How to caravan?

NoTruePunk · 2019-01-26 08:17:59

It seems like with the depletion of iron in an area caravans are a fairly central idea behind OHOL. At some point you have to get up and move, no matter what. The dev has stated this. But I haven't seen or heard of any really. It might be feasible for a single woman or twins on voicechat to go out and settle somewhere new, but moving a population isn't possible, and certainly not for multiple generations. We have no way to carry young in vehicles. Even on foot a pie, a sterile pad and a needle/thread take up your whole backpack. So if unsustainablility is a core mechanic of the game and caravans aren't possible, that begs the question:

What do we do when we run out of iron, aside from die?

There's missing mechanics here. We need some sort of horse-drawn carriage that people can ride in. Two drivers, one for cargo and one for people should be enough to sustain a small caravan for multiple generations, given an imperative like "go east until generation 50, then settle a village" written on a paper. People running around on foot or each with their own cart is too chaotic, but two experienced drivers moving a small population can work out a system using occasional home markers to meet at in case of separation. They'll need to stop on occasion for foraging anyway.

Morti · 2019-01-26 10:59:27

If you are born as female, you have ten minutes from age 4 to 14 to run childless for sure, more if you keep food meter lower, but if you can't get far enough away to find a nice grassland with sufficient milkweed, soil and a warm biome by ponds, I'll stay quiet in your arms or at your side for as long as it takes.

You just need to go into Eve mode and run like the future depends on you.

If you are male, you can basically do the same thing, but the time you save from 14-40 needs to be dumped into 40-60 when you go back to the other town and let people know you found a nice, fresh, spot to make a new home.

You could also just take an ax, pick a cardinal direction and cut down anything that gets in your way to make a clear path. Then you check around every grassland, swamp, jungle and desert you cut into, and look for a suitable home site. Eventually you'll find one and the people born there will be that much closer in that direction to fresh surface iron and nodes.

You really have so many options either gender, just don't waste too much time talking about it and do it.

This is exactly how the greatest chains of cities have come into existence, ones so big they even spawned in multiple eves in multiple locations, and lasted nearly a week. That's a lot of hour lives.

Booklat1 · 2019-01-26 14:22:47

100% agree with notruepunk. We ARE missing mechanics. Sure, if the zoom in this game wasn't so bad maybe we could travel together slightly easier, but as it is we need improved means of transportation or, at the very least adding more to the natural world so we can make more uses of landmarks.

I see a few problems with iron as our main drive of economy other than that too. The fact all of our resources can be directy translated into iron uses causes a very easy translation to cost/efficiency whenever a new tech costs iron (sometimes it'll be obvious no upgrade is possible until more iron is found). Another issue is that iron being the only non-renewable item which is constant demand makes it the most valuable resource by far and all others ultimately unneeded. This kills any possibility of trade or city specializations.

NoTruePunk · 2019-01-26 18:55:10

Morti wrote:

If you are born as female, you have ten minutes from age 4 to 14 to run childless for sure, more if you keep food meter lower, but if you can't get far enough away to find a nice grassland with sufficient milkweed, soil and a warm biome by ponds, I'll stay quiet in your arms or at your side for as long as it takes.
You just need to go into Eve mode and run like the future depends on you.
If you are male, you can basically do the same thing, but the time you save from 14-40 needs to be dumped into 40-60 when you go back to the other town and let people know you found a nice, fresh, spot to make a new home.
You could also just take an ax, pick a cardinal direction and cut down anything that gets in your way to make a clear path. Then you check around every grassland, swamp, jungle and desert you cut into, and look for a suitable home site. Eventually you'll find one and the people born there will be that much closer in that direction to fresh surface iron and nodes.
You really have so many options either gender, just don't waste too much time talking about it and do it.
This is exactly how the greatest chains of cities have come into existence, ones so big they even spawned in multiple eves in multiple locations, and lasted nearly a week. That's a lot of hour lives.

