What would encourage trading?

fragilityh14 · 2019-04-03 16:55:57

one thing would be to make rare resources that are concentrated in specific places. this kind of exists with iron mines and gold, but I mean a lot more extreme, way harder to find but several in a place or whatever.

In terms of long distance trade, which i know isn't the primary concern, we need to be able to have a secondary marker so you can actually get back to places.

DestinyCall · 2019-04-03 17:09:34

jasonrohrer wrote:

Heck, even in modern times, barter is alive and well. My friend has a strawberry farm. He has this thing called "share picking," where you pick 21 pounds of strawberries, and get to keep 7 pounds for free. The other 14 pounds go to him, which he sells to customers at his roadside stand. 7 pounds of free strawberries is pretty tempting for a family on a budget. But it's barter, plain and simple. Classic share cropping, really.
Help me water all these carrots, and I'll keep you and your kid fed.... where's that even, in the game?

Share picking already exists, if you want to be honest. I farm some milk-weed and other people will grab some for their personal projects. I make a large batch of pies, I'm only planning on eating a few of them for myself, the rest will go to other people. Then when I need a carrot, I don't bother asking the carrot farmer before I grab some of this crop, because I just made a ton of pies. I know he is eating my pies, so I know it is okay for me to take some of his carrots. Neither of us need to waste valuable time asking "Hey man, is it okay if I have a carrot so I can make some compost so you and I can both farm some more crops?" "No? Oh .. umm okay, I guess I'll just go out and gather wild carrots all by myself then ..." The communal sharing that currently happens in an OHOL village is a very low-key form of trading. It is barter without all the useless talking. I do work, you do work, we both share the fruits of our labor and the village grows from our efforts. In the time it would take for me to hash-out the correct exchange rate for pies to carrots with the carrot farmer, I could have already made two compost piles and now all his carrots have gone to seed while we were talking.

The question is less "why don't we actively trade?" but more "why do you think life would be better if we wasted time actively trading?"

I don't think there's a need for trading at the inner village level. We don't have family units or personal houses or land ownership or even a single box we can call our own. I don't need money. The only think I truly own is the clothing on my back. That's another issue, but a deeper one that is going to be a lot trickier to fix without changing OHOL into a completely different kind of game.

As far as trading goes ... I think the first place you will see something that looks like real "trade" is not on the level of individuals trading stuff inside a village, but rather outposts trading supplies back and forth between a main town or central village.

Whatever · 2019-04-03 17:21:39

DestinyCall wrote:

The question is less "why don't we actively trade?" but more "why do you think life would be better if we wasted time actively trading?

Yes i agree.
In the perfect world everyone does what is best for everyone. No need to buy or sell things.
You get stuff for free and give stuff away for free.

jasonrohrer wrote:

Help me water all these carrots, and I'll keep you and your kid fed.... where's that even, in the game?

You feed the kid without condition, because you want to keep the town alive.
You water the carrots so your people can have carrots, no need to get something for it.

Last edited by Whatever (2019-04-03 17:24:39)

zed · 2019-04-03 17:33:37

jasonrohrer wrote:

what's with all this goddamned sharing.

If the aim is to shatter this communist utopia, I think the genetics idea was
the right one. As soon as players value their own children more than those of
their distant cousins, conflict will arise. I don't know how best to implement
it; a blunt approach which would probably work on many players would be just
to give each life a score according to how many babies your extended family
ever has after your birth, weighted according to relatedness to you.

Villas · 2019-04-03 18:24:09

High tech machines that takes at least 1 day to make and a lot of resources, that allows players to produce some high tech stuff. Like jeans, canned food, high tech backpacks and etc. So each town would have a unique kind of item that would interest to another town.

Iron is not that hard to find, if you take a horse you can easily find a lot of iron in less than five minutes.

Turnipseed · 2019-04-03 18:24:45

I love baking in this game, but it takes alot of space.

