Re: improved lineage ban; bring back bad mother code?

aowen · 2018-06-19 01:12:11

This commit: https://github.com/jasonrohrer/OneLife/ … 279a15028b

I'm worried that players will be born to the same bad mother several times, the mother who keeps abandoning them over and over.

jasonrohrer · 2018-06-19 01:16:11

Good point... hmm...

jasonrohrer · 2018-06-19 01:16:58

Looks like the bad mother limit was removed long ago, before the lineage ban, because of birth cooldowns.

Uncle Gus · 2018-06-19 01:19:22

I'm curious about this change, Jason. I thought the main intent of the lineage lockout was to reduce baby abandonment/suicide. This change brings that back to the table.

jasonrohrer · 2018-06-19 01:47:35

Yeah, I guess you're right, to some degree.

But baby suicide to get to the big village has always been possible. You know, if you're playing today for the first time, and want to play in the big village for your hour, you can easily suicide until you get there. That creates a bad experience for all those other mothers.

Now with the old ban, if you died young in that big village, or your mother abandoned you, you were screwed. Not only were you banned from the big village for 3 hours, but also from the smaller villages that you suicided in along the way to the big village.

The new ban allows the same thing to get to the big village in the first place, except now you can suicide back through the small villages again, and get another chance at the big village, and not get banned in any of them along the way... you're right that this is not ideal!

I am worried about the effect that this ban has on new players, who quickly get shuffled down the Eve chute due to accidental death, not suicide...

Christoffer · 2018-06-19 04:13:17

Baby abandoning is a bad thing. One other possible way to curb it is to introduce a max number of babies per mother, or alternatively make the probability curve for having a baby decline with the number of babies you have already had (same effect, but not as deterministic)

Have to make babies more valuable/scarce, I think. This affects the game difficulty for the mother too. Getting too many babies in rapid succession is problematic for most players.

Last edited by Christoffer (2018-06-19 04:14:17)

Anshin · 2018-06-19 04:35:43

Abandonment is bad but baby suicide is just as big a problem, if not bigger because you have no control over your daughters running away.

With so many baby deaths (neglect, suicide, cluelessness) punishing adults with lowered fertility is a death sentence for everyone.

Technically a mother who abandons is trying to enact some sort of family planning, what we need is the ability to prevent unwanted births (like the super annoying baby born before you even load in as an Eve) and some sort of fertility treatment for when you really want a baby.

I had a long ago suggestion of a fig leaf chastity belt that decays after a few minutes. Eves should be born with one, so that there is some time to at least scout a location before the babies start coming. It should be removable if she wants babies earlier. and replaceable if she wants to wait longer. Similarly a fig fruit could make her super fertile.

Last edited by Anshin (2018-06-19 04:39:54)

Christoffer · 2018-06-19 05:03:57

Anshin wrote:

Abandonment is bad but baby suicide is just as big a problem, if not bigger because you have no control over your daughters running away.

This part of your post is, at the moment, quite untrue. When a baby suicides, there’s more where that came from. It has almost zero implication for the two players involved (mother and baby). The mother can play on as if the birth never happened.

Baby abandonment, on the other hand, has a big impact on the baby player. It’s like a denial of service attack from the mother player. For new players, it has the potential of turning them away.

I agree with the rest of your post. Your idea with fertility planning is likely a better approach to solve the problem. That said, lazy or unknowing players might still cause a lot of baby abandonment, so it would be best to also make new players and ‘bad mothers’ have less babies.

forestglade · 2018-06-19 05:49:05

Female babies suiciding is a huge deal to Eves, or to mothers in tiny towns.

I've been in several towns where civilization died off because of the lack of young girls.

ryanb · 2018-06-19 07:45:07

If breast feeding acted as a natural form of birth control then you could reduced birth countdown which would also reduce the impact of baby-suicides.

This might reduce baby abandonment due to fewer "too many kids" cases.

However it might increase baby boy abandonment if they are wanting a girl because they don't want to increase birth cooldown with a boy. A possible solution for that is to always birth a daughter if one is not currently alive. Feels a bit forced though.

pein · 2018-06-19 08:17:01

you should differentiate abandon and suicide

TrustyWay · 2018-06-19 10:38:35

Just worried about killers that will only spawn in town to keep killing, as we have seen, some players like xx90xnx just play for the kill.

Maybe the lineage ban start when you kill 2 guys or if you failed raising most of children to 8 y/o correctly.

sc0rp · 2018-06-19 10:55:13

TrustyWay wrote:

Just worried about killers that will only spawn in town to keep killing, as we have seen, some players like xx90xnx just play for the kill.
Maybe the lineage ban start when you kill 2 guys or if you failed raising most of children to 8 y/o correctly.

