Why I feel the last few content updates have been lacking.

Twisted · 2019-01-19 16:30:46

First of all, I want to preface this by saying that this is all just my opinion. Many might disagree with me, and that's ok!

I feel like the past few updates have had very little effect on the overall game. While they did add a crazy amount of new items and recipes, those items are usually just crafting ingredients for the main item of the update. And while the main item of the update is usually cool and different, it doesn't really add anything to the game, which means the gameplay loop is exactly the same as it was in the previous version. The main item of the update takes a lot of time and effort to make and is usually made by one or two people, but is only made once to see the new shiny thing and then never touched again. I feel like this applies to every update that came out since the Jungle update in one way or another.

Just to clarify, when I say gameplay loop, I'm talking about the things that you do regularly across multiple lives. This includes core mechanics such as watering the crops, planting new ones, cooking, making compost, etc. It's the things that serve an actual purpose and have to be done by someone, or the village dies. In most of your lives you're going to do at least a little bit of some of those things. My definition of gameplay loop also includes non-core mechanics that are not crucial for a town's survival, but that give a town personality, and might come with some benefits. These non-core mechanics include building roads, building buildings, crafting core items such as buckets or carts, burying people, etc.

Let's do a quick and simple analysis of every update that came out after the Steam release, starting with the Jungle update.

Jungle Update, November 19th
This update added a new biome, which completely changed the Eve gameplay. Jungles have perfect temperature and plenty of food, but they are potentially dangerous, especially for inexperienced players. This biome affects players at any stage of the game, be they an Eve looking for a settlement location or a member of a big city exploring the world for resources. This update also brought us the ability to upgrade carts to carry two more items. While this is not a very 'interesting' thing by itself, it is very useful and fully worthwhile to do. I think that, long-term, the Jungle update is one of the best updates the game ever received.

Turkey Hunt Update, November 22nd
A smaller holiday update. A new wild animal and several new foods, also new hats. Turkeys don't really change the gameplay loop, but this was a holiday update and it did what it was supposed to do - add something thematic. I personally was expecting no update at all that week, so this was a pleasant surprise.

Newcomen Atmospheric Engine Update, November 30th
I was personally disappointed with this update. The Newcomen Atmospheric Core parts are, in my mind, weirdly simple to make. One Hour One Life items often require many steps to make in order to be as realistic as possible, but the Newcomen parts are made by just hitting some iron bars with a hammer. The Newcomen Pump Tower itself is also just some wood on some rocks.

Building the tower doesn't take very long, and once you finish building the tower, your reward more water - not very interesting. The fact that you need to use charcoal to get water is cool though, and I really enjoyed mass producing charcoal for the short time that it was relevant. The tower doesn't really change the gameplay, in fact it makes it worse - previously, when the village ran out of water, people would have to band together and bring water from the surrounding areas. Now water is infinite, so running out of water is much less likely to happen. This update didn't really change the gameplay loop, except that every now and then someone will make a Newcomen Pump.

Black Gold Update, December 8th
A whole set of machines and recipes! Oil! Kerosene! All cool stuff, but they're all just crafting ingredients for the Kerosene Newcomen Pump, which gives you more water than before. More water is good, I guess, but it doesn't really change the gameplay loop.

Internal Combustion Update, December 15th
This update was all about the Diesel Engine. Once you make it, it's used for two things. The first of them is yet another water pump. It is the best water source in the game, but since water is already infinite it's not a very important item to make. The second one is an advanced cart that is faster than your average cart and also requires fuel. While it is cool to drive it around, it's just a faster cart, and your time and resources are probably better spent elsewhere. You might make this once just to see if you can.

Yuletide Together Update, December 21st
New character models! While they don't usually affect the gameplay, new character models make the game look different and I think they are great! We also got snowballs and snowmen, which can be used to cool down hot areas and disarm people. We also got some cosmetic holiday items, but I feel that they take way too many resources and effort for the fact that they only last a few minutes. It takes thirty-four milkweed to light candles that glow for two minutes, which is a bit much.

Apocalypse 2.0 Update, December 28th
Ugh. I think the Apocalypse is a horrible idea. This update adds the Apocalypse, nothing else. Hopefully it never triggers. I do find it kind of funny that the update the week prior talked about how there will never be magic in the game, and then we get an update that's exclusively focused on magic right after it.

Population Stabilization Update, January 5th
Bug fixing update, no new content.

