Problem: The Apple Can Fall Too Far From The Tree?

futurebird · 2019-06-04 13:15:48

Wow pein you really are amazing.

pein · 2019-06-04 13:45:26

ikr

lychee · 2019-06-04 14:00:22

The only other factor I kind of want to add is that teaching other players can be a big part of the game too — or retention of new players.

In my view, sometimes the long-term goal of cultivating a good player base is equally important — if not more important than the tangible goals in OHOL (e.g. making that oil rig). Consequently, I’ll usually prioritize a new player who’s willing to learn over almost anything else I could be doing.

There’s a very famous adage regarding giving a person a fish or teaching a person to fish.

It’s important to me to give a good experience to players who are experiencing OHOL for their first couple weeks. IMO, that’s the most magical time of the game. In contrast, when you become experienced, the game becomes more rote and repetitive. So for me, I really strive to be that family member (amazing mom, amazing uncle) who taught me something cool while being badass and amazing when I was just starting out.

I don’t quite RP, but words can go farther than you might expect. Simple things like:

“Good job”
“Thank you!”
“Wow, that’s awesome!”
“I’ll miss you”

Can go a long way in making people feel valued and contribute to the “feels” that people have when playing OHOL.

This is a #life thing too, but compliment people more often (even for little things), and the world might get a little rosier.

Spoonwood · 2019-06-04 14:33:45

futurebird wrote:

As for killing players? I don't even get that. Are you saying you want people to kill players for not being "good" parents? Is that it? How would killing such a person help anything?

RodneyC86 wrote:

So you are proposing women who leave on horsecarts automatically get the stab?

If someone kills someone else with a knife or kills with a bow and arrow, they can't drop the weapon correct? That person is slow as molasses (I think slower than a baby), and can't pick a baby up, correct? Child neglect in the form of not feeding your children *if necessary* isn't good parenting procedure. So, no, I'm not proposing that women who leave on horsecarts automatically get the stab, because that might lead to child neglect (who would be doing the killing?). We had talked about *signaling* out those trolls, which is rather different from stabbing.

Spoonwood · 2019-06-04 14:46:21

futurebird wrote:

RodneyC86 wrote:
Wait who said anything about stabbing people not being good parents?
Spoonwood did. He seems to think the fact that people don't get angry at what he defines as "bad moms" means that people aren't "taking the game seriously" or some nonsense. I hardly can make sense of it myself since his whole premise that women using a horse or not hanging by the nursery are "bad moms" isn't even correct.

I don't believe I said something to the effect that women not hanging around the nursery were bad moms.

The core concept of the game is that you care for your offspring, and that comes from Jason, strangely I might add, in a post about war:

jasonrohrer wrote:

The core idea in this game is that you care for your offspring because they are the future that gives what you accomplish in the game meaning.

https://onehouronelife.com/forums/viewt … d=6724&p=3

Getting wood for building is clearly slower if a woman takes out a horsecart than a man. The number of horsecarts is finite in a camp, and often less than the number of adult male players. A woman taking a horsecart thus can slow down civilization building.

Spoonwood · 2019-06-04 15:15:13

pein wrote:

you can call it bs but before jason fixed coordinate tracking, i took a random eve, and our line was top 1 that week, coming from 1500 tiles, taking over emberson camp and 60+ generations were all my descendants, Haak was the longest line, and Cucci was top 4, were i got 12 packs and 3 horses from Dante/Dupont city, ended up havign the only airplane on server

I have no idea if you cared for your offspring or if the Eve did so. And I mean *all* of your offspring, including any babies cursing or racists or anything like that. Parents don't get a choice to just starve their child if they say bad things in the real world. Starving children is child neglect. Jason wants "real play" (a wild misnomer, but I digress) also, which I think entails that one would have to care for all of one's offspring.

You refer to all of these lineage numbers, but I think they end up as irrelevant, since either you or the Eve, or someone else early, wasn't playing with the core concept. If you want to talk about how others should play, then it's fair to say that you should start playing with the core concept and git good when playing that way.

pein wrote:

but lets just say that every long line at game start had the most buildigns and optimizations built by me, back before at the start we remembered every big town with long lineage, i forgot some but lets just say a few: West. had the pen made by me, all horse fences, cisterns, bucket station - it was the first big town after berry buffs

Well, that wouldn't consider the parenting aspect of the game. The assumption isn't even right here Pein, because apparently the core concept isn't relevant to you.

pein wrote:

San-cal actually was going a while but i was there at the start and didn't really looked like anything until me and dodge cut out the jungle, locked the mosquitoes with bell tower bases and made some nice farms

What was the percentage of people consistently caring for *all* of their offspring at San-Cal Pein?

pein wrote:

i do have one of highest average age, even with most dangerous lifestyle and if you talk about statistic im always in top 10 furthest exploring players