The problem is, each settlement formed in this way can only travel a distance limited by 1 lifetime, which means the territory of the two settlements will overlap. Since your new settlement is green and the old one is advanced eventually your parent civ will hit cars and overtake your territory altogether, defeating the purpose. Without a way to sustain a nomadic society each branching settlement of an original eve camp will be at a fundamental disadvantage. You also can't retain multiple lineages this way, unless you can coordinate with someone from the other lineage over voice chat somehow. The lineage that is left behind will die out, or form their own settlements and your society will go separate ways. This is another way in which child settlements are at a disadvantage, since villages with multiple lineages don't suffer from as much lineage ban.

pein · 2019-01-26 19:35:27

yeah, nomads would need ability to eat more animals
carry babies and feed them
lower tech stuff which doesn't require settling down, like mobile stations for something
i had a life when i had a horse cart from somewhere and didn't really wanted to go for finding the city, we started new, and was nice to have it to scavenge
so saddle should be made from other hide too, and horse tied to something like a monolith to put a saddle on
a whole tech branch which would be expensive and decaying faster but doesn't require tools so would be good when you don't care about the map around you
like a makeshift cart made from branches and ropes, no wheels, and would slow you down a fair bit

smoke signals: settign up a fire, and putting leafs on it, could set a big smoke which would leave a marker for others in like 200 tiles away
also this could give a purpose for some trees like swamp tree, at the start of bigserver, it was crazy baby booms before you could even make tools, and if the eve was bad, she just raised babies in jungle and 30 people were there naked in jungle without a spot

i made 2 berry farms in one run where we had a few bowls and a small farm, cause people eating everything in fast pace and was inevitable to split

its fun sometimes running with smart people but eventually you lose them

i would like more natural spots, maybe special biomes with cave formations, or waterfalls
even for decor or ambience, is nice to have different things, which block movement, could be used as creative room systems, pens, etc.
currently im just not a fan of running for bells and generally exploring with no purpose as everything looks the same

CrazyEddie · 2019-01-26 19:41:52

pein wrote:

smoke signals: settign up a fire, and putting leafs on it, could set a big smoke which would leave a marker for others in like 200 tiles away

This is a great idea.

I agree, the two big obstacles to having effective nomadic lineages is a) too little useful technology that isn't gated by steel tools and b) some way to stay together while traveling.

Lily · 2019-01-26 20:52:19

I just had a nice idea. It would be nice if you could have something like a home marker, but could send the coordinates by radio. So that if you ran out into the wilderness, really far away and made a radio you could call back to the city you came from and people there could get the new home marker and then come join you. That way one person or a couple could go off and set things up, then everyone could follow you later.

BladeWoods · 2019-01-26 21:49:52

Evenutally moving the town makes sense, but I've never seen a town live long enough to run out of iron and need to move.

pein · 2019-01-26 23:10:30

moving town wont make much sense

only if its bad position
like the other day i had a nce mom who was so desperate to have a kid, i already quit on her searching for the other town, but i was a boy that time
i stayed cause she was nice
the camp was a swamp with a tiny green biome, 2 soil piles, one well made with 5 bushes, even too close to the well (i just hate that, keep one space from that damn well, you wont die moving 2 tiles for water and later on you can put down bucket)
someone digged a few bones to make grave pen, eventually had to dig out as i seen a sand pile in place of berry bush and 2 rabbits acting as walls
i made tools and pen and even taught one of my son to do stuff, get me stuff, he got most things, except rope, with that small amount of soil, my daughter treid to farm, she was good farmer but not really a pro player who can move out and make it viable. as a kid i found a better spot, lookingfor milkweed, wasn't even far, like 100-150 tile west.
even tarr joined in that civ bit later and he just quit on them cause even with compost and tools wasn't looking too nice, one error, no good players and that place gets ruined

most of cases doesn't worth the hassle to move out, not for an iron vein, maybe for 5 or more
green biome got nerfed indirectly by tree planting
and as people are better at pen making and compost, you can grind it out with like 2 ponds and 1 soil pile even
maybe for huge stone deposits near clean jungle, that might worth it, or huge rabbit field near a better spot
but people wont want to move when things are set up and honestly most cases you can just start an eve run on your own if the town is bad
outposts are viable, and with big population, a small group can go out and make new camp, but to move the whole thing, transport isn't viable, communication isn't good enough

i still think people should move into jungle and make walls for mosquitoes but even in 20 gen nobody made it, takes a fair 30 min of work on a bigger jungle even with 5-8 mosquitoes, more than that is a struggle
we need more valuable spots, and more expensive stuff, clay mine, stone mine, big rock making , upgraded iron. then it would make sense to leave a camp behind, maybe use it to slingshot to higher tech then move out

CrazyEddie · 2019-01-26 23:18:35

Idea for a group travel aid: torches.