Radio Telegraphy Update, January 12th
The update that got me thinking about making this post. This update adds the radio, an item that is fairly complicated to make that allows you to send and receive signals to other people on the server that also built the radio. Communicating with other towns is not very useful in this game. You have no way of knowing where they are, and even if you did, what would you say to them? You barely have enough time to talk to the people around you, why would you want talk to someone on the other side of the map? This might just be me, but this seems so uninteresting and opposite of what I want to do in this game.

Also, you have to use Morse code to communicate, which makes it even more pointless. This update added a crazy amount of items and recipes, but it's just crafting ingredients for the radio. Probably the most meaningless content update so far.

Romeo Charlie update, January 18th
Same as last week, except you don't have to use morse code anymore, making the previous week's item completely obsolete. Communicating via radio is still pointless. Also, this update seems to be broken at the time that I'm writing this, as the radios don't appear to work at all.

I think the problem with the updates is that the game feels almost exactly the same as it did the week the Jungle Update came out. Not many things have changed. We got a bunch of new well upgrades (and the only reason they're even remotely worth it is because the old wells got significantly nerfed), and that's about it. Also, I do realize we got a bunch of code changes and bug fixes, and that's great! More of those things, please! My problem is not that we're not getting enough content updates, it's that the content we're getting isn't very interesting. I feel like I would enjoy the updates a lot more if they weren't all focused on just one Big Item and the ingredients to make it.

WomanWizard · 2019-01-19 16:54:23

I'm with you completely on this. I don't mind big complex machines being added to the game, that's kind of the end goal, but right now we're not progressing up to them. Not only do we not have a reason to make them expect out of boredom, half the time you can't make them because nobody is tending the berries, the compost cycle has stopped, or you don't have any iron. Most of the towns I get born into these days are on the verge of collapse in some capacity because nobody wants to spend every life doing the same three jobs over and over again.

We need to automate these basic town necessities, or at the very least make them easier. If we want to move on to more complex machines, those machines need to be worth the complexity involved in making them. Why spend multiple lives making a car when one person can slap together a horse cart and still have time to spare to take care of the rest of the town's needs? Why make a radio at all?

Give me a tractor. I'll happily try putting together an engine if it'll make farming faster. Give us bigger kitchens with stoves and large ovens that let you bake whole trays of things at the same time. If these are the types of complex machines that we're getting, people are more likely to feel a need to make them.

And for the love of god, give us bug spray!

UnnoticedShadow · 2019-01-19 17:00:48

I have to say, I totally agree with you. While a lot of these updates don't change the game-play loop, I feel there is so much to be modified in said loop! Giving clothing a use, making fences worth building (made out of butt logs?) adding food decay in one way or another, or even reworking water/soil so that there are other ways than clay to pick them up! (other biomes should be survivable) While personally i'm loving the direction the game is going, higher and higher on the tech tree, there is a lot of stuff at the core of design that needs to be re-engineered first, to make those items of use.

BlueDiamondAvatar · 2019-01-19 17:04:44

Yes, yes, and yes. I totally agree with everything you wrote in this post. I'm one of those Steam players. I started playing the week before the jungle update, so it set my expectations on the quality of game content we'd get every week. But since I'm not any good at smithing (even after 500+ hours of gameplay), I'm never going to build a newcommen machine of any type. I just figured out how to do the foundation block - so I can block off bear caves in villages I like.

None of this changes the fact that I'm completely addicted to this game as it is... but it would be nice to get a content update that made me happy instead of ranty. The closest to that I've seen is population stabilization update. Which was awesome specifically because it was responsive to player requests.

This game may be Jason's baby, but he really CAN'T know what impacts the typical player's experiences. Because he could not possibly play as often as the hardcore players and keep up with the coding and stay sane. Yet he keeps making pronouncements about what impacts player gameplay the most. This is the core problem of the game right now. Jason needs to listen more.

Glad you seem to be feeling better, Twisted.

P.S. Hi Steve! It's your sister, Hope!

Booklat1 · 2019-01-19 17:07:53

This is good critique, good seeing you making suggestions here bruh. Some things I need to comment:

Twisted wrote:

Jungle Update, November 19th
This update added a new biome, which completely changed the Eve gameplay. Jungles have perfect temperature and plenty of food, but they are potentially dangerous, especially for inexperienced players. This biome affects players at any stage of the game, be they an Eve looking for a settlement location or a member of a big city exploring the world for resources. This update also brought us the ability to upgrade carts to carry two more items. While this is not a very 'interesting' thing by itself, it is very useful and fully worthwhile to do. I think that, long-term, the Jungle update is one of the best updates the game ever received.

