One Hour One Life Forums

fragilityh14

Member

Registered: 2018-03-21

Posts: 556

Being naked in the desert never should have been ideal

Lets be serious, regardless of how you feel about adapting to the new update, it was absolutely ridiculous that being in the desert naked was ideal because clothes were a waste of resources and a liability.

Also, why do you think noobs weren't getting any better? Cause you could survive standing around eating berries naked and never had cause to learn anything.

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I'll tell you what I tell all my children: Make basket, always carry food.

Listen to your mom!

DestinyCall

Member

Registered: 2018-12-08

Posts: 4,563

Re: Being naked in the desert never should have been ideal

This update will not help new players learn how to play.   It will teach them to uninstall OHOL.

Many people had issues with the way clothing and temperature were handled before the change.   Just read through the post when Jason asked for community suggestions.   People want clothes to matter.  They want temperature to work in a logical way.   They want to have a reason to build houses and make villages look like real villages instead of ugly junk piles.  That's not the problem.

The problem is that taking away warm biomes as a viable option doesn't fix many of the problems with temperature and makes several of those problems much, much worse, especially for new players.  Clothes still do not protect enough.  Grasslands are still too cold.  Buildings are still broken and impractical.   The extreme temperature transitions are illogical and unintuitive.

People are not complaining because they are ungrateful or spoiled.  We just want this game to be worth playing.

fragilityh14

Member

Registered: 2018-03-21

Posts: 556

Re: Being naked in the desert never should have been ideal

You know, I was introduced to the game via the Vice article last March or so, which made it clear you die a lot when you're starting and it's an accomplishment to live to old age.

I probably came at the game with much different expectations than other people.

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I'll tell you what I tell all my children: Make basket, always carry food.

Listen to your mom!

JoshuaN

Member

Registered: 2019-02-12

Posts: 70

Re: Being naked in the desert never should have been ideal

I would be a little bit happier if green/savanna/swamp biome temperature was an additional 10% warmer. That's the only tweak i would make.

On the topic of newbs uninstalling: Just teach your new kids how to care for berries, make compost, and the basics of farming like tilling soil / planting seeds / watering. Make sure they understand the compost cycle, and don't forget to cloth them!

If you don't have sheep and all that yet then just teach them about heat shock, clothing, fires, and foraging for food. You can also teach them about eve-stage farming. Goose ponds, Natural Fertile Soil, Skewer tilling, Gathering round rocks for wells if you have shovel, etc. Just do whatever the village needs.

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Sustenance~   ( ・・)つ―{}@{}@{}-

JoshuaN

Member

Registered: 2019-02-12

Posts: 70

Re: Being naked in the desert never should have been ideal

Deserts were a bit OP to be honest, I just took it for granted because it was the first thing i learned, balancing temperature to not starve.

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Sustenance~   ( ・・)つ―{}@{}@{}-

Peremptive

Member

Registered: 2019-02-14

Posts: 199

Re: Being naked in the desert never should have been ideal

This update will not help new players learn how to play.   It will teach them to uninstall OHOL.

Many people had issues with the way clothing and temperature were handled before the change.   Just read through the post when Jason asked for community suggestions.   People want clothes to matter.  They want temperature to work in a logical way.   They want to have a reason to build houses and make villages look like real villages instead of ugly junk piles.  That's not the problem.

The problem is that taking away warm biomes as a viable option doesn't fix many of the problems with temperature and makes several of those problems much, much worse, especially for new players.  Clothes still do not protect enough.  Grasslands are still too cold.  Buildings are still broken and impractical.   The extreme temperature transitions are illogical and unintuitive.

People are not complaining because they are ungrateful or spoiled.  We just want this game to be worth playing.

100% this. How can clothes be better if they don't help you at all compared to before? They only help with a huge threat which was added with the update, ie switching temps rapidly. You will still get biome temp over 30secs. This makes no sense, we are not lizards, if I wear a coat in the cold I will have significantly higher temp. Since most of the time you go out of the village you stay out for a few minutes, clothes do nothing for your temp compared to before. Buildings should be more important  but you need like drape doors that you go through or something, so many people die trying to get inside rooms.