Now lets say i want to "sell" pies

I need to keep people from running off with fresh product.

I need to build a bakery i can lock myself inside, that is also large enough to produce pies.

Currently this takes a whole life to build. But lets assume i already have it and by some crazy luck i have the key too.

I need start up supplies wheat and meat. I ither "steal" it or spend 5-10 in game years (minutes) producing it

Ok now i can bake but at this point other than trading for supplies what would i get out of the deal.

I may as well just gather supplies from the shepard, the farmers, and the potters. And make pies for everyone.

In the current state theres nothing i want as a baker. Food is plentiful so cloths arent a must. I live in town so i dont "need" a backpack. Tools arent required other than a couple rocks..

How would it benifit me to put extra effort into trading when instead of typing i can just make more pies.

With our limited time in each life trading is only useful as roleplay.

I can spend 2 minutes explaining what i need from someone or take a minute and get it myself.

jinbaili83 · 2019-04-03 19:51:16

Trading inside village/family is hard to achive.
What about two villages - how do people even know there is one next to them.
If there is inhospitable biome like tundra or desert between them even small one probably noone will get close enough to see signs of their existance. Most people rearly go outside town.
I propose new navigation system instead of only home arrow add landmarks(huge rock,special tree etc.) that that give some indicator near screen border when you are close and help find way to remote places. Same with fires and maybe other special manmade structures.

But why would two civs want to trade? All players can create same goods .Excluding high tech like engines or radios that advanced town could mass produce. Before that stage all towns follow same tech tree.

What if families had access to pottery or clothing uniqe only to them, or domestication of animals and plants was much slower and required effort from whole comunity so you can't have all of them available in single lifetime and must focus on one and buy others from diferent village.

Last edited by jinbaili83 (2019-04-03 19:55:56)

jasonrohrer · 2019-04-03 20:05:57

Turnip, you summarize my point exactly with that example.

The cost of trading is so high, currently, that it outweighs any efficiency benefit.

Now, ignoring whether this is interesting gameplay, making pies all day, with the necessary materials brought directly to you, is certainly more efficient than running around creating or collecting the materials yourself. If we're thinking about long-term village survival, you are wasting food resources if you are wasting time. You could make 100 pies in your lifetime doing it solo, but 150 pies in your lifetime if you were trading and specializing. Suppose you burn the same amount of food during your life either way.

Furthermore, by trading instead of dumping the pies freely in the town square for all to share, you are ensuring that only productive members of the village get fed, which will reduce the long term load from freeloaders. Is someone worth feeding? Are they helping out? If they keep bringing you threshed wheat, you know they are. If they keep bringing you water, you know they are.

Now, perhaps the capital investment of walls and such is way too high relative to the short-term benefits. I.e., you just can't get over the startup hump. And it also might be boring to play this way (though people do seem to specialize, generally, for obvious efficiency reasons).

And because the village success really doesn't matter, the ultimate, most efficient structures don't matter either. Who cares if you make 100 vs 150 pies?

I suspect though, that if two families were competing long-term, the one that organized the most efficient social structure would triumph.

That is currently the case, if two families are competing for incoming babies during a downswing, the one with the warmest, longest-yum-chain mothers will triumph.

Glassius · 2019-04-03 20:39:11

You can Jason give us NPC guards, so even without building and locks we could protect our property. Make dogs feedable with any meat, even rabbit. Allow us to name them just like we name boys. Implement movement and guard commands. Give them ability to stand over items, just like players. Animals cannot stand over items.
- You are Jake! - You are now dog's owner
- Jake left! - dog is going on the tile just left from player. Let there be a basket, dog will stand over it, just like player
- Jake guard! - if somebody except owner will do any action with guarded item, dog will attack. Nice would be also growling or barking, if whoever will stand next to guarded tile.

