[Corrected] - Temperature Update - Potentially not so bad.

JoshuaN · 2019-02-16 20:36:19

Booklat1 wrote:

It IS mostly working as intended ffs. Heat was supposed to be nerfed in natural biomes, that WAS the intention. We NEED clothing and we NEED heating. That's the way we are intended to play from now on. Sure it may be unbalanced currently, but few hours of evidence isn't enough to say that.

Did you stand by fires to stay warm? How did clothing work for you? I haven't lived long enough to make clothing, i blame the DC's on that end though. The DC's are probably why i gave up to be honest. I did find an old town but i dc'd right after clothing myself.

Ilka · 2019-02-16 21:18:09

Dodge wrote:

Early game is supposed to be very difficult, but as villages advance it gets easier, and now more than before advanced villages will be even easier, with the clothes and heat changes you will eat a lot less in advanced villages with full clothes, buildings, floors etc

It will not be easier. Even before, entire cities sometimes died out because no one cared for berries, did not make compost, etc. Now you need to worry about clothes and generally you need a much larger amount of food. This means - if there is no baker - the city dies. If nobody cares about the sheep - the city dies ... The simulator of dying of hunger. And it very slows down the building of anything - now you need 10 generations to achieve what was once possible to get in the second-third generation.

Booklat1 · 2019-02-16 21:24:36

Cities rarely die because no one cares for berries, what are you even talking about? Pros can always find pies and try to make sure there are babies around. It's griefing and lack of babygirls that kills old settlements, it has become less common since big server went live but these are still the most common causes. We know that because we don't find dead settlements completely clear of food.

Though yes, girls will die more often. And hopefully as a consequence people will finally learn there is a heat mechanic in the game.

Ilka · 2019-02-16 21:58:58

Booklat1 wrote:

Cities rarely die because no one cares for berries, what are you even talking about? Pros can always find pies and try to make sure there are babies around. It's griefing and lack of babygirls that kills old settlements, it has become less common since big server went live but these are still the most common causes. We know that because we don't find dead settlements completely clear of food.
Though yes, girls will die more often. And hopefully as a consequence people will finally learn there is a heat mechanic in the game.

I write about cities and not about single experienced players. And yes, when I am there the town not dying, because I do what is most needed. Cities live thanks to experienced players who want to work for the benefit of others.
But how many have you seen new players who survive for a long time without berries? I recently had a Chinese mom. I brought her a pie and said, "Eat mom." She answers: "No, thank you" (I think she did not understand). I fed her and put the pie next to her. Do you think she ate them? No, she still ate the berries ...

Averest · 2019-02-16 22:13:08

It wouldn't be so bad if you didn't have to wait so long for rabbits to have babies as an Eve. It feels like an eternity while I wait for the buggers to slowly creep out of their holes for the first time. I love trapping and hunting and making clothes but the demand now far outstrips the ability of a town to produce enough in the early stages to make a growing family comfortable. If you want to have people wearing clothes, you gotta have the resources.

Spoonwood · 2019-02-16 22:29:10

Averest wrote:

It wouldn't be so bad if you didn't have to wait so long for rabbits to have babies as an Eve. It feels like an eternity while I wait for the buggers to slowly creep out of their holes for the first time. I love trapping and hunting and making clothes but the demand now far outstrips the ability of a town to produce enough in the early stages to make a growing family comfortable. If you want to have people wearing clothes, you gotta have the resources.

The quickest way to get a sizeable group of people clothing is to have a hunter and maybe a clothing collector also, who hunts mouflon and probably also wolves. Killing wolves in the badlands before could be useful, now it's very useful. Mouflon hide does not require any milkweed beyond the startup cost of a bow and arrow (and you want one later anyways), and I would expect still does not decay. So long as some mouflon close enough is left or a baby mouflon gets left, that's alright. If a settlement can get up a knife, all of those wild mouflons can get skinned for their meat. The drawback though comes as that if you setup near the badlands, then your settlement lies closer to bear dens, and it's only two parts of the body that can get covered (and wolf hats require milkweed to make before a ball of thread and needle... and you need at least one rabbit bone).

DestinyCall · 2019-02-16 22:38:06

The mouflon hide is nice, but I recommend seal hide as your first option. No knife or bow required and it can be upgraded to sealskin coat when you get needles and thread.