I've wanted jungles for a long time, more biomes in general. This is contente that is relevant all game and it came in a very good time (post steam hell). We kept getting uses for rubber and I think that's the best legacy this update left, maybe even better than changing eve runs. I like when basic resources get more uses after being originally added, this adds to the techtree and the economy.

Twisted wrote:

Newcomen Atmospheric Engine Update, November 30th (...)
Building the tower doesn't take very long, and once you finish building the tower, your reward more water - not very interesting. The fact that you need to use charcoal to get water is cool though, and I really enjoyed mass producing charcoal for the short time that it was relevant. The tower doesn't really change the gameplay, in fact it makes it worse - previously, when the village ran out of water, people would have to band together and bring water from the surrounding areas. Now water is infinite, so running out of water is much less likely to happen. This update didn't really change the gameplay loop, except that every now and then someone will make a Newcomen Pump.
Black Gold Update, December 8th
A whole set of machines and recipes! Oil! Kerosene! All cool stuff, but they're all just crafting ingredients for the Kerosene Newcomen Pump, which gives you more water than before. More water is good, I guess, but it doesn't really change the gameplay loop.
Internal Combustion Update, December 15th
This update was all about the Diesel Engine. Once you make it, it's used for two things. The first of them is yet another water pump. It is the best water source in the game, but since water is already infinite it's not a very important item to make. The second one is an advanced cart that is faster than your average cart and also requires fuel. While it is cool to drive it around, it's just a faster cart, and your time and resources are probably better spent elsewhere. You might make this once just to see if you can.

When we started getting pumps I was thrilled, They meant an iron sink, a needed nerf to water and slightly changing the mechanic. I think everything worked and making tons of coal was fun as fuck. Then we all realized most of this technology is obsolete. Newcomen pumps aren't too good but we have so much kindling it's not such a need to upgrade it. At the same time, there is little pressure from water, coal and soil economy to slow down the progress into machining or to push us into it. A city with sheep, newecomen pump and enough trees could live for a long time and it can progress without much hassle. I blame this entirely on too much food/little uses for coal in steam era. After all, making almost infinite water and using only 0.25 bowls of it to make a mutton pie is waaaaaay too OP.

Twisted wrote:

Radio Telegraphy Update, January 12th
The update that got me thinking about making this post. This update adds the radio, an item that is fairly complicated to make that allows you to send and receive signals to other people on the server that also built the radio. Communicating with other towns is not very useful in this game. You have no way of knowing where they are, and even if you did, what would you say to them? You barely have enough time to talk to the people around you, why would you want talk to someone on the other side of the map? This might just be me, but this seems so uninteresting and opposite of what I want to do in this game.
Also, you have to use Morse code to communicate, which makes it even more pointless. This update added a crazy amount of items and recipes, but it's just crafting ingredients for the radio. Probably the most meaningless content update so far.
Romeo Charlie update, January 18th
Same as last week, except you don't have to use morse code anymore, making the previous week's item completely obsolete. Communicating via radio is still pointless. Also, this update seems to be broken at the time that I'm writing this, as the radios don't appear to work at all. .

This one is tough for me, I actually suggested radios just like these not long ago. My main thing with the suggestion was to push other ways of intervillage communication. Also liked the idea of grinding for new resources and building towards electricity. But for communication to be meta it still needs more than content pushing communication, there has to be a need to talk to other people, find other lines, gather copper. Currently, there isn't.

Before steam we were all content starved for weeks and weeks, we got a shitton of straightforward content since we asked for it. It's time we go back to asking Jason for balances, new mechanics, mechanic overhauls. I think adding more variation to neolitic gameplay and increasing the number of uses for kindling in sheep era (like nerfing ovens and adding better ones and more uses for branches) already would slow down or tech climbing and spice the gameplays a bit. fertilizers, food decay, stuff Jason mentioned but still hasn't added would help but at one point he needs to work on making economies a little more challenging and diverse. This way t may become useful to call your neighbour town asking if they have some resource you don't. This way it may become useful to gather limestone or whatever in batches, because they are important to some few secondary production lines, not just because you want to make a dew of a novelty item.

happynova · 2019-01-19 17:57:14

Hmm. I completely agree with the assertion that updates like the last couple don't really change the "gameplay loop," but I guess I don't necessarily see this as a bad thing. I don't think every update really needs to fundamentally change the nature of gameplay. In fact, I think I may prefer it if they don't do that every single time. Sometimes RL means I may only have a three or four hours a week to play, and at times like that it can be dizzying to try to keep up with changes that alter how you need to approach basic things in the game. I can only imagine how much more difficult it may be for more casual or sporadic players. (Actually, I don't have to entirely imagine it. I've certainly encountered enough people in-game who were acting on out-of-date information and getting confused.)

