Snowballs are really overpowered.

futurebird · 2019-06-05 14:41:22

I just got killed by an eve and her kid who were using snow balls on everyone. I could not figure out how to fight back and didn't dare take out the knife because then I'd drop it. Since you can't "dance" to avoid a snowball it's pretty easy to keep anyone from using weapons.

Granted if I could remember to use shift I might have hit her but I'm not good at PVP just don't have those kinds of skills I move kind of slowly and the same was true for most people in the village.

It seems a bit odd that snowballs are more powerful than other weapons.

Anyway our whole village is dead now.

futurebird · 2019-06-05 14:43:43

Any way this game really pissed me off. I just wanted to farm milkweed and work on the town and there were just a lot of annoying people. Someone put a bear in the sheep pen, I had the same Eve Spam baby getting born to me over and over. Then this Eve with the snowballs.

Doing something about it just felt like a huge chore and distraction. I don't think I've ever found snowballs fun or amusing. Not once ever.

futurebird · 2019-06-05 14:46:16

When I think about it it might not have been an issue if snow would... you know *run out* like everything else. Why is something so annoying infinite?

Tarr · 2019-06-05 14:46:44

This shows the general flaw of why having auto aim on ranged weapons is a bad idea. Your only option to fight back against snowballs is to not be hit in the first place. Once someone lands the first snowball they'll be able to hit every other snowball due to you moving slower than them and as you witnessed you can't do anything about it after that point.

Snowballs have been the best weapon in game since they were released as being both ranged and disarming someone is an incredibly useful ability. Stun locking players out of doing anything is super overpowered but worse yet snowballs are unlimited.

I really feel like there should be a nonlethal weapon like snowballs with some sort of cost so you can't just spam someone to death like you've experienced. Also remove auto-aim as it cheapens the effect of ranged combat in a game that at least had a base skill level to dealing with others.

Last edited by Tarr (2019-06-05 15:15:28)

futurebird · 2019-06-05 14:59:35

Why is auto aim a problem with bows though? You can't really spam a bow.

If you could only make like 4 snowballs from a drift then they replenished slowly that would sort most of the issues. That and make snowbalss not auto aim.

Tarr · 2019-06-05 15:04:07

Why should the counter play to anything just be to run away? At least with melee the counter is to go grab a snowball. Ranged is a game of chicken to see who clicked first or just avoid the other player 100% of the time.

Why should ranged weapons have auto aim? Bows already had the ability added so they won't shoot arrows if it would miss (thus ending the arrow deletion problem they had.) If you would "miss" with a bow you just don't do anything vs where melee classically had you just drop the weapon.

futurebird · 2019-06-05 15:04:55

I'm so bummed out now. I don't understand why people are jerks like that. I just wonder what I did to deserve it.

Tarr · 2019-06-05 15:06:51

When there's absolutely no way to punish people for being asshats then you get into this situation. Ohol is a game for griefers to prey on people who just want to do other stuff so you're getting the brunt of it.

Solbusaur · 2019-06-05 15:14:44

Tarr wrote:

This shows the general flaw of why having auto aim on ranged weapons is a bad idea. Your only option to fight back against snowballs is to not be hit in the first place. One someone lands the first snowball they'll be able to hit every other snowball due to you moving slower than them and as you witnessed you can't do anything about it after that point.

If Jason changes ranged combat so it's easier to miss, I'll be very happy. Anyone who has a bow/snowball is a major threat, given that they have the range advantage and aim advantage

futurebird · 2019-06-05 15:19:17

IDK know enough about combat to know what changes would be good. But it's not fun to feel like you can't do anything or learn anything to prevent this. I'm certain everyone else in my family was not having any fun during that attack. (the bear in the sheep pen was at least amusing....) So there were two people having a good time and about 8 feeling like helpless idiots.

I was please to see most people seemed to know enough not to pull a knife on her. So there was that.

I guess I'll fence off the snow drifts. What a waste of time and how tragic for those of us who like ice cream.

Spoonwood · 2019-06-05 15:22:20

futurebird wrote:

I'm so bummed out now. I don't understand why people are jerks like that. I just wonder what I did to deserve it.

Sadism exists. Many acts of sadism are illegal in the real world or are more likely to have serious consequences that the sadist cares about than in game. So, people play games to fulfill their sadistic tendencies.

I will note though that the griefer had a child. It still could be sadism with a desire for someone else to join them in their sadism. Or, and I think this less likely, it could be an attempt to remove a lineage from the area, which sounds like egotism... sort of like "MY family must be the only one who exists here." Wars and egotism go hand in hand don't they?

