Another Suicide/Update Rant!

LostScholar · 2018-10-27 21:33:13

TO WHOM IT MAY CONCERN:

Totally sounded official #nailedit

Joking aside, I have over 400 hours in this game and I have tried 2HOL and hated it because I liked Jasons more vanilla version better.
However, I have always had some minor disagreements like the 2 tile vision so I do use zoom out mods.

This latest update though I feel like he tried to fix a symptom and instead of a problem.
I personally feel like this whole thing should of waited until after the steam release/flux of new players.
That being said, a much better fix in my opinion would be to reduce the birthing cool down on females or remove it completely.

I personally suicide when I'm a boy just because I feel like I can get the same amount of work done as a female and help have kids to increase the towns population.
Also, I like to start eve camps because they are more challenging.

Creating death grip on babies was a terrible idea, it doesn't stop suicides it only delays it and causes you to waste resources. We just proved this on stream earlier when we tried to spawn as eves or girls in a eve camp. it took about 20 minutes, wasted our time and the time and resources of the people we spawned to in the meantime.

No death on disconnect, was a good idea because when the game has a wild bug and crashes and you lose your old age eve spawn and have to do another hour as eve to get it back it fucking sucks!
However, I'm pretty sure the motivation behind this change was the instant death via DC's and not for the right reasons.

I haven't played with the other stuff in the update yet but most of the item changes/additions sound fine to me and I feel like this is what Jason should be focusing his time on since steam is coming and his trailer boasts future tech and progression through tech trees even though we have been stuck in the same tech for 8+ months with minor additions and quality of life upgrades.

I'm not a programmer in the slightest but just my two cents on how I would of handled what most people are calling a still birth problem, would be the following!

Reduce the birthing timer on females to 0 or 30-90s. now its random between 0-5 min I believe.
Remove the death grip, terrible idea
Allow re spawn on disconnect if over specific age, ie 14?
Allow death on disconnect if under specific age, and also don't spawn skeletons for deaths that occur under a certain age ie, 3 (since that is when your independent)

This would allow people to play like they want to play as a boy/girl/eve, not cause grief via skeletons laying all over town for instant suicides, and stop people from complaining that their babies suicide, because of birth cool-downs.

Final notes to Jason... This game and concept for a game is a great idea but your fighting against it. This feels like its supposed to be a civ creator, time/resource management sandbox game. But most of your code stops us from spawning in towns, or punishes us for trying to build big projects (I used to build massive roads and helped connect the four cities from last month but have stopped since because server sector wipes and losing towns every time the servers updated)

If this is the new meta for this game, I will become a griefer because this update has sucked all the joy out of the game since I now spend most of my time running away from angry parents.

MultiLife · 2018-10-27 21:55:52

+1 for your ideas! I like them all. Birth cooldown shouldn't occur if your kid died under 1 year old, maybe? Like it would instantly go away or something. Then it could be 1+ min long or more.

Also thank you for the road building, I had a fun life in the "project city" as a wandering man, ringing bells, fighting bears and collecting shrooms.

-1 for griefer threat! D:

Last edited by MultiLife (2018-10-27 21:58:34)

LostScholar · 2018-10-27 21:59:56

MultiLife wrote:

-1 for griefer threat! D:

Didn't really mean it as a threat because I would probably quit the game first but, I see now how it came across as one!
Just wanted to solidify the point that this update has sucked the fun out of the game for me.

Last edited by LostScholar (2018-10-27 22:05:17)

gabal · 2018-10-27 22:17:21

So you like Eve runs because of challenge but you want to be spawned in a city because you like to work on a project?

My experience from tonight was that people asked babies do they want to stay and offered stabbing so they can get a lineage ban and get the spawn they are looking for.

jasonrohrer · 2018-10-28 05:28:53

LostScholar, you make many good points, which I addressed in a different thread.

But I really don't know what to say about the "lack of tech" over the past 8 months.

The game launched with version 59 back in February.

