The mechanics of the game prevent trade

pein · 2019-04-27 16:42:20

First of all, the main concept of the game is that the Eve spawns alone, then they try to make a civilization
So we need to share to archieve this , also no reason to have multiple kilns, the tools need to be available for everyone. One set of tools. On file and weapons i agree we need some control.

Multiple berry farms? it's easier to pick them off so as long as each family has them it's fine.
It's still applies that berry is not a good food and you should decrease it's usage, but nothing currently changes the way that they are the food for newbies.

Multiple ovens?
A pie feeds people for a long time, and as long as you got plates, people can run multiple ovens.
Multiple sheep pens?
Actually that is a good anti clutter and anti griefer deffence.

But generally multiple small buildings use more resources as one bigger. Ofc for some trade you need resources, and not too much, but also if it's only enough for a 5x5 building, it isn't gonna help any trade

Later on, when the population starts booming, raising your own kids, having enough food for them is enough job. your sister and her kids are kind of a competition.
but we don't really have a reason to stay with our mom. it's just rp. We don't even have a reeason to group up with others, and no mechanics either.
No jobs that need 2 person to perform, or more.

Family means the town, lineage ban is to prevent getting back, but suicides are for cherry picking. Two obvious reasons are bad towns and people wanting to be eve.
The population should be always roughly the same and the Eve number should always be low.
If you want people to care, they need to get back to their fmaily, city, family. Allow them to have a decent population all the time.
The population should increase slower but when older people die, they need a replacement.
Population is a resource which needs to be managed.
IF people cant born as eve, just circle between cities when there are too many cities, then that would solve the problem. Maybe if they eve, spawn much closer to each other (each cluster, not everyone same spot, but maybe select 4 primary locations then others born there)
Going out to pseudo Eve would be still an option.But towns should spawn eves near them.

Private property is impossible currently, cause people can interact with everything others make so they can take the fruit of your labor.
So we need a way that the snare you made cant be used by others by default, the rabbtis you got with it, are your own. They can move it a few tiles to clean up but cant take for themselves.
Maybe loans. How many times i see that i give seal skin to boost fertility and the girl gives it to his son cause she want to convince him shes a good mother. And im like: if you don't need it, give it back.
So what if the clothes you make are yours, you can loan them out and each time someone dies in them it goes back to your property?
Others can move them but they cant use them until you give permission.
This would solve baby gearing, you need to make new for your kid or find the owner of the clothes, go and thank the rabbi hunter personally.
IF soemone is dead, maybe wash the clothes, resetting their timer a bit and allowing usage of them.
right now you can just clothe up from dead people so is a lot of discrepancy and doesn't worth making your own pack when little hope gets one for her existence.

The other way would be favors. Every action earns you favors. SO older people got more points, if they work.
Each time they take something, removes from their favors points. So you could just take clothes but remove your favor points if you havent made them. The person who made them gets the favor points.
To spend favors we would need quests, like you mark a tile, get 6 firewood, to earn 10 favors from me.
Sure we could let people get a bit more than they deserve, but at least their intention would be to help and work for favors.

Currency
You got cabbage, is going well, people buy cabbage, small quantitties. You want a cart, Joe has a cart but doesn't like cabbage.
He could take your cababge and trade for something, but rather asks you to get something else. You cant really get anything vlauable what Joe needs ,then a trade wont happen.
Money is an universal good, changes for anything and can be stored for a while to get better things later.
Money needs to be safe and absolute. If you buy something, others cant use it and cant steal it and you can always prove that it's yours.
So we need some value system as well.
Now things that you make inside fences from scratch should be owned by people who own the gate.

We don't need to be able to sell and buy everything, or own everything.
We need a way so towns got a territory, you buy it from state?
Eve settles and 20x20 tiles is family territory.
Outside of that is a line signalling it's unclaimed.
People could claim 10x10 free, then each time they want more they have to pay for it.

Not sure what would be a score system or pay system cause you need money with a value that stands.
For example if you put soil on bushes, yo uwould get paid automatically with a currency for each action. Now there are actions which can be repeated fr generatign money, and are useless or ones that don't make sense to the game but for the players.
SO maybe the personal wealth would generate over time, more if you move more often, even more if you complete recipes, and much more for things like composting, gathering.
But we need some sort of trackign like stockpile place, you ask for firwood and fillign that tile gives them more points.

