for the last time shearing that last sheep

futurebird · 2019-03-13 04:39:56

Since the update I've been running in to people who think it's still fine to shear the last sheep. (I don't think so since there are no babies to feed then, and you have to waste a bowl of sheep food to get the wool back when ready to breed, if I'm wrong correct me) I even met one player who was quite rude about it even though I and her daughter we very nicely saying "please don't do this, it wastes food."

But, she was convinced she was right and when she did notice that lack of babies she said it was better because there was "less clutter"

now this isn't the only person I've ran in to who shears all the sheep and gets annoyed "its not like that anymore!" when you say anything about it.

I know it has changed, but is my info out of date?

I just let them do their thing if they don't want to listen, but I also stop working to increase the number of sheep its no fun feeding just to get the wool back then doing it again for more sheep.

Why do people get so annoyed over this. LOL.

Lily · 2019-03-13 05:23:53

Honestly I wouldn't stress over this. Sheep food isn't that expensive and it doesn't take very long for a new baby sheep to show up. You got to pick your battles. If the worst thing happening in your village is people are a bit too eager to shear the sheep, you are doing just fine.

Last edited by Lily (2019-03-13 05:24:30)

Psykout · 2019-03-13 06:37:13

Now that sheep produce dung whenever fed, it is indeed less of an issue. Basically you can balance wool/mutton/compost a little easier. If the is plenty of mutton around and food isn't a huge issue, no need to overload the camp with baskets of mutton laying around. Obviously feeding a baby, getting the dung, shearing the baby and butchering it is the most ideal, but it no longer stops the compost cycle like before. If someone was attempting to grief they would try and shear the last sheep repeatedly before it could produce a baby, thus stopping compost. Also if there is plenty of soil and mutton, and no one is full time baking and shepherding, not having every tile in the pen filled with dead lamb is actually nice.

DestinyCall · 2019-03-13 06:55:58

I'd only worry about it if you need mutton for pie production.

Personally, I always like to make more sheep because it produces a really nice pie filling, but if the bakery is full of mutton, it is less work for the shepherd to skip sheep slaughtering.

pein · 2019-03-13 07:38:02

you need lambs, sometimes you need multiple lambs, like for making an apron
slowing down others or slowing meat production can still be bad

my bitch mom stabbed me for killing naked sheep
like they give poop but no meet, so its just bad

breezeknight · 2019-03-13 07:40:25

the solution is simple to what bugs you

born into a town head asap for the sheep, if there are only few, feed the young, so they can multiply
then you don't need to worry that much about the last sheep being shorn

& about other players being unreasonable
two solutions depending on what you prefer :

A) you kill them
B) you ignore them

with time they will either learn or stop playing

- - -

Last edited by breezeknight (2019-03-13 07:45:35)

CrazyEddie · 2019-03-13 15:07:59

Psykout wrote:

Obviously feeding a baby, getting the dung, shearing the baby and butchering it is the most ideal, but it no longer stops the compost cycle like before. If someone was attempting to grief they would try and shear the last sheep repeatedly before it could produce a baby, thus stopping compost.

This is it. It's about breaking the compost cycle, which is no longer an issue.

Other than that, how many naked sheep / wooly sheep / butchered sheep you should have is a matter of preference, and should be based on the relative demand and supply of dung, meat, wool, and free space in the pen. There's no single correct answer, and should be left to the discretion of whoever is actually doing the work to keep the pen clear.

If there's plenty of mutton, there's no need to kill and butcher sheep; the mutton takes up space in the village and the mutton and sheep bones take labor to remove from the pen. If you're not butchering sheep, there's no need to feed lambs; feeding lambs without butchering sheep just crowds the pen and takes away free space needed to work (to set down baskets, carts, and tools). If you're not feeding lambs, then there's no need to ensure that there's a woolly sheep ready to produce lambs. Hence no need to worry about shearing the last sheep.

futurebird · 2019-03-13 15:36:39

Thanks for explaining it makes more sense now why people are doing the shearing. I just enjoy feeding baby sheep more, I guess. It was frustrating to feed the same sheep 3 time and come back to have it sheared by someone making a sweater when I wanted to get more sheep for the pies. I guess that person just needed wool more.

CrazyEddie · 2019-03-13 15:52:35

Make no mistake - if there's not an oversupply of mutton then it's definitely wrong to feed adult sheep and to shear the last sheep. If you need mutton, you want to leave sheep woolly so they make lambs, you want to feed only lambs and not naked sheep, and you want to kill and butcher sheep right after you shear them. And you don't want to shear the last frickin' sheep! Or even the last two or three! Let them make lambs.

