On zoom mods, should I use one?

Gnomon · 2018-12-09 23:23:56

After only 3 hours of gameplay when I purchased the game several weeks ago, I have not played a single life since - albeit while watching a fair amount of OHOL content and reading this forum. One of the reasons for that absence is the question of zoom mods, and my indecision about if I should use one.

I have thoroughly read the old thread about Awbz' mod, and noted that some players found themselves unable to go back to the base game after using it enough. Some even claimed they would quit OHOL were the mod discontinued without alternative. I have played a couple of lives with the mod, but am afraid to use it more before figuring out if I want to play with mods long term.

You may reasonably ask: why would I not want to use the mod?

My thoughts on that subject seem to boil down into experiencing the game as it was intended - specifically immersion. Nothing breaks immersion quite like loading map chunks - and zooming out far enough drastically depersonalizes the experience from my perspective. That alone might be enough to keep me on the base game, but I have concerns about that - which is what brings me here.

The utility of any zoom mod, let alone Awbz' masterpiece, is undeniable. It seems a problem that any player without the mod is notably less efficient and therefore less valuable to a village than they would be with the mod. Avoiding it can almost be seen as preserving your game experience at the cost of your line's survival chances. Awbz' mod users are virtually playing a whole different game, which is especially true in terms of scouting, hunting, and griefing. It is that last point that gives me pause.

I'm well aware that an experienced player can be an invaluable asset to a line without the mod - I've spent several hours watching Wolvenscar's stream, and I can't imagine one of his village members being disappointed with his contributions in most respects. That being said, when faced with a mod-wielding griefer, he basically had to hope a friendly mod-user would deal with them. And I really can't argue with that - there was nothing else to be done.

For the time being - and the next several dozen gameplay hours - I won't be much help against griefers anyway, except possibly noting their existence or being a witness if someone else confronts them. Even that much would be less common without the mod, but in the long run it appears near impossible to deal with intelligent griefers if they are the only one with the mod.

In short, I far and away prefer the immersion and aesthetic of the base game, but am concerned enough about mod griefers, and simply being useful to those around me that I am considering using the mod anyway. Also, I don't consider it feasible to "use" the mod without zooming out until a griefer shows up - I'm either going to play the game in its purest form, or use mods for everything that they are worth.

As far as I can tell, Jason is never going to change the base field of view, and he also cannot stop people from using client mods even if he wanted to - so this conundrum exists as long as the official servers do.

I would be grateful for thoughts from anyone who has an opinion or comment on this subject, but specifically:

If you have actively decided against using zoom mods - why did you do that, and what has your experience been when faced with griefers, and the other obstacles that are built in?

If you always, or sometimes use zoom mods - what made you decide to use them, and do you ever end up frustrated with the results of other village members not using one?

startafight · 2018-12-09 23:42:10

im not one to give a shit abt game purity or whatever n if i could work up enough effort to actually understand how to install the mod i would do it in a heartbeat. im just an illiterate piece of shit so i live without it

honestly if u play a lil more u would prolly agree that the immersion of ohol as intended by jason is only fun on its own for a couple of lives n then its up to u as the player to decide how u want to play

cos if u live ur life like the trailer suggests - rping a family n passing along tips to newbs n always working towards something for the civ - for ur entire gaming experience u would be bored out of ur mind. unless u do some whacky rp like some ppl on the forums do

the zoom out mod is useful if u want to become as efficient as possible n extend ur lives as long as u want them to be. it gives u more control as the player, rather than the character n this choice is completely up to u n whatever u choose is fucking valid. but tbh id install the mod cos fuck snakes

wio · 2018-12-09 23:50:12

Only 3 hours of game play?
You should try living out a handful of lives to old age, then mess around with the zoom out mod.

Gnomon · 2018-12-10 00:08:33

wio wrote:

Only 3 hours of game play?
You should try living out a handful of lives to old age, then mess around with the zoom out mod.

Ultimately, I will end up doing just that over the coming weeks. This was mostly to ask for thoughts about whether veterans without the mod have been running into trouble with griefers as a result, and how they arrived at their decision to not use it.

Even if I become convinced that I'll be using the mod eventually, I will certainly be playing more hours without it to make sure - since it seems to be a one way decision for many.

Lexyvil · 2018-12-10 00:15:14

Personally I find the zoom-out mod to be unfair for players who don't use it, since it's not built in the original game. It's why I don't use it.

But what would be great is a GPS feature higher up in the tech tree that could be some official tool to see far beyond our view.

