Tips for Eve camp

golmock · 2019-02-19 20:48:21

game still hard. It's really annoying.
But I found the tip through a few eve plays.
Im writing on the assumption that you were a good eve before the update.

When you settle down, you have to consider a lot of water, a lot of soil, and specialy maaaany food.
Generation 1 ,2 should start farming as soon as possible. There is no time.
If you are an adult, leave food near the camp for children or mother.
Find out where little away from home and have lots of food and fill your stomach.
It is also important to go far away from home and gather food before the first harvest.

I think it's something that everyone has done before the update.

Forget about Barry. Plant carrots.
because carrot yields fast.
If first farm, don't wait for the seeds.
It would be better to run to Savannah and bring some carrot seeds full of basket.
Continue planting the carrots, harvest and put them in the basket.

If you and your family were competent when the carrot baskets were piled up, they would be making omelets.
Now go to Savannah. It's time to find corn and soy seeds.
You'd better go back two or three times.
Dry the corn and make about two or three popcorns, and expand the corn farm.
Similarly, the bean seed crop is left behind and the green beans are harvested to secure food.
Don't forget to keep planting carrots.
Now it's time to find the pumpkin seeds. If you have a rabbit hunter in your family, bring wheat seeds.

Make pots and stews to secure adult meals.
Now you can plant berries.
Because Berry is a great emergency food and it is necessary to make lamb and conposts.
You don't have a sheep? It's time to make a sheep ranch.
But if you are a first or second generation, you will soon grow old and die.

And don't forget to do all the above, find a pro boy or man,
ask him for rabbit hunting and iron ore collection.

In summary, use water and soil for carrot farming.
And eat popcorn and green beans while making stew.
The foods we've forgotten before.

Last edited by golmock (2019-02-19 21:01:00)

Booklat1 · 2019-02-19 20:57:49

stop eating greenbeans,carrots make more food and seeds. planting few berries keeps you safe if you have no hoe. beans are incredibly wasteful compared to berries and even carrots and popcorn. if you hoe breaks because you farm green beans your camp is done.

Last edited by Booklat1 (2019-02-19 20:58:19)

golmock · 2019-02-19 21:03:27

Booklat1 wrote:

stop eating greenbeans,carrots make more food and seeds. planting few berries keeps you safe if you have no hoe. beans are incredibly wasteful compared to berries and even carrots and popcorn. if you hoe breaks because you farm green beans your camp is done.

Green beans and popcorn are not for filling your stomach, but for yam.
The main purpose is stew.

Grim_Arbiter · 2019-02-19 21:57:45

My tips for eveing right now is to find a massive green biome that meets a massive blue biome. Then make a kiln at the meeting of the biomes as the first thing and gather any rope you can next to it. Have kids on the outside of the green biome where there could also be bonus foods like bananas and cactus fruit. Show your kids your spot and say "base here" and run back to biome edge to feed and raise kids. When kids get hair bring them to kiln and they can help and all the food close to your start isn't taken.

Booklat1 · 2019-02-19 22:05:16

golmock wrote:

Booklat1 wrote:
stop eating greenbeans,carrots make more food and seeds. planting few berries keeps you safe if you have no hoe. beans are incredibly wasteful compared to berries and even carrots and popcorn. if you hoe breaks because you farm green beans your camp is done.

Green beans and popcorn are not for filling your stomach, but for yam.
The main purpose is stew.

so dont waste eating raw, yums not worth it unless you got a ton of other foods.

Spoonwood · 2019-02-19 23:13:05

I agree with this. Though, as someone else pointed out, this does increase tilling pressure. I doubt it will get adopted though even if the tilling pressure issue gets resolved. There have existed players who stream on Twitch like LostScholar (and I think the people who have played with him generally tend to agree) and 2LaughOr2Cry who have pretty much said this before. So, unfortunately, you seem to have revived an old argument that I think likely to get ignored and thus becomes hard to implement anywhere else than a low population server since if you're Eve persuading your children to do this becomes difficult. I hope I'm wrong though and families start taking it up more... at the very least so we can see how it compares to other strategies more thoroughly.

