Property Fences (shoutout to Burak Song)

BloomingDaisy · 2019-07-24 19:38:48

I actually liked the idea of property fences a lot and when they were first introduced I got really into coming up with ideas for businesses that I could make in a property fence enclosure but I've found this to be nearly impossible now as people assume I'm making a trap or a base to grief from, and I get where they're coming from.

So in this last life I played my name was Arhaam Song and I lived an entirely peaceful existence. I never touched a single weapon, not even a knife to cut bread. I collected yummy foods with a cart until I had two babies. As I got older and felt my life coming to an end I searched for my daughter to give her my crown. Unable to find her I turned to the person in the village I hoped could fill my shoes, Burak Song, my niece. Burak had built a large enclosure south of the town and was behaving responsibly for thirty or so years so I figured she would be a good candidate. I walk up to her gate and her daughter let me in, I walked up to Burak crown in hand and what did she do? She shanked me with a knife while screaming that I'll never speak to her kids again.

My question is... is there anyone out there using property fences who isn't a sociopath??? Stop getting all territorial and stabby, that's not what makes this game special, its all about the human interactions, at least it is for me.

Tarr · 2019-07-24 19:43:58

BloomingDaisy wrote:

I actually liked the idea of property fences a lot and when they were first introduced I got really into coming up with ideas for businesses that I could make in a property fence enclosure but I've found this to be nearly impossible now as people assume I'm making a trap or a base to grief from, and I get where they're coming from.
So in this last life I played my name was Arhaam Song and I lived an entirely peaceful existence. I never touched a single weapon, not even a knife to cut bread. I collected yummy foods with a cart until I had two babies. As I got older and felt my life coming to an end I searched for my daughter to give her my crown. Unable to find her I turned to the person in the village I hoped could fill my shoes, Burak Song, my niece. Burak had built a large enclosure south of the town and was behaving responsibly for thirty or so years so I figured she would be a good candidate. I walk up to her gate and her daughter let me in, I walked up to Burak crown in hand and what did she do? She shanked me with a knife while screaming that I'll never speak to her kids again.
My question is... is there anyone out there using property fences who isn't a sociopath??? Stop getting all territorial and stabby, that's not what makes this game special, its all about the human interactions, at least it is for me.

I've used them a few times personally to make private fishing holes mostly so I wasn't using up the towns berries/carrots/sheep for shrimping and I don't think I've ever had one of these kicked over since it's a pretty niche thing and probably signals the player isn't just hiding shit. I know last time I tried to put up a large gated area with a bunch of animals I collected someone pushed it over but as soon as I left the gate open and killed the dude no one had any problem with it since I was making sure to give access to everyone.

Private property is a problem because the people who put up fences generally just start hoarding shit within the fence which leads to people just kicking fences over without hesitation and I can't really blame them too much. Who wants to let the idiot start taking resources from town so he can have a baby milkweed farm he doesn't do anything with? I would assume most people would be more open to letting people fence off their own areas if people within the fences weren't so greedy or the fenced property isn't a hoarders pen.

ollj · 2019-07-25 00:15:41

BloomingDaisy wrote:

My question is... is there anyone out there using property fences who isn't a sociopath???

Of course not! they are all sociopaths. (*)

Its not a matter of property vs community.
the system is ridiculously vicious for 2 reasons:
- its an opt out system
- its not even an opt out system, because it is ALWAYS build in secrecy and ALLWAYS enforced by threatening to murder oponents.

but jason "fixed" property fenches, by chaning the visuals of them and by maing their decay slightly more random.
but those changes duid not affect the 2 most recent apocalypses significantly.

---

(*)=
well, property fenches where used to completely block access to the 2 most recent apocalypse endtowers for a time span of 20ish hours each.
and i hear reports of people claiming, they whitnessed multiple towns to be completely surrounded by gateless property fenches, which is just pathethic, as this only works if NOONE of the base leaves the base for long enough to notice this fenche being build.

i also use proposed property fenches to lure bears, as no bear ever steps on one. this can work extremely well, but it is more likly prone to premature failures. its a tricky thing to attempt and is often not wotth trying.

thats not necessarily sociopathic. its just plain silly. this game is whack.

Last edited by ollj (2019-07-25 00:18:39)

Jk Howling · 2019-07-25 00:36:07

Burak appears to have been my great grandmother from my last life as Rami Song. I think I saw the large enclosure you were talking about, but never received access to it. Instead, my mother showed me a much smaller area about ten tiles away that she'd claimed herself. Inside, there were maybe 3-4 berry bushes, 5 milkweed plants, a couple pies, and a few various tools [knife, file, bowsaw blade, a few arrows, a hoe for planting, a bowl].