CrazyEddie · 2018-12-10 00:45:11

I think people pay way too much attention to the problem of griefers. Now and then I've had some difficulties getting things done that might have been due to malice, but could also just be noobishness. I have gotten murdered very rarely, and seen other people murdered on occasion. But mostly I don't really worry about it. I just do my best to make the town better and to improve the in-game lives and out-of-game experiences of everyone around me, and I have a great time doing it.

I play with 2x zoom. It makes the game feel less claustrophobic, less disconnected from other people, less separated from the environment, less isolated. A lot less, with only a modest zoom level.

Texture popping isn't much of an issue for me. It happens sometimes but is not ubiquitous and definitely doesn't ruin my immersion (and immersion is a big deal for me).

I benefit somewhat from the "magical ability" that zooming gives you; I can be considerably more efficient at gathering, whether it's soil or milkweed or iron or even food (feeding yourself when gathering is a major concern!), than someone playing at the native 1x. But I don't feel like I've removed the challenge inherent in gathering... it's still really difficult and really frustrating.

Playing at higher than 2x made the game worse for me, not better. I could see more of my surroundings, but I lost the immersive connection to my avatar, i.e. I got out of touch with myself. But playing at 2x rather than 1x made the game much better for me, not worse. Jason has his reasons for having such a restricted view. I think I understand them, and I agree with them, but I think he missed the sweet spot. I think I have found it.

If you feel like 1x is your sweet spot for immersive and aesthetic reasons, then if I were you I would play that way and give no thought whatsoever to how much more effectively you could do certain tasks if you zoomed out. The game is not about building the perfect civilization in the most efficient manner possible.

The game is about living one life in one hour.

Gnomon · 2018-12-10 01:17:55

CrazyEddie wrote:

I play with 2x zoom. It makes the game feel less claustrophobic, less disconnected from other people, less separated from the environment, less isolated. A lot less, with only a modest zoom level.
[...]
Playing at higher than 2x made the game worse for me, not better. I could see more of my surroundings, but I lost the immersive connection to my avatar, i.e. I got out of touch with myself. But playing at 2x rather than 1x made the game much better for me, not worse.

I do honestly think I would prefer 2x to 1x, as I also agree with the widespread sentiment that the standard FOV is too restrictive. During my very limited lives with the mod, I seem to recall spending a considerable amount of time around camp on that setting.

That said, in order to play at 2x I would need to be using a mod that only included the 2x zoom out. I am under the impression that any such mods no longer exist. Using Awbz' mod only for a specific zoom level is not something I think I could pull off - I'd end up varying the zoom as convenience demanded.

Are you simply using Awbz' mod and keeping it on 2x with the info panel down, or do you use a different mod entirely?

CrazyEddie · 2018-12-10 01:53:34

[ shrug ] I just use Awbz' mod and leave it set at 2x. It doesn't change by itself. I'm not sure I understand the question.

If you're saying you would be tempted to keep altering the zoom level as circumstances warrant, all I can say is I've never felt any desire to do so. I tried different zoom levels, decided I liked 2x the best, set it there, and left it there.

Eclipciz · 2018-12-10 02:28:12

You should use one mostly because it helps you see more things at 2x comfortably, and when you need to see something that is farther just zoom out quickly and zoom back in. The Mods make this nearly (imo) unplayable base game playable.

Lotus · 2018-12-10 03:52:54

Been playing since April without any zoom mod. It’s okay, but I’d like to try it. I agree it is unfair to others who lack the mod, but it would be really useful avoiding predators on iron runs or the like. I just can’t figure out how to download it. You should give it a try.

BlueDiamondAvatar · 2018-12-10 05:18:16

HI,
According to Steam I have 200+ hours in OHOL, and I don't use any mods. What's more, I frequently scout, explore, scavenge, and am better than most at living off the land.

You really don't need the mod. The one time my Eve start town was short on iron, I spent a dramatic 20 minutes scouting for iron, and came back reporting it was really difficult to find. Someone paused a second, clearly checking the mod, and then reported "there's a vein southeast". In comparison to my lengthy experience scouting for it, the mod check was anti-clamatic. But when I passed on this knowledge to the only surviving females (mother and daughter) as I was dying, it seemed well worth the compromise.

But that's the thing... there's usually someone with the mod around, if its a remotely busy town. If its not an established town, well, you have a right to play the game on hard mode, without worrying about how its impacting other peoples survival.

I have killed griefers, and regularly thwart them by cleaning away the obnoxious "bowl of salt water" and other visual duplicates. I think I'm better than most at dealing with the subtle forms of griefing, because I am always looking at the screen in regular zoom. I'm not as good at dealing with griefers with arrows, but usually they want to stay and gloat anyway. That's kinda the payoff for griefing. I have killed bears multiple times, and lead them away from my village without getting eaten.