This way dog will find use finally, ownership will be better protected and we will have a better chance for trade! Is there any disadvantage of this approach?

ryanb · 2019-04-03 21:27:16

I've seen personal trading before, but it involved trading a knife in a backpack for someone's coat. Both items were on the person and therefore considered owned by that person. If we improve the ownership situation then I think personal trading will come out naturally.

Locks and signs are the only ways I can think of for declaring ownership, and both are very cumbersome to use.

Regarding signs, what if we could create a Stand object which combines a box with a sign? Make an easier way to write on, perhaps similar to writing a note. One could then say "1 pie for 1 wheat" so customers then take the pie and leave wheat.

Regarding locks, managing keys is finicky. Is there a way to make keys invisible? Basically whoever first "locks" the item (closes the door or chest) would be the owner of the lock and the only one who can open it. If that person dies the lock defaults to its unused unowned state.

Glassius · 2019-04-03 21:33:41

Invisible, untradable locks are terrible idea! I want someday be offered a key to locked chest without knowing what is inside

The problem with lock, it is very easy griefing tool. To fight it, I proposed making lock installation a long, loud process. Details here, in section Access.

pein · 2019-04-04 08:57:22

i definitely think that the main problem is that walls are expensive

the other is that people like to build but don't like to gather
i had an experiment, well wasn't planned to be
i made a pen above the oven, i made it half adobe wall, it's same cost as oven base, same way you can water it
it takes a few seconds more to hit stakes once then put adobe

i had a cart of adobe at me, and some more digged up in swamp
first reaction: what is it? like how a building above us got in here
and what is the reaction to resources? they started to double up the adobe
wasn't even a noob player later i found out, on discord we talked about it, and as he described his line of thought, i kinda understood it, he didn't know, and was excited, was fun for him, wasted me a bit of time to finish the pen side, but actually people gathered around it and i could never finish my plan of making a bakery under it
i wanted half walls cause for a pen, functionality is first, half wall already blocks movement, later they can upgrade if they want to

in an other game i twin with Baker, he is a high apm player, and we got some history so we can work out our plans, we even had the blueprint in mind, we spawned in a city with basic tools, the plan was a room with a prison, where we enforce our kids to farm berries all their life

i was doing it fast but due to unforeseen things, we abandoned all kids until we finished and then we had one newbie who had one of his first games and we were too old already to have more and no way to get any other as the other females were to dumb to stay alive

so yeah, even with 2 experienced people and a plan we failed

back when pits were blocking and were kinda permanent, i was hoping on making some sort of rooms out of it, even shops, but people were more concerned about looks than function

so i definitely would say that buildings with private ownership are doomed to fail

the general reaction to a building: it's a waste of time, waste of resources, that's what they told me for a carrot teleporter which i made alone, gathered alone, built alone, while keeping all the females fed, the farms in shape

also ive been killed for "hoarding resources"
when al li did is crafted shovel and hoe for myself (even from iron i gathered in previous life)
and made a milkweed farm inside a grave walled room, it was even removable so anyone could have entered
not like it was locked
and i made buckets for the city and was killed for it

i mean if people do this cults, where they kill males for fun, grouped bully of others carries no risk if you got support

what about claiming free space, and other people need to approve it, it's just free space right?
then you could do whatever there and only you can enter it
then a box could serve for barter

but if you think about trade it needs a currency

so far only one time i seen currency: a guy made a spring and it could been bought a favor with it, like he would gather resources, but it never got used enough times to become a thing

and that's why we need virtual currency, an universal good
if the currency isn't physical, like they cannot take it from you, you can safely exchange it, and no one can screw you over
and it shouldn't be made too easy, to prevent hyperinflation
now i only can think about berry bowl with carrot
you can set up a room with one way entrance and a chest for trade behind a locked door so they cannot enter easy
the walls can only be ancient stone, maybe adobe, or newcommen bases (which is kinda expensive now) or bell towers
if not, people need to go along with the roleplay
you could compost inside, make pies, trade pies for water and berry bowls and carrot, or just berry bowls
the compost pays it's price, so you can even afford to hand over some soil and food
maybe scavenge lost clothes and sell it for berry bowls