Last edited by Peremptive (2019-02-17 02:43:37)

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Grim_Arbiter

Member

Registered: 2018-12-30

Posts: 943

Re: Being naked in the desert never should have been ideal

Lets be serious, regardless of how you feel about adapting to the new update, it was absolutely ridiculous that being in the desert naked was ideal because clothes were a waste of resources and a liability.

Also, why do you think noobs weren't getting any better? Cause you could survive standing around eating berries naked and never had cause to learn anything.

Tell that to the Australian aboriginals.

Really though think back to the first weeks you were playing and had to learn everything. Now imagine doing that now with the whole game throwing you a 180. The only other game changer I can think that could be on this level would be making the berries only give you one hunger pip.

Im just sympathetic for them.

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--Grim
I'm flying high. But the worst is never first, and there's a person that'll set you straight. Cancelling the force within my brain. For flying high. The simulator has been disengaged.

fragilityh14

Member

Registered: 2018-03-21

Posts: 556

Re: Being naked in the desert never should have been ideal

Lets be serious, regardless of how you feel about adapting to the new update, it was absolutely ridiculous that being in the desert naked was ideal because clothes were a waste of resources and a liability.

Also, why do you think noobs weren't getting any better? Cause you could survive standing around eating berries naked and never had cause to learn anything.

Tell that to the Australian aboriginals.

they never moved past being hunter-gatherers until outsiders showed up, so exactly my point.

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I'll tell you what I tell all my children: Make basket, always carry food.

Listen to your mom!

JoshuaN

Member

Registered: 2019-02-12

Posts: 70

Re: Being naked in the desert never should have been ideal

The only other game changer I can think that could be on this level would be making the berries only give you one hunger pip.

That might be the best way to make berries a compost / sheep only food. But then carrots would become the next victim of overeating. This would also make wild gooseberries not viable for eves. I wouldn't want to make eve gameplay even harder than it already is, that would just be absurd.

Berries are fine as they are, I have slightly different opinion about the people who waste them though. 35 hunger pips per 1 soil vs carrots which are 40 hunger pips per 1 soil. Bread is also 40 hunger pips per soil and you have excess of threshed wheat due to composting / making baskets and straw hats from wheat. None of that even compares to the efficiency of eating rabbit carrot pies and rabbit / mutton pies.

Last edited by JoshuaN (2019-02-17 03:50:06)

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Sustenance~   ( ・・)つ―{}@{}@{}-

dangergirl713

Member

Registered: 2018-11-14

Posts: 71

Re: Being naked in the desert never should have been ideal

Where did you think the outsiders started from? They were naked people in the jungle and desert as well. Just because the "outsiders'" civ advanced faster than the aboriginals, doesn't mean that they don't have a right to exist and live the way they want to.

This game is going down a dangerous road like all other games that make changes due to the pro players complaining. Developers make changes that the pro players want and it basically breaks a game mechanic and drives away new game adopters. Soon all you have are pro players playing with each other, which gets boring and the game dies.

Grim_Arbiter

Member

Registered: 2018-12-30

Posts: 943

Re: Being naked in the desert never should have been ideal

The only other game changer I can think that could be on this level would be making the berries only give you one hunger pip.

That might be the best way to make berries a compost / sheep only food. But then carrots would become the next victim of overeating. This would also make wild gooseberries not viable for eves. I wouldn't want to make eve gameplay even harder than it already is, that would just be absurd.

Berries are fine as they are, I have slightly different opinion about the people who waste them though. 35 hunger pips per 1 soil vs carrots which are 40 hunger pips per 1 soil. Bread is also 40 hunger pips per soil and you have excess of threshed wheat due to composting / making baskets and straw hats from wheat. None of that even compares to the efficiency of eating rabbit carrot pies and rabbit / mutton pies.