Even without the mod, I have been the last one alive in an eve village that's been decimated by bugs/snakes/boars/etc.

I guess my point is you can get plenty good at playing this game without the mod, given time and interest.

TheoneKooZ · 2018-12-10 05:40:29

Hey there!

I strongly recommend that you spend as much time as possible playing without the mod until you are frustrated or getting bored. Let me explain further.

What was fun at first was the difficulty of the game at the native fov, the threats of the wild animals, the gathering and the food. It really feels like a survival game and all especially as eve, it is so difficult to set foot in ground and die of age. I spent over 150h with default fov and it was a great time until...

Until you get killed several times by sneaky sneks behind trees, sniping boars that travel max range right onto you WHILE you have a very high tech item for your town like a cart or horse just to lose it full of resources or something... the most frustrating thing ever. I don't mind dying like that when it's fair and all and after so much time at default fov I, dide have mastered the avoiding wild animals tactics but those can still happen. When it's because of the situations mentionned before it's hard to not be tempted by mod... so after quite a few death by that (hard to put a number but let's say 20+) I was facing 2 decisions, quitting for a long time or trying out the mod since I've already seen and master the tech tree.

But again, the base game is still great and challenging but once you hit a point where you wanna quit or feel like you've seen all, the mod can be nice to use. It helps you figure out how/where to build stuff and helps you develop high-tech, spot murderers or griefers like you mentioned, makes it easier to chat or work around and I also think the game looks better at 1.5x.

As for the griefers, a smart one will be annoying and hard to catch with or without mod. With or without the mod, the pvp is pretty much the same, the hardest part of the pvp is usally the lag while chasing someone, it's hard to stab them unless they have the murderer slowdown since they have to stop moving to be stab most of the time. Best way to counter those is usually set up a bunch of meds and have people trainned for it as most grieffers are more focused on killing. Also, finding the things that got broken and fixing those asap is a great skill to master. For example: broken pen, bowls filled with crap, resources depleted without leaving seeds behind, etc... It also discourage them to keep doing it if you keep repairing the pen or other things and you might catch his name and spread the word. A town with a name in the aim is hard to grief and will get them cursed and sent to donkey town (hopefully).

Don't worry too much, I love dealing with grieffers that think they are smart but give them retribution on their first mistake. Have several douzens of dead grieffers on my record that I've sent to rot in hell. Also, I know that there are more good people using the mod than those with bad intentions.

Last edited by TheoneKooZ (2018-12-10 06:40:38)

MultiLife · 2018-12-10 05:57:30

I've been playing since July and last month downloaded the mod. The regular zoom feels claustrophobic and as if the humans in the game are near-sighted.

My reasons for ending up getting the mod:
- rebelling against iron nerf (making iron runs more tedious eh? Then I get zoom out to level it down - waste my time with challenges that are worth my time, running around isn't, for me at least; zoom out reduces running in vain)
- getting Eve camp locations scanned faster so I can settle faster (jungle has really lowered the amount of soil, ponds and iron in this RNG roulette of chances, zoom out makes up for it, at least mostly)
- being able to save time when searching for tools (I rather scan a big screen of stuff than run around with a small screen of stuff)
- griefer thing is so-so; I didn't get it because of them, but it is great to keep an eye on others who think you can't see them. Many use zoom out so I joined in with that, as it would, to me, be silly to be stuck with regular view when I have the choice, a freedom to try. I also think the zoom out makes up for design flaws of the game such as the one tile item clutter issue and the bad side of RNG.

Last edited by MultiLife (2018-12-10 16:18:00)

pein · 2018-12-10 06:09:27

i played a few hundred hours without zoom mod
and i was lazy until awbz mod came, i would just felt weird to play on a different scale
i still can do it, the guy is fast but you might be forced to play 1-2 days on old client, i would be okay with it
i generally use the 1.5 screen, much better, i think it should be default
a decent farm setup can be seen on screen without moving
i could get used to that but having bigger zoom allows faster scavenging, and i live lives just hoarding resources

on pvp its not really an advantage, the different zooms got different lag and different reaction time
finding stuff others hide or seeing conversations which you wouldn't normally see it is a bit

im totally expecting others not using it, or i see the ones who using it cause we walk a bit faster long distance, but this is not entirely because of zoom
people make games which are for the current market standards, and downgrading graphics to get better frames is for the ones who got worse rigs, i think it's a better trade, but if i got to use a zoom mod, i don't think im abusing his game, he made it free to edit and distribute, generally it's the same game and only saves me a few minutes of headache and exploring

you don't have to use it just keep in mind others don't have it and don't be mad about it

lionon · 2018-12-10 06:39:38

Using the mod I usually play zoomed in on default view for the mod, which is 1.5 I guess?