Leave the mouflon for future generation so the village will always have sheep.

Peremptive · 2019-02-16 22:40:58

Rage wrote:

I lost my eve camp on server three after hours of play i was surrounded by food and could not eat fast enough. I am not going to go off like i really want. I am going to give the creator time to fix this. But if this is permanent I want a refund.

My friend I had the exact same experience. my private camp crossed 2-3 biomes and the temp changes killed me *while baking and literally holding food*. I had had full pips half a minute ago. I felt the exact same sentiment - this is money wasted.

People keep saying clothes are important now and that is good. That is a ridiculous statement. Clothes are only important so you don't die from extreme temp shock when you change biomes, since jungles' and deserts' normal temp is now the same as being bit by mosquitoes and standing on lava. But clothes don't help you keep temp for more than a few seconds. If you stay in the biome for more than a half minute (which you normally have to) you are screwed. So all hot biomes are now worse than snow, and all cold biomes are super cold. You are supposed to have some place with perfect temp that you return to every minute? That is completely unreasonable. Adults cannot possibly do that. You can't have everything indoors with fires blazing. Some places make a nursery that keeps the fire but it can take ten seconds to get in because four people are clicking on the two doors at the same time. The result is that clothes prevent extremely fast death for maybe thirty seconds. Otherwise you are screwed. People are not lizards though. We don't get our temp from the outside. It makes no sense.

This makes surviving challenging to say the least. The cities are mostly graveyards for 10-20 tiles out. No wild food is left in any direction in any reasonable distance that someone with 4-5 pips can get to. You might find bushes with a recently regenerated berry but that is it. You can achieve maybe 1/4th of what you used to because of the constant need for food. Griefers are having the time of their lives. You have no opportunity to look around because you are always starving or rushing to do something before you are starving. People still get stabbed now and then, but that was actually not that common since all noobs die. Like, actually. All of them. No noobs make it to ten that I know of. Most of the noobs in the nursery when I was growing up I saw die trying to get back in by the time I was six or seven.
Still, so many nice ways to grief now that nobody has time to look around. The smithing hammer was missing until we found it behind a tree. By the time we did that the kindling was hidden. Items just kept missing. All sheep always shorn, for forever and ever. Rabbits are almost all griefed. In a town with savanna on two sides with 50+ rabbits, there were none when I was born and none when I died.

Anyone who thinks this is playable, really playable, not just survive on tryhard mode and make sure not to cross biomes when older, you are delusional.

Last edited by Peremptive (2019-02-16 23:13:27)

JoshuaN · 2019-02-16 22:47:58

Okay so i had my first life in an actual working village that had the basics: Fire, tools, sheep. We did alright with clothes. Clothes made a world of difference. I'm sorry for being a bit dramatic at first. I wasn't have a good time with DCs and the shock feature which i DID NOT understand in the slightest. It was this crazy thing that made no sense to me.

Plot twist though. There was drama between a mother and daughter, the daughter murdered the mother and nearly ended us! Luckily we had one daughter left in the village. So the three of us remaining players who did not die out worked hard to rebuild what was neglected during the chaos. I died at the ripe old age of 60 as generation 13 - James Gonnella II was my name.

I kinda like it a lot more now because people prioritize clothes now and so you have an industry for it where as before if you wanted clothes you had to do everything on your own. Now people are making thread and hunting animals for their hides quite more frequently. The importance of fire for the naked is now an absolute must. It makes a lot more sense to me now. I enjoyed my life. Sorry for drama.

Some things to note: Savanna and green biome are essential. Badlands and ice biome also help. (wolf hats and seal fur coats best in slot.) Plus the iron from badlands is always a necessity but the risk of wolves and bears are dangerous. So build close enough to them to walk there just for iron, but not right at the edge of your village. Avoid building right next to jungles, mosquitoes are an unnecessary risk.

Some things to avoid are jungles and deserts entirely when building a settlement. The heat shock in addition to mosquitoes and snakes make these biomes a very dangerous place. I still haven't tested heat shock with clothes but i assume with clothes its much less dangerous from what i hear. Bring clothes before you go to hunt down a horse / palm oil for rubber / or looking for extra flat stones or to snag a little yum bonus from a close by cactus fruit/banana.