the main problem is that making a small room even, takes a lot of time, and you cant run a pen and oven in a 3x3 room

and if you don't have walls people are like "reeeeeeeeeee, why don't you give me that backpack you made in 10 minutes, we are sharing"
"ree i need the upgraded cart not the others you made because im so important"
like only a few of us considers sponges a bad thing or even kill worthy

lot of people are like: oh hes just a kid, oh that doesn't make it deserve death
and most roleplayers act as newbee or harass you if you ever mention that they don't produce food or provide any help for the city survival

so yeah, my suggestion would be 2-3 butt logs per tree, or 2-3 boards per butt log, a way to make palisade walls, which are decaying but non removable, and some sort of code door which lets you in but not others

also a safe trading item, 2 boxes attached where a swap happens automatically when both parties accept it, and no way for others to take the items

you come with a pie, put in the trader box, the trader offers counter value, when both of you agrees, a trade takes place, when you grab the item, you place into your backpack and others got no way o take it from you
paranoid? yes, too detailed? not really, just enough
that's why rust has shop fronts and vending machines
trust nobody when it comes to business

other idea jason: have you ever considered predefined buildings?
you hit stakes with a new item, it gives you options, you can choose a sign and it shows a cost
now you dump the items into the tile and they get consumed, for example you would need 10 boards and flat rocks and stones and stuff, when you got everything, the shop gets built on the tiles, you can go inside your shop/market and start selling things

this way buildings could be simplified, maybe predefined nursery or sheep pen, bakery or forge setups
factorio has this sort of copy paste blueprints

so far the best manufacturing process i seen in games was stronghold crusader, where you could buy base materials, build fletcheries, sell the crossbows, and make profit on the process and investment cost
similarly in tropico you could farm or gather base materials, turn it into processed materials and further combine and turn it into more advanced and expensive stuff

until we get a currency, a way to trade safely and a way to build a shop fast we cant really trade
it will be all trust based and roleplaying only
and no one ever buy your backpack when he can just take it from you

the other notice: i think im a quite fast clicking player, and got the mental process to plan and execute it, and deal with problems on the way, im not the only one
now who has the right to build stuff and where, it's always a big question
i do it a lot of times, because others arent able too
we had some argument with dodge once, cause i had a plan of making a pen in an eve run but we barely made tools, and i blocked mosquitoes off jungle and 2nd life they already used that space for something else so we ended up arguing and people stealing my resources to build their stupid pen in a stupid spot

now this begs the question, who is the real leader?
cause i seen total newbee crowned and was confused on what should he "order" to others when he didn't even knows the basics
randomly choosing queens and kings wont work
maybe who is the fastest? maybe a government? maybe intimidating others?
most of old timers got mutual respect towards each other and they can lead a town and keep it safe
but lot of games people just live and let others live
so this sort of who is allowed to build question is still a big question

i would say marking an empty space, and people could approve or suggest different location, then when accepted, players would have the right to build there and own it, and others would be forced out, they could also claim other spots on their own
this would be quite democratic, still, considering that some of us made hundreds of structures, farm setups, our vote is not quite equal and majority votes wouldn't always be right

DestinyCall · 2019-04-04 17:05:39

jasonrohrer wrote:

Now, ignoring whether this is interesting gameplay, making pies all day, with the necessary materials brought directly to you, is certainly more efficient than running around creating or collecting the materials yourself. If we're thinking about long-term village survival, you are wasting food resources if you are wasting time. You could make 100 pies in your lifetime doing it solo, but 150 pies in your lifetime if you were trading and specializing. Suppose you burn the same amount of food during your life either way.
Furthermore, by trading instead of dumping the pies freely in the town square for all to share, you are ensuring that only productive members of the village get fed, which will reduce the long term load from freeloaders. Is someone worth feeding? Are they helping out? If they keep bringing you threshed wheat, you know they are. If they keep bringing you water, you know they are.