We are now on version 157.

Back in February, there were 503 objects and 644 sprites.

There are now 1638 objects in the game, and 1452 sprites.

So that's 1135 new objects, and 808 new sprites.

Each sprite was hand-drawn by me, on paper. 800 drawings.

In other words, more objects were added in 8 months than most games have in total.

Sometimes I really feel like putting you all in a time machine so you can go back and play v59.

Only rabbit cooking, only carrot farming, only sheep domestication, no dye, no stone walls, no mining, no locks, no gold, no crowns, no bell tower, no roads, no rails, no bison, no boars, no desert, no arctic, no bears, no snakes, no dogs, no graves, no signs, no writing, no horses.

No baby names, no family names, no family tree browsing, no emotes, no twinning with friends, no wounds, no healing, no cursing, no donkey town, no bloody graves, no murderer slow-down. Only 8 characters.

No tutorial. No /hatchet crafting hint filters.

Check out this screen shot:

https://steamcdn-a.akamaihd.net/steam/a … 1540565968

Pretty much everything depicted there was NOT in the game 8 months ago.

So if you call this a "stuck" game over the past 8 months, which game progressed more during a similar time frame?

Jk Howling · 2018-10-28 08:21:57

jasonrohrer wrote:

But I really don't know what to say about the "lack of tech" over the past 8 months.

I think what he means, and what a lot of veteran players are feeling a lack of, is truly progressive tech. Game-changers. Something new that extends the tech tree, rather than simply "aesthetic fluff" as some might put it. Something that we have good reason to work towards attaining, and takes us time to get to.

I'll admit I've been a bit impatient too, waiting for a 'substantial' update- an addition that improves and builds upon the meta. Something that's worth the time and effort to attain.

Rails had potential, but fell through- the cost isn't worth the outcome, when we can do everything a minecart can, but much faster, more efficiently, and with less materials. Why waste a bunch of iron on a rail when I can make a cart?

Dogs also had potential, but again fell short. Their existence does nothing for us, so why get them? They don't improve my quality of life. The best they do is follow me around and die. Why do I need a pet in a survival-based game?

Paint is cool and all, but again, what does that really do for us? How does that progress the tech tree? Especially given it takes an entire bucket to paint one wall- and two of the three colors are rare, impossible to make decent quantities of, and none of them are renewable. I'm not gonna take the time to look for the rarely-spawned chunk of material if it's only going to give me enough for a single wall, am I?

I think, long story short, that some of the community is just impatient for something substantial. A big update that gives us something new to achieve, a new goal to reach, a different meta. Right now the meta is stagnant. To some, it doesn't feel like we're progressing in technology.

I'm sure you have updates planned and we'll receive some game changers [food rot and refrigeration will be a big one, I imagine!] and I understand that the game is a steady jog to the end goal, not a sprint. I like the idea that, little by little, all of this will add up in the end to an advanced stage that took many generations to achieve. After all, Rome wasn't built in a day! But as an active player, sometimes these small steps don't feel like we're going anywhere.

Potjeh · 2018-10-28 09:35:30

Yeah, all the stuff added after compost just extends the girth of the trunk, it doesn't actually make the tech tree any taller. Don't get me wrong, you definitely need some lateral expansion like this, but going up is also important. Like, when you're Eve you're under pressure to get into pottery tech before wild food runs out, then you're under pressure to get into steel tech before the ponds run out, and finally you have to get sheep tech before soil pits run out. But once you've reached sheep you've achieved a stable state and there's no real need for any new stuff. Sure, milk or mangos are nice, but you can survive just fine without them. It's just luxuries, not essentials. And all that's left to do now if you want to be a productive member of society is farming and cooking. Other stuff that might be fun to do for a change of pace is simply utterly useless, like building for example (worse than useless actually because you're taking away tiles for no benefit whatsoever).

Tarr · 2018-10-28 13:54:11

jasonrohrer wrote:

But I really don't know what to say about the "lack of tech" over the past 8 months.