I'd never worked with property fences myself, but rolled with it when she gave me access. It was kinda nice having that little space set away tbh. I used the milkweed to make a bow and shoot a nearby bear someone had let loose, gave my knife to someone who had a backpack and was working on rubber for the pump, and brought back the file and bowsaw blade to the smith to reforge into steel bars since we had multiple files/bowsaws around already.

I didn't spend much time within the small plot, in full honesty, but it did come in handy a few times. The milkweed was nice to have as well, and I picked/replanted a few times, giving the rope to one person for a bucket and another to fetch a cow calf. The two pies and handful of berry bushes helped, since the town was having water problems, though I would've just kept them in my backpack if I'd actually had one.

I even managed to act quickly and dispatch a griefer that'd killed two people thanks to having my bow and arrows stored in the place already. Ironically enough, one of his victims was saved by the owners of the larger fenced in area, who had a bowl of pads and some thread in their plot for just such an occasion. There had been a public bowl of them as well, but ofc someone dumped them..

Overall, it wasn't a bad experience tbh. I think they can be useful for some things, like storing pads/thread and weapons, and items if you don't have a backpack, and sometimes for growing milkweed. Also could be handy for storing pelts/thread to make a backpack/clothing since those items are so often swiped by other players x.x

But I think their use also widely depends on the player that owns it, and how willing they are to share and work with the other players.

Last edited by Jk Howling (2019-07-25 00:36:43)

seth · 2019-07-25 02:24:17

This is kinda interesting - looking at how property functions currently it is a really big investment - and therefore is only worth doing if you're going to get something really big from it. This trade-off calculus means that yeah, if you're going to build property, and you're not just role-playing something, then the best way to make it worth while is to grab whatever you can and hoard it.

It's actually surprising how long it takes to set up a property - probably because ropes are not exactly hanging around not being used, and property sticks are not used often either. When I have messed with property (not hording, more roleplaying a mother passing down property) i would spend time putting down fences, then more time orienting them properly (would love if they could self orient), and then yet more time building gates and such.. It's not really practical to do in the midst of caring for children, so probably better to do as a father.

But yeah, if you actually have property, what then? There's nothing inside of it, so that means either trying to build some stuff, or just taking stuff from the common space and claiming it for your own.

What's weird about that, is we clearly don't have that relationship with private property in real life (mostly). I just arrived at home, and I feel at peace - it's quiet, no one will bother me, I can relax - turn off my social brain, turn off my safety brain - I don't have to worry about getting hit by cars or being aware of my surroundings. It's like my stress meter goes down when I get home.

I don't have to buy food here - it's all stored.. I don't have to enter into any financial transaction to get my needs met. That's maybe what home is about. I can invite people over and we can hang out for as long as we want.

Not saying that's what it's gotta be like in game, but it is weird that the way the game is right now, private property = hording.

RodneyC86 · 2019-07-25 11:08:11

Not sure why you think all property fence owners are sociopathic OP - that's a very big leap to make to jump to a conclusion. By that definition everyone in real life is a sociopath.

In game, private property as it stands is just too clunky to use for practical applications. A window/counter for passing objects through but not allowing players to pass can facilitate having a warehouse to keep things safe - though a trustworthy players must be running it.

JKHowling mentioned pads/needles/thread. These can be stored in a very small property area for safety - but again, you need a trusted medic and have him get an apprectice to take over his role in next generations.

Seth actually brought up an interesting point - which is that exactly your toon in game doesn't really need a private place to unwind and relax, or to get safety - or to sleep -OHOL characters don't sleep! There goes the need for shelters and protection. Not sure how this is ever fixable though. I think maybe...? Jason got it wrong when he made property fences just a way to own things. Property should be first a private area for other reasons first maybe?

seth · 2019-07-25 11:50:57

RodneyC86 wrote:

Property should be first a private area for other reasons first maybe?

This made me think of something..
It's a fairly contrived idea, but the genetic scoring has shown me that sometimes it's okay to create a motivation, and maybe it leads to something else..

What if warmth had to do with proximity to close family members? So to recharge your warmth, you wanted to be by a fire, and just be around those who were closest to you? (Perhaps it had a multiplier effect not found in a public fire)

What if the affect of food was improved by eating only with close family members? They say people who eat with friends are happier..

This could be scaled up and down to see what would be optimal. But I imagine the outcome would be that families would gravitate towards some private home time, before going back into the world to work. And it would be good for the civilization for everyone to have their own fireplaces, because they would collectively take up less food in the long run.

The most successful civilizations would be those that created private property to optimize their food.

ah.. I see what this gets at: Self care. We optimize for a lot of survivalist things in this game, but in the civilizations we live in, we're used to taking a break from it all. You do better work when you've had some time to really relax, to spend time with those closest to you.

There is a need for family time that is recharged, and has a real benefit. Yes, once you have your private family space, maybe you decide to build a baking business - but maybe you don't. Either way it would still be worth it.