There are a couple of problems with this example.

It is true that specialization on pie production does increase efficiency and reduce wasted time. If the village baker is just spending his time in the kitchen putting together new pies, he can make many more pies in his lifetime than if he needs to go out and farm his own wheat and slaughter his own sheep and transport all the ingredients back to the bakery himself every time he wants to make a batch of pies. But that isn't a question of trade, necessarily. Or if it is, we already have this kind of trade in the game in its current state. As the village grows, certain people start doing specialized jobs, like wheat farming, sheep-tending, and carting around goods, all by themselves without being paid for their services. Simply because experienced players can see that village doesn't have enough wheat or the meat is piling up in the sheep pen or there are not enough compost piles, so they will work to fix the problem.

What we do NOT have in the current meta is a way (or a good reason) to withhold pies from people who do not directly contribute to pie production. Implementing a system where you must work to eat might sound like a good idea on paper, but in practice it is fraught with problems. What happens if you are a new player who can barely understand the controls? You are effectively a child and cannot work on the same level as an experienced player. Yet you require the same amount of food (or more) to stay alive. What happens if you are an old man, too weak and infirm to work the fields? Since your productive life is over, should we stop feeding you? What happens if you are a child and you are too far from the berry patch. You just need one bite of pie to live, but you haven't done any work to "pay" for the meal yet. What if you are a fertile woman, in the middle of a baby boom, and you can't stop pumping out babies long enough to do any work, yet feeding all these kids is draining away your hunger bar at an alarming rate? No work, no pies. Sorry, baby mama. Should have let a few of the runts starve, I guess. What if you are the town smith, working hard to produce tools and parts so the village can chop wood, dig new wells, and build walls, but you have done nothing to help the baker make his pies? Do you deserve a pie for your efforts, even though they probably won't directly benefit this generation of pie-makers? Perhaps you should wait to eat until someone bakes bread using water from a well that you helped to dig or until someone starts the oven with kindling made using one of your axes. What happens if you are a role-player who dreams of being a mighty wolf hunter and clothing the whole village in wolf hats? Your chosen job has nothing to do with pies or pie production. It does not directly benefit the baker. In fact, it makes his job less necessary by reducing food consumption. Maybe he should withhold pies from you, since you are undercutting his sales.

My point is that if you judge people based on just the part of their life that directly touches on your small piece of the village, (how much help did they give me when I wanted to bake some pies?) you miss a large amount of the greater picture. You would be potentially starving people that should be getting food and creating new problems for the village - like dead children and desperate wolf-hunters with knives. Based on your examples for earlier, I suspect that you are hoping to create these kinds of problems - a starving mother, desperate to feed her kids, kills the baker and takes his pies for herself! But why would we want that to happen in our village? There is no reason that the mother or the old man or the new player or even the baker should have to die( or become desperate enough to kill). Eliminate the need to provide "payment" to receive food and everyone gets to eat as long as there is food in the village. More production efficiency, less manufactured drama.

And that isn't even the main problem with thinking of trade as an "improvement" on efficiency. We already have different professions working together to improve village efficiency by focusing on individual steps in the production process. What we don't have is an economy where the end products of labor must be purchased by the end-users. This adds a new (and currently unnecessary) step in the production process.