Last edited by Spoonwood (2019-02-19 23:15:16)

pein · 2019-02-20 00:15:26

so far as i seen one kid can merely survive in a medium size green biome
and has to be girl
i tried clothing rush but isn't too useful, as i miss out on everything else

even rushing backpack is bad for the other players
a pouch, skewers and start farming

i see the benefit of a huge green biome and like 2 ponds (eggs are ok and pouch can save you from making a lot of bowls at first)
so big size of the green biome(30+ wild bushes) and the soil pits close to a pond are enough to call a place home

DestinyCall · 2019-02-20 01:01:52

golmock wrote:

Forget about Barry. Plant carrots.
because carrot yields fast.
If first farm, don't wait for the seeds.
It would be better to run to Savannah and bring some carrot seeds full of basket.
Continue planting the carrots, harvest and put them in the basket.
If you and your family were competent when the carrot baskets were piled up, they would be making omelets.
Now go to Savannah. It's time to find corn and soy seeds.
You'd better go back two or three times.
Dry the corn and make about two or three popcorns, and expand the corn farm.
Similarly, the bean seed crop is left behind and the green beans are harvested to secure food.
Don't forget to keep planting carrots.
Now it's time to find the pumpkin seeds. If you have a rabbit hunter in your family, bring wheat seeds.

Make pots and stews to secure adult meals.

If you try this strategy, i recommend the following modifications. First, plan on making six deep rows. Four baskets of dirt and one skewer can make a farm this size, using two bowls of dirt to reduce tool cost. Any larger and the skewer will probably break. On your first trip, bring back two carrot seeds and one corn (teosinte) seed. Plant and water rows mmediately. Then head back out of another basket of seeds. This time, bring back one squash seed and two bean seeds. Plant them and water immediately.

By now, the carrots and corn will be ready. Harvest everything. Do not let the first carrots seed out. Shuck three corns, leave one ear unshucked. Let the other three dry out. Go get another basket of dirt and fix the hardened rows, then replant with corn when it dries. Do not harvest green beans. Let them mature into dry beans, you should be eating carrots, popcorn, and omeletes right now. Meanwhile, make sure you have a crockpot ready and then go gather more carrot seeds and another squash seed. By the time you get back, everything should be ready for stew. When you crack open the squash with the hatchet, DO NOT LOSE THE SEED. Squash seeds decay VERY fast. Either plant the seed or store in a bowl to save it for later. If you leave it on the ground, it will be gone forever. Replant the empty rows with carrot and squash. Then go make stew. You should have plenty of corn by now, but make sure it is getting harvested and dried. Do not eat fresh corn, unless you are in dire need.

Fast track stew production. It is easier to get going in first/second gen, compared with pies and much stronger than just berries. A good camp should have both now. Just do not waste the squash seeds!

WalrusesConquer · 2019-02-20 07:57:35

You can use a HATCHET for stew? Welp would have been nice to know

golmock · 2019-02-20 08:05:38

WalrusesConquer wrote:

You can use a HATCHET for stew? Welp would have been nice to know

Yes you can do that

stew · 2019-02-20 08:43:18

OP likes to rush farms. I however like to delay farms and focus on clothes. With clothes you can half the food consumption from your people -> natural food last much longer / berries have time to regrow, People have more time to work and need to worry less about eating all time, you also only need half the amount of farms to feed the same amount of people! -> again, frees up more worktime.

I think to start both are good, however next generations will maybe have a hard time if they have not enough clothes. They will put most of their worktime into creating food so that they don't starve the next 5min. This leaving much less time to advance.

golmock · 2019-02-20 08:52:20

stew wrote:

OP likes to rush farms. I however like to delay farms and focus on clothes. With clothes you can half the food consumption from your people -> natural food last much longer / berries have time to regrow, People have more time to work and need to worry less about eating all time, you also only need half the amount of farms to feed the same amount of people! -> again, frees up more worktime.
I think to start both are good, however next generations will maybe have a hard time if they have not enough clothes. They will put most of their worktime into creating food so that they don't starve the next 5min. This leaving much less time to advance.

I think clothes have become important with this update.
I tend to leave hunting and iron ore to my family.
Next time I am Eve camp, if you are my son or bro, I will depend on you.