Yeah i pretty much agree. I honestly was hesitant about posting that because I didn't want jason to get any ideas haha

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--Grim
I'm flying high. But the worst is never first, and there's a person that'll set you straight. Cancelling the force within my brain. For flying high. The simulator has been disengaged.

fragilityh14

Member

Registered: 2018-03-21

Posts: 556

Re: Being naked in the desert never should have been ideal

Where did you think the outsiders started from? They were naked people in the jungle and desert as well. Just because the "outsiders'" civ advanced faster than the aboriginals, doesn't mean that they don't have a right to exist and live the way they want to.

I've always said long term hunting and gathering should be more viable and fun in this game, but the point is aborigines didn't set up large sedentary population habitations that advanced in technology.

You can play like an aborigine if you want, but the fact is, aborigines didn't have iron tools, so the tech limitations are pretty obvious.

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I'll tell you what I tell all my children: Make basket, always carry food.

Listen to your mom!

pein

Member

Registered: 2018-03-31

Posts: 4,335

Re: Being naked in the desert never should have been ideal

dont starve is also hard, but at least map kinda adapts to you, and keeps you busy all along, the new tech choices arent really useful
like managing sheep and compost is multi step easy thing, with huge reward
making radio? making car? i never even started making radios or airplane, is just kinda meh
making glass panels and bowls? that would be a good update
i was bored of the game before jungles came, i became bored again a few weeks ago
we need content, we need more random things in the world to make it interesting to explore, wander around, move a city, etc.

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https://onehouronelife.com/forums/viewtopic.php?id=7986 livestock pens 4.0
https://onehouronelife.com/forums/viewtopic.php?id=4411 maxi guide

Playing OHOL optimally is like cosplaying a cactus: stand still and don't waste the water.

Anandamide

Member

Registered: 2018-06-05

Posts: 142

Re: Being naked in the desert never should have been ideal

You know, I was introduced to the game via the Vice article last March or so, which made it clear you die a lot when you're starting and it's an accomplishment to live to old age.

I probably came at the game with much different expectations than other people.

THANK YOU

This is exactly how I feel. After you have experience, its no big deal living to old age, but in the beginning, I didnt have a problem with dying and felt like I had done something when I finally started to live to old age. I was constantly eveing and trying to get better and loved the challenge of it. The game had become considerably easier since those days and im excited for the new challenges.

Booklat1

Member

Registered: 2018-07-21

Posts: 1,062

Re: Being naked in the desert never should have been ideal

The problem is that taking away warm biomes as a viable option doesn't fix many of the problems with temperature and makes several of those problems much, much worse, especially for new players.  Clothes still do not protect enough.  Grasslands are still too cold.  Buildings are still broken and impractical.   The extreme temperature transitions are illogical and unintuitive.

People are not complaining because they are ungrateful or spoiled.  We just want this game to be worth playing.

This is probably the first time we disagree in a post here. I think nerfing deserts and jungles was the most important part of making clothes matter. Buildings and clothes were designed with heat in mind, they absolutely need to help us with temperature to be viable. Thing is, we never needed help with temp before. I think Jason didn't have to nerf jungle so badly, for example, but having both hot biomes allow for perfect or close to perfect tiles killed any need for clothes. Im sure Jason is aware of the mess the game is in, im sure clothing will become more useful soon enough (his original post that started this was about clothes). I still think that for buildings to matter we'll need more stuff like kilns/ovens to make use of, as busy workstations are really the only reason to build something.

But I agree, transitioning from biomes was made extremely complicated and the extra hardship is hurting new players. I just doubt this wont get fixed quickly and that a few weeks aren't enough for people to get used to the meta.

DestinyCall

Member

Registered: 2018-12-08

Posts: 4,563

Re: Being naked in the desert never should have been ideal

Actually, I think we agree on that point too.   Deserts should be harsh and unforgiving places.  It isn't an easy place to visit, let alone live there.   Jungles should be uncomfortably warm rather than perfect body temperature.  Trekking through a tropical jungle is not like floating in warm bathwater.   When I first started playing, it took me forever to realize how good the hot biomes were, because my natural assumption was that more neutral climates would be milder and more hospitable, while hot climates would be more hazardous and extreme.  I also wore clothes a lot when I first started, because I assumed that would be a smart move.  It was not.    Clothing should matter and hot places should be hot.  So in that regard, I think this update did fix a weird balance issue that was never suppose to be in the game.