No one is saying you haven't made changes to the game or added new things to the game over the past 8 months. It's just we've not had many forward moving updates. Obviously you can't just move us up along the tech tree each week endlessly or we'd already be driving around in cars and having robots kill our babies.

I'm sure we have some other strict upgrades but I'm just going to list a few that I remember notably

Wooden floors > Flat stone roads: This is a great update that is an actual move up the tech tree. Being able to move faster on foot while making a path to resources/different towns is great.

Cart > Horse Cart: Obviously this had to be changed so the horse would stand still but being able to quickly gather things helps when out foraging in the field.

Adobe wall > Plastered wall: Buildings are pretty much useless as is but this is an actual upgrade which allows adobe buildings to be usable.

Instant death > Medicine: I'll count this as an upgrade since before slow deaths we had instant deaths which pretty much sucked. Medicine is a great upgrade from not having it.

Most updates just seem to be sidegrades - Food updates, rails, paper or you end up with downgrades- dogs, pigs, worms.

I don't know about others but I'd rather be in a river deep lake than a puddle deep ocean.

jasonrohrer · 2018-10-28 17:02:10

Well, perhaps unfortunately, the rest of the tech tree is mostly aesthetic.

You can only get so warm or so well-fed before you're set in those regards. It's not like synthetic polar fleece is really all that superior to wool. In fact, some modern mountain climbers still use wool.

The only way I can make higher food tech necessary is by nerfing existing food. For example, by introducing refrigeration/canning and spoilage in the same update (which I might do). But there's very little upward movement possible there, either.

Then for the other stuff.... cars are essentially horse carts that require oil to run. I can make them a bit faster, but too much faster and they become impractical to control.

And radios or other electronic tech---they're mostly just for fun. In other words, aesthetic.

When I started designing this game years ago, I broke human achievement down into three broad categories:

1. You can eat it.

2. It protects you from the environment.

3. It's entertaining.

1. Includes all foodstuffs, all food production, processing, and storage.

2. Includes clothes, buildings, weapons, and medicine.

3. Includes everything else. Dye, paint, rugs, lingerie, FPV drones, and iPhones.

Pretty much everything we as humans have been up to for the past 200 years is category 3. We've got food and shelter figured out. Now what? We're bored, essentially. So we build railroads and sky scrapers and airplanes and go to space and have 500 movies on-demand 24-7.

Some of this stuff is actually part of a hidden sub-category in (3), which is "attracting a mate." That actually might be the entire reason category 3 exists in real life. Movies aren't made because people need entertainment. They are made because it helps the people who make them attract a mate. Same with sky scrapers, great novels, and inventions, etc. Increase your social capital by doing great and amazing things.

Now, given that I'm not representing mating in this game at all, for many good reasons, (3) become a much more vague and pointless category "entertainment."

I feel like there's currently not enough pressure at the top. All the food tech should be necessary, because you should need the YUM bonus, because your food production resources should be running out, and food tech should be the only way to prolong it. You should be rushing burritos and stew and kraut and omelets.

That is currently happening, as iron runs out for tilling and fertile soil production, but it's happening on a glacial scale.

Also, Mango trees are an infinite food leak, which will be fixed pronto.

And I can push the tech tree up (fertilizer, green revolution---while also making natural fertile soil run out faster). But only so much, before I run out of ways to modernize food production and thus give you something that you really need to rush.

I only imagine two or three "major" changes to food production over the next two years. Artificial fertilizer. Food preservation/spoilage. More foods.

Also, before you all shout, "Automation," I really don't think this is a game about building robot farmers.

Tarr · 2018-10-28 17:27:58

Have you ever thought of removing the invisible +2 all the food is granted? At this point we've got so many different foods at this point that yum should make up for our invisible bonus at this point. I feel like food has needed rebalanced for a while now in one way or another.