Official client became unbearable for me, for example watching people on stream using it. Recently had a guy, who just lost his way all the time within a small village... A little more view than one and a half human length would have really helped. With the default client you can see as far as one human and a little more is height. Everyone must be really focusing on the ground all the time.

Practical issues without zoom mod:
* Travelling together is really even much worse (on eve level, or follow as a kid because mum carries something valuable back to town after sudden birth)
* Iron scavenging is so much worse.
* Milkweed scavenging is worse.
* Finding an eve spot is so much worse.
* Travelling alone is so much worse (with default client, a boar can jump on you out of view, death deus ex machina)
* It is even more impossible to have an eye on potential griefers(1)

Is it "unfair"? This game is not competitive, so how can it be "unfair" it's not like I'm going to use it to "win" faster.

Does it make the gaming boring? I doubt it and even it would be game difficulty through bad interface would be a horrible game design anyway.

(1): About griefing and watching. Just because you might be oblivious to people who do nothing but deliberately try to hurt your town all their life doesn't mean they are not there. Deliberately in contrast to newbies who are more hurting than helping because they just don't know better. And if they notice you notice, you *will* get murdered more! These are their murder targets, people who know...

Last edited by lionon (2018-12-10 06:41:14)

ClownBaby · 2018-12-10 08:00:57

You are playing the game on very hard mode without the mod. In fact, I am practically unable to do anything but pure town roles if I don't use it. The worst offender for me isn't scavenging for resources, but the random animal deaths. If you have the mod, you will be able to see them take 2-3 steps before you end up within unzoomed distance of them. I can't count the amount of times I have died to boars navigating around dense swamp trees, or having a lag spike and ending up bitten by a snake. I wouldn't mind the difficulty of the resource scavenge too much, it would be worse but not unbearable.

I suggest getting the mod, worst case you can still zoom in all the way when you feel like it. The fertility tracker is a great bonus too, I rarely want to stay in a town with no children to inherit eventually.

lionon · 2018-12-10 08:11:50

ClownBaby wrote:

The fertility tracker is a great bonus too, I rarely want to stay in a town with no children to inherit eventually.

Also the age-meter is a feature I wouldn't ever want to miss again.

Last edited by lionon (2018-12-10 08:12:20)

Dacen · 2018-12-10 10:57:47

ClownBaby wrote:

You are playing the game on very hard mode without the mod. In fact, I am practically unable to do anything but pure town roles if I don't use it. The worst offender for me isn't scavenging for resources, but the random animal deaths. If you have the mod, you will be able to see them take 2-3 steps before you end up within unzoomed distance of them. I can't count the amount of times I have died to boars navigating around dense swamp trees, or having a lag spike and ending up bitten by a snake. I wouldn't mind the difficulty of the resource scavenge too much, it would be worse but not unbearable.
I suggest getting the mod, worst case you can still zoom in all the way when you feel like it. The fertility tracker is a great bonus too, I rarely want to stay in a town with no children to inherit eventually.

I play since april, never used the mod and i have really no problem. Yes sometimes a wolf come frome outscreen and kill me, but it's really really rare. Except that, you are able to do all quiet well. You are not as much effective as someone you use the mod, that's sure, but it's not "very hard mode". I think, without offend, than the pb come more likely from you than from the game. It's just like playing easy mode in a solo game and suddenly set normal or hard mode, you have troubles. When u start a game on hard mod you suck but after some time you get used to it, and if one day you play in normal or easy mode, you are : "wow, is that supposed to be so easy?"

For Gnomon :

- It can be played without mod, really
- You will be less efficient, especially when searching rare ressources or good spot
- I understand why you ask if there is not a x2 only mod, when u have more comfort it's really hard to go back to previous state, it's a reason i never even tried the mod, i would maybe not be able to stop using it or even restricting myself, aafterall when something is given why not using it ...???

BladeWoods · 2018-12-10 11:56:15

I use zoom mod and would stop playing the game were it somehow removed. The default zoom is just way too zoomed in. I enjoy challenge, but the game is far more enjoyable with zoom. And challenge from being super zoomed in is not the right kind of challenge. You don't need to zoom all the way out to see chunks. Just being 1.5x zoomed out, 1080p, is a much better game experience and should really be the default zoom.