Spoonwood · 2019-02-20 12:57:57

DestinyCall wrote:

By now, the carrots and corn will be ready. Harvest everything. Do not let the first carrots seed out. Shuck three corns, leave one ear unshucked. Let the other three dry out. Go get another basket of dirt and fix the hardened rows, then replant with corn when it dries. Do not harvest green beans. Let them mature into dry beans, you should be eating carrots, popcorn, and omeletes right now. Meanwhile, make sure you have a crockpot ready and then go gather more carrot seeds and another squash seed. By the time you get back, everything should be ready for stew. When you crack open the squash with the hatchet, DO NOT LOSE THE SEED. Squash seeds decay VERY fast. Either plant the seed or store in a bowl to save it for later. If you leave it on the ground, it will be gone forever. Replant the empty rows with carrot and squash. Then go make stew. You should have plenty of corn by now, but make sure it is getting harvested and dried. Do not eat fresh corn, unless you are in dire need.
Fast track stew production. It is easier to get going in first/second gen, compared with pies and much stronger than just berries. A good camp should have both now. Just do not waste the squash seeds!

So, the colony has wild berries, bowls for berries in a bowl, carrots, popcorn, and stew. That's (+ 1 2 3 4) = 10 yum. Eating shucked corn is 5 more yum, thus eating shucked corn for anyone keeping a yum chain going is like eating TWO pieces of shucked corn for anyone yum chaining. That's ignoring wild carrots and any other wild foods also. Thus, effectively you could think of it as a corn plant having 8 pieces of corn, which makes for (8 x 5) = 40 pips, which is better than a single berry bush which has 35 pips and takes 12 minutes to grow instead of the 4 minutes for corn. So, NO, I don't understand why you advise against eating shucked corn, when it seems clear that the limitation of the food supply makes eating shucked corn worth it. I didn't count the omelettes either, but those would make it even clearer that eating shucked corn makes sense (while still saving some to dry out for the stew... don't eat the last corn unless some corn is planted in my opinion... that's a no-no if you can avoid it). So, I really think that eating shucked corn would be worth it for someone keeping their yum chain going as much as they can in such a camp.

The same sorts of calculations would indicate that green beans would be worth it, since (x 4 6) = 24 and you only need 4 yum to effectively double its efficiency. Though, if you only have one bean planted, picking stew over green beans might be the better choice.

DestinyCall · 2019-02-20 16:39:31

Unfortunately, if you only have enough food to chain up to four yum, the chain is not long enough to justify extending it by eating fresh corn for a yum bonus. You should skip this bite and let your chain break if other options are not available.

When you eat unprocessed corn, it gives 5 pips. But if you process that corn into popcorn, it gives 12 pips. That one bite of fresh corn might give an extra +5 pips if eaten for yum when your chain is low, but there is a net gain of +7 "bonus" pips from processing alone. Also, if your village has other people who are actively yum chaining, turning your corn into popcorn is even better, because four people can benefit from the yum, instead of just one person. If your village does not have any other yummers, it is still great, because the total food available increases with processing.

Therefore, if you have eaten a bite of all available foods and must decide whether to break the chain or eat an ear of corn, it would be better to let the chain break rather than eat the corn, if your chain is low. And this is only accounting for using corn to produce popcorn, the least pip-dense processed food made from corn. The math is even stronger if you are able to process ears of corn into stew or milk.

The same holds true for beans. Making one bowl of green beans uses the same number of beans as making a crock of stew. If your village is low on food, eight bowls of stew, each with 14 pips of food, provides 224 pips of food, divided across sixteen unique bites. Not only is that a lot of food, it is a lot of links in potential yum chains for smart eaters. Your yum chain needs to be unreasonably high to justify consuming green beans for yum in a starving village. At the very least, you should prioritize making stew with your first crop of beans, rather than delaying stew production by making a bowl of green beans first.

This is why I would consider raw corn to be "emergency only" food. Not a yum food.

Last edited by DestinyCall (2019-02-20 16:46:45)

Peremptive · 2019-02-20 16:47:57

Like mentioned above, you need a large green biome with tons of milkweed, soil and berries, close to many ponds and preferably also close to many bunnies in savanna. So the intersection of these three would be perfect. Being super close to savanna could be a little risky because people will over-hunt the rabbits more easily.