Average age length is neither civilization building nor parenting.

pein wrote:

ofc im not really into standing near fire when someone else does it, after so many kids , at least i pick people up and if they follow they will live, if not, well they wouldn't be useful anyway

As I suspected, you're NOT caring for all of your offspring Pein and what you said before only told part of the picture. You said they wouldn't be useful to try to justify your not caring for them. You're not playing under the core concept.

pein wrote:

stop taking your children's archievements as your own, it's pure luck

That implies that you can't use lineage length to judge your ability as you did above Pein.

pein wrote:

my daughter had twins and quads and we took over blondin city
there is no skill involved in that, you stand in fire talking so they don't suicide? sure good for stats but zero for work done

So what about skill? So what about work?

Is such parenting or civilization building? That's the question to ask.

pein wrote:

making an early pen, getting iron, keeping the town fucntional and organized, those things help player retention

I'm not sure what you mean by player retention.

pein wrote:

and your whole yum and heat bonus worth 1 girl tops, once

I don't believe that I brought those up here.

pein wrote:

having more people wont mean more work done
and having the wrong kind of people wont make a good town

If you're talking about your children, then your attitude shows that you're not likely to care for all of them.

pein wrote:

why are you so good parent?

I don't believe I said I was. Not according to the core concept. I provided evidence elsewhere that I haven't been... see this post and the four links: https://onehouronelife.com/forums/viewtopic.php?id=6803

pein wrote:

cause you roleplay a bit? idc about is my son or nepfew, if it's a good player i help him and im the first to stab my griefer daughter[

You just gave strong evidence that you're roleplaying yourself Pein. You care for your children who *might* be good, and then don't care for certain children who won't follow and worse as you described. "Realplaying" parenting isn't doing that. It involves caring for all of your offspring.

futurebird · 2019-06-04 15:20:38

pein wrote:

ikr

Oh it's clear that you know.

pein · 2019-06-04 17:46:41

you sound like religious nutwits
i don't believe in religion, not because i don't know about it, because i know too much about it

with hours comes the experience, and i done it enough
i can build a town and i can destroy it just as quick, it's a choice, same as parenting, it's not like im unskilled at it i just no longer enjoy it, this doesn't mean i don't do parentign or make berry farms, i just did it too many times
same goes for smithing, i let a mediocre smith do it while i help him even if im faster and he could do the manual tasks

Sancal was a regular shithole with berry extenders and too much population
i could feed 20 people alone but that 20 people wont do the upgrades, while i can, and i wont stress like they do
you are on your own, not like im not helping new people, in 5 min i already know what and where, and i answer questions, people don't ask questions, either because they think they good or they afraid to ask or don't know who to ask, but it's kidn of bare minimum that you want help, you ask for it

you are like a blind horse just talking about yum fertility and parenting
just because you like it, doesn't mean everybody else does
the city lasts longer if troublemakers are killed
good exampel is Elder town, one of my deepest roots, we killed 5 people under 40 min, with Tarr, preventing newcommens built near oven and people who would destroy the civilization

eventually ended up as a very long line and a huge city
and easier to despatch griefers when you see their bad intentions at young age

Roleplaying is caring for you idiot griefer son rather than hard working people, and itself is a griefing when you buy their love with clothes you don't make and act nice to them and leach on others

disregarding logic is not caring
you shouldn't try to raise a kid if you yourself starving
and you shouldn't give clothes to your son what someone gave to you to have higher fertility, just to prove you are a good mom

and most of us doesn't require to be told what to work or what is where, and throw me around every second when i lose a pip
if that what you mean under good parenting then sorry to disappoint you but that is just the lack of game experience
someone who feeds one kid, can just as well feed 10 of them
someone who makes sure you advance in tech a bit, can be a bonus on fertility cause lot of people quit on messed up camps with no plans

so if you got a stack of iron, that motivates people to stay, if you got 100 yum, you might get more kids but doesn't matter if they don't stay

you don't even play bigserver a lot
well trust me, i don't need to try or to grind, i already see hwo long natural resources last, how long we can sustain a family
you will have losses, you can try and carry 20 people on your back, is not fun for you and not useful for them
if they cant make 2 compost a life, get firewood, and clean the corpses, it's an attitude problem, not skill problem

i don't care what you want or jason wants
the beauty of the game si not his vision or designer choices
he doesn't even made a skill system or any sort of gameplay motivation to do things
people leach on others cause it's easier to do that than producing their own
it wont change until they don't try to eve or try to sustain others
helping them only prevents them to understand the math behind food supply

you just keep going and going and talking about yum and fertility and shit, isn't even jasons vision, it's your vision, you are more into winning