Personally, I'm fine with the idea that sometimes we get really significant game-changing stuff, and sometimes it's just little tweaks or a few new fun items, and sometimes it's complicated stuff at the top of the tech tree that mostly just seem to be there as a challenge for advanced players who want to try something complicated (or maybe also as technology to build further, more game-changing stuff on down the road). Especially given the fact that the entire game is still a work in progress, and that it all comes down to one guy making it up as he goes along and just trying his best do interesting things week after week. I think there's probably a point past which we may just be expecting too much from him.

I mean, if from now on everything was the equivalent of more cars and radios, I'd probably start expressing disappointment, but as it is, I feel pretty laid-back about the whole thing. Is that really a super-unpopular opinion? Maybe I'm a little too easily satisfied? Maybe I'm just not consistently playing enough hours to get as bored as many of the rest of you? I don't know.

I do agree with Womanwizard on the bug spray, though.

Dodge · 2019-01-19 18:14:50

Radios could actually become one of the most useful item in the game atm in terms of communication between villages but it would need a couple of changes : not spreading players on different servers when there is less than 70-80 person on a server (or enough people to have multiple big villages), more precise indication of distance for the bell marker and also more than one home and bell marker would be nice

Since making a radio doesnt require you to wait a certain amount of time like the bell towers except the time making it, you can make it relatively quickly

Since the marker of a bell tower is shared between all players on a server you can use this as a reference point to indicate distance and find other villages closer to your village, for example you could send by radio a message like "we are 2'320 tiles west from bell tower" and a receiving village that is maybe 2'600 tiles west from bell could travel to the other village and maybe make a road to it, since it would be only 280 tiles away from the other village

CrazyEddie · 2019-01-19 18:16:07

Twisted wrote:

I feel like the past few updates have had very little effect on the overall game. While they did add a crazy amount of new items and recipes, those items are usually just crafting ingredients for the main item of the update. And while the main item of the update is usually cool and different, it doesn't really add anything to the game, which means the gameplay loop is exactly the same as it was in the previous version. The main item of the update takes a lot of time and effort to make and is usually made by one or two people, but is only made once to see the new shiny thing and then never touched again. I feel like this applies to every update that came out since the Jungle update in one way or another.

I agree with this.

I don't think that necessarily means that the recent updates are bad. I like that all of these new things exist, even if they don't modify the core gameplay. Toys and trinkets and challenges are good.

But I agree that more content that enhances the core gameplay would be very, very welcome. Greater diversity in options among the required paths, and greater interaction between those paths. Right now there's a very small set of things that you must do, and you have no realistic alternative to doing them, and you must in general do them the same way each time, and you must devote most of your effort to doing them.

I love that we have shiny toys like the cars and the radios and the christmas trees, but I'm sad that so few people will get to make them because we have to spend so much time fixing the broken compost cycle or everyone starves. We have lots of other things we can make along the way, like stew and tacos and clothing and crowns, but none of them are integrated into the path of civilization. They're branches away from the trunk - they aren't necessary and they don't go anywhere important.

The path upwards along the trunk isn't bad. It's good. It's complicated and challenging, but it's linear and mandatory. I'd love to see more content that transforms the tree trunk into a set of intertwining pillars.

Booklat1 · 2019-01-19 18:23:54

CrazyEddie wrote:

I love that we have shiny toys like the cars and the radios and the christmas trees, but I'm sad that so few people will get to make them because we have to spend so much time fixing the broken compost cycle or everyone starves.

And when the cycle is going strong it can make food for many generations forward. I wish compost was less feast or famineish

happynova · 2019-01-19 18:35:58

CrazyEddie wrote:

But I agree that more content that enhances the core gameplay would be very, very welcome. Greater diversity in options among the required paths, and greater interaction between those paths. Right now there's a very small set of things that you must do, and you have no realistic alternative to doing them, and you must in general do them the same way each time, and you must devote most of your effort to doing them.