WalrusesConquer · 2019-06-05 15:43:32

Tbh it was my fault. I looked away for a second. Blood everywhere, snowballs everywhere and through my garbled three year old veiw of the world I heard the eve speak to her son. "Kill them all" and then I died. Death by snowball is slightly anticliamctic lol

jasonrohrer · 2019-06-05 18:30:02

Snowballs were basically a one-off gag during the holiday update.

I'll probably just remove the ability to throw them at people. I wish they could splat on your face with no other consequence, but the engine doesn't support that, currently (the only way to trigger a forced emote is through making you hold something, so it makes you drop what you are currently holding). Actually, maybe it would be worth fixing this in-engine.

I don't think auto-aim of bows is a huge problem. Dancing to avoid being hit is dumb. Snowballs are infinite.

Tarr · 2019-06-05 18:38:32

Snowballs are our only nonlethal weapon in game at this point. If you remove the ability to splat people then you are removing a players only real defense against armed players besides just running away.

Auto-aim is problematic because it has no counters besides just running away. Melee? You go and grab a snowball to disarm them and then proceed to stab. Before auto-aim was introduced the counter was to not get hit as the player with the snowballs could miss and then be punished. There's no punishing in a system where the game just hits the other player.

If you're going to remove the ability to disarm with snowballs I'd like to see a real nonlethal ranged weapon be added to the game along with the promised tools to deal with griefers. We've had the bug where we can't curse players in our own lineages for a month at this point and I'm sure I'm not the only one hoping to see that fixed.

Solbusaur · 2019-06-05 18:41:52

Nonono keep snowballs, they're really helpful. We just need a way to limit them somehow, because of the snowball spam

mrbah · 2019-06-05 18:59:21

make it so a person can only throw a snowball every so often.
a group of people could still snowballstun one person, but you would need four or more for one single target.

futurebird · 2019-06-05 19:04:41

What if you can only get 3 balls out of a drift and have to wait for more snow to soften up to make more?

jasonrohrer · 2019-06-05 19:11:05

Snowballs weren't meant to be a way to disarm griefers.

What's the bug where you can't curse people in your own lineage?

Is it this?

https://github.com/jasonrohrer/OneLife/issues/302

I think this was fixed a while back, because your last name is remembered, come hell or high water, unless your family doesn't actually have a name at all.

And whoops, there's a simple bug there if you have no last name for real. Just fixed that.

Tarr · 2019-06-05 19:18:08

jasonrohrer wrote:

Snowballs weren't meant to be a way to disarm griefers.
What's the bug where you can't curse people in your own lineage?
Is it this?
https://github.com/jasonrohrer/OneLife/issues/302
I think this was fixed a while back, because your last name is remembered, come hell or high water, unless your family doesn't actually have a name at all.
And whoops, there's a simple bug there if you have no last name for real. Just fixed that.

Yes there is/was a bug where you cannot curse someone in your lineage if they lose their last name. It's been a bug that is still present to this day hence me reporting it

https://github.com/jasonrohrer/OneLifeData7/issues/295

Not sure if the cause is actually the server hiccuping or what but whenever these people pop up they produce other people who cannot be cursed. This has been a bug since the surname thing was fixed and still occasionally pops up.

DestinyCall · 2019-06-05 19:28:17

jasonrohrer wrote:

Snowballs weren't meant to be a way to disarm griefers.

Happy accident.

jasonrohrer · 2019-06-05 20:54:52

If they can be used against griefers, they can be used BY griefers too, right?

Tarr, I moved the issue here:

https://github.com/jasonrohrer/OneLife/issues/329

Please comment there with more info.

Tarr · 2019-06-05 21:17:27

Correct, griefers can use snowballs against you just as you can use snowballs against them which is demonstrated in the case of Futurebird and her family being snowballed to death. The snowball is basically the tie breaker in the eternal game of chicken that is melee combat where as ranged combat is just a game of never getting near another player due to not knowing who has the better latency. While snowballs are definitely overpowered and should be nerfed I do feel like something should exist in their niche of disarming with preference to whatever would replace them not be lethal if possible.

Combat as is happens to be a weird system:
Melee beats unarmed (duh)
Snowball beats unarmed and melee
Bows beat melee and unarmed
Snowballs and bows play chicken.

Melee is only truly effective against people who you are outside of their FoV or for surprise attacks with the classic example being stand next to someone and pull out a quick knife.
Melee vs melee is either a game of chicken or a situation of which of the two players is smart enough to fetch a snowball
Ranged vs ranged is just the chicken situation.

While you've removed some of the dancing from combat (melee combat when people are being silly) ranged combat should never result in one player shooting another as it's safer to just avoid the other person until they drop their weapon. So the most effective way in game to combat someone with a bow is to just run around until they have to eat which is also silly in my opinion.