We need some sort of currency which is not hard to get, earn, cant be given to others for too cheap. People would be more active to earn their wage.

omlinson · 2019-04-27 16:56:39

i think dirt floors (should use soil base) should declare public property, an eve would then be able to ensure that the common area stays common.

dirt floors would decay if no one walked on them for X amount of years. this also means they could be used for paths.

Last edited by omlinson (2019-04-27 16:58:06)

CatX · 2019-04-27 17:18:58

Pein makes a good point.

Right now what we have is a survival game, at least early game. Survival is not about trading, it's about gathering and expending resources wisely.

Trade comes from surplus. "Now we have enough fish to survive - let's bring some of the fish to the Southern Cities to trade for grain, because grain doesn't grow well here North"

futurebird · 2019-04-27 17:43:13

I think you are right about limiting Eves to stabilize populations. That and some sort of pregnancy preview to help with the /die issue could make having a kid more meaningful.

As to the issue of property I think this could be solve more interestingly with customization. In the real world someone could take my stuff and use it, but they don't because of social pressure in most cases. You can tell items apart. Even if I leave an item out in the open here in NYC it won't get taken for a while because most people don't want to be yelled at. Once I was on the grand concourse in the south bronx (where I live) and dropped a wallet while jogging. I came back in an hour and saw some guys playing checkers. I was looking all over the ground and they were like "hey did you drop something" and gave it back to me with all the money. I was impressed it had all the money in it, but then I thought about if I were in their place. I would be ashamed to give it back empty and they clearly felt the same. Now if I'd dropped just some cash (you can't tell cash apart) I don't think I would have gotten it back, but it had my name on it so that made the social pressure work properly.

futurebird · 2019-04-27 17:45:01

My point, if it wasn't clear is there needs to be a way to tell tools, horse carts etc apart. I think Jason tested some simple tinting of items and it wasn't that simple to implement but this more than fences would let people defend what they own and deter hoarders and moochers. Or at least make it possible to identify such people.

DestinyCall · 2019-04-27 19:35:42

pein wrote:

We need some sort of currency which is not hard to get, earn, cant be given to others for too cheap. People would be more active to earn their wage.

On the topic of money ... how about tradeable curse tokens? Right now, everyone has just one token. If you curse someone, the token is "spent" and you cannot curse again immediately. After a certain amount of time, the token resets back to one. I think it is two hours?

But what if curse tokens were a form of virtual currency which could be freely traded and stored for later use? Two hours of play would accumulate one token. You could keep it for yourself or trade it to another player for something you want or need. The tokens have an inherent value, since they can be used for cursing griefers, but they are also valuable as an easy currency that cannot be stolen and doesn't occupy a tile or require a slot in your backpack. A "rich" person would be more powerful. Able to buy more things and spend their curse tokens more freely.

To prevent out of control inflation, your curse tokens would reset down to one at the start of a new life. So you would always start with zero or one token, but over the course of your life, you might be able to trade or inherit more tokens. Older people could pass their unspent tokens on to the younger generation to keep them going. Because, just like in the real world, you can't take it with you.

A rich person who dies alone with no heirs would leave behind nothing. All those tokens gone. But another person might pass her token on to her favorite kid and they will be set for life. Since some people will value the tokens and want to hoarde them while other people won't care about getting rich, the tokens could be used to buy goods or services from willing people and stimulate the economy.

We could actually leverage hatred of griefers into the basis for real trade and economic growth in our communities. Win-win!

pein · 2019-04-27 19:52:59

nope, curses suck and buying more would be even worse
i coudl produce things, worse case just steal or get from close by town that i can sell for curses then send someone innocent to donkey town, and people use curses for their opinions which is rarely objective or fair.

i think of similar tokens, but not the same

futurebird · 2019-04-27 20:08:17

Selling curse tokens is a terrible idea. It would be abused in so many ways. Now selling the ability to change your last name.... THAT I could go for.

breezeknight · 2019-04-27 23:11:44

pein wrote:

...
Private property is impossible currently, cause people can interact with everything others make so they can take the fruit of your labor.
So we need a way that the snare you made cant be used by others by default, the rabbtis you got with it, are your own. They can move it a few tiles to clean up but cant take for themselves.
Maybe loans. ...
The other way would be favors. Every action earns you favors. ...
Currency ...

i wrote already several times that there is no option for possession in game
nobody has anything, nobody can have anything other than in hand, pocket or backpack
#33

also the last suggestion i made about possessions is here
property per object

but probably nobody reads it & nobody is interested

you still cannot have loans without possession
currency is useless if there is no trade
trade cannot happen if people don't own anything, if people can't have anything

- - -

pein · 2019-04-28 23:14:58

im afraid that if we cant do step by step crafting with others then we advance much slower

so a crafting bench would be good
he likes rust anyway

so basically if you are settled, make a crafting bench, maybe able to carry it around but very slowly cause it heavy
you put ropes and short shafts , curved shafts on it, then combine them inside them, when hatchet is ready then you take out of it/from it

a crafting bench would need a flat rock, two yew shafts and maybe carve yew agai nto make some sort of bench/table thing with basic resources
you could do it normally but it's shared
if you do it on bench then you could control ownership

also would store items until it's complete
so you could have a table storing the tomatoes
if you die or maybe after a time no one uses it, it would dump the items out, if it's food it would decay
the main idea is that if you do a bench, then the items on it are yours until assembly, but you got to do the whole process alone

if you do outside, then the item is shared

it could be colored client side blue, and other owned items red, general stuff like now

you could set it shared, borrowed or private
default is private, maybe time limit
if you borrow, it will be yours again if the person dies and cant be given to others
if shared it can be used by anyone but it will show in bottom of screen who made it, maybe placing on bench again you could change the status once
you would get 0.5 points for making any recipe
you would get 1 point by making any recipe on bench
if you fail to return it in time you would get a minus point
even if you break it, you need to return it
would be better with a tool shed so you put borrowed tools there, they can take it but must return it
some sort of modifier tiles, where you can place items for a time
you get iron and place it on modifier, than you got 10 min to use them, others cant interact unless you share

this would mean that berry or carrots can be stolen but stew cant
the storage part would worth on it's own
if you fail to make ketchup, you would lose the station contents after a time
stew could be shared but could be withhold from others
would make sense to have a private bench for crafting inside your fences
it's already limited, when you place a branch and a hoe head on it, the hoe is yours
you could take components but not full items, those could be taken back legit
oh you got a red hoe, good job
oh you got a general hoe, don't hoard for yourself

this points could be used for tracking useful players and considered when someone says about them that they are griefers, you see a naked kid with a weapon with -2 score and an elder with 50 points, then you know who is the fault

right now people just lazy to do tools for themselves even if the iron is there then cry that others hoard when they are the ones who don't do anything about tools but once you make a brand new shovel they take it in 5 sec and break it, even cry about it when you try to take back

sure, it would have it's drawbacks, but logging the makers and rewarding work would lead to others work more or at least be nice with you if you are the far most useful person

i would share the tools as long as they thank it and maybe gather some firewood in return
would be more rewarding for workers that they got a bit of power over others
you want a backpack? i share if you make a compost

same sort of logging on other items would help against griefers
you made 10 tongs from the branches? i see your name on the item

maybe have a shortcut like shift to toggle the makers of items
if you see haalf camp is made by Hope, then you would go to Hope and ask her what you can help cause she can give you things

One Hour One Life Forums

#1 2019-04-27 16:42:20

The mechanics of the game prevent trade

#2 2019-04-27 16:56:39

Re: The mechanics of the game prevent trade

#3 2019-04-27 17:18:58

Re: The mechanics of the game prevent trade

#4 2019-04-27 17:43:13

Re: The mechanics of the game prevent trade

#5 2019-04-27 17:45:01

Re: The mechanics of the game prevent trade

#6 2019-04-27 19:35:42

Re: The mechanics of the game prevent trade

#7 2019-04-27 19:52:59

Re: The mechanics of the game prevent trade

#8 2019-04-27 20:08:17

Re: The mechanics of the game prevent trade

#9 2019-04-27 23:11:44

Re: The mechanics of the game prevent trade

#10 2019-04-28 23:14:58

Re: The mechanics of the game prevent trade

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