You need to get 3-4 full sets of clothes early to protect people off the fire, so that is like 40 milkweed, not counting hatchet, firebow, other stuff. So obviously without ridiculous numbers of milkweed next to you, there is little hope. If you manage to also start up a forge early, getting firewood will make life so much easier.

If you can't live off foraging as an Eve with 5 people the town won't make it when there will be 15 people. So farming isn't really necessary right away, there is no time to do it, better to get clothes so you burn less food per second and you can set up farming at that point, when you will be able to work without breaks much more easily.

Last edited by Peremptive (2019-02-20 16:49:06)

futurebird · 2019-02-20 17:39:29

Peremptive wrote:

If you can't live off foraging as an Eve with 5 people the town won't make it when there will be 15 people. So farming isn't really necessary right away, there is no time to do it, better to get clothes so you burn less food per second and you can set up farming at that point, when you will be able to work without breaks much more easily.

This is a helpful tip. I didn't realize how important clothing was until after being Eve twice and not making it. Now I look for a seal, then focus on fire for the babies.

Anandamide · 2019-02-20 18:59:34

See, I think there needs to be balance. It takes no milkweed to club 4 seals. It only takes 8 to make some hats for everyone; while hunting rabbits, gather maybe two straw hats if you dont have a wheat farm. The food consumption per heat decreases exponentially, so the first clothing items will give the greatest bonus. Even ignoring hats and just clubbing a bunch of seals may even make more sense. Eve can easily club a seal first, make fire tools, then find the spot. Once a suitable spot is found, keep a baby, then run to tundra to make them a seal skin too. Make one more, both of you come back to camp, and then your child can begin setting up the farm or just gathering branches and dirt. Keep another baby, and by the time they are old enough, both can farm and you can go on a rabbit run for more clothes or backpacks.
graph

Spoonwood · 2019-02-20 19:41:55

DestinyCall wrote:

Unfortunately, if you only have enough food to chain up to four yum, the chain is not long enough to justify extending it by eating fresh corn for a yum bonus. You should skip this bite and let your chain break if other options are not available.
When you eat unprocessed corn, it gives 5 pips. But if you process that corn into popcorn, it gives 12 pips. That one bite of fresh corn might give an extra +5 pips if eaten for yum when your chain is low, but there is a net gain of +7 "bonus" pips from processing alone. Also, if your village has other people who are actively yum chaining, turning your corn into popcorn is even better, because four people can benefit from the yum, instead of just one person. If your village does not have any other yummers, it is still great, because the total food available increases with processing.

It sounds to me like you're saying a second popcorn bowl is warranted. In an Eve camp can you spare another bowl for popcorn, especially if you have one for green beans?

DestinyCall wrote:

The same holds true for beans. Making one bowl of green beans uses the same number of beans as making a crock of stew.

That really seems misleading. The stew needs more water and soil than the green beans, since you need the squash, the corn, and the beans for the stew. That's kind of also why overeating eggs is bad, but not the worst, since eggs don't require any soil or water.

Also, all of these pip calculations IGNORE overeating (by overeating I mean eating a food with X pips when you have a less than X pips deficit of food). Overeating will happen to a greater extent, especially with higher pip foods like stew than with popcorn. How does overeating get lowered? By yum chaining. Since anytime someone fills up their pip bar by eating and having a yum chian, they simply cannot eat until he or she loses their yum, and loses one more pip from their pip bar.

On top of that overeating stew is almost a certainty with children up to a certain age. That won't happen with popcorn, green beans, or shucked corn.

Spoonwood · 2019-02-20 19:49:38

I don't know... here's another idea. Smithing progression -> hammer -> axe -> chisel -> steel file blank -> steel blade blank and whatever else you can get before the fire goes out in the forge when making the steel blade blank. Make the knife and hunt the turkey and cook it after cooking some pies. I'm not saying that will work by any means. Just another idea to through out there, since turkeys don't require soil or water, and if you have a smart cook they can get cooked after the last pie in the current batch finishes. Yes, I know... it'll delay a shovel and steel hoe, a froe, adze, and maybe shears... but as I said, it's an idea. I have no idea if it's a good one.

Early knife also means that you can get an early horsecart if you say can get a froe and adze out in the same batch that you made the steel blade blank... and no need for shears or a pen for that. Just a wild sheep, a knife, a cart, and a lasso.