Well, now, this I do agree with! I'd love to feel like we have meaningful options when it comes to how to climb the tech tree and grow a town. Having the ability to make choices about how to do things (as opposed to just what to do when) feels good, and different ways to achieve the same effects would make different towns feel a lot more interestingly individual, too. I'd be all for more of that.

But I can see why new ways to do old things might be much less of a priority for Jason than adding new things to do.

UnnoticedShadow · 2019-01-19 19:09:16

The thing about food in it's current state, is that it needs both a nerf and a buff. While food undeniably is *extremely* easy to come by, the extremely quickly draining hunger bar sort of makes up for that, but that leaves the game in a very awkward state where people don't starve because there wasn't enough food in the village, rather said food was not available in their immediate surroundings. Villages should die when they run out of food, because not only does it make deaths feel more *fair* but it also opens the door for more complex foods which might actually be more useful, with them increasing food efficiency. The current system we have works against this: Both in that you starve way too easily, but also in that food is so easy to come by, puts emphasis on accessibility and not efficiency, causing people to live purely off of pies and berries if they can, because the effort for that extra food bar isn't worth it, and to big hunger filling foods just fill the whole hunger bar, and lose real value.

Tarr · 2019-01-19 21:32:08

happynova wrote:

CrazyEddie wrote:
But I agree that more content that enhances the core gameplay would be very, very welcome. Greater diversity in options among the required paths, and greater interaction between those paths. Right now there's a very small set of things that you must do, and you have no realistic alternative to doing them, and you must in general do them the same way each time, and you must devote most of your effort to doing them.
Well, now, this I do agree with! I'd love to feel like we have meaningful options when it comes to how to climb the tech tree and grow a town. Having the ability to make choices about how to do things (as opposed to just what to do when) feels good, and different ways to achieve the same effects would make different towns feel a lot more interestingly individual, too. I'd be all for more of that.
But I can see why new ways to do old things might be much less of a priority for Jason than adding new things to do.

The thing is if you give options to early game how much do they really matter? Early game is already something that can be finished within one to three generations (my definition of early game is no sheep, all steel tools unfinished.) Adding in more options at the very bottom might seem great but if you are only using these options in the first 40 minutes of a villages life it seems like a complete waste of development time.

Not to mention this could become noob traps for players not knowing better. "Oh they made copper tools, I guess they were too lazy to go get iron /die." The biggest issue with early game besides almost always being the same thing is the amount of people just sort of standing around doing nothing.

CrazyEddie · 2019-01-19 22:05:33

Tarr wrote:

The thing is if you give options to early game how much do they really matter? Early game is already something that can be finished within one to three generations (my definition of early game is no sheep, all steel tools unfinished.) Adding in more options at the very bottom might seem great but if you are only using these options in the first 40 minutes of a villages life it seems like a complete waste of development time.
Not to mention this could become noob traps for players not knowing better. "Oh they made copper tools, I guess they were too lazy to go get iron /die." The biggest issue with early game besides almost always being the same thing is the amount of people just sort of standing around doing nothing.

There's always going to be one path that's optimal, and you and pein are always going to find it. That's fine. As long as the other paths are interesting and fun then they'd be a worthwhile addition to the game (for everyone other than the minmaxers).

The "trunk" as I put it extends up through the newcomen engines. I'd love to see more content that creates multiple intertwining pathways not just in early game but all the way through. I also think you're dramatically underselling the value of early game simply because you're good enough to blow through it quickly. Most people spend a lot more time there than you do; you don't notice that because it doesn't happen when you're around. Also, there's plenty of time spent in the middle game (post sheep and tools) that's still a lot of work, still mandatory, and still very repetitive. Lots of room there for the kind of diverse pathing that I'm asking for; lots of value that it would bring to the game.

BlueDiamondAvatar · 2019-01-19 22:05:52

Tarr wrote:

The thing is if you give options to early game how much do they really matter? Early game is already something that can be finished within one to three generations (my definition of early game is no sheep, all steel tools unfinished.)

I just finished playing over an hour of triplet eveing with Michie and Nepumuk, where we found NOTHING. IMHO, the way in which early game needs help is it needs more biome combinations that are playable as an eve. More water options, more fiber options, more quick ways to manage temperature. Etc.

ryanb · 2019-01-19 22:34:54

One issue is the lack of motivation to use the new content. They mostly solve a problem that doesn't exist which makes it more of a novelty.