In relation to the bug I have no real idea if the underlying cause for people to permanently lose their surname is related to the server hiccups (completely random disconnects) or if you've managed to fix the root of the problem with players losing their surnames now being cursable.

Grim_Arbiter · 2019-06-05 21:30:00

Tarr wrote:

Correct, griefers can use snowballs against you just as you can use snowballs against them which is demonstrated in the case of Futurebird and her family being snowballed to death. The snowball is basically the tie breaker in the eternal game of chicken that is melee combat where as ranged combat is just a game of never getting near another player due to not knowing who has the better latency. While snowballs are definitely overpowered and should be nerfed I do feel like something should exist in their niche of disarming with preference to whatever would replace them not be lethal if possible.
Combat as is happens to be a weird system:
Melee beats unarmed (duh)
Snowball beats unarmed and melee
Bows beat melee and unarmed
Snowballs and bows play chicken.
Melee is only truly effective against people who you are outside of their FoV or for surprise attacks with the classic example being stand next to someone and pull out a quick knife.
Melee vs melee is either a game of chicken or a situation of which of the two players is smart enough to fetch a snowball
Ranged vs ranged is just the chicken situation.
While you've removed some of the dancing from combat (melee combat when people are being silly) ranged combat should never result in one player shooting another as it's safer to just avoid the other person until they drop their weapon. So the most effective way in game to combat someone with a bow is to just run around until they have to eat which is also silly in my opinion.
In relation to the bug I have no real idea if the underlying cause for people to permanently lose their surname is related to the server hiccups (completely random disconnects) or if you've managed to fix the root of the problem with players losing their surnames now being cursable.

I've actually only been killed by the bow and not the sword since the change.

Almost all of the kills I have made since the change have been by knife too.

People rush up to me with either the sword or bow drawn. They think I dont see them trying to rush me, and dont see the knife in my bag or pocket. I rush to meet them halfway and get the first click because they get startled by their target now running at them instead of away.

jasonrohrer · 2019-06-05 21:40:37

Latency should have nothing to do with it.

You can shift-right-click on someone without them being in range of your weapon. You are then in kill mode against them, and if they ever get in range, they die.

If two people are in kill mode against each other, with the same-range weapon and they come within range, then the one who entered kill mode first wins. But again, this has nothing to do with latency.

The only way latency would be a factor is if you see someone before they see you (because their client is lagging).

Tarr · 2019-06-05 21:42:57

Grim_Arbiter wrote:

I've actually only been killed by the bow and not the sword since the change.
Almost all of the kills I have made since the change have been by knife too.
People rush up to me with either the sword or bow drawn. They think I dont see them trying to rush me, and dont see the knife in my bag or pocket. I rush to meet them halfway and get the first click because they get startled by their target now running at them instead of away.

Interesting, so it would seem people are still dumb when it comes to that sort of thing I guess you win this round of theorycrafting vs how things actually play out. Seems people aren't smart enough to attack first with their bow or are hesitant.

One Hour One Life Forums

#1 2019-06-05 14:41:22

Snowballs are really overpowered.

#2 2019-06-05 14:43:43

Re: Snowballs are really overpowered.

#3 2019-06-05 14:46:16

Re: Snowballs are really overpowered.

#4 2019-06-05 14:46:44

Re: Snowballs are really overpowered.

#5 2019-06-05 14:59:35

Re: Snowballs are really overpowered.

#6 2019-06-05 15:04:07

Re: Snowballs are really overpowered.

#7 2019-06-05 15:04:55

Re: Snowballs are really overpowered.

#8 2019-06-05 15:06:51

Re: Snowballs are really overpowered.

#9 2019-06-05 15:14:44

Re: Snowballs are really overpowered.

#10 2019-06-05 15:19:17

Re: Snowballs are really overpowered.

#11 2019-06-05 15:22:20

Re: Snowballs are really overpowered.

#12 2019-06-05 15:43:32

Re: Snowballs are really overpowered.

#13 2019-06-05 18:30:02

Re: Snowballs are really overpowered.

#14 2019-06-05 18:38:32

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#15 2019-06-05 18:41:52

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#16 2019-06-05 18:59:21

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#17 2019-06-05 19:04:41

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#18 2019-06-05 19:11:05

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#19 2019-06-05 19:18:08

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#20 2019-06-05 19:28:17

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#21 2019-06-05 20:54:52

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#22 2019-06-05 21:17:27

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#23 2019-06-05 21:30:00

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#24 2019-06-05 21:40:37

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#25 2019-06-05 21:42:57

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