Possible exploit: Grab bananas and cactus fruit on the very edge of biome, or spawned outside the edge of their own biome.

Last edited by JoshuaN (2019-02-16 22:51:52)

Grim_Arbiter · 2019-02-16 23:26:25

Ok I played a full life so i could experience it and while it was probably the most stressful life I've ever had in this game, it had its reward.. but I still dont like it. Ive gotta say though that now more so than ever do villages need an experienced player or two running around. While I was in a village that was going on 30 gens, I've never seen a live village that needed as much work to keep going as that one. It reminded me of starting in a decayed village where there are like five different things that need to be done to restore, while you also have to deal with things that need to be kept up with now.

NoTruePunk · 2019-02-16 23:33:42

Booklat1 wrote:

For it's security to be expensive, not something you can simply acquire by dumping kids in biome borders.

It would help if that actually worked. Heat still kills you even if you do put in the work

sinfulcliche · 2019-02-16 23:48:40

Grim_Arbiter wrote:

Ok I played a full life so i could experience it and while it was probably the most stressful life I've ever had in this game, it had its reward.. but I still dont like it. Ive gotta say though that now more so than ever do villages need an experienced player or two running around. While I was in a village that was going on 30 gens, I've never seen a live village that needed as much work to keep going as that one. It reminded me of starting in a decayed village where there are like five different things that need to be done to restore, while you also have to deal with things that need to be kept up with now.

This is exactly how I feel! There's no time to stop and chat, because you're starving in seconds. You're constantly searching for food and doing anything is 10x harder. I'm playing a game, I don't *want* to be stressed. (At least not the entire time.)

JoshuaN · 2019-02-17 00:01:26

Make fire near a renewable food source such as wild berries. (Its dangerous to go for bananas and cactus fruit if your temperature is not normal)
Idk if food farm or clothing should come first... One thing for sure is important and that is rope. You need a snare to get a rabbit and milkweed thread for basic clothing.

Grim_Arbiter · 2019-02-17 00:23:52

sinfulcliche wrote:

Grim_Arbiter wrote:
Ok I played a full life so i could experience it and while it was probably the most stressful life I've ever had in this game, it had its reward.. but I still dont like it. Ive gotta say though that now more so than ever do villages need an experienced player or two running around. While I was in a village that was going on 30 gens, I've never seen a live village that needed as much work to keep going as that one. It reminded me of starting in a decayed village where there are like five different things that need to be done to restore, while you also have to deal with things that need to be kept up with now.
This is exactly how I feel! There's no time to stop and chat, because you're starving in seconds. You're constantly searching for food and doing anything is 10x harder. I'm playing a game, I don't *want* to be stressed. (At least not the entire time.)

Well while I was still able to do a couple personal things I like to do, like make myself fruitboots and pass them on to someone else who helped out, there was more dread than usual and I felt like more noow than ever that the 60 mins wasn't enough. I needed a whole other life to do half the basic things i started out on, that I only hope got completed. In between farming, sheep management, child clothing, and raising a daughter as a dad I just barely accomplished my first goal of lighting the newcomen pump.

It boils down to more fear for me now. I'm more fearful and therefore stressed.

If anyone really digs this stress stuff there are games out there like frostpunk that bring this level, but personally I like it toned down one notch to where the game was at before this all.

Greep's server right now has a better system of how hunger vs temp work with just a baseline hunger thing going and if it was set at that I think it would be a better solution.

Booklat1 · 2019-02-17 00:42:37

JoshuaN wrote:

Booklat1 wrote:
It IS mostly working as intended ffs. Heat was supposed to be nerfed in natural biomes, that WAS the intention. We NEED clothing and we NEED heating. That's the way we are intended to play from now on. Sure it may be unbalanced currently, but few hours of evidence isn't enough to say that.
Did you stand by fires to stay warm? How did clothing work for you? I haven't lived long enough to make clothing, i blame the DC's on that end though. The DC's are probably why i gave up to be honest. I did find an old town but i dc'd right after clothing myself.

