Grief Resistant Pen Concept

disoculated · 2019-01-15 07:27:57

I have seen the airlock-style pen conversions, and while I applaud the ingenuity, I find them to be a huge pita when multiple players are going in and out of the pen. Escapes are common as well.

So I submit this design as a double walled pen with gates in the corners for controlling traditional through-the-diagonal access.

This is a partially completed design for a new grief resistant pen. The completed conversion will allow for the removal of all base stones with the exception of the each corner's three around the berry plant. Again, note the gate, which unlike the airlock-style, doesn't allow for escaping animals.

Grief-proof is of course impossible, but this adds significant extra steps more than just using a shovel or bowl of water. For griefing that can't be mitigated by quickly closing the gate(s), several steps are required and should be easy to spot while in-progress: "Why do you have a mallet and a shovel right next to each other over by the pen?"

Royalties for this design payable in bowls of berries and carrots to your nearest pen manager.

pein · 2019-01-15 08:20:30

there is grief proof pen just kinda expensive

sand tiles are unremovable atm
so you can use them instead of berry bushes

there are newcommen blocks which are unremovable, but cant fit corner entrances then
also its an expensive way to make it very hard to grief tiles: locked chest and car base
if you want some storage, its long to make it but its long to grief it

disoculated · 2019-01-15 15:49:03

pein wrote:

there is grief proof pen just kinda expensive

As you yourself say: "long to make and long to grief". Long to grief isn't grief proof, so I continue to maintain that a grief proof pen is impossible. Since that's an axiom, the goal I am presenting here is trying to find the least work for the most grief-resistance. There have been some great ideas in this direction, like the airlock, or use of locked boxes, but those have their own problems as well.

Locked boxes, and boxes in general, really are the worst of the worst though.

1) Locks are evil evil evil. Killing people who make locks should be, like, everyone's number one goal. It's codified griefing... you get to throw away things permanently while pretending you aren't. I'd like to say I'm joking but I'm really not. Ha ha ha?
2) While the extensive time (which the pen builder is unlikely to live to see completed) to turn the boxes into locked boxes is going on, a griefer now doesn't even need forged steel to bust the pen. They just walk up with the fire stick from the forge/kitchen and carry your box away. Bonus grief: "I didn't know that would happen... I was making a wheelbarrow... Oh, you needed that stick for lighting fires?". Aaarrrgggghhhhh

pein · 2019-01-15 18:04:35

nope, 2 days ago i had a town where a kid was popping up at age 8 shooting girls
the solution was to keep one knife at me, one at the other guy and lock up the rest
as for old age, you either get someone trustful to hold it, or lock it away until you come back
truth is some are on a good skill level some not, if you don't know the rules of holding weapons:
-have storage
-do the jobs needing a knife
-don't give weapons to babies
-don't give weapons on relation basis, only on skill basis

car boxes are good tho, just is a lot of setup
an upgraded cart can hold 6, you make 6 rubber at a time and get 6 sulfur, restarting 2 hot springs
carts are most useful tech so far
and upgraded carts make firewood, boards, branches, clay transporting much better
so that should be full time job
a box with wheels can only be moved with an engine and kerosene, so if you can afford it, they are great

the thing you did with that pen is only bad because that pen is small
you can be paranoid that people dig it accidentally or intentionally
a griefer always chooses the easiest way
no way to open the pen? kill all the sheep
i would say if you make fences around pen, then make a goose pen from it, next to it
if they grief the inner wall the animals mix up, not the biggest issue

the thing about pens is, that square pens are the most wall/free tile efficient, as center tiles don't need walls, and square has the most center tiles
so double walling instead of extending is kinda waste
rather make a 7x7 inner side out of newcommen bases and front entrances (still needs something else on right side)
if you know how to position it correctly (not too hot, not too far fro ma good oven position and farms)

or make a second one, a good griefer will grief it anyway
the general naked troll wont go 50 tile away to see there is another pen

disoculated · 2019-01-15 21:25:57

All one does with a lockbox is tell their fellow villagers they think they are better than everyone else. There's nothing you can do to stop someone from going out of town and making a bow and arrow between the ages of 3 and 10, and then shooting someone. Locks do nothing about that except delay/prevent justice. You said "2 days ago"? That's every other life for me these days. Maybe you point your client directly at a server or play at more civilized times... I'm riding the reflector past midnight EST and it's pretty ugly out there.

My favorite locks? The ones on the doors with all the medical supplies inside. I love feeling like my kid doesn't deserve to have their boar wound healed.

But I think we're digressing on the issue of pens with the lock/lockbox discussion. Which I obviously have strong, not-pen-related feelings about.

I think it's fair to say, and that you didn't address, that making a pen out of lockboxes would take a very long amount of time. I also think that a car box is quite prohibitive for an entire pen. You only get one lifetime to complete this, right? Even with just base stones or posts, doing a well-done and complete pen in one lifetime is extremely difficult, especially when you toss in people taking/consuming the tools or resources you need.

As for the size, the picture is a mid-conversion of an existing pen. I agree, it's too small.. but it was what I had to work with. I did manage to (barely) complete the outer frame by the end of that lifetime. Note that this project started because this pen had three wooden boxes in its design and someone decided to just walk away with two of them. Did the person working on it die before putting in locks? Did the get bored? Think they were done? I don't know. But they weren't lockboxes when I got there, and my complaint on boxes in pens is not theoretical.