Last edited by Spoonwood (2019-02-20 19:55:04)

DestinyCall · 2019-02-21 08:55:43

Spoonwood wrote:

It sounds to me like you're saying a second popcorn bowl is warranted. In an Eve camp can you spare another bowl for popcorn, especially if you have one for green beans?

No, I'm saying you shouldn't make green beans at all. Instead, go make some stew. You should probably also go gather clay to make some more bowls if you are using any bowl-dependent foods or no one will be able to process the food into an edible form. There's never enough bowls/plates in an Eve camp. More are always welcome.

Ideally popcorn would be made when you need it, not all at once, like a batch of pies. Same with stew bowls. Leave it in the crock until someone needs to eat.

Spoonwood wrote:

DestinyCall wrote:
The same holds true for beans. Making one bowl of green beans uses the same number of beans as making a crock of stew.
That really seems misleading. The stew needs more water and soil than the green beans, since you need the squash, the corn, and the beans for the stew. That's kind of also why overeating eggs is bad, but not the worst, since eggs don't require any soil or water.

I don't understand the egg connection, but I can go into more detail regarding stew math, if you like. The short answer is ... even after you account for extra cost of farming squash and using one ear of corn, stew is still significantly better than green beans. Stew is also a better use for corn, but the math is more complicated because you only use one ear of corn, which is only one quarter of the output from a row of corn.

It might help to visualize the math if you imagine an Eve camp that has three deep rows prepared for crops. What should you plant in these rows to produce the best food supply for your hungry children? There are basically five "starter" crops that could be used to produce early food: carrots, berries, corn, beans, and squash. Four out of five can be consumed raw. Squash is the only one that requires processing to be edible and it has no other use beyond stew. Carrots produce five carrots and each carrot provides a single 7 pip bite for a total of 35 pips per row of carrots. If you planted carrots in all three rows, you get 105 pips of food. Carrots also grow quickly - the food would be ready for harvest in five minutes. Berries actually produce the same amount of food as carrots - but a berry bush has seven bites worth 5 pips each, equaling 35 pips per row and 105 pips for three planted berry pushes. Unfortunately, it takes a long time for berries to start producing. So you'll be waiting twelve minutes for the first harvest. Both of these crops are a good choice to feed your camp. Although I recommend planting carrots first to get a food buffer while you wait for the berries to mature. Keep in mind, berries do not require tilling to produce a second harvest (and a third and a fourth and so on). In an early camp, hoes can be in very short supply, so sometimes crops other than berries can be difficult to farm sustainably.

So what about corn and beans? Beans grow to maturity in just four minutes and, if they are harvested immediately, produce a single bowl of green beans with six bites worth four pips each. A single row is worth 24 points and three rows of green beans would yield just 72 pips. Noticeably less than carrots or gooseberries. Corn is also a fast growing crop. It produces four ears of corn which can be either eaten fresh for 5 pips or dried and popped to make a bowl of popcorn with 4 bites worth 3 pips each. A row of corn that is consumed as fresh corn yields 20 pips, so three rows that are consumed in this way would only provide 60 pips, the least of any starter crop. However, if all the corn is processed into popcorn the yield is much greater. You will get 12 pips per ear of corn, four ears of corn per row, so 48 pips per row. If you plant three rows of corn, you get 144 pips total, which is more than berry or carrot and twice as much as beans.

But what if you use those three row to grow stew crops instead? Now, instead of planting three rows all the same, we plant one row of squash, one row of corn, and one row of beans. You harvest the squash and put it in the crock pot. You let the corn and beans dry out. You process the beans and corn, add water, and put the the crockpot on hot coals. You now have a crock of stew that gives eight bowls of stew. Each bowl has two bites worth fourteen each, so the whole crockpot provides 224 pips of food. This is nearly double the result if you had planted nothing but corn and made a bunch of popcorn. Even better .. you didn't use up all of the corn that you planted to make the stew. You have three ears left over that could be turned into popcorn for an additional 36 pips, if you so desire.

Basically, even though it requires three different crops and some additional processing steps, you end up with a lot more food for your efforts than if you ate the base ingredients raw or after minimal processing. And from the standpoint of yum bonus, making stew provides the village with 16 bites of stew and 12 bites of popcorn. That's a lot of potential yum.