I hunted mouflons pretty fast and their skins gave me some extra freedom and also allowed me to trust some daughters would survive. We just never let the fire die and kept all babies there. Another life I made few skins and saved a girl from griefing (this line is also strong).

clothing specially wild animal skins early on and rabbit loincloths/straw hats/sheep skins later is now very important.

Spoonwood · 2019-02-17 01:09:26

DestinyCall wrote:

The mouflon hide is nice, but I recommend seal hide as your first option. No knife or bow required and it can be upgraded to sealskin coat when you get needles and thread.
Leave the mouflon for future generation so the village will always have sheep.

I think it's more difficult to find the same number of seals as it is to find the same number of mouflons. At least, I think mouflons are more abundant. For an Eve or a small group, sure sealskins might be better first.

fragilityh14 · 2019-02-17 01:41:53

Peremptive wrote:

Anyone who thinks this is playable, really playable, not just survive on tryhard mode and make sure not to cross biomes when older, you are delusional.

I stayed alive to 60 for 3 lives and it wasn't even mildly challenging any of those times, and I'm no sort of videogame expert. Just keep your food bar full.

Tarr · 2019-02-17 01:44:10

Spoonwood wrote:

DestinyCall wrote:
The mouflon hide is nice, but I recommend seal hide as your first option. No knife or bow required and it can be upgraded to sealskin coat when you get needles and thread.
Leave the mouflon for future generation so the village will always have sheep.
I think it's more difficult to find the same number of seals as it is to find the same number of mouflons. At least, I think mouflons are more abundant. For an Eve or a small group, sure sealskins might be better first.

Mouflon hides are both more abundant than seals and double the insulation of base seal skins. You absolutely should rush them as a bow and arrow is required tech for the file + sheep.

JoshuaN · 2019-02-17 02:00:11

So on the topic of clothing: For long term clothing you would typically want mouflon hide, straw hat, and reed skirt correct? And correct my math... it would provide 44.10592% overall insulation including the 4% insulation from air? I think that's pretty good alternative to seal coats/rabbit/wolf outfits which decay but provide best in slot insulation.

( 1 - 0.12 ) * ( 1 - 0.1625 ) * ( 1 - 0.21 ) * ( 1 - 0.04 )
reed skirt R * straw hat R * mouflon hide R * air R

Last edited by JoshuaN (2019-02-17 02:08:54)

rellortism · 2019-02-17 02:10:05

I usually eve base one random servers and also noticed that clothes make a huge difference since this patch but not for long if a player stays on one spot.
I would agree that Eve-ing is harder than ever.
Getting that seal skin or early reed skirt is certainly a priority.

This feels like a setup for an update to make clothes using the loom.

PS
Since we can make diesel engines,
I hope crafting a heater or AC isn't too far off in the future!
Making use of a piece of charcoal / briquettes to fuel heaters inside closed buildings
or using snow for makeshift AC's!

Anyway.
I like this update.

hmrka · 2019-02-17 02:13:53

It's gonna take some time for people to get used to it, but yeah I don't think its that bad. It's a lot harder to be an eve, but once the city starts developing I have seen nice buildings being made, and almost everyone had full sets of clothing! I'm sure in a few days there will be huge cities again.

Tarr · 2019-02-17 02:18:17

JoshuaN wrote:

So on the topic of clothing: For long term clothing you would typically want mouflon hide, straw hat, and reed skirt correct? And correct my math... it would provide 44.10592% overall insulation including the 4% insulation from air? I think that's pretty good alternative to seal coats/rabbit/wolf outfits which decay but provide best in slot insulation.
( 1 - 0.12 ) * ( 1 - 0.1625 ) * ( 1 - 0.21 ) * ( 1 - 0.04 )
reed skirt R * straw hat R * mouflon hide R * air R

Straw hat, mouflon hide, rabbit loincloth, and rabbit shoes. Reed skirt requires 11 hours to pay off its thread investment while a rabbit loincloth only costs one thread ever 5 and a half hours. Rabbit loincloths are 5% better while being very easy to mass produce in the long run. Same goes with rabbit shoes, they have half the cost of snakeskin shoes (which are worse) and are four times cheaper to produce than one wool booty (also worse) since one wool booty costs two fleece vs half a rabbit fur.