As a shepherd your goal should be to have a modest supply of dung, mutton, and wool at all times, and to manage the pen accordingly.

fragilityh14 · 2019-03-13 16:33:23

it's so, incredibly, out of control, annoying when you're trying to keep a sheep pen clean and people won't stop feeding sheep. there's dung everywhere, sheep can't move, you can't set a basket down to even begin working in the pen, and people will still be there feeding sheep and getting pissed about you sheering the last one.

Seriously, worst case scenario you have to feed a sheep to produce the dung.

Even before, i don't think not sheering the last sheep was nearly as big of a deal as anyone made it out to be. Worst case scenario you're paying 6 berries and a carrot for a small ball of thread [AND dung now], which is what...8 uses?

i'm also of the view that lambs growing up shouldn't give dung anymore, I really don't think mutton pie should be such a direct byproduct of the compost cycle, it should cost _something_ more than what you pay to get the dung.

of course, this does make the wool a byproduct, but that is more true to life, if you're keeping a sheep for manure, you can still sheer it.

futurebird · 2019-03-13 16:47:46

Feeding the sheep is fun, and it helps use wild berries effectively. I'll normally go out to the edge of town and empty all the wild bushes to one or two berries and bring those to the sheep. Keeping the pen clean always seemed hopeless, the moment it's neat it will be messy again soon because there always need to be more sheep killed to keep the pies coming. More often I come to a pen and there is only one sheared sheep in there and no dung and I need meat and dung and its a long slog to get there.

breezeknight · 2019-03-13 16:52:20

if the pen is cluttered then
take a shovel, move poo outside
take a basket move bones outside
take shears, shear sheep, move wool outside
take a cart, load four bowls with berries & carrot & feed the sheep

or maybe even enlarge the pen, so it's no more cluttered ?

if there are too many people working in one workplace, find something else to do
if you don't want to, kill the others

btw
i am still waiting for a comback of use for the worms
i hope it won't be just tequila

- - -

Last edited by breezeknight (2019-03-13 16:54:09)

fragilityh14 · 2019-03-13 16:59:48

yeah but people are so bitchy about iron use, isn't it widely considered a waste of a shovel use to set dung down on anything but a wet compost pile?

Certainly wastes more iron than sheering the sheep and having to feed one when you want new lambs.

happynova · 2019-03-13 17:25:57

Yeah, I would say don't waste shovel by moving poop out of the pen. If there's too much dung cluttering the pen, the best thing you can do to fix that is to make compost with it! You can never, ever have too much compost.

CrazyEddie · 2019-03-13 17:44:39

Yeah, don't move poop twice. If the pen fills up with poop and sheep and there's no free space, just start treating it like a gooseberry farm that produces wool.

But if you're making mutton, it's SOOOO much better to have some free space so you can set down baskets and carts. In that case it might be worth using up some shovel charges just to make some space if there's no compost piles ready for poop.

Also, when you're making compost, remember that it's better to make the compost near where it's going to be used rather than near the pen. It's one trip to bring poop from the pen to the compost, but multiple trips to bring soil from the compost to the farm.

breezeknight · 2019-03-13 18:04:48

WHAT ?

first you complain about the pen cluttered
but then presented with a solution you complain about wasting iron ?

so what is it ?

may i remind you - OHOL IS A GAME
things done here which are not explicit griefing, aka done to anger other players, are part of the gameplay !!!

if things are cluttered, you use tools available to improve them
Jason introduced decay, decay is part of the game
ask Jason, again, to improve the iron situation, if you think iron is short
& don't ask me to change my need to improve the clutter situation by wasting my RL time by doing stuff in a game i don't want to - like being forced to make compost when i don't want to !

the result of that way of thinking will be - players will stop playing !!!

this is a game !

- - -

Last edited by breezeknight (2019-03-13 18:05:21)

futurebird · 2019-03-13 18:24:53

I think she gets that it's a game, I think the points about keeping the pen more tidy make sense and it helps me to understand why some people just keep all the sheep sheared even though I'd rather have the chance to feed the little lambs. And that's fine there will be a compromise.

Also please put the shovel back by the sheep, don't just leave it by the new compost pile which could be ... anywhere. And for the love of god if you use a shovel for any other task return it to the pen quickly. Nothing is quite like making a new shovel only to find the old one out by some elaborate grave site with a stone and flowers. (cute I like it, but bring the shovel back please. )

fragilityh14 · 2019-03-13 19:12:13

the solution is to shear the last sheep while you clean up the pen, it works fine, as long as people don't keep feeding the sheep for no reason. If there's adequate mutton and adequate poop, there is no reason to keep an unshorn sheep producing lambs.

It was a pretty stupid rule in the first place, because a bowl of berries and carrot was never expensive, the ROI is huge.