I don't mind anyone playing without the zoom mod, and I don't think you should worry about griefers so much. They aren't that common or the end of the world. You can contribute to the fight against griefers simply by cursing them. Curse in your next life if you die too young to spell out the curse.

Just give up on your dreams, and play with zoom. You'll enjoy the game much more. Won't regret.

Last edited by BladeWoods (2018-12-10 11:59:57)

Floofy · 2018-12-10 16:08:14

I have a large 1440p monitor so the default zoom is just torture. I use the zoomed out mode.

Tea · 2018-12-10 19:38:24

I honestly use the Zoom Out Mode too, just to scale it up a bit, like two times. I really don't want to miss it since the default is just too near for me. If the default zoom would be changed a little bit, I'd be willing to stop using the mode but tbh knowing how old one is, is pretty sweet. A lot of players want to know how old they are.

If fathers would be implemented one day, wouldn't it be nice to show mother and father on the right top corner ? I think it's cute to have your mother and father listed in the game. I don't need to know if my last daughter is still alive and fertile or if there are any other females in town. But I'd like to have like a little family tree shown while playing. Mother, Father & Lover maybe ?

Jason, Valentines Day ? Lover ?

lionon · 2018-12-10 21:06:02

Regarding the discussion if it's "easy mode" vs. "normal mode" or "normal mode" vs "hard mode", it doesn't matter how you label it, but yes there is a difference in difficulty for example navigating the wild lands between official client and mod client on default zoom in (x 1.5). But it's not right kind of difficulty, it's difficulty because of an interface... which is not the right one, a game shouldn't be difficult because of it's interface.

Last edited by lionon (2018-12-10 21:06:51)

Dacen · 2018-12-10 22:35:07

I agree a default view of x1,5 woudl be better. Talking about "easy mode" is not to say it's bad or wrong, just to react about the stating than playing without mod would be "very hard mode".
I think Tea proposition is great, little more view and knowing your age in base game would be cool, but no needs for eagle 360° view and knowing the state of your fertile relative in the base game.

pein · 2018-12-10 22:45:29

i had this tricks and i still do it
run diagonally to see more, stop on items
wait until animals move
run near cactus, ponds and rabbit to ''wake them up''
check which direction is a straight biome edge, the next biome will be same direction as the map orientation (generally you are diagonal from center of map so that's why i thought is diagonal ordering but apparently sometimes straight)
run out in a circle around camp then a bigger circle, etc

InSpace · 2018-12-11 09:42:20

I tried the zoom out mod and now I am 3 times more efficient at locating things and die 1/10 as much from wild animals.

One Hour One Life Forums

#1 2018-12-09 23:23:56

On zoom mods, should I use one?

#2 2018-12-09 23:42:10

Re: On zoom mods, should I use one?

#3 2018-12-09 23:50:12

Re: On zoom mods, should I use one?

#4 2018-12-10 00:08:33

Re: On zoom mods, should I use one?

#5 2018-12-10 00:15:14

Re: On zoom mods, should I use one?

#6 2018-12-10 00:45:11

Re: On zoom mods, should I use one?

#7 2018-12-10 01:17:55

Re: On zoom mods, should I use one?

#8 2018-12-10 01:53:34

Re: On zoom mods, should I use one?

#9 2018-12-10 02:28:12

Re: On zoom mods, should I use one?

#10 2018-12-10 03:52:54

Re: On zoom mods, should I use one?

#11 2018-12-10 05:18:16

Re: On zoom mods, should I use one?

#12 2018-12-10 05:40:29

Re: On zoom mods, should I use one?

#13 2018-12-10 05:57:30

Re: On zoom mods, should I use one?

#14 2018-12-10 06:09:27

Re: On zoom mods, should I use one?

#15 2018-12-10 06:39:38

Re: On zoom mods, should I use one?

#16 2018-12-10 08:00:57

Re: On zoom mods, should I use one?

#17 2018-12-10 08:11:50

Re: On zoom mods, should I use one?

#18 2018-12-10 10:57:47

Re: On zoom mods, should I use one?

#19 2018-12-10 11:56:15

Re: On zoom mods, should I use one?

#20 2018-12-10 16:08:14

Re: On zoom mods, should I use one?

#21 2018-12-10 19:38:24

Re: On zoom mods, should I use one?

#22 2018-12-10 21:06:02

Re: On zoom mods, should I use one?

#23 2018-12-10 22:35:07

Re: On zoom mods, should I use one?

#24 2018-12-10 22:45:29

Re: On zoom mods, should I use one?

#25 2018-12-11 09:42:20

Re: On zoom mods, should I use one?

Board footer