Without going too hard on rabbit hunting I was able to produce about 60ish rabbit furs per hour (using a normal cart + backpack) which is enough fur to cloth at least 5 people with full rabbit fur sets (each set costs a total of 8 furs) which depending on your population isn't too bad. Once you get sheep you can make the more costly rabbit fur items (rabbit fur coat and hat) as it'll get your drain rate in a pretty decent spot. If you can teach someone to properly breed wolves that would also make a great substitute (saving 2 furs per 5 and a half hour) while being best in slot. If you get a wolf breeder you bring the renewable clothing set to 10 fully geared people (minus a bp) with these sorts of numbers.

Basically nude people should be inside a building doing baking or forging while people with clothes are the hunters/farmers/etc.

JoshuaN · 2019-02-17 02:57:29

You can breed wolves? Whaaaaat, so how would you do that? Its obviously dangerous so you would need a pen of some sort yes? Obviously a berry bush entrance sealed off on the corner. I'm just going off the wiki but... You feed a wild wolf raw mutton to get a pregnant semi tame wolf. This produces a wolf baby and two dogs (you can or should let the dog puppies die?) You feed a wolf baby carnitas, or it just grows on its own? Then you kill and skin the old semi-tame wolf for its skin?

Raw mutton + wolf = Semi tame wolf & wolf baby
Seperate wolf baby from mom = old semi tame wolf + wolf baby
Bowl of Carnitas + wolf baby = old semi tame wolf + Semi tame wolf
Let the old wolf die or kill it with a bow and then skin it = Wolf meat(grave) + Wolf Pelt + New semi tame wolf for future breeding.

That just about sums up the process right?

Last edited by JoshuaN (2019-02-17 02:58:05)

JoshuaN · 2019-02-17 03:02:58

The only thing i disagree with about making rabbit fur coats is that the seal coats use the same amount of thread and are better.

Do new seals spawn from ice holes in ice biome? Or are they non renewable animals? I'm entirely unsure of what animals do respawn... I would hope that to some degree all animals do respawn. Rabbits for sure are an infinite resource, but what about wolfs, seals, and mouflon? Do they just pop out in the correct biome, or are they non-renewable resources?

Also i just looked into santa hats... Those look fun 18.75% insulation but costs 5 fleece 1 thread. Mutton pies, fleece and ball of thread are biproducts of compost which is a corner stone of a healthy farm village, you could mass produce santa hats until your village had enough to for everyone so long as the compost cycle was relatively fast. If nobody is tending to carrots and wheat (as per usual a noob mistake) then the process would slow down until carrots and wheat started going again.

Rabbit hats do seem like a more reasonable alternative though because they only use 1 thread of a ball of thread and two rabbit pelts and provide a better insulation bonus. Breeding wolves for hats seems like nice idea too, though It may require a sheep, pig, and corn farm though for the necessary carnitas and mutton.

Last edited by JoshuaN (2019-02-17 03:28:27)

Tarr · 2019-02-17 03:49:39

JoshuaN wrote:

You can breed wolves? Whaaaaat, so how would you do that? Its obviously dangerous so you would need a pen of some sort yes? Obviously a berry bush entrance sealed off on the corner. I'm just going off the wiki but... You feed a wild wolf raw mutton to get a pregnant semi tame wolf. This produces a wolf baby and two dogs (you can or should let the dog puppies die?) You feed a wolf baby carnitas, or it just grows on its own? Then you kill and skin the old semi-tame wolf for its skin?
Raw mutton + wolf = Semi tame wolf & wolf baby
Seperate wolf baby from mom = old semi tame wolf + wolf baby
Bowl of Carnitas + wolf baby = old semi tame wolf + Semi tame wolf
Let the old wolf die or kill it with a bow and then skin it = Wolf meat(grave) + Wolf Pelt + New semi tame wolf for future breeding. Wolves aren't overall too costly (1/4th of a sheep + 1/4th of a pig). I mean would you trade one dried ear of a corn for the best hat in game? The cost is incredibly cheap to mass produce wolves for hats.
That just about sums up the process right?

I mean it's not exactly dangerous. You can make a wolf pen however since old semi-tame wolves can't be shot, has to die of old age, and requires an hour to despawn after being skinned a wolf pen either has to be very large or requires free range raising.