Survival is the main motivator, and these new items don't contribute to that. Food is the only resource which is required for survival which leads to an interesting balance in the resources used for food: water, soil, and some iron. This is the part of the game mechanic I find most interesting. The new pumps did effect this, but I'd like to see it consume other resources continually: iron, soil, or another resource. This gives more problems to solve.

Once you have "solved" the food issue in a city, what else is there to do? We need a game mechanic that motivates us further. Perhaps play around with sanity, disease, disabilities, need for shelter, etc. If there are more factors to surviving there can be more tech to solve these problems.

Grim_Arbiter · 2019-01-19 23:09:10

They can't all be zingers.

Go! Bwah! · 2019-01-19 23:39:45

Does this go back a lot farther? Do people use plaster and paint? Do they still make signs? What about horse-taming?

I haven't played for a while so maybe things have changed, but it seems like... things never changed.

Crumpaloo · 2019-01-20 00:28:32

This kinda echos a not to long ago post i made about what the actualy effects these new updates had on the game:

1. Functionally these new items have very little if no effect on core gameplay which is the reason you think people would be expecting these updates to bring in the first place

2. Asthetically, the updates of the car and radios look really interesting, and bring a wow factor with them to boot, thats about as far as they put out, cars get stolen, and radios are meaningless as of right now

3. Older inventions that COULD have a effect of core gameplay have been left out of implementation and as a result it feels like were skipping 500 years each invention that gets released making the game feel more disjointed and in genuine with its product then it has to be

pein · 2019-01-20 04:05:42

its ok, its soemthing, its content, not noobfix and bugfix like the tutorial and lag optimization was, that was boring

i miss some balancing and outbranching
there is a problem, there is a solution
jason seems to make the game harder but its not really harder, its just more tedious, it doesn't matter if 50 people are around, i will need to fix the issues, or the few veterans, others just don't see the big picture

this just made the game harder in communication area. and boi i hate to explain stuff when they arent capable understanding it.

now one thing i already posted on github (jason already hates me for ideas as bugs ) but makes sense to me
sand is a new resource and glas. but right now is just garbage, unremovable, and only used by radios
would make sense to have a high tech option for bowls, plates, maybe bigger containers, glass walls and windows
also to dig the sand pile

i feel like older annoyances,, like useless animals, and potato should be fixed, extended upon

i would like options to adapt to certain maps, some culture like totems and sculptures
different routes to take to archive same thing

which would mean smaller update but very specific, adding new jobs to do

also some sort of conflict, like tropico had between factions

while here wont work that well with actual players

for example there was the nationalists and the liberals, where immigration was the main question and the levels of wealth
we got some forms to deny access to things and i get that there is no xp system or any form of meritocracy but people abusing this with curses, and its so backwards
i like snowballs for the fact is so easy form of dealing with problematic people
and it requires some skill

there is still no benefit of rooms like central heating or requirement for a certain tech
and kinda hard to make rooms, and we don't really do it. deny access or plan things with others would be nice

intellectual vs militarists
in tropico was a battle between making schools and teaching people, making higher tech or havign bigger population also some sort of dictature, and fight the rebels off
now better birth control with more player choice and a better battle system, like duel proposals would be interesting

religions vs intelectuals
some sort of religions supported would be ok
it would be funny actually but it would need some sort of automatic system, like a god or something and some rules, which you could make
for example choose a holy item/animal, making altars, getting some benefit for it, saying prayers (same as curses would earn points)
on other hand, some type of research system? which would be a conflict of interest but diving people on beliefs would be interesting

industrialist vs enviromentalists
some form of pollution, cleaning up pollution, more storage or more production question
having to build nice things to increase morale, maybe a third bar for people, would be kind of fun i guess

the problem is, that we make up things and they got no actual gameplay advantage, maybe some psychological ones, like making a nice farm with boards around it, it has a bit of advantage when working and setting up a pattern so they follow it, but it isn't that obvious for everyone

but with some support like health bar, moral bar we could make it work
i stil lthink we would need some sort of point system or quest system, or a form of measuring, even if something goofy with no advantage just maybe some visuals like sponges become fat and workers become more muscular

JonySky · 2019-01-20 11:48:47

I think it is only necessary to open a history book to realize that at this moment you can create many machines and useful objects, with common sense and totally necessary

here we talk about useful objects such as anvils, irrigation system, livestock, etc ... but you can also create less useful objects, such as steam looms, churches, canned food ... etc .. there are many objects and machines that can be created in this evolutionary moment of the game ...

