come out yet u dont know that" or something silly. Just further proof that you've become so blind to your own game and playerbase and didn't see this coming from miles away, while everybody else did, ig. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

Last edited by Jk Howling (2019-07-26 00:22:44)

DarkDrak · 2019-07-26 00:22:07

I bet 12 bowls of berries that the area will become uninhabitable in under 2 hours

RodneyC86 · 2019-07-26 00:55:59

DarkDrak wrote:

I bet 12 bowls of berries that the area will become uninhabitable in under 2 hours

I wager a basket of mutton pies there will be an angry mob on forums and steam within a day as well.

Honestly, when I suggested a finite world, I expect the finite part to mean enough to last a month or two, or at least an entire real life season. It should have a more epic proportion than a mini diorama of only a few days.

Edit: Epic but not infinite

Last edited by RodneyC86 (2019-07-26 00:56:24)

Carrot-Seedling · 2019-07-26 01:39:48

Tell DarkDrak he wins.
Love,
The Future People Who Have Seen The Update.

pein · 2019-07-26 06:12:26

jasonrohrer wrote:

This isn't about one village surviving.
This is about how long you can ALL survive in there, in villages that never get culled. It's about a long, server-wide arc. Playing the game in two days will be VERY different than playing the game tomorrow.

The apocalypse condition is this:
--No baby lives past age 15 for one solid hour.

I.e., everyone is starving to death, and there's no viable village left. You will experience exactly one hour of that. Then the world resets back to nature.
I imagine the above apocalypse trigger condition will only happen when you run out of oil or iron. My bet is that oil will run out first.
Do you remember how "which food you eat" doesn't really matter, and berry munching is just as good as some way more efficient food, because resources were effectively infinite? Not anymore.

Or of course if you mess everything up in some other way that I haven't thought of yet (burn all fertile soil with no compost piles around, so you can't grow ingredients for compost anymore).
I'm hoping that the initial arc will be 3-5 days long. Do you really think you'll all starve to death in 500x500 before 48 hours? Or do you think you'll just have a massive war right away?
If you can predict exactly what will happen.... well.... you're way more prescient than I am!

yeah it isnt
cause it's simple math
a good eve will always seek perfect conditions, and will need a decent daughter
early encounters are a mess

basically to team up you need to understand language, so no reason logically to keep others alive, but if you kill them they spawn to you
so basically only coordinated players will strive for a bit, until other coordinated players kill them

when the whole world is tiny and everyone can back to a place, it's just that, revenge raids back and forth

even 30 players or even 5 eves with 3-4 kids is a mess

it's been like 8 hours when i last time checked forums and basically there are like 5 topics complaining about it before i even join in

different is good, im sure it's different mentality than usual, it's just, isn't viable even for 24 hours
if people know that blocking off stuff will be final, then it's a blow to the whole world to do so

reminds me of the game defly.io
where helicopters draw dots and lines to control territories
the basic strategy is to go around and control corners, maybe 1/4 of map
people go full tank and make several walls to defend a zone
change is slow
the teamed up players specialize on building, and the helpers on destroying, and they basically take everyone out to control more space

it's ohol we talking about, decaying baskets send people in depression infinite griefing on finite map wont make one big community filled with love toward each other

Last edited by pein (2019-07-26 06:12:59)

ollj · 2019-07-26 10:51:17

and then everyone just rushed bows and truned all straight shafts into stakes, to make the manhunt easier.

Last edited by ollj (2019-07-26 10:54:20)

One Hour One Life Forums

#1 2019-07-25 07:19:32

Jason, before you limit the map, change how fences work, maybe graves

#2 2019-07-25 07:38:35

Re: Jason, before you limit the map, change how fences work, maybe graves

#3 2019-07-25 07:43:33

Re: Jason, before you limit the map, change how fences work, maybe graves

#4 2019-07-25 10:46:05

Re: Jason, before you limit the map, change how fences work, maybe graves

#5 2019-07-25 10:52:34

Re: Jason, before you limit the map, change how fences work, maybe graves

#6 2019-07-25 11:32:50

Re: Jason, before you limit the map, change how fences work, maybe graves

#7 2019-07-25 13:08:18

Re: Jason, before you limit the map, change how fences work, maybe graves

#8 2019-07-25 13:32:27

Re: Jason, before you limit the map, change how fences work, maybe graves

#9 2019-07-25 13:53:39

Re: Jason, before you limit the map, change how fences work, maybe graves

#10 2019-07-25 16:25:25

Re: Jason, before you limit the map, change how fences work, maybe graves

#11 2019-07-25 16:37:01

Re: Jason, before you limit the map, change how fences work, maybe graves

#12 2019-07-25 17:48:24

Re: Jason, before you limit the map, change how fences work, maybe graves

#13 2019-07-25 18:58:00

Re: Jason, before you limit the map, change how fences work, maybe graves

#14 2019-07-25 20:19:43

Re: Jason, before you limit the map, change how fences work, maybe graves

#15 2019-07-25 23:39:44

Re: Jason, before you limit the map, change how fences work, maybe graves

#16 2019-07-25 23:52:18

Re: Jason, before you limit the map, change how fences work, maybe graves

#17 2019-07-26 00:16:20

Re: Jason, before you limit the map, change how fences work, maybe graves

#18 2019-07-26 00:18:00

Re: Jason, before you limit the map, change how fences work, maybe graves

#19 2019-07-26 00:22:07

Re: Jason, before you limit the map, change how fences work, maybe graves

#20 2019-07-26 00:55:59

Re: Jason, before you limit the map, change how fences work, maybe graves

#21 2019-07-26 01:39:48

Re: Jason, before you limit the map, change how fences work, maybe graves

#22 2019-07-26 06:12:26

Re: Jason, before you limit the map, change how fences work, maybe graves

#23 2019-07-26 10:51:17

Re: Jason, before you limit the map, change how fences work, maybe graves

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