One Hour One Life Forums

Booklat1

Member

Registered: 2018-07-21

Posts: 1,062

Re: STOTRAGE UPDATE

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Thats where you're actually incorrect. Try spamming milk one life and watch closely for people drinking it. Or even stew, check how many different people eat it.

New players learn berries and can easily see pies and carrots are edible. Bowl foods? Not so much.

But wouldn't this simply be a matter of education? And wouldn't they have to learn that "food is in the pantry" just as much as they would need to learn "you can drink milk". .

It is a matter of education which is why an item that displays food is a good tool to teach people. But dont overthink it, food isnt pantry, berry fields are everywhere and you'll only see tables in developed towns. Not having a horse doesnt stop noobs from recognizing a car as a vehicle.

RodneyC86

Member

Registered: 2019-05-11

Posts: 467

Re: STOTRAGE UPDATE

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it makes the game more noob friendly if there are more purpose built storage. A newbie would instinctively know that food can be found on a dining table next to the oven. Then the newbie gets to learn examples of food you can make.

Pies in wooden boxes are a bit weird, and honestly without mousing over it, taking a basket out, and  then inspecting it. you would NOT guess they are pies. I used to think they were some kind of sandal (i know, i;m not the brightest light bulb in the universe). Newbies WILL struggle with this, as I did, and currently my brother too lol

Part of good design is that the objects imply their function well, not necessarily needing to spell it out and hold our hands

Yeah, I commented a bit on this in an earlier post. It makes sense from this perspective. But you'd need the player to learn anyway. Wouldn't specific containers still be kind of spelling it out? But I suppose at that point, it's an intrinsic game mechanic.

I do see the value in this now, but I don't think it outweighs the benefit of having a container you can just store anything in. That is where we'll have to agree to disagree.

I'm glad you can see our train of thought. Do not forget this game, is still a fledgling game that needs to be promoted at some point and newbies will have to come in.

Although.... its totally FINE to allow anything to say go on a dining table, or anything to go into a closet. You can do that in real life so why not in game? Remember, though as a newbie, they will instinctively try to draw parallels with that you can do in OHOL and real life - seeing as how Jason even made the aesthetics of having each item being 'physical and present'.

Therefore, It is important to have 'suggestions' on what this storage unit is for. For organization purpose.
Nothing stops me from keeping my shoes on my dining table and my freshly cooked chicken pie in my shoebox conversely ( okay hygiene dont matter in game but thats not the point), but people who come to my house when i say I have food will be utterly confused that I choose to keep my pie in my shoebox.

Or if I say, yeah sure, just go over to my room and grab yourself a shirt you can borrow. They will go for the closet. and not waste time opening the box on the floor containing my old computer spare parts. Efficiency!
I guess you understand by now.

Thanks for the discussion

Edit: choice of words, sorry, English is my second language

Last edited by RodneyC86 (2019-05-29 16:17:42)

futurebird

Member

Registered: 2019-02-20

Posts: 1,553

Re: STOTRAGE UPDATE

I don't see how simply having more things stack would hurt anything!

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omnem cibum costis
tantum baca, non facies opus

Booklat1

Member

Registered: 2018-07-21

Posts: 1,062

Re: STOTRAGE UPDATE

I don't see how simply having more things stack would hurt anything!

it closes design space for storage tech

sure, some stuff should stack by itself but if all is easy we have no reason to progress tech. Survival game, remember.

futurebird

Member

Registered: 2019-02-20

Posts: 1,553

Re: STOTRAGE UPDATE

Well if jason can't add better storage tech I'll take stacking. I don't see the harm in using the crock to store more things too. Why can't it be filled with flour? why does baking have to take up so much storage space?

This is a simple change you are trying to fix deeper issues in the game which is fine, but I just want to stop drowning in clutter and having nothing to do to fix it. A table would be fine but it won't solve the issue with grain.

Decay would help with grain, but I'm not running around playing with dozens of bowls just to save the grain. That just isn't fun. Being able to be organized and bake a bunch of pies *is* fun. So if we get decay it need to be balanced with better storage for the items that decay.

Something as simple as making meat decay if not stacked would be wonderful. Or make a whole new host of items I don't really care. I just want the mess gone.

Last edited by futurebird (2019-05-29 16:54:00)

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omnem cibum costis
tantum baca, non facies opus

lychee

Member

Registered: 2019-05-08

Posts: 328

Re: STOTRAGE UPDATE

Cross post:

On the forums, Jason, you mentioned the problem of server load for having lots of generic storage.

Wouldn’t this be resolved if instead there were specialized storage containers (e.g. grain silo)? I believe(?) currently you use brand new objects for each element of a stack (e.g. bucket with 2 bowls of water => bucket with 3 bowls of water), however this is quite tedious.

I know this might be a lot to ask for, but wouldn’t your coding be so much easier if you stored a generic “counter” parameter with each object in the database? And then serialized this counter when sending data to clients? You can store it as a short so the impact on bandwidth is minimal.