But ... the current set-point for "neutral" biomes is too harsh and it has been too harsh for a very long time.  Wearing a lot of clothing has serious drawbacks, related to overheating, either in hot biomes or due to yellow fever.  Those issues are still present after this update.  Removing the unintentional "safe" zones provided by biome warmth just makes these temperature problems unavoidable and more devastating to inexperienced players.   My hope is that Jason takes our concerns seriously and doesn't leave things the way they are just because this update was suppose to "fix" the whole temperature problem.

Last edited by DestinyCall (2019-02-18 01:52:11)

stew

Member

Registered: 2019-02-13

Posts: 47

Re: Being naked in the desert never should have been ideal

I am fine with the difficulty. However I use Zoom, which makes it much easier. I think spawning as Eve, without zoom, is super hard now.

So I think the difficutly is fine for zoom users, but for not zoom users? Idk

Booklat1

Member

Registered: 2018-07-21

Posts: 1,062

Re: Being naked in the desert never should have been ideal

ut ... the current set-point for "neutral" biomes is too harsh and it has been too harsh for a very long time.  Wearing a lot of clothing has serious drawbacks, related to overheating, either in hot biomes or due to yellow fever.  Those issues are still present after this update.  Removing the unintentional "safe" zones provided by biome warmth just makes these temperature problems unavoidable and more devastating to inexperienced players.   My hope is that Jason takes our concerns seriously and doesn't leave things the way they are just because this update was suppose to "fix" the whole temperature problem.

But what the fuck are new players doing in deserts and jungles? If you're going away from the confort of the town you gotta be prepared or die terribly, that is also intended. We really gotta stop treating all new players like they're retarded. I'm sure that people find this game difficult, at times I have too, but it takes persevering to learn the game. If a noob keeps running away from town to die from shock and being frustraded it's only their own fault. We're past eve hell now, noobs shoulddn't even be in such harsh conditions anymore.

Peremptive

Member

Registered: 2019-02-14

Posts: 199

Re: Being naked in the desert never should have been ideal

We're past eve hell now, noobs shoulddn't even be in such harsh conditions anymore.

hue, all towns are starving and collapsing, what do you mean past eve hell? you spawn in a city and find mostly bones, gray bushes and not much else

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longest line

fragilityh14

Member

Registered: 2018-03-21

Posts: 556

Re: Being naked in the desert never should have been ideal

We're past eve hell now, noobs shoulddn't even be in such harsh conditions anymore.

hue, all towns are starving and collapsing, what do you mean past eve hell? you spawn in a city and find mostly bones, gray bushes and not much else

Why did a civ make it to gen 55 after update then?

Also, my Eve camp collapsed because the server only gave me the daughter i was born with, and she lived to 29 with no offspring. My other Eve camp gen 4 had one daughter who lived to 35 and had one child who died as an infant. So, my camps have been collapsing due to inexplicable fertility problems, which is crazy cause i've seen Eve moms at the same time who had 10 kids.  i do think something strange is going on with how kids are distributed, but i suppose the change probably just made standing by the fire full that much more advantageous for being blessed with children.

I've played 4 full lives in perfectly nice civs that were nowhere near collapse since this update.

Seriously, if you're in the wilds

1) Always carry food
2) make a basket as soon as possible
3) always carry sharp stone in your basket
4) if you aren't carrying food, your only priority is finding food

All the survivors play like this. Every good kid i've had who knows how to play does this right away in the wilds.

what is hard about not using zoom, is the wildlife and whatnot. That said, I've been _remarkably_ lucky with snakes and wolves recently, including times i quite obviously stepped on them with nothing else on the tile.

I would like to emphasize, i'm not some sort of videogame master. i'm usually in the lower half percentile of any online game i play, even ones i play a lot. [though, i was inexplicably so good at that Warcraft 3 mod "Line Tower Wars" i was frequently accused of cheating. i have no answers, everyone else was just terrible.]

i died a hell of a lot of times as a kid before i lived, which i what i expected going into the game.