Spoonwood wrote:

Also, all of these pip calculations IGNORE overeating (by overeating I mean eating a food with X pips when you have a less than X pips deficit of food). Overeating will happen to a greater extent, especially with higher pip foods like stew than with popcorn. How does overeating get lowered? By yum chaining. Since anytime someone fills up their pip bar by eating and having a yum chian, they simply cannot eat until he or she loses their yum, and loses one more pip from their pip bar.
On top of that overeating stew is almost a certainty with children up to a certain age. That won't happen with popcorn, green beans, or shucked corn.

Honestly, over-eating doesn't matter as much as you might think. Just look at the math. Three rows of planted corn would only provide 60 pips if you eat the corn raw. So if you feed your toddlers shucked corn you are IMMEDIATELY wasting a ton of pips, just from the opportunity costs associated with not processing it into a better food. You could have made it into popcorn which is a much less wasteful food. In fact, if you are really worried about wasting food, popcorn is the best food for minimizing waste. It provides lots of small bites, so waste potential is low and it even manages to yield a good amount, since you get four ears from each tilled row.

But here's the thing ... if you make stew, you could dump every third bowl of stew on the ground uneaten and it would still yield more pips than an equal quantity of popcorn, without any waste. These foods aren't equal. Stew is much better so even if some people eat it when they are not very hungry or when they are too old or too young to fully appreciate the hearty flavors, it kind of doesn't really matter that much. I do not encourage people to waste food. You should eat when you are hungry and stop when your bar is mostly full. Don't be greedy or wasteful. However, the kind of waste that really bothers me is seeing someone eat a carrot or an ear of corn or striping all the berries off a bush when there's a row of stew crocks and a bunch of meat pies sitting in a basket right beside them. Eating high-pip density foods is a MUST for adults, because they can fully appreciate the tastiness. But I would rather see children eating pies than green beans. It's not just a question of the number of pips in the food itself, it is a question of the amount of resources and labor that had to go into making those pips and what other things could have been achieved with a little effort. The five pips in a shucked ear of corn might not seem like much, but they represent a lot of wasted potential.

Peremptive · 2019-02-21 13:03:09

one corn plant gives more food and grows faster than berries, but you have to retile, no? berries are the backbone of cities where new people are bound to eat inefficiently, because they are the least iron-intensive crop. Previously when towns had no more than 20-30 bushes, they could all have been planted using skewers and have fed the city for days with zero tools broken.

All crops raw only give slightly more food than berries, at the cost of an extra tile making them worthless. Always good foods are berry, berry in bowl for the no iron consumption, and then the various advanced foods like stew, sauerkraut, bread, buttered bread, milk, skim milk, and the two meat pies. In smaller numbers, for the people yumming, popcorn and meat+berry pies (although I know some people disagree) might be worth it.

As mentioned above, the meat pies are almost free food. A meat pie costs wheat and mutton, which are byproducts of composting, plus one water. Or wheat and rabbits, which now you should have fields full of. I know I have 6 boxes full of pies in my solo village and I am always tempted to just keep two in my backpack with me and never bother yumming.

I am also not saying I never eat corn/carrot/beans raw. I do it, usually in my solo village, especially if I am planning on going scouting. I have so much food, I prefer the slightly higher yum for the extra free time, despite knowing I am probably wasting a few pips. But I suspect people being forced to eat carrots/corn raw to not starve in towns since the update is a major factor leading them to unsustainability and collapse.

Last edited by Peremptive (2019-02-21 13:15:52)

DestinyCall · 2019-02-21 14:59:54

Peremptive wrote:

one corn plant gives more food and grows faster than berries, but you have to retile, no? berries are the backbone of cities where new people are bound to eat inefficiently, because they are the least iron-intensive crop. Previously when towns had no more than 20-30 bushes, they could all have been planted using skewers and have fed the city for days with zero tools broken.

Yes, that's correct. Although the iron usage is a long-term cost that won't be felt for many generations, the cost in terms of tool-use is immediately relevant.

Berries are a great option for early camps because a patch of gooseberry bushes only requires tilling when you plant new bushes. Renewing the bushes has a similar water/soil cost as restoring the hardened rows produced by corn, beans, or carrots, but those other crops all require the use of a skewer/stone hoe/steel hoe to re-plant. Since berries are not replanted, they do not require re-tilling of the soil so tool-use is minimal. So long as the berry patch remains reasonably small, it is a much lighter drain on limited resources.