For instance, carrot (counter=1) would be rendered as a single carrot on the ground by the client. Carrot (counter=5) would be rendered as a stack of five carrots. Shallow Well (counter=4), Iron Mine (counter=3), etc could all have different meanings that make stackable data a lot easier to handle.

It would make our lives a lot easier if most items of the same type were stackable (or containable in a specialized container that stores only one object type).

—————

To follow up on the “counter” idea, the current soil/bucket logic is completely nonintuitive for beginners. It makes no sense that you can’t use a bowl on a pile of compost (or a half empty bucket on a cistern) (or a bowl on a cistern), and every day I see beginners struggling over this before they figure out this weird quirk of the game.

To make the game controls more intuitive, piles of stuff (e.g soil, water) should be counted by their smallest unit. For instance, a full pile of composted soil should be 21 units, not 7 units (x3 baskets). This way, you would be able to use a bowl on a pile of compost and decrement the counter by one. Using a basket decrements the pile by three. The client is responsible for figuring out the sprite to display based on the counter.

futurebird

Member

Registered: 2019-02-20

Posts: 1,553

Re: STOTRAGE UPDATE

Cross post:

On the forums, Jason, you mentioned the problem of server load for having lots of generic storage.

Wouldn’t this be resolved if instead there were specialized storage containers (e.g. grain silo)? I believe(?) currently you use brand new objects for each element of a stack (e.g. bucket with 2 bowls of water => bucket with 3 bowls of water), however this is quite tedious.

Grain or flour storage could work just like water buckets. Great idea.

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omnem cibum costis
tantum baca, non facies opus

Booklat1

Member

Registered: 2018-07-21

Posts: 1,062

Re: STOTRAGE UPDATE

Well if jason can't add better storage tech I'll take stacking. I don't see the harm in using the crock to store more things too. Why can't it be filled with flour? why does baking have to take up so much storage space?

This is a simple change you are trying to fix deeper issues in the game which is fine, but I just want to stop drowning in clutter and having nothing to do to fix it. A table would be fine but it won't solve the issue with grain.

Decay would help with grain, but I'm not running around playing with dozens of bowls just to save the grain. That just isn't fun. Being able to be organized and bake a bunch of pies *is* fun. So if we get decay it need to be balanced with better storage for the items that decay.

Something as simple as making meat decay if not stacked would be wonderful. Or make a whole new host of items I don't really care. I just want the mess gone.

Yeah, i dont disagree with any of that, specially decay.

but furniture and new items like tool racks, barrels and tables should Also exist.

Clutter absolutely sucks and both decay and storage tech help with that AND helps resource contingency in general.

Decay + storage tech is what i've been asking for since forever

Grim_Arbiter

Member

Registered: 2018-12-30

Posts: 943

Re: STOTRAGE UPDATE

On the other hand, I've lived many lives in villages where there were very few storage boxes.  These are not hard to make.  I spent my most recent life making some, and getting all the junk up off the ground and organized.

That said, I may be missing something.

Is the main complaint that there are simply some things that can't be stored, at all?  Or some things that would be nice to stack, that don't stack?

I see this, about making more stacks:

https://github.com/jasonrohrer/OneLifeData7/issues/269

I created this issue about the storage issue specifically.  Please help to fill it in:

https://github.com/jasonrohrer/OneLifeData7/issues/319

I'm surprised nobody stabbed you haha. Well they probably thought you were making carts. Rope is more important for buckets and horsecarts than it is for storage at the moment.

As for stacks, there could be a few added... copper and corn come to mind

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--Grim
I'm flying high. But the worst is never first, and there's a person that'll set you straight. Cancelling the force within my brain. For flying high. The simulator has been disengaged.

FeignedSanity

Member

Registered: 2018-04-03

Posts: 482

Re: STOTRAGE UPDATE

I'd prefer trash over decay. Let us make the choice if something should be disposed of. Stuff just vanishing into the ether might be a little easier, but that just seems lazy. Just let us throw more stuff away. #maketrashpitsgreatagain

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Believe you're right, but don't believe you can't be wrong.
-----------------------------------------------------------------
Days peppers/onions/tomatoes left unfixed: 120
Do your part and remind Jason to fix these damn vegetables.

Booklat1

Member

Registered: 2018-07-21

Posts: 1,062

Re: STOTRAGE UPDATE

I'd prefer trash over decay. Let us make the choice if something should be disposed of. Stuff just vanishing into the ether might be a little easier, but that just seems lazy. Just let us throw more stuff away. #maketrashpitsgreatagain

its not easier, food decay for example forces people to make storage if they want to increase production

It makes no sense to throw away valuable food but it decaying does

Last edited by Booklat1 (2019-05-29 18:13:45)

FeignedSanity

Member

Registered: 2018-04-03

Posts: 482

Re: STOTRAGE UPDATE

I'm glad you can see our train of thought. Do not forget this game, is still a fledgling game that needs to be promoted at some point and newbies will have to come in.