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I'll tell you what I tell all my children: Make basket, always carry food.

Listen to your mom!

Booklat1

Member

Registered: 2018-07-21

Posts: 1,062

Re: Being naked in the desert never should have been ideal

We're past eve hell now, noobs shoulddn't even be in such harsh conditions anymore.

hue, all towns are starving and collapsing, what do you mean past eve hell? you spawn in a city and find mostly bones, gray bushes and not much else

People are starving, not towns. That's why, like fragility said, we still have gens going past 20, 30, even 50 apparently. Do you have any idea how rare were famines before this update? I bet they'll still be uncommon once these changes are all set and we have bigger towns with buildings and clothes. And of course people starve, they eat berries untill they run out and don't eat the few foods left, usually going out to find wild food and realize it's also run out. It's hard on noobs but they gotta be smart about what they eat once they see there's few berries left. I've been saying this for days but you can't expect the entire community to adapt over a weekend (nor expect that it wont adapt at all).

fragilityh14

Member

Registered: 2018-03-21

Posts: 556

Re: Being naked in the desert never should have been ideal

We're past eve hell now, noobs shoulddn't even be in such harsh conditions anymore.

hue, all towns are starving and collapsing, what do you mean past eve hell? you spawn in a city and find mostly bones, gray bushes and not much else

People are starving, not towns. That's why, like fragility said, we still have gens going past 20, 30, even 50 apparently. Do you have any idea how rare were famines before this update? I bet they'll still be uncommon once these changes are all set and we have bigger towns with buildings and clothes. And of course people starve, they eat berries untill they run out and don't eat the few foods left, usually going out to find wild food and realize it's also run out. It's hard on noobs but they gotta be smart about what they eat once they see there's few berries left. I've been saying this for days but you can't expect the entire community to adapt over a weekend (nor expect that it wont adapt at all).

THANK YOU!

Famine was rare before, though it happened. I had a game that i spent taking care of sheep, and then came to realize no one was composting at all and food was almost entirely out. I had assumed my contribution of constantly running mutton to the bakery was fine, but no one was really baking consistently either.

at 50 or so I looked around, and realized how bad the situation was, and spent the rest of my life telling people the civ was within 5-10 minutes of catastrophic food failure.

Sure enough, the family that was like 30 gens in was dead within 10 minutes of me, because no one did what they needed to do [yet like 3 or 4 people were working on airplanes.

Here's something to think about: many ancient city states lasted for about the amount of gens we are seeing, and then for some reason or another they collapsed. Usually, irresponsibility, decadence, and soil degradation. In Mesopotamia the irrigation actually made the soil more saline, and they had to move from planting wheat to barley [higher saline tolerance] for about 200 years until the soil wasn't viable for that either. Then the population collapsed, and survivors went to new places.

This used to be how the game worked, before we had compost and soil was rebalanced, that you would basically be somewhere until soil just ran out. [for newer players, at the time domestic berry bushes only needed soil once, and carrots didn't consume soil if you didn't let them seed, and wild carrots reseeded, so soil was only lost by wheat, letting carrots seed, etc]

Jason didn't want soil to be a hard limitation, which it shouldn't be. Instead we have a more Chinese type agricultural system that is sustainable but labor intensive. If people don't want to do the labor, or there is no organization, or people are wasting food, famine comes.

That is the game being balanced. It is supposed to happen.

I understand if you're used to just living on desert tiles this is all shocking, but people will get used to it, it makes the game way more balanced and brings the challenge back. it's quite rare to do like the Asians did and survive 40 centuries of intensive agriculture with a high population. It's much more common that a city state would collapse after 500-1500 years, due to resource depletion, irresponsibility, and complacency [or outside violence, of course, but that often comes after the city state is already weak]

It needs to be remembered by the time a family hits gen 20 it's meant to have been alive for 400 years. That is plenty long enough for an irresponsible people to overexploit an area and make survival unviable. Hell, in the American South [which has Ultisol, an initially fertile but old and highly erodible soil] they moved west like every 20 years because Cotton was sucking the life out of the soil.