Short shaft + Tarry spot = Torch. Light the torch like a firebrand.

Torch stays lit as long as someone holds it, no expiration. Lit torch can light fires like a firebrand. Dropping the torch makes it smolder for one minute, then go out. While smoldering it can't light fires, but can light juniper tinder like an ember leaf. When out it can't do anything until relit from a fire. A lit torch can't be contained.

If anyone is holding a lit torch within, say, twenty tiles, your home marker is temporarily overwritten and points to the person with the torch. The person holding the torch has their normal marker. This way one person can lead a group of people towards a bell (or to a home marker they've set in a distant expansion camp) without the group members getting lost if they happen to stray a few tiles offscreen.

Couple that with pein's idea of smoke signals - maybe putting pine needles on a fire turns it into a smoky fire for one minute, and then it becomes coals; smoky fires temporarily overwrite the home marker of anyone within, say, one or two hundred tiles.

This would be a big help for anyone trying to caravan to a new settlement, or to the bell, or playing a nomadic tribe - all of which right now are difficult or impossible.

--

Edit: Need to have a five-second delay after dropping the torch before it goes to smoldering, so that whoever is carrying the torch can let it go long enough to eat, then pick it back up and still have it lit. Can't be longer than five seconds, otherwise it becomes a firebrand that never goes out. It's okay if the torch never goes out while you're holding it, though; it's still like a firebrand that never goes out, but it means whoever is holding it can't do anything else productive. That's a reasonable trade-off.

Last edited by CrazyEddie (2019-01-26 23:33:40)

Morti · 2019-01-27 02:43:01

NoTruePunk wrote:

The problem is, each settlement formed in this way can only travel a distance limited by 1 lifetime, which means the territory of the two settlements will overlap. Since your new settlement is green and the old one is advanced eventually your parent civ will hit cars and overtake your territory altogether, defeating the purpose. Without a way to sustain a nomadic society each branching settlement of an original eve camp will be at a fundamental disadvantage. You also can't retain multiple lineages this way, unless you can coordinate with someone from the other lineage over voice chat somehow. The lineage that is left behind will die out, or form their own settlements and your society will go separate ways. This is another way in which child settlements are at a disadvantage, since villages with multiple lineages don't suffer from as much lineage ban.

No, the problem is people who talk more than they play, talking as if they know things from experience.

NoTruePunk wrote:

each settlement formed in this way can only travel a distance limited by 1 lifetime

Wrong.

Obviously it's much less, which is still more than enough.

No civilization has ever, or likely will ever, get to the point where a person sets out on horseback at 14 and returns with a cart of iron at 60, having spent 46 minutes searching and only stopping to eat along the way. Even in the largest, oldest of town chains, I've managed to set out on foot at four years old, found a baskets worth of fresh iron and multiple nodes by 20, returned home by 25 and either set out with an empty horse cart and made baskets, filled them with surface iron and returned home by 45, or, made a stanchion for a node I found, thrown that in a horse cart along with a mining pick, and made two trips there and back to the node, making fresh baskets while out each time and still returning home by 50 to lay them out nicely and tell the smith the story of the journey.

Had I waited either of those times to search on horseback, the finding part would have been much easier. Which is what I have had to do in many other situations, for instance, if there is no horse and no lasso to be found. I will grow the milkweed for the lasso, get someone with knife to cut a woolen sheep for the sheepskin for saddle, sheer another sheep for the ball of thread, cook a rabbit for a needle, if need be, sew the sheepskin into a saddle, hide a carrot near a fence post and be at the wild horses by age 13, waiting for my birthday to bring one home, hitching a cart to the sucker and riding through surface iron and untapped nodes by 25.