Although.... its totally FINE to allow anything to say go on a dining table, or anything to go into a closet. You can do that in real life so why not in game? Remember, though as a newbie, they will instinctively try to draw parallels with that you can do in OHOL and real life - seeing as how Jason even made the aesthetics of having each item being 'physical and present'.

Therefore, It is important to have 'suggestions' on what this storage unit is for. For organization purpose.
Nothing stops me from keeping my shoes on my dining table and my freshly cooked chicken pie in my shoebox conversely ( okay hygiene dont matter in game but thats not the point), but people who come to my house when i say I have food will be utterly confused that I choose to keep my pie in my shoebox.

Or if I say, yeah sure, just go over to my room and grab yourself a shirt you can borrow. They will go for the closet. and not waste time opening the box on the floor containing my old computer spare parts. Efficiency!
I guess you understand by now.

Thanks for the discussion

Edit: choice of words, sorry, English is my second language

I haven't forgotten that new players will come in. I was just arguing that the trade off of having specific storage over universal wasn't worth it. A new player would have to learn regardless of what it was. But now I see the value of specific storage from my discussion with Dodge.

However, the whole "its totally FINE to allow anything to say go on a dining table, or anything to go into a closet." thing really undermines this. I feel like, at that point, why have it in the first place? If they all function the same, then it'd basically just be different skins for the chest. I do believe that if specific storage options were implemented, they should be limited to what is supposed to go in them.

Last edited by FeignedSanity (2019-05-29 18:39:38)

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Believe you're right, but don't believe you can't be wrong.
-----------------------------------------------------------------
Days peppers/onions/tomatoes left unfixed: 120
Do your part and remind Jason to fix these damn vegetables.

FeignedSanity

Member

Registered: 2018-04-03

Posts: 482

Re: STOTRAGE UPDATE

I'd prefer trash over decay. Let us make the choice if something should be disposed of. Stuff just vanishing into the ether might be a little easier, but that just seems lazy. Just let us throw more stuff away. #maketrashpitsgreatagain

its not easier, food decay for example forces people to make storage if they want to increase production

It makes no sense to throw away valuable food but it decaying does

Obviously food is left out of this (except rotten food, if that ever became a thing). This is for stuff like easily spam-able tools, like bone needles and clay nozzles. Stuff like that. Obviously, I'm not saying the be able to throw the bellows or shovel in the trash. I guess some stuff that decays probably shouldn't be added to the trash list (straw, rabbit furs, etc.) for fear of getting griefed. Maybe it goes bad after a certain time, then it can be throw away. I do like that better, even if it does add extra work.

Edit: changed after further thought

Last edited by FeignedSanity (2019-05-29 18:27:07)

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Believe you're right, but don't believe you can't be wrong.
-----------------------------------------------------------------
Days peppers/onions/tomatoes left unfixed: 120
Do your part and remind Jason to fix these damn vegetables.

RodneyC86

Member

Registered: 2019-05-11

Posts: 467

Re: STOTRAGE UPDATE

I'm glad you can see our train of thought. Do not forget this game, is still a fledgling game that needs to be promoted at some point and newbies will have to come in.

Although.... its totally FINE to allow anything to say go on a dining table, or anything to go into a closet. You can do that in real life so why not in game? Remember, though as a newbie, they will instinctively try to draw parallels with that you can do in OHOL and real life - seeing as how Jason even made the aesthetics of having each item being 'physical and present'.

Therefore, It is important to have 'suggestions' on what this storage unit is for. For organization purpose.
Nothing stops me from keeping my shoes on my dining table and my freshly cooked chicken pie in my shoebox conversely ( okay hygiene dont matter in game but thats not the point), but people who come to my house when i say I have food will be utterly confused that I choose to keep my pie in my shoebox.

Or if I say, yeah sure, just go over to my room and grab yourself a shirt you can borrow. They will go for the closet. and not waste time opening the box on the floor containing my old computer spare parts. Efficiency!
I guess you understand by now.

Thanks for the discussion

Edit: choice of words, sorry, English is my second language

I haven't forgotten that new players will come in. I was just arguing that the trade off of having specific storage over universal wasn't worth it. A new player would have to learn regardless of what it was. But now I see the value of specific storage from my discussion with Dodge.

However, the whole "its totally FINE to allow anything to say go on a dining table, or anything to go into a closet." thing really undermines this. I feel like, at that point, why have it in the first place? If they all function the same, then it'd basically just be different skins for the chest. I do believe that if specific storage options were implemented, they should be limited to what is supposed to go in them.

As I said, suggestions. Often that's good enough. Problems might come if the storages have different capacities and some are simply more cost efficient though.

I have another idea where we just able to write something on the wooden boxes to tell people the intended use of a box but it really is up to a person whether he follows or not.