I don't think we're currently ready for the idea of food decay until we reach a bit higher tech but I do feel like we've been ready to be weened off our food bonus for awhile now. I've been hoping you'd do something to shake up the food meta as raising even more players on berry bushes would absolutely crush any big civilization in only a matter of generations.

Maybe have a higher push towards foods that take more steps? A bean taco takes way more effort to make than something like a piece of cooked mutton but both have the same exact food value.

Also, have you thought about lowering the amount of soil you get from one compost pile? Maybe move the number down from eight to six which gives you exactly enough soil for 9 new deep tilled rows or refreshing 18 old patches of dirt.

Food has been way too easy for way too long but I also don't want to go into such an extreme that accidentally eating the seed row carrot kills everyone. Having too much food makes end game incredibly boring (just drinking milk or eating mangos) while making food too tedious sees it not used at all (both taco variants).

Last edited by Tarr (2018-10-28 17:44:12)

Potjeh · 2018-10-28 17:51:42

Mango is a minor leak, the main one is compost. Compost is practically infinite if you have a mimimum of skill at the game. I think you should look into plugging this leak. For example, let's say the current compost recipe is a bit phosphorus deficient. So instead of watering the dry pile with plain water, you had to water it with diluted guano. Guano could be a rare spawn in desert, where you can collect one basket per spot. You can split it into three bowls of guano and add a bowl of guano to a bowl of water to make the diluted stuff, or to make bucket tech even more rewarding you could dump a basket of guano into a bucket of water and get ten units of guano water. When the desert guano runs out you could kill a bear and mine a couple of baskets worth of guano from it's empty cave. That should last long enough to get to some synthetic fertilizer to replace compost or just the guano, and that fertilizer could depend on another depletable resource.

As for buildings, protection from elements just doesn't work with the gameplay, you have to be out and about and occasional bad weather that stopped you from going out would just feel like theft of our limited time. So buildings need some other purpose. I think the best fit is making them required for construction of advanced infrastructure. This advanced infrastructure can serve to either stretch your limited resources, or to increase your work efficiency which is needed to stay afloat as the required crafting chains become longer with tech tier. Examples of resource saving could be a stove which burns longer than an open fire, a large smelter that you load with ten ore but receive twelve iron (poured into pig iron molds rather than beaten from bloom), or a brick oven that retains heat a lot longer. Efficiency boosting could mostly be about improved space usage to cut down on walking and accommodate all the ingredients needed for the longer crafting chains. Stuff like shelves that store 3x3 items with direct access, or tables with 2x2 slots for plates or bowls where you can do all the interactions with the pottery as if it was on the ground (can the engine do this?).

LostScholar · 2018-10-28 17:52:07

Jason, I apologize if it came across as my accusing you of doing nothing, that is not what I meant at all.

I have enjoyed most of the weekly updates especially the ones that have quality of life changes like the Tree Planting, or Manipulating Stacked Iron, or getting rid of those atrocious trash pit pens.

My biggest complaint on the game in whole is the lack of progressive tech (ie, tree planting or whatever is supposed to come after iron/steel) or even without that at least allow us to design bigger projects without having to start from scratch every 2-3 days. I think a lot of players enjoyed their lives when we managed to connect 4 cities with roads over 2000 tiles long, but as soon as the servers went down for a update it was all lost.

That being said... I 100% agree with you that there needs to be more pressure at the top. The only issue with this is Eve camps having a lack of unique foods for yum bonus.
If you can give Eves a few more Unique foods to make the Yum Bonus mandatory and get people off the fucking berry kick I would be ecstatic.

Right now the biggest issues I see in town is. To much Meat To many Piles of wheat and to many berries.
I think adding a decomposition timer on raw meat would be a great idea or as you mentioned preservation, maybe make smokehouses or a way to make smoke houses using walls + fire + pine needles to fill the room with smoke.

Personally I would prefer meat just disappearing or rotting as it is more realistic and makes the game harder (which it should be)
The only "hard" part about the game right now is trying to setup a Eve camp which is much harder to do with death grip as I mentioned above.

