Solution To the Number Problem

Spoonwood · 2019-06-06 16:32:31

The number problem is that you can't type numerals in the game. Cookie recently made a post on this issue: https://onehouronelife.com/forums/viewtopic.php?id=6858 Whatever posted a link to this thread started by FutureBird: https://onehouronelife.com/forums/viewtopic.php?id=5523 Jason expressed no interest in addressing this issue. I do NOT think there exists a need for a utility program.

Memory systems have already given us a means to solve the above problem in game. We basically encode each numeral as a letter. I'll put an example of such a system below.

So, when is someone saying a number instead of an English word? All letters used to stand for numerals are consonants. So, if you see a string of text meant to represent a number, it will be a string of consonants. No words in English are purely consonants (at least none to my knowledge), or at least they could get removed from game chat easily.

Here is such a system:

0 - Z

1 - T

2 - M

3 - M

4 - R

5 - L

6 - J

7 - K

8 - G

9 - P

The following mnemoics might help with remembering each letter.

ZERO starts with Z, so Z stands for/is 0.

T has one downward stroke, so T is 1.

N in lower case is 'n' which has two downward strokes, so N is 2.

M in lowercase is 'm' which has three downward strokes which reach the bottom, so M is 3.

FOUR ends with R, so R is four. (multiple sources for all of these)

5 fingers on a hand with the thumb out forms an "L" (p. 108 of The Memory Book by Lorayne and Lucas published in 1974 says this). So, L is 5.

J and 6 are almost mirror images, so J is 6 (same source as the above).

K can get made with two 7s, so K is 7 (same source as the above).

Lower case g with an extra hook is 8, so G is 8.

Rotate P and bend the bottom stroke a little and you can get a 9, so P is 9.

Examples: "WE NEED TN LIMESTONE" means we need 12 limestone. "NEED RM IRON" means need 43 iron. "COOK AT LEAST G PIES" means cook at least 8 pies. "MAKE M HOES" means make three hoes.

This idea comes from memory improvement systems which standardly use a more complex system to translate numerals into letters (the major system... see the aforementioned book by Lucas and Lorayne or on the web... here for example: https://artofmemory.com/wiki/Major_System). How to use a major system effectively is a more complex topic, which falls outside the scope of this post. The major system concept has existed since the 17th century and has precursors that it built upon.

Last edited by Spoonwood (2019-06-06 22:09:24)

futurebird · 2019-06-06 17:11:05

"COOK AT LEAST V PIES"

already means cook at least 5 pies... not eight.

lychee · 2019-06-06 17:32:32

Roman numerals?

Spoonwood · 2019-06-06 17:48:05

futurebird wrote:

"COOK AT LEAST V PIES"
already means cook at least 5 pies... not eight.

I'm confident you were joking (though I could be wrong on that).

The only issue is people taking up such a system, isn't it?

Edit: There's no reason to assume that "COOK AT LEAST V PIES" means cook at least 5 pies, because it's already unconventional to use roman numerals in the middle of speech. People might believe that means five pies, if that's what you mean, but that's also a clue then as to such a person who doesn't understand the system and can use help.

Last edited by Spoonwood (2019-06-06 17:56:35)

Spoonwood · 2019-06-06 17:49:05

lychee wrote:

Roman numerals?

I hope you're joking.

futurebird · 2019-06-06 18:05:54

I don't see how this is better than roman numerals which people already use.

Solbusaur · 2019-06-06 18:10:42

People use roman numerals already, and understand them (mostly). Your system is going to take time to learn, so I don't see why it's a joke

BerrypickerAF · 2019-06-06 18:15:03

In case anyone would like to brush up on roman numerals: http://mathworld.wolfram.com/RomanNumerals.html

Spoonwood · 2019-06-06 19:07:05

OMG... mathematics postdoc doesn't understand how an alternative way of encoding the content of the hindu-arabic numerals is superior to roman numerals. We are all doomed.