Getting help from other people when you want to bake pies will increase your speed of production, but throwing your pies down in the middle of the village and letting other people grab pies on-the-go if they need them is MUCH faster than trying to actively sell pies to potential customers. You would basically need to create a "retail front" for your bakery and have someone else out there selling pies while you bake. In other words, you need a different person doing the "trader" job, while you focus on the "baker" job. In a small village, the addition of ANOTHER highly specialized job that does not directly contribute to production is very inefficient. The closest that we currently have to this kind of profession is a carter or food distributor. Someone who moves the baskets of finished pies out of the bakery and distributes them to work areas so that people don't need to walk all the way to the bakery to eat. For greater efficiency, they might use a cart and go around cleaning or gathering up other items after their load of pies is gone. This is a very useful job, but it is often skipped, because even without the added complication of currency exchange, this is a job that allows other workers to work more efficiently, but it doesn't produce anything new directly. So this is a job that only really gets done in a well-organized, high-population town where most of the other important tasks are already getting done by other people. In a smaller village or camp, the baker must wear more hats and is less specialized on just baking pies all day long because there are fewer other people around to help ease the burden.

The more I think about it, the more I feel like you are looking for a solution to a problem that simply doesn't exist. Micro-trading is alive and well in our villages. We work and we share and we watch out for people who are not working or not sharing because that usually means they are going to be trouble. This kind of trading is already a big part of village life. We just don't sit down to negotiate out how much work you must do and what kind of work counts toward earning pies or worry about withholding pies from certain people based on their life choices. If we think you don't deserve any pie, we will stab you. Problem solved.

Last edited by DestinyCall (2019-04-04 17:53:07)

Booklat1 · 2019-04-04 18:36:43

DestinyCall wrote:

The more I think about it, the more I feel like you are looking for a solution to a problem that simply doesn't exist. Micro-trading is alive and well in our villages. We work and we share and we watch out for people who are not working or not sharing because that usually means they are going to be trouble. This kind of trading is already a big part of village life. We just don't sit down to negotiate out how much work you must do and what kind of work counts toward earning pies or worry about withholding pies from certain people based on their life choices. If we think you don't deserve any pie, we will stab you. Problem solved.

Yes. If Jason wants us to withold goods it must be because they're made needed for our own survival.

Of course i give pies away, I can make dozens in few minutes, with a single oven use. Bakers are never worried on assuring their own survival cause all is plenty.

Spockulon · 2019-04-04 23:43:49

ryanb wrote:

...
Regarding signs, what if we could create a Stand object which combines a box with a sign? Make an easier way to write on, perhaps similar to writing a note. One could then say "1 pie for 1 wheat" so customers then take the pie and leave wheat.
...

I like this idea quite a bit. I think having a designated receptacle (only word I could think of) for trading in this way could be enough to push more players to barter and trade, at least on a small scale.

BladeWoods · 2019-04-05 01:21:07

I think time in this game is so precious that we don't have the time to trade. Trading your wheat for pies from the privately owned bakery would require finding the guy that owns the bakery and bartering with him. Meanwhile you're starving and not being productive.

Last edited by BladeWoods (2019-04-05 01:22:43)

Tarr · 2019-04-05 03:31:58

I liked the idea someone posted in discord of different colored horses. Make them rare so you can't just force breed 100 horses and have 10 of each type possible so they have an actual value. Having rare cosmetic differences makes it so when you see one of these special horses you say "wow I bet that took forever to get" and thus gives it some sort of intrinsic value over a normal brown horse. If you don't want these rare occurrences to only be cosmetic upgrades do stuff like upgraded crops that either grow faster/grow more/etc. You would want to trade these rare crop seeds for more common items since a second village could skip the rng part of breeding better plants which leads to their town getting better much sooner than it normally would.

No one is going to trade common resources for other common resources unless they're being silly. If it takes me a few minutes to collect something why in the world would I spend 5 minutes trading for it?

Grim_Arbiter · 2019-04-05 03:58:43

Tarr wrote:

I liked the idea someone posted in discord of different colored horses. Make them rare so you can't just force breed 100 horses and have 10 of each type possible so they have an actual value. Having rare cosmetic differences makes it so when you see one of these special horses you say "wow I bet that took forever to get" and thus gives it some sort of intrinsic value over a normal brown horse. If you don't want these rare occurrences to only be cosmetic upgrades do stuff like upgraded crops that either grow faster/grow more/etc. You would want to trade these rare crop seeds for more common items since a second village could skip the rng part of breeding better plants which leads to their town getting better much sooner than it normally would.
No one is going to trade common resources for other common resources unless they're being silly. If it takes me a few minutes to collect something why in the world would I spend 5 minutes trading for it?