I was very disappointed when I saw the basic vehicles deployed, but we are still not able to be properly dressed in the desert ...

the radio is another clear example of an article out of its time ... that a radio serves when we have to worry about not dying of cold / heat or hunger

we must remember that our current civilization (in real life) has been built from needs ... for example: buildings and constructions allowed us to leave the caves ...

but anyway I do not care to see an unusable object, but please be within the normal evolutionary line ... without strange fantasies or magic

Last edited by JonySky (2019-01-20 11:49:53)

Booklat1 · 2019-01-20 13:41:16

Side tech trunks are fine as long as they fill a funcion. Currently we all absolutely need to have grass + heat biome + water when starting a civ, anything that balances that is worth adding to the game I believe. Why not have more recipes with limed corn pre -sheep/pigs for example? These are hard to make but would allow some iron efficient foods before mines.

One thing that displeases me is how close we are to corn techtree being relevant. Milk is already overpowered but cows seem to be glitched. The only reason we don't use paint is because we dont build, which is another major flaw in the current version of the game, but paint uses limestone just like masa dough. We also don't do pigs because you need masa dough for them to have any use, which we never do because we don't wanna bother with the work. However if buildings ever become more useful/needed we are likely to see paint, which already makes half this techtree more viable. This is a lot more tech used while in sheep era for one base feature reworked.

Crumpaloo · 2019-01-20 16:43:20

JonySky wrote:

I think it is only necessary to open a history book to realize that at this moment you can create many machines and useful objects, with common sense and totally necessary
here we talk about useful objects such as anvils, irrigation system, livestock, etc ... but you can also create less useful objects, such as steam looms, churches, canned food ... etc .. there are many objects and machines that can be created in this evolutionary moment of the game ...
I was very disappointed when I saw the basic vehicles deployed, but we are still not able to be properly dressed in the desert ...
the radio is another clear example of an article out of its time ... that a radio serves when we have to worry about not dying of cold / heat or hunger
we must remember that our current civilization (in real life) has been built from needs ... for example: buildings and constructions allowed us to leave the caves ...
but anyway I do not care to see an unusable object, but please be within the normal evolutionary line ... without strange fantasies or magic

I think Jason needs to get as much suggestions as possible, then make a decision about what he wants for the game, and then, stick with it. This relapse from wanting realism to the apocalypse, and wanting villages to die out, but not as fast so they can build the latest tech is getting really tedious and makes it hard to understand the path Jason wants the game to take.

Spoonwood · 2019-02-08 19:12:07

Twisted wrote:

First of all, I want to preface this by saying that this is all just my opinion. Many might disagree with me, and that's ok!

Newcomen Atmospheric Engine Update, November 30th
I was personally disappointed with this update. The Newcomen Atmospheric Core parts are, in my mind, weirdly simple to make. One Hour One Life items often require many steps to make in order to be as realistic as possible, but the Newcomen parts are made by just hitting some iron bars with a hammer. The Newcomen Pump Tower itself is also just some wood on some rocks.
Building the tower doesn't take very long, and once you finish building the tower, your reward more water - not very interesting. The fact that you need to use charcoal to get water is cool though, and I really enjoyed mass producing charcoal for the short time that it was relevant. The tower doesn't really change the gameplay, in fact it makes it worse - previously, when the village ran out of water, people would have to band together and bring water from the surrounding areas. Now water is infinite, so running out of water is much less likely to happen. This update didn't really change the gameplay loop, except that every now and then someone will make a Newcomen Pump.

I feel like you've glossed an important detail here, since rubber I don't think simple to make. It also requires multiple biomes in that you have to find a hot spring, a rubber tree, and a palm tree. If you're not in or near a desert with a hot spring that can mean either walking far away from home or using a horse and having to get it near a desert or fence it near a desert. So, I don't see how that Newcomen tech ends up as simple to make as you suggest, even the newcomen pump. And the whole process of making rubber I think qualifies as complicated.

I think I agree with the rest of your post though.

InSpace · 2019-02-08 20:30:37

The big servers patch is epic and the new items are just like version one, they'll get a use. Like imagine what he can add with the loom and sand! Don't listen to any hate J-man

Nepumuk · 2019-02-08 21:26:20

This thread is like 3 weeks old and was necroed, just leave it.

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