Sukallinen · 2019-06-06 19:17:21

I too do fail to see how topics suggested numbering system would be better. Might be just me though
--
Me next me next !

Spoonwood · 2019-06-06 19:32:29

Solbusaur wrote:

People use roman numerals already, and understand them (mostly). Your system is going to take time to learn, so I don't see why it's a joke

O. K. Someone tries to say 1 using Roman Numerals and it comes out something like "I MORE KILN". "I" is a word in itself. Someone says "IV MORE IRON" there's a question... did someone mean '4 more iron' or did they forget an 'E' and almost said "IVE MORE IRON" which for all I know could mean something like "IVE GOT MORE IRON", and then it never comes to town. Saying something like 'VIII MORE PIES" also takes more time than "G MORE PIES". Say something like "MG IRON" takes more time than "XXXVIII IRON". This system is more concise, and based on hindu-arabic numerals which I do think more commonly known. BerrypickerAF posted a link for people to brush up on Roman Numerals, but that won't cover the children playing this game who haven't yet learned it in school, and I think that they can learn the above more quickly than roman numerals. Or the adults who never learned Roman Numerals. Additionally, BerrypickerAF did NOT post a link to brush up on the concept of a base ten system. Because people already understand it.

Additionally, you can do arithmetic in this system more easily than in Roman numerals. Even if you translate each numeral to a form that you're more use to, this system has a one to one correlation with base ten hindu-arabic numerals. Trying to add XIII and IX results in XXII, and who knows any sort of pattern to simplify doing arithmetic? With the above system that's TM and B, and (M + B) = TN. So, T carries over and we add T and T, yielding N. Thus, we get NN. Which leads to the same sorts of patterns that students learn when doing arithmetic in school (or least can learn).

That said, sure, this system will take a bit to learn. It has several advantages over roman numerals, but you might be correct to think that even knowing about those advantages people will take up roman numerals instead and try to make that popular in the game instead. That's on them, and their choice. You might have more insight into social dynamics than I do.

Last edited by Spoonwood (2019-06-06 19:34:12)

Solbusaur · 2019-06-06 20:51:03

tbh if it was a short number I'd just type it out. "One more kiln" and "Four more iron"
Also the time it would take for such a system to become common knowledge would take too long. You do you, but I'm going to stick with roman numerals

PeaGirl · 2019-06-06 21:04:41

No point in using that, when you can implement roman numeral system for more complex numeral situations

pein · 2019-06-06 21:32:42

i mean is ok but you just used small letters
we are yelling in ohol

0123456789
OIZEASGTBQ
maybe

IRON VEIN -ISO -BO
is shorter but both parties need to know the conversion formula
and roman numerals would be
IRON VEIN -CL -XXC
i don't even remember how that works

edited 6-G and 9-Q

Last edited by pein (2019-06-07 01:10:45)

Spoonwood · 2019-06-06 21:43:17

pein wrote:

i mean is ok but you just used small letters
we are yelling in ohol

You're right. I'll edit it.

pein wrote:

0123456789
OIZEASCTBG

How did you select each letter?

Also, if someone says 'EAST' or spells out some word, is that a number or a word?

Spoonwood · 2019-06-06 22:11:18

I've edited this post and included mnemoics within the post instead of linking to an external source for the mnemoics. If you read it before, looking at the above again might be worth a second look. I'll add that learning the above (in combination with some other memory improvement techniques) might help you to remember long numbers more easily. The major system is old and has worked for people for centuries.