Potjeh · 2018-10-28 18:03:54

Also, water could be looked into as pressure for efficiency. The problem is the highly randomized number of ponds, so it's kinda hard to balance production per pond. What if ponds were a lot fewer, but more reliable? Something like one guaranteed pond for each 100x100 tiles map section that is at least 50% swamp tiles, but no more than one pond per such section. A lot bigger capacity of course, and the same goes for wells. It looks kinda silly to multiple wells right next to each other anyway. You could up well cost if fewer wells were needed I guess. And to compensate early camps for having fewer eggs swamps could spawn frogs that you can catch and cook.

Anyway, I don't think the basic food mechanics are faulty, it's just that the current berry meta makes it too easy. If spamming berries depleted water too fast we'd have to be more efficient, and the yum bonus will naturally become more important as it extends the food supply a lot.

Tarr · 2018-10-28 18:26:39

If the goal is to get people to actually use yum maybe add in yuck. After eating the same thing some number of times (lets say three here) without yum chaining you get yuck where you will not eat an item unless you either start a yum chain and end it to refresh the food from yuck to yum. Maybe only allow yuck to be eaten when it is a life or death situation (three to five bars from death) that way you don't get the classic "food in hand" starvation death.

As is there's almost no reason to yum chain when a single bucket of milk beats out the multiplier until it reaches the teens which is all sorts of goofy. My choices are either go around town and actually look for something to eat or sit around and chomp berries or sip milk without an sort of consequence for having a dairy only diet.

tana · 2018-10-28 18:27:25

i love the idea of raw meat decay, it never made sense to me that you can have raw pork just lying around.
Also i agree that the overall food has to be reevaluated, how can a simple omelette that only requiers stone age technology give more food than any other food available on steel tool tech.

I might sound crazy, but i kinda miss the old berries mechanics that needed 1 hour to replenish, now that we have so many other options, we really need to break the berry field meta where a whole city can practically survive on a berry field, with just the mutton pies as by-product of the compost (and lets be honest, very often they are only halfway made, the raw materials just lying there since most ppl will survive on berries).

Berries should be nerfed in terms of food value, when you think about it, if you're starving, eating a single berry won't really help you, but eating a full bush probably will allow you to survive a little more to find other food. That way, they will still be valuable as a source of compost, but will only be good for babies and elderly, and only emergency for adult, if they eat the full bush.

It will be harder on eve camps, adding challenge to veteran players, pushing us to develop some farming or egg gathering as quick as possible. And on that question, i'm really for adding an eve spawning ability, think of it as an adjustable dificulty setting, most games have them now, and make it available for players that have a certain amount of time played, like it will be unlocked at 50h or 100h of gameplay. Most of veterans are suiciding to get spawned as eve anyway.

Potjeh · 2018-10-28 18:33:10

IDK, berries are barely enough in Eve camp. I think the food value per berry is fine, they just need to be less spammable.

jasonrohrer · 2018-10-28 18:37:48

Well, the food bonus can be tweaked, sure.

But that puts way more pressure on the bottom. It's still pretty challenging to survive as Eve, especially when you can't find a really good spot. Wild food runs out quick. The food bonus really helps with that.

Now, I could make wild gooseberries more nutritious than domestic, to make up for this.

But even early-tier farming is pretty hard to survive on.

Composting used to require worms, and everyone freaked out.

There are two conflicting player emotions here:

1. Steady state is boring.

2. What's the point of playing/building stuff if nothing is sustainable and everything we do is doomed?

I think I need to boil the frog a bit here, and slowly ratchet down the productivity of composting and deep wells, probably over several weeks.

I've always meant to do that, but I got caught up in other, more pressing matters.

Tarr · 2018-10-28 18:38:34

But you have plenty of actual food options in an Eve camp. You have carrots/popcorn/corn/stew/pies/berries/omelets/natural foods.