+1

You wanna see trade? Make an couple uber rare items.

antking:]# · 2019-04-05 04:02:59

And why would you trade theirs uber rare items instead of herding it? and what would be so "rare" and useful that people will be willing enough to trade it...

Sukallinen · 2019-04-05 04:20:12

Thing that hasn't been thought of (in trade)-free radios. Not current ones, but such as "our town has 12 steel,4 pies,cart,four baskets (or whatever) tied to this "radio" now (will disengage in three hours), who wants it swaps it to cart,8 gold,4 rope or more". However I see no way to implement this... Also, the message should of course give distance and arrow easily, next to home-marker. It could be faster to implement than most suggested stuff (excluding rare biomes), but thinking about population online at any given time I wonder if large scale wars (as suggested) or such are feasible. This could be, as one single person could collect a cart and bind it to free radio.

Last edited by Sukallinen (2019-04-05 04:25:13)

Tarr · 2019-04-05 04:23:22

antking:]# wrote:

And why would you trade theirs uber rare items instead of herding it? and what would be so "rare" and useful that people will be willing enough to trade it...

Would you rather collect a bunch of iron in the wilderness or trade some random white horse you got while breeding for iron? If rare crops gave seeds to rare crops then why wouldn't you trade an ear of special corn for a bunch of stuff? You don't need more rare corn seeds once you have it so it's better off as trade fodder for someone who doesn't have it yet.

antking:]# · 2019-04-05 04:35:56

Tarr wrote:

trade some random white horse you got while breeding for iron

I think you made an error here I don't think you can breed iron

DestinyCall · 2019-04-05 05:05:19

antking:]# wrote:

Tarr wrote:
trade some random white horse you got while breeding for iron
I think you made an error here I don't think you can breed iron

You just have to sweet-talk it a little.

antking:]# · 2019-04-05 05:12:22

DestinyCall wrote:

antking:]# wrote:
Tarr wrote:
trade some random white horse you got while breeding for iron
I think you made an error here I don't think you can breed iron

You just have to sweet-talk it a little.

huh, I'm guessing I can get a uni-corn out of shucked corn, too?

futurebird · 2019-04-05 05:22:53

Destiny I think your long response makes a lot of sense. A factor in things like currency and trade is the population. A population of fewer than 150 on the server and maybe 8-24 in a village just isn't large enough for money or trade to make sense. Trade works in real life because I can buy things from people I don't know anything about and because specialization is so much more extreme. I have a friend who writes the text that goes on bottled water and other packages. That's it.

A problem with specialization in this game is people get bored and they die. I might be the super fast pie-making champ, but I hardly ever want to do it for my whole life. I do it if it isn't being done or if I want fancy pie for yum chains, or to teach, then I move on. That's part of what is more fun about the game than real life you don't have to just stay in your niche. You can be all about doing one thing well, or try something new.

And I would not want the "lazy" people to starve given the population rates in most towns. People are the most valuable resource. The biggest way someone can hurt a town is by killing people or making people not want to stay by being a jerk. Towns die mostly because of too few people. And when a town looks like it's empty it gets harder to get babies to stay. I think a large portion of the player base, especially newer people wants to be in a town because there are people there. So even the people arguing over crowns and doing nothing are valuable. They are entertainment. A billion dollar industry in the real world.

I mean we don't want the game to be JUST like real work? UGH I have a real job with limitations and not getting to try new things as much as I want etc. I don't want to be locked in to always doing one thing unless there is some kind of tech advancement so the learning process that's part of the game would keep moving forward.

One Hour One Life Forums

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