Even if you don't get the 4 mutton, one ball of thread is 7 uses. So 14 milkweed if you were to do it that way. So, the iron only gets used on the berry once, besides whatever small percentage is used to make 1 soil [a compost which is 27 soil is what, 2 1/5 iron uses, plus the one 3 1/5 water], it's 1/5th an iron use for the carrot and 1/5th soil, 1/5th water. so you're talking about using 1 1/5 water, 1/5th iron, + the cost of 1 1/5th soil to get a ball of thread. [and then the cost of the sheers, but you'd generally be using those anyway if you were slaughtering]

If you were to do this with milkweed, it would be 28 soil, 14 iron, 14 water.

The point is, it may be technically inefficient to EVER feed a shorn sheep, but a single bowl of berries and carrots is a minuscule price to pay for a functional sheep pen. And it's _very_ common to have a ton of mutton [even if people will still get on your case for baking it outside of a pie]

futurebird · 2019-03-13 19:17:23

I have never been baking and had "enough mutton" It's the first filling to go because it's easy to put in. I don't even bother to put the mutton in the pies, I just make dough and check there are enough plates in there and the pies just appear.

fragilityh14 · 2019-03-13 20:19:20

I don't really know how to respond to that, I've been in tons of situations where there is mutton all over the place. 20 piles of poop lying there, dead lambs all over the place, and people won't stop feeding the damn things. i've spent a whole life trying to keep the sheep pen clear because people wouldn't stop feeding them. It takes like 15 seconds to get a bowl of berries and carrots, the lamb grows up really fast, you can have mutton production going again in no time. if the person doing the work of the sheep pen wants to sheer the last sheep that's his or her prerogative.

Granted, someone showing up out of nowhere and shearing the last sheep when you don't want it done is still annoying, but that's true of any situation where people get into your business, and if you're actually being a shepherd you probably have time to feed a lamb anyway.

CrazyEddie · 2019-03-13 21:03:00

futurebird wrote:

I have never been baking and had "enough mutton" It's the first filling to go because it's easy to put in. I don't even bother to put the mutton in the pies, I just make dough and check there are enough plates in there and the pies just appear.

That might just mean that nobody was hauling meat from the pen to the bakery. In my experience it's very common that meat gets produced much faster than pies consume it and you end up with a huge oversupply... but nobody likes hauling the meat from where it gets produced to where it gets consumed.

futurebird · 2019-03-13 21:20:27

I'm generally the one who does the hauling. Which is why I also feed sheep.

betame · 2019-03-13 22:11:27

I'm curious how this plays out.

The byproduct of compost is at least wool and wheat. That wheat must be baked anyway, even if there's not the perfect amount of mutton matching it. Is there usually an abundance of rabbit meat to fill the gap? Should the wheat become bread?

Bakers: what is the best way to use the byproduct wheat?

Essentially, if mutton costs zero resources, is mutton filling worth the work (moving meat, bones, losing 6 tiles to dead lambs) vs its alternatives?

DestinyCall · 2019-03-13 22:40:40

Meat pies are better than bread on a pips per wheat basis. Significantly better, actually.

So if you have mutton or rabbit meat, that should be your first choice. If mutton production lags behind and you do not have enough rabbit to fill the gap, you should slaughter more sheep or hunt more rabbits. In the meantime, bake some bread.

In my opinion, mutton is absolutely worth the work. But you can sometimes run into a situation where the village have a huge amount of rabbit meat and plenty of mutton already and not enough plates to make more pies. It is a good problem to have ... as long as it doesn't mean the swamp is too small and you are seriously lacking clay deposits. At this point, it might make sense to slow or temporarily halt mutton production while someone gathers clay for more plates and bakes bread on the few remaining plates. Once you have more plates, you can start ramping up meat pie production again.

The only major downside to excessive mutton production is dealing with all the uncooked meat and sheep bones. If all you need is poop for compost, feeding adult sheep is easier. But almost any village will benefit from free food. So feeding baby sheep is usually the better choice.

BladeWoods · 2019-03-14 03:38:12

breezeknight wrote:

if the pen is cluttered then
take a shovel, move poo outside
take a basket move bones outside
take shears, shear sheep, move wool outside
take a cart, load four bowls with berries & carrot & feed the sheep
or maybe even enlarge the pen, so it's no more cluttered ?
if there are too many people working in one workplace, find something else to do
if you don't want to, kill the others

btw
i am still waiting for a comback of use for the worms
i hope it won't be just tequila
- - -

Taking a shovel and moving poo outside unfortunately wastes a lot of shovel usages. Not good to do.

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#1 2019-03-13 04:39:56

for the last time shearing that last sheep

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#3 2019-03-13 06:37:13

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