You have plenty of options to avoiding only eating berries your whole time in an Eve camp they just require you to actually make other foods instead of just spamming berries. Obviously something like this hurts newer players being Eve but you can always just rotate between carrot/berry if they have zero idea how to make any of the more advanced food options.

Last edited by Tarr (2018-10-28 18:39:53)

Dodge · 2018-10-28 19:03:35

I think what he means by tech stuff is things to keep veteran players occupied that are challenging to make (multiple generations and rare ressources for example) and that bring a significant change in game mechanic that it makes it interesting

Dodge · 2018-10-28 19:32:30

"There are two conflicting player emotions here:

1. Steady state is boring.

2. What's the point of playing/building stuff if nothing is sustainable and everything we do is doomed?"

What if it would be easier to connect towns ( closer spawns and faster way to make roads) but the more advanced the town is, the more dangerous it gets, and what if every major advancement in the techtree that is essential for a survival of a village (or bigger village) would also at the same time bring new dangers and challenges with it

For example it's nearly impossible to have a village or big city without sheeps because they produce dungs for compost but what if rotten meat would bring diseases or any other danger (like wild animals) that makes it more challenging for advanced villages to survive, this way eve runs wouldnt be affected by this difficulty as they are challenging on their own

And connecting cities would be easier if they are closer and roads faster to make but the bigger the cities get the more dangerous they become at the same time, so losing a big city or even a group of connected cities would be due to a mistake of the player dealing with the challenging situation and not just because of the built in system

This way it wouldnt be a boring steady state and at the same time everything we make isnt necessarly doomed but it would depend on the capacity of players to deal with the dangers and challenges of bigger cities

Last edited by Dodge (2018-10-28 19:40:19)

Booklat1 · 2018-10-29 00:09:11

Jason, my opinions on this matter:

I think you are very much right in that tech needs to have a purpose in the game, otherwise we don't bother to develop it. I has to be organical and you've done that a hell of a lot of times already (Tarr mentioned good examples).

I just think there's a few things that should be pushed more for tech upgrades to have this feel.
Needing more types of resources to keep cities going and making up supply chains for stuff other than directly food helps, and fertilizers, refrigeration do help with that. But I also think a greater push for world exploration and city expansion should be an absolute must for the game to feel entertaining long-term. Later that could be done by more biomes I think, which would be mostly aesthetic, but now adding those rare resources, specially those that are hard to extract from off-town localities is one of the best challenges you can add to the game I think. If these rare resources are needed into already existing suppy chains that is even better.

Maybe this way there is even that famed push for city communication, and trade.

Jk Howling · 2018-10-29 00:59:35

Dodge wrote:

For example it's nearly impossible to have a village or big city without sheeps because they produce dungs for compost but what if rotten meat would bring diseases or any other danger (like wild animals) that makes it more challenging for advanced villages to survive, this way eve runs wouldnt be affected by this difficulty as they are challenging on their own

He's already explained ages ago that he doesn't want interconnected towns. I do really like the idea of our accomplishments also bringing further challenges, however.

For example, livestock attracts predators- we all know the classic wolf and sheep problem. It'd be really interesting if sheep attracted wolves towards the town, perhaps after they've been kept for x amount of time. Maybe it can slip/break through fences and carry off lambs or something. We'd have to kill the wolf and repair the fence.

I also like the concept of disease. If food rot is ever introduced, perhaps if you don't dispose of it for a certain amount of time, the nearest players to it in a certain radius can contract illness of some sort. Maybe they can't keep food down [hunger bar reduced perhaps?] and grow a bit slower- and perhaps females can't breast feed or are infertile for the duration of it. Those affected can recover by resting near a fire for a certain amount of time [5 mins?] or applying medicine [instant]. If they go too long without resting or receiving medication, maybe they even die!