I know your expectation of the game that someday we will make a town that has lasted on a public server longer than any other, that is mine too, and we will, but we are still no where near the potential that we have with existing technology. So many other factors have gotten in the way.

--

Don't be on the "Hey Jason, make this game easier." team, be on the team that doesn't complain, but instead chooses to *DO* what has been possible for a very long time. We already have all the things we need to make home chains that can last longer into the future than the game has existed in the past, if, enough people are willing to maintain the chain of events that need to take place when the signs are evident that those changes are needed; feet, reproduction, baskets, backpacks, carts, horses, fast roads, and even cars and fueling stations will, and are, a part of that, but only the first two are truly necessary when coupled with players who have the knowledge gained from experience to support themselves and the infants of their family solely dependent upon them, to survive.

Look, I don't want to sit here on a forum talking about something I want to be experiencing, and I don't want you sitting here on a forum reading about something you, should be learning from experience, yourself.

Nor do I want to hold this community's hand (the forum) through the shadows of the game. You either play the game, living thousands of lives, until yours are the best they can be for your community, every life, or you fall somewhere short of that and get back in the game and make it better.

I'll leave the numbers up to the people who look at code, to tell you why you are wrong, if they care to do so, but you can take my word from experience that no aspect of the game, in just the code itself, is such that it bars a family from existing for as long as the server stays up. Not the iron density across the map. Not walking speed of the characters. Not the regrowth of forageable food. Not the water's potential density on the map. Not the soil. Nothing, is standing in our way from living until the entire map is used up and everyone playing today has long since died in real life.

It just comes down to a few basic things about learning; knowledge, experience, education and intelligence. People need to have, or be willing to receive those things, from others. Unless there is some massive influx of new players to the game where the rate that the players are learning is exceeding the rate that unknowing players are joining, our civilizations would only get more stable with time, Jason's introduction of other factors being reasonable to deal with, unlike apocalypses or sudden, crazy, decay rates not eased into the game.

Jason't not the kind of guy to use lube though. He goes in deep, dry, and fast, and leaves that up to you.

I'm not responding to the rest of your comment, I've made my points.

mrslax · 2019-01-27 06:04:58

I have made a new town a few times. Mostly from a big cities that was being greffed to hell.
Start as a girl. when you are young pack a horse with all you need:

3x Bowl in a basket,

fire-bow, snare, thread-and-needle, all in a basket,

an ax.

The last slot is very optional like hoe or basket with more stuff.
backpack helps a lot with food.

As soon as you can get on that horse keep moving till you find a good spot.
You can move 1 to 2 K away from the city via horse compare if you left younger by foot is only 500 to 1K away.
(I have try both ways and the horse give you a better start)
You will have to get far enough away from the old town to have fresh resources for your new town. also far enough so people just don't run back to the old town right away.

Unlike an eve start you have to start the farming right away. It a much faster build up than an eve start. Its kinda working backward on the build order but food for kids is the most impotent step. Tell your kids what is up and give them jobs to do, things will be moving very fast once kids are working. The idea is so you can have sheep and compost up and running before you die.

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Traveling with people suck, slow, people get lost, and people will die.
Just with only two people is a pain. They bounce around the screen and lag where they are at times.
The best thing I have seen is let the mom raise the kid to the age of 3 then drop it off at some food and dip out. Best the kid makes a town, worst the kid dies. if the kid travel with you they will just die or get lost but mostly just die.

One Hour One Life Forums

#1 2019-01-26 08:17:59

How to caravan?

#2 2019-01-26 10:59:27

Re: How to caravan?

#3 2019-01-26 14:22:47

Re: How to caravan?

#4 2019-01-26 18:55:10

Re: How to caravan?

#5 2019-01-26 19:35:27

Re: How to caravan?

#6 2019-01-26 19:41:52

Re: How to caravan?

#7 2019-01-26 20:52:19

Re: How to caravan?

#8 2019-01-26 21:49:52

Re: How to caravan?

#9 2019-01-26 23:10:30

Re: How to caravan?

#10 2019-01-26 23:18:35

Re: How to caravan?

#11 2019-01-27 02:43:01

Re: How to caravan?

#12 2019-01-27 06:04:58

Re: How to caravan?

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