my point is that aggression is not a problem
and you cant differentiate between a revenge or a self defence
then you just let griefers do whatever they want, it will kill a line faster than multiple killers
i seen people abuse others for a whole life, and others stil ldefend them when they are killed
not all kills are bad and not everybody kills multiple random people for fun, some got a good reason
and maybe people wh odont kill at all, are better than the ones who kill anyone with a bloody weapon
but then again leave me with the stupidity that killing is bad

it's a game with pvp
either accept that it has pvp
or remove pvp or refine it to a complex system where people can measure their skill for the fight of power
sneaky backstabbing bad intended people getting what they want because they are pissed is not a good "combat"
cant even called as a combat
even agar.io has a better system, the big fish eats the small, here people are vegetables and every little fish eats anything they want ruining everything in process, then chain kills start
you want leaders? well then prove your skill that you are able to lead or step back

all this murder cooldowns give unfair advantage to others to decide upon a fate of someone who might or might not deserve it
why not limit a fight before it happens?
accept a duel and get prepared, or decline and get punished
if it's a pvp game you need to be always prepred but you play with that promise
i don't like griefers cause they don't care to work, so got time to kill/frame/ambush/backstab

butwhen is soemthing domestic, and you want to kill one specific person for a reason, the whole drama following it it's just dumb

on the other hand some aggressive people as you call never kill without a good reason and respect logical explanations, so just because you think that destroyign soemthign or stealing doesn't deserve to be killed, doesn't mean you are right, especially if you kill the ones who don't like that kind of behavior cause you just prove the opposite

so i think some form of non lethal disputes would be nice, even if is lethal, some form of combat between rules, cause right now most of times you don't even have the time to grab your weapon when people can use their magic aim to take you down

Last edited by pein (2019-06-04 17:47:22)

Spoonwood · 2019-06-04 19:35:51

Pein, AGAIN, where did I bring up yum and fertility?

Pein, killing your children is bad parenting. Women killing during their fertile period leads to them not being able to feed a child. It's not good preparation for parenting.

I'm not the game designer.

Pein wrote:

Sancal was a regular shithole with berry extenders and too much population

More people means more parenting. People went back to in multiple lives because of the belltowers which required building. Sure does sound like it had plenty of civilization building even from your description of it, and well I saw it on I think at least three occassions. It even had a suburb. That's not a shitthole.

Pein wrote:

Roleplaying is caring for you idiot griefer son rather than hard working people, and itself is a griefing when you buy their love with clothes you don't make and act nice to them and leach on others

No, roleplaying is doing a half-ass job of parenting and not caring for the potential criminals and trying to get them to act otherwise, because you're fulfilling the ROLE expected of you as an advanced player by the people around you.

pein · 2019-06-05 01:31:44

if it's for a reason is bad babying not bad parenting, if you draw a line and they step trough it it's their choice, if you don't draw a line at all that is your fault

Sancal was a regular shithole
you werent there at the start, there was nothing special about it, i still remember the biome compostions, wasn't even perfect, maybe the rabbis were close, and werent too any ponds right near but plenty around, and had some flat space NS direction
i remember making the well upgrades, the failed attempt to fix the bushes by digging them and making road, they actually took off roads and replanted it and extended it even more

until we cut the junge and forced out squitoes, wasn't any particular nice structure in it, the berry farm was the first design then a room next to the rabbits, which was tiny

was the longest lineage for the next week so there was a lot of people, and actually people stared some mega projects
same as casino city, it was good on second week when it was revived, not in first week when was made

i never do expected things, if people could expect things ,they could do it themselves or understand why the last woman shouldn't go for iron for example, or why they shouldn't watch who kills who while the last baby girl starves crying
people don't see and don't care that you are an advanced player, only advanced players see advanced players
you cant shit upward , the main reason some people arent advanced players that they don't even know what that would mean

you can take a position cause no one does it or take a position cause you want to do it
if someone enjoys raising all babies, then is a good job for her, if does it cause no one else doing it then is a boring bad life
if they don't want to work at all then is a minimum to ask to raise 2 babies instead of 1
i myself prefer that one random person raising me while my mother goes and makes a fire so i don't stress and not when each mother holds one baby and no one gives a crap that nothing gets done in the meanwhile

One Hour One Life Forums

#26 2019-06-04 13:15:48

Re: Problem: The Apple Can Fall Too Far From The Tree?

#27 2019-06-04 13:45:26

Re: Problem: The Apple Can Fall Too Far From The Tree?

#28 2019-06-04 14:00:22

Re: Problem: The Apple Can Fall Too Far From The Tree?

#29 2019-06-04 14:33:45

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#31 2019-06-04 15:15:13

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#32 2019-06-04 15:20:38

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#33 2019-06-04 17:46:41

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#34 2019-06-04 19:35:51

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