Another thing I really like is Tarr's idea of the 'yuck' factor. Right now the yum bonus is basically irrelevant. It's one of those "that's cool but I dont need this" concepts. The only time I ever use it personally is when traveling as an eve for a spot to settle. In ever other scenario I play in, I've never had to use it, and I've almost never seen anyone else bother with it. Keep in mind in a majority of the lives I live, I almost never starve unless suiciding or abandoned as a baby, even in early eve runs.

Having a yuck factor would balance that out. I can't just survive off berries anymore, I have to cycle through some foods. I'd say having it apply at 4 consecutive meals of the same food would work. 4 is a good number. As an adult, 4 berries would probs get me to full. I can finish a single pie or two bowls of stew or sauerkraut.

kubassa · 2018-10-29 02:40:57

jasonrohrer wrote:

The game launched with version 59 back in February.
We are now on version 157.
Back in February, there were 503 objects and 644 sprites.
There are now 1638 objects in the game, and 1452 sprites.
So that's 1135 new objects, and 808 new sprites.
Sometimes I really feel like putting you all in a time machine so you can go back and play v59.

This game was fun when it launched................. Even with 503 objects and 64 sprites. Adding more stuff didn't seem to add anything to this game.
-500 objects 100+ people playing all the time.
-1600 objects.... lucky to have an average of 30........

I wish you would Make a legacy server. Revert back to the day the game was fun. I would play the game again and so would many others. Almost seems all the work you have put into the game has made people leave and quit. Months ago I suggested you make a legacy server and I would wager that server would be back to having over 100 people playing the game on it. Call it a hard core server.

The game was fun for the 2 days there was an apocalypse......

The game was fun having clothes.......

The game was fun being able to spawn and move away to build your own castle...... and return to continue to build it.

The game was fun when you could ride a horse and find 5 different villages.......

The game was fun when you could play with your friends.......

The game was fun when you could reach the bell tower............

As the game is now I would never have even bought it, or have had any interest in it at all. I still believe you killed this game with your "rags to riches" update and it has only gone down hill from there. Adding more food recipes is not what is going to make this game more fun to play. Oh wow a "YUM" bonus.... So fun. You actually had a game that was starting to trend and instead of embracing how your customers were playing it you decided to go some other direction that crushed and stifled it, and listening to the few forum cry babies asking you to nerf everything into the ground. It is kind of sad because it was once an enjoyable game with lots of laughs to be had.

You might as well add a camel and all the stuff 2hol did. You pretty much done the exact same garbage as they did with your own foods and animals. You said you would do that because it wasn't what you wanted yet you end up doing the same thing.............

All the lineage banning and punishing players for no reason was a silly thing to do and only separates the people playing and populating the game which is always a bad idea in any game. It has killed triple A games doing so in and an indie game it doesn't stand a chance. Hope you have some luck when the game releases on steam, another thing you said you wouldn't do, because as it sits now this game has died a horrible death.............

Send out Emails when you make a legacy server, where the game was on launch, my kids and I will come play again and LOL all night like we used to.

Last edited by kubassa (2018-10-29 02:44:56)

Dodge · 2018-10-29 06:17:04

Jk Howling wrote:

He's already explained ages ago that he doesn't want interconnected towns.

I wasnt aware of that, why are there bell towers in the game if we cant connect cities?

I get the concept of nothing lasts because "Steady state is boring" and if you are in a village that has everything then there is nothing to do, no challenges

But is making cities far apart and starting over again all the time the best solution?

What if living in big cities is so challenging that you end up moving in another place on your own free will and not because of the game mechanic that forces you to start over again all the time

Jk Howling wrote:

For example, livestock attracts predators- we all know the classic wolf and sheep problem. It'd be really interesting if sheep attracted wolves towards the town, perhaps after they've been kept for x amount of time. Maybe it can slip/break through fences and carry off lambs or something. We'd have to kill the wolf and repair the fence.
I also like the concept of disease. If food rot is ever introduced, perhaps if you don't dispose of it for a certain amount of time, the nearest players to it in a certain radius can contract illness of some sort. Maybe they can't keep food down [hunger bar reduced perhaps?] and grow a bit slower- and perhaps females can't breast feed or are infertile for the duration of it. Those affected can recover by resting near a fire for a certain amount of time [5 mins?] or applying medicine [instant]. If they go too long without resting or receiving medication, maybe they even die!