In a eve camp, you are usually depending on skewers or stone hoes because you have not yet accessed steel. In that case, skewers are preferable since the rope required to make a stone hoe has many better uses, like making a bow or snare for hunting animal hides for clothing. But both skewers and the milkweed required for stone hoes are fairly limited. If people are using wasteful farming practices - like tilling a single bowl of dirt (which creates a shallow row instead of a deep row and requires a second tool-use) or letting too many carrots go to seed or making new berry bushes instead of renewing languishing bushes - the drain on available tools will become quite noticeable. At that point, it will be a priority to rush the steel hoe, since farming milkweed to make more stone hoes is inefficient.

Keep in mind, this means that a small, well-maintained berry patch is superior to a large, sprawling field of berries. It is almost always a better idea to renew the existing bushes rather than planting new bushes, since planting a new bush is more costly and generally not necessary. Also, since working a berry field requires placing down bowls on an empty tile, wide fields are harder to work than smaller or narrower fields. There is a tendency for "helpful" people to continuously extend the fields because they see dirt sitting next to a berry patch with a lot of languishing bushes and assume that the village needs more bushes. Or they think the dirt was placed there with the purpose of establishing a new row of fresh bushes to help sustain the growing village. In most cases, it would be better to use that dirt on the languishing berries and then check on the main food supply to figure out why the berries are getting over-used.

Empty bushes are usually an early warning that something is wrong with the soil/water/meat/wheat supply chain in the village. It will take 12 minutes to get berries from a newly planted bush, while baking a single rabbit pie will provide almost double the pips and usually takes a fraction of the time, especially when some of the ingredients are already present.

Peremptive wrote:

I am also not saying I never eat corn/carrot/beans raw. I do it, usually in my solo village, especially if I am planning on going scouting. I have so much food, I prefer the slightly higher yum for the extra free time, despite knowing I am probably wasting a few pips. But I suspect people being forced to eat carrots/corn raw to not starve in towns since the update is a major factor leading them to unsustainability and collapse.

The rules change quite a bit when you are soloing. In that case, you have the option to just mass-produce pies or play around with yum to your heart's content. Since you are the only one eating or making food, it is very easy to manage your yum foods and the efficiency of production becomes largely irrelevant since you are the only one utilizing the products of your labor. Even if you plan on living in the same spot for many lives, you will never have as deep an impact on available resources as a forty generation lineage village on a multiplayer server. So you don't have to worry about running out of wild food as quickly or depleting available soil/water resources too fast or running out of milkweed early because someone made a second bow by mistake (unless you get forgetful in your old age...) You can also make every variety of pie without minding the food waste, because you can be certain that you'll be able to gain it back by chaining yum really high. Variety pies are really awesome food for solo Eves, since they are high-pip density, multi-bite and very portable.

In a multiplayer village, regardless of size, you have to assume that most people are not utilizing yum bonus at all time. You have to assume that some people are ignorant of less common foods or less visible foods (like popcorn or stew in a bowl or different types of pie). You have to assume that sometimes, the wrong person will eat the wrong food and waste some pips. By making processed foods that provide a large surplus of "bonus" pips up-front, you are providing a strong buffer against wasteful eating practices while also providing solid options for the more efficient eaters.

Meat pies should always be high priority. Stew is another good option, but it is limited by being stationary and bowl-dependent. Burritos lose out to pies in the fight for wheat and lose out to stew in the fight for beans, so avoid this option unless you just enjoy making burritos (which I personally do). Try not to eat raw foods when there are better options available, especially as an adult. But when famine strikes ... you can expect it to be a free-for-all. Everything will get eaten. Nothing will be spared.

However, if eating an ear of corn means you stay alive long enough to bake a fresh batch of meat pies or get a crockpot of stew onto a bed of coals, then it is a net gain for your village. The key point is these low effieciency foods are best reserved for true emergencies. If you have time to wait for the corn to dry and a free bowl for making it into popcorn, that is going to be the better option.

Last edited by DestinyCall (2019-02-21 15:53:30)

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Tips for Eve camp

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