JoshuaN wrote:

The only thing i disagree with about making rabbit fur coats is that the seal coats use the same amount of thread and are better.
Do new seals spawn from ice holes in ice biome? Or are they non renewable animals? I'm entirely unsure of what animals do respawn... I would hope that to some degree all animals do respawn. Rabbits for sure are an infinite resource, but what about wolfs, seals, and mouflon? Do they just pop out in the correct biome, or are they non-renewable resources?
Also i just looked into santa hats... Those look fun 18.75% insulation but costs 5 fleece 1 thread. Mutton pies, fleece and ball of thread are biproducts of compost which is a corner stone of a healthy farm village, you could mass produce santa hats until your village had enough to for everyone so long as the compost cycle was relatively fast. If nobody is tending to carrots and wheat (as per usual a noob mistake) then the process would slow down until carrots and wheat started going again.
Rabbit hats do seem like a more reasonable alternative though because they only use 1 thread of a ball of thread and two rabbit pelts and provide a better insulation bonus. Breeding wolves for hats seems like nice idea too, though It may require a sheep, pig, and corn farm though for the necessary carnitas and mutton.

You aren't going to get new seals from ice holes like you would bears from bear caves. Once you kill off your seal population you're stuck going further and further away from home. While yes four rabbit furs for a 5.25% upgrade over three rabbit furs is costly (one fur provides 17% in the butt slot or 17% in the shoe slot if made into two shoes) if you have enough wild rabbits it's worth giving someone a BiS renewable chest. I myself without being super focused could produce 60 rabbits in an hour (this includes some afking) which meant 5 people got fully upgraded rabbit fur clothing. If you used a horse cart or plane this number could easily be surpassed.

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#51 2019-02-16 20:36:19

Re: [Corrected] - Temperature Update - Potentially not so bad.

#52 2019-02-16 21:18:09

Re: [Corrected] - Temperature Update - Potentially not so bad.

#53 2019-02-16 21:24:36

Re: [Corrected] - Temperature Update - Potentially not so bad.

#54 2019-02-16 21:58:58

Re: [Corrected] - Temperature Update - Potentially not so bad.

#55 2019-02-16 22:13:08

Re: [Corrected] - Temperature Update - Potentially not so bad.

#56 2019-02-16 22:29:10

Re: [Corrected] - Temperature Update - Potentially not so bad.

#57 2019-02-16 22:38:06

Re: [Corrected] - Temperature Update - Potentially not so bad.

#58 2019-02-16 22:40:58

Re: [Corrected] - Temperature Update - Potentially not so bad.

#59 2019-02-16 22:47:58

Re: [Corrected] - Temperature Update - Potentially not so bad.

#60 2019-02-16 23:26:25

Re: [Corrected] - Temperature Update - Potentially not so bad.

#61 2019-02-16 23:33:42

Re: [Corrected] - Temperature Update - Potentially not so bad.

#62 2019-02-16 23:48:40

Re: [Corrected] - Temperature Update - Potentially not so bad.

#63 2019-02-17 00:01:26

Re: [Corrected] - Temperature Update - Potentially not so bad.

#64 2019-02-17 00:23:52

Re: [Corrected] - Temperature Update - Potentially not so bad.

#65 2019-02-17 00:42:37

Re: [Corrected] - Temperature Update - Potentially not so bad.

#66 2019-02-17 01:09:26

Re: [Corrected] - Temperature Update - Potentially not so bad.

#67 2019-02-17 01:41:53

Re: [Corrected] - Temperature Update - Potentially not so bad.

#68 2019-02-17 01:44:10

Re: [Corrected] - Temperature Update - Potentially not so bad.

#69 2019-02-17 02:00:11

Re: [Corrected] - Temperature Update - Potentially not so bad.

#70 2019-02-17 02:10:05

Re: [Corrected] - Temperature Update - Potentially not so bad.

#71 2019-02-17 02:13:53

Re: [Corrected] - Temperature Update - Potentially not so bad.

#72 2019-02-17 02:18:17

Re: [Corrected] - Temperature Update - Potentially not so bad.

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Re: [Corrected] - Temperature Update - Potentially not so bad.

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Re: [Corrected] - Temperature Update - Potentially not so bad.

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Re: [Corrected] - Temperature Update - Potentially not so bad.

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