Killing all the sheep requires a knife. If they have a knife, the amount of grief they can cause is already very high. In fact, someone who does kill all the sheep usually is loudly announcing that they need to be put down, and maybe we should be glad that they did so without killing anyone else?

I have enjoyed your using your diagrams in the past, btw. Thank you very much for taking the time to write and draw that up. I probably wouldn't be posting my thoughts on this right now if they hadn't helped me out earlier.

pein · 2019-01-16 04:51:57

griefers are too lazy to make their own arrows, if they do they deserve a kill
truth is even decent players talk bullshit but too lazy to make their own resources, be that plates, stone blocks, anything

yeah i can make a 7x7 quite fast but i done it a few times
5x5 is decent. 3x3 ok. just no berry bushes on all side cause that means final, if we talk about average persons, 5x5 is decent final size

truth is not much you can do if griefers come
i was griefing the other day as revenge for being killed for doing the right thing
i just went around mixing useful things with totally dumb stuff, they even folowed me and i acted like an overcharged newbee, most players don't realize what naked guys do

the main issue is population, people are bored, envious, want drama
i play at night and sometimes morning which is afternoon for some usa people
now we did some civilized cities on s5, and with time griefers are coming in but the decent veterans can fend it off

there are all sorts of problems with huge population and the less skill people got the more mad they are for small things

luring bears is a legit strategy by people who want population control
mine is to feed all berries to sheep, that's non violent and filters out the bad ones, then decent people get the clothes and they give a bit better instructions

being overly paranoid is same thing, feels like a waste
take out a lamb to 100 tiles and feed it, maybe shear it and leave 2 sheepfood and a rope near it
as long as its sheared stays in a small biome
maybe make an outpost with another pen and just take some girl out there

people want fun, or just drama anyway

if want grief proof, try newcommen bases and potato or sand pile entrances with potato planted near it
that's a lot of hassle to undig and lot of hassle to block

people just want to simplify stuff, i made those designs to show working possibilities
is always nice to make different setups to differentiate the cities
and i like to adapt to maps, using the same methode can be bad and wasteful on different maps

mrslax · 2019-01-16 19:56:41

That pen is a big waste of wood and time.

Not all four corners need to be open, I like to make only 2 openings in sheep pens. It helps to keep an eye on ppl going in and out.

I like to leave one or two Domestic Mouflon outside of town due to they don't eat carrots, keep making new sheep, and are overlooked by most people. Then killing all the sheep is not that big of a deal if you have 2 Domestic Mouflon running around.

just don't use doors, they are useless.

disoculated · 2019-01-16 22:27:43

mrslax wrote:

That pen is a big waste of wood and time.

Eh, I could see why you would say that, but since wood regrows and time is what anyone building it decides to spend, I'm going to respectfully disagree. It's less of a waste than roads next to farms and forges, or wood floor in deserts, which are actively harmful.. but are popular as well?

I agree on corners, one or two are usually fine. I've let sheared sheep roam around as a method of replenishment, but hadn't thought of domestic mouflon. That's a really interesting idea, but it's a different part of a security profile... There should be prevention as well as mitigation IMHO. Otherwise we could just stick with adobe and let anyone with a bowl of water open the thing up.

Jadelink · 2019-01-17 07:16:18

Agreed. Long term, lockboxes are often PRO-greifing tools. I have literally had to stop having babies and frantically forge knives, as some long dead ancestor had 'protected' our town from griefers by locking them all away. Our last iron was spent on knives, when we could see box full of them, behind a locked door...

pein · 2019-01-17 10:57:34

yeah that's why i did the one with diagonal berries, its actually using same amount of walls, as it just pushes the whole thing out by 1 tile, so it makes a 6x7 or 5x6, if one entrance is to the city and one is to the outside, then you can dump bones on one and transport mutton on the other
generally i only do that from adobe on swamp jungle cities if there is a lot of reed stumps and not much stone

yeah i don't get why people don't do pens instead of stupid rooms in stupid position with no purpose at all
i mean i cant even feel comfortable in a smithing room when there is no space above for adobe or run behind kilns
and at least 3 tiles visible under it (which means 4 with the big walls) and at least 1 space between kilns and 2 on 2 sides
that's 6x7 inner size minimum

boards around berries are not a waste, even on desert, it stops extending, now for real, before was just a mental trick, the other day i even tried tilling on wood board if you give a shape to farm they might keep it like that

One Hour One Life Forums

#1 2019-01-15 07:27:57

Grief Resistant Pen Concept

#2 2019-01-15 08:20:30

Re: Grief Resistant Pen Concept

#3 2019-01-15 15:49:03

Re: Grief Resistant Pen Concept

#4 2019-01-15 18:04:35

Re: Grief Resistant Pen Concept

#5 2019-01-15 21:25:57

Re: Grief Resistant Pen Concept

#6 2019-01-16 04:51:57

Re: Grief Resistant Pen Concept

#7 2019-01-16 19:56:41

Re: Grief Resistant Pen Concept

#8 2019-01-16 22:27:43

Re: Grief Resistant Pen Concept

#9 2019-01-17 07:16:18

Re: Grief Resistant Pen Concept

#10 2019-01-17 10:57:34

Re: Grief Resistant Pen Concept

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