Yes exactly that kind of challenges, we would need something to protect us from wolves and diseases so we climb the techtree which would bring new dangers and difficulties

We would cycle trough periods of challenging survival where you have to do the right decisions and actions or the village can die and periods of thriving where we can do other entertaining stuff and advance to the next tech in the techtree that is necessary to the survival of the village and that brings more challenges

We already have that at the moment with the first part of the game but after sheep there is no more challenges and the reason a village dies is because we spawn too far apart and villlage gets lost and not because of mistakes made by the players

Nerfing food is one challenge that is probably neccessary but it only brings us to do more of the same (compost, farming etc) and it doesnt really add something new, unless the advancement for that food production is what brings new challenges

Imo starting all over again should be a punishment for not dealing with the situation appropriatly, a village or city becomes inhabitable because the players werent able to deal with the situation and starting over is the best option

And if there is too many villages connected for too much time and we always spawn in the same places then next apocalypse

pein · 2018-10-29 07:51:10

well i agree, no high tech a while

also im still not over that you made everything easy to destroy in less steps than its made, you got it right with fences and bushes, but not with graves, boxes, roses and paint, should require more steps to remove
also a doormat which is attached to doors would increase number of tiles to be blocked to 5 which would be better fix than all this
also destroying the lid of box only and drag away the box

people want permanent things to last, that's why we build them, im ok with griefers as long as they spend more time destroying than me making stuff

water: next step could be piping water or half automated watering, cisterns should be shallow well level, that would allow better designs
soil: not much here, maybe just half automated soil dispensing and tilling
animals: killing cow and processing its meat would be nice, more recipes for pig meat

football: everyone loved my penguin hockey idea, but it wont work cause its too random
i could imagine a ball which could be carried by tongs, or kicked while clicking it, rebounding off walls, clicking from a direction would send it other direction with a randomization of +1 tile in 5 direction, maybe long clicking would add more force
we would build football pitches with a keep, nets, two teams wearing painted wool clothes

as for making composting harder: that's not a fix, nobody making composting, not because they cant, because they don't want
nobody gathers firewood either
while all this jobs could and should be the job of younger/newer people to learn and do, they don't really have an incentive
i feel like making stuff harder, you overkill the top 100 players, i got a mindset of archieving stable state in a city: get tools, get sheep, get compost, now that's a stable state. then i want some fun, i want to build stuff and arrange stuff easily
we need more building material, clay mine, wooden boards for walls, make hoursing required for things or just good to have.
central heating: inside a house, temperature would be on medium always if you keep heating it

better storage and carriage: larger carts to move more items, sheep meat still a problem, clutter is still a problem, better hightech rope production and better ways of storage would make life better, is so hard to arrange a city, i feel like babysitting new players instead of leading them
im not able to designate free tiles or store food on a table than people will mess up the whole city with it

i enjoy bear attacks, it's the only thing shakes up people to work together or a griefer, i think disasters could improve the gameplay

compost and iron is fine, maybe smaller batches would be better, more iron veins but less iron per mine
esier composting but less soil per compost (generally just allow us to use bowl on bushes again) than i don't mind if it only makes 4 soil, maybe lock a tile somehow for seeding

i enjoy when cities are close by but its not so enjoyable if i wasn't there first time
i wouldenjoy having neighboring eves and some form of territory control
wool backpacks, more paint options for clothes, leather clothes would be nice, would add to the game a lot, allowing teams and some roleplay
barrels cages, big chests, stuff like that would allow arranging a city better
maybe some form of communication to allow us leading new players and setting up fun stuff

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