Spoonwood · 2019-06-06 22:58:50

Here's a memory champion explaining a similar sort of system: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nJGMXUJCB-4

pein · 2019-06-06 23:10:58

i selected based on similarities
sometimes people use 4 in place of A
and 5 in place of S
E is just reverse 3
small b would be 6 but no other half open letter uppercase so maybe c is most similar
7 and T are quite alike and same for B and 8

maybe G for 6 and Q for 9

but you got to explain the system if they don't know, so if its based on a mutual agreement then even a
QWERTYUIOP is better cause that's right below the numbers and only differs a bit for german or french keyboards

140-QRP
80-IP
but saying ONEFOURTY EIGHTY SW can be told as adult so is still faster than explaining that each letter under the numbers will be a number and what kind of keyboard you got, oh you got Z in place of Y cause you are german, then Z is Y and means 6

Spoonwood · 2019-06-06 23:50:34

pein wrote:

i selected based on similarities
sometimes people use 4 in place of A
and 5 in place of S
E is just reverse 3
small b would be 6 but no other half open letter uppercase so maybe c is most similar
7 and T are quite alike and same for B and 8
maybe G for 6 and Q for 9

Interesting. Makes sense.

pein wrote:

QWERTYUIOP is better cause that's right below the numbers and only differs a bit for german or french keyboards

It does have the advantage of being closer to the keyboard, so no memory is needed. But, it has the disadvantage that words become possible to spell. I don't know if that's enough of a problem though to outweigh the benefit of having a system that probably can get communicated with a greater number of people.

Valareos · 2019-06-07 00:27:17

Spoonwood wrote:

pein wrote:
QWERTYUIOP is better cause that's right below the numbers and only differs a bit for german or french keyboards
It does have the advantage of being closer to the keyboard, so no memory is needed. But, it has the disadvantage that words become possible to spell. I don't know if that's enough of a problem though to outweigh the benefit of having a system that probably can get communicated with a greater number of people.

I'd love to go to loc 56032,48534 and see if there is a library there.

Spoonwood · 2019-06-07 00:55:58

Valareos wrote:

Spoonwood wrote:
pein wrote:
QWERTYUIOP is better cause that's right below the numbers and only differs a bit for german or french keyboards
It does have the advantage of being closer to the keyboard, so no memory is needed. But, it has the disadvantage that words become possible to spell. I don't know if that's enough of a problem though to outweigh the benefit of having a system that probably can get communicated with a greater number of people.
I'd love to go to loc 56032,48534 and see if there is a library there.

I had to type it out, but it was easy to figure out what you meant!

pein · 2019-06-07 01:09:43

dunno, mostly i use the decimals cause no point telling that the vein is 186 away
they still need to aproxximate or have the coord tracker or hetuw mode

also no point of anything above 2k cause you cant do that multiple times a life
like around 700 tiles i did 4 times a life escorting people ,thats ok if straight
a baby girl grows to woman
once i had arabbit hunters coords so we went 270 degree circle to find the city and she had like 4 kids in meantime, was no genetics that time but turned out to be all creol girls in a white family

so i cant really see a situation that i need to be specific like that
i need numbers like 50-60-60... maybe up to 300 when on horse exploring more
same with numbers like 1242, might as wel ljsut say 1200 , a city is visible for like 200 away, even a smal lcmap has tracks 50 away

if you really want to be specific might as well invite to discord

the only way you know coordinates now is a city with a bell or 2 to triangulate or hetuw mode and bells

home markers actually don't show right direction until last 1000
diagonal is 1.4 longer than a straight direction but going North then west is 2x instead of 1.4 of going Nort then West
for example Painter town was 4k north and 1k East
i ran with horse 2.6km and became infertile
and another 1.4 where i could have just slide to right a bit for the whole road and save 600 tiles
not much in the comparation, maybe 2-3 minutes
that takes well over 30 min if you eat wild food and you are naked so i wouldn't even try to go more than 2000 now

ofc you could use a modifier to signal that it's a number and not a word
like #QWP# would be the 120
not fully sure on special characters, i know "!" works and stands out a bit
but i think the similar letters method is a bit better #IZO# for 120 quite looks like 120
also if you round the decimals then you end up with easier to associate numbers
like #ZAO# for 240 or #ETO# for 370 or #AQO# for 490

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Solution To the Number Problem

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