Okay that's the idea.. Let's do some imagining of how it might play out:
In the beginning the effect would probably just be multiple fire places.. and each immediate family would try to keep others away. But there would be a good incentive for others to come near, because they'd get a benefit. Hmm.. So likely there would be yelling - stay away from my fire! And early on, that might be it.. Though early on, you probably wouldn't be able to have a lot fireplaces anyways. But overtime, you might see neighborhoods form - they aren't at war with each other, but they mutually benefit from having separate fireplaces.

People who don't know would mess it up a lot, and after the yelling, the knives would come out. And people might be cool with this kind of killing - others who mess up a fire's warmth with their presence are messing this up for the rest!

So that might be it.. Maybe it would never become useful for the fire to be surrounded by a private property - maybe it'll just become a social norm backed by knives? ..Of course this just brings more griefing and violence into our communities..

To add another contrivance - maybe the bonus only takes affect when it is in a fenced in land, and there are only 4 or five close family members around. That way, this is a kind of gameplay that happens later into civilization, would prevent the added griefing as the effect only occurs once private property has already been created, and it represents the psychological need for safety.

Like if my house had no doors, I would probably still be okay most of the time, but I would know that at any time someone could disrupt my rest - and that itself would have a negative effect on my recharge time.

Ah so this is the need at stake here: Privacy

Privacy and self care.

Okay that's all I got. Fun thought experiment.

arkajalka · 2019-07-25 13:12:59

Dont see any reason to use fences. They dont work for protection cause the danger may just birth inside the fences. Stab stab stab. If you need to work in peace you can just go few screens outta town and youll have your solitude. People who roam tend not to be geedy bastards that f up your works.

Just a tool of grieffers or even worse grieffing roleplayers.

Stab stab shoot shoot for property fence people. Even better grow a wild piggy into their penn if you ever get a chance.

Saolin · 2019-07-25 16:35:26

Some problems with property fences:

1. It takes a long time to set up your own property if you want to make something more than just a sheltered milkweed farm. You don't have the time in one life to make anything even close to self-sustaining. By the time your property is starting to come together, you will be dying soon, so personally you won't get much real use from it. You can pass it along to your kids but...

2. The people you are keeping out with a property fence are the same people you're allowing in (through birth). Why keep anyone out if there's no difference between those who are inside from those outside. The person you want outside the most could be born to you inside your walls.

3. In general the property owner is going to rely on an outer community being present in order to have access to everything they need. You'll be taking tools, water, etc. in order to set up your property since you don't have enough time in your life to make all these things yourself. By setting up your own private property you are being a leech on the community, as you are increasing the communities resource cost while keeping the benefit all to yourself. As such it is in the best long term interest of the community to eliminate a player doing so.

antking:]# · 2019-07-25 16:44:21

I think most people like the idea of a property fence but don't like the property fence it's self.

like the idea of being able to "claim" something as your own is a step to ward a modern society but having magical unbreakable fences is just stupid!

like most things in the game it needs to be fixed (sadly)

hopefully Jason is lisaning

oh wait:
Fixed so that property fence renewal times can be 'synced' together even if they aren't rickety yet, by allowing to be renewed at any time, giving you 60 more minutes until they become rickety. Thus, as soon as one part is rickety, you can walk around and renew the whole thing. Before you felt psychological pressure to constantly check the fence, because various pieces would become rickety at different times, and you couldn't repair each one until then. The renewed state is visually distinct and lasts 3 minutes. Also fixed the naming of one of the fence configurations, and fixed some duplicate sprites.

Jason's own words.
https://edge.onetech.info/versions

Last edited by antking:]# (2019-07-25 16:44:58)

Solbusaur · 2019-07-25 17:00:43

I've made a few cow ranches with them, and once I made a prison where I starved bad children. I almost regret it, but the kids deserved it

One Hour One Life Forums

#1 2019-07-24 19:38:48

Property Fences (shoutout to Burak Song)

#2 2019-07-24 19:43:58

Re: Property Fences (shoutout to Burak Song)

#3 2019-07-25 00:15:41

Re: Property Fences (shoutout to Burak Song)

#4 2019-07-25 00:36:07

Re: Property Fences (shoutout to Burak Song)

#5 2019-07-25 02:24:17

Re: Property Fences (shoutout to Burak Song)

#6 2019-07-25 11:08:11

Re: Property Fences (shoutout to Burak Song)

#7 2019-07-25 11:50:57

Re: Property Fences (shoutout to Burak Song)

#8 2019-07-25 13:12:59

Re: Property Fences (shoutout to Burak Song)

#9 2019-07-25 16:35:26

Re: Property Fences (shoutout to Burak Song)

#10 2019-07-25 16:44:21

Re: Property Fences (shoutout to Burak Song)

#11 2019-07-25 17:00:43

Re: Property Fences (shoutout to Burak Song)

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