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I'll tell you what I tell all my children: Make basket, always carry food.

Listen to your mom!

Peremptive

Member

Registered: 2019-02-14

Posts: 199

Re: Being naked in the desert never should have been ideal

for the millionth time, I have no problem finding 3-4 people with full clothing and backpacks dead at the jungle entrance to scavenge off of, and carrying food around for myself. I make it to 60 easy, and usually by 55-56 get back to the nursery, give off my clothes and chill around there for my last 3-4 minutes. Doesn't mean that we didn't kill off all the babies for 10-15 minutes to not die out. Doesn't mean it was fun to play that life or that the town progressed in any way.

"People are starving, not towns" is quite silly, towns are made of their people. Since the update the towns go through continuous starvation cycles, during which most young/old die. Have you noticed anything odd about the savannas lately?  They are completely bare. People eat all the carrots because they need food getting bunnies, they take all the wild wheat because there is no soil/iron to grow wheat, and all the rabbit holes get griefed so that you can get a new rabbit in 6 times slower. Previously, you got carrots and wheat once, and that was it. Now, when starvation hits the town, the most experienced and right age people find some wild resources to get compost and restart the cycle. Sooner or later you won't be able to do that.

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longest line

Booklat1

Member

Registered: 2018-07-21

Posts: 1,062

Re: Being naked in the desert never should have been ideal

for the millionth time, I have no problem finding 3-4 people with full clothing and backpacks dead at the jungle entrance to scavenge off of, and carrying food around for myself. I make it to 60 easy, and usually by 55-56 get back to the nursery, give off my clothes and chill around there for my last 3-4 minutes. Doesn't mean that we didn't kill off all the babies for 10-15 minutes to not die out. Doesn't mean it was fun to play that life or that the town progressed in any way.

"People are starving, not towns" is quite silly, towns are made of their people. Since the update the towns go through continuous starvation cycles, during which most young/old die. Have you noticed anything odd about the savannas lately?  They are completely bare. People eat all the carrots because they need food getting bunnies, they take all the wild wheat because there is no soil/iron to grow wheat, and all the rabbit holes get griefed so that you can get a new rabbit in 6 times slower. Previously, you got carrots and wheat once, and that was it. Now, when starvation hits the town, the most experienced and right age people find some wild resources to get compost and restart the cycle. Sooner or later you won't be able to do that.

So, your problem is that the game is acting like a realistic human occupation instead of berry farm simulator?

Stop just scavenging clothes, go hunt mufflons, go get rabbit families, go help your people. I spent my last life making clothing and raising kids. Had time to raise 4 daughters, one of which i killed for being the dumbest person on earth. Died at 57 while making a bunch of skins, getting lamb, finding people to make pen and mostly feeding off the wild. This was pre iron when I was born. All people had to do was not let the fire die and wear the clothes I brought. So no, I don't see what you are saying because I can do much more than eating in my lives.

And it obviously makes a difference either a town or person die. It's mosly game over when a town dies, people spawn by the hundreads. As soon as your town gets to sheep era mortality should diminish due to clothes and famines becoming less often but population growth often causes more deaths so... Yeah, people die, specially noobs, specially naked noobs. If you care, go mass produce sheep skin and straw hats. They'll help your civiization forever.

DestinyCall

Member

Registered: 2018-12-08

Posts: 4,563

Re: Being naked in the desert never should have been ideal

I've also noticed more prairies completely stripped of wild squash, yet there is no domestic squash growing in the towns.   Before this update, you might need to replace squash occassionally due to inexperience stew-makers forgetting to save the seeds.  But now villages are burning through the wild plants at a staggering rate.   Too many people making stew without the time to learn the skill properly.

This game already has a lot of ways to fail.   I don't think this level of difficulty is necessary to provide an adequate challenge.   Even when as an experienced player, you are at the mercy of all the less experienced (or actively griefing) members of your town, past and future.   I would rather have a little buffer so a village has a decent chance to survive a bad generation if you put in the work during your lifetime.