I'm kinda +1 for lineage ban somehow influenced by not caring about children. Maybe only if you are way below average of other players in the town at that time (to not penalize people during famine). Most of the griefers I've seen don't care about children at all (looking later at the lineage). They may start putting them in nursery instead, but that could be better for the town anyway. But what about males? If kids had fathers, that could be accounted for...

And new players should have some grace period.

Last edited by sc0rp (2018-06-19 11:53:16)

Mr.XIX · 2018-06-19 13:04:08

jasonrohrer wrote:

Improved lineage ban so that it only applies if you have lived a total of one hour in a given family line, or if you have lived a single life longer than 30 minutes in that family line, or if you died from murder.

This could result in elderly people asking other to stab them in order to return to the village.

We all know people are willing to suicide a lot to respawn in the same village.

[small] I'm reading this right, right? [/small]

sc0rp · 2018-06-19 13:06:46

Mr.XIX wrote:

[small] I'm reading this right, right? [/small]

Nope. Lineage ban after getting murdered.

jasonrohrer · 2018-06-19 15:10:31

Yeah, I realized that there are too many side-effects here, so I'm rolling back this change. The old lineage ban will still apply in all cases, just like it used to. If you let a baby die, they aren't coming back to your village for 3+ hours.

HOWEVER, to help brand new players out, the lineage ban will only kick in once a player has lived a total of 2 hours in the game. So their first two hours of living (and dying) will be lineage-ban-free.

These time-counters will reset every time the servers reset (once a week, after children-of-men), so the first two hours of a new server are kind of a wild west period with no lineage bans.

This will also help players who are getting back into the game after a time away from it (who haven't played since the last server reset).

This will allow griefers to return to a village within their first two hours of living. However, given that they have to grow up a bit to grief, this effect will be somewhat limited, because they will be chewing up their time clock every time they grow up.

(As for why these time counters don't last across server resets, I'm trying to keep the implementation quick and simple.... also, I'm not implementing inter-server communication for this feature anyway, so the servers will all be keeping separate records).

Anshin · 2018-06-19 15:25:04

Regarding baby suicide. I just finished a game in a large town where I had SIX daughters, five suicided and the last one died before puberty.

http://lineage.onehouronelife.com/serve … &id=362990

I can't make sense of the suicides. Some happened while I was out foraging. I say "big town" as soon as they appear and I drop everything and try and run them back immediately, but they drop out of my arms and run off to die anyway. I had one quit in my arms. Some suicided right in the middle of the town, I have no idea what would have made them happy.

How do you calculate "bad mother"?

Anshin · 2018-06-19 15:27:05

^^ I was typing that just as you posted your reply. Sounds good!

jasonrohrer · 2018-06-19 15:41:11

The other tweak here is that murder victims still get the normal lineage ban in a given family line no matter how long they have lived, total. But just in the family that they were murdered in.

This allows you to dispatch a griefer for 3 hours, while not affecting new players too harshly (if they are the unwitting victim of murder, they get blocked from just one family).

kubassa · 2018-06-19 19:34:01

jasonrohrer wrote:

But baby suicide to get to the big village has always been possible.

Stop fighting what the players want. The more you do the more players stop playing. There was nothing wrong back in the day of baby suicide to play a FUN game with people building a big city. You should have embraced that game play you would have too many people playing the game at this point. Just seems you have done everything you can to make the game less fun.

Trick · 2018-06-19 21:43:54

jasonrohrer wrote:

Yeah, I realized that there are too many side-effects here, so I'm rolling back this change. The old lineage ban will still apply in all cases, just like it used to. If you let a baby die, they aren't coming back to your village for 3+ hours.
HOWEVER, to help brand new players out, the lineage ban will only kick in once a player has lived a total of 2 hours in the game. So their first two hours of living (and dying) will be lineage-ban-free.
These time-counters will reset every time the servers reset (once a week, after children-of-men), so the first two hours of a new server are kind of a wild west period with no lineage bans.
This will also help players who are getting back into the game after a time away from it (who haven't played since the last server reset).
This will allow griefers to return to a village within their first two hours of living. However, given that they have to grow up a bit to grief, this effect will be somewhat limited, because they will be chewing up their time clock every time they grow up.

(As for why these time counters don't last across server resets, I'm trying to keep the implementation quick and simple.... also, I'm not implementing inter-server communication for this feature anyway, so the servers will all be keeping separate records).

I don't think you should have rolled it back. I played today, and some white asshole (probably YAHG) blocked my mother from being able to feed me (a black baby) in the biggest town, and I starved to death. The rest of my games were all small towns, or Eves. As soon as I start spawning as Eve or baby of Eve, I stop playing. There's only so many games I am willing to start from scratch.

On that point, I think there is a problem with the frequency of Eve spawns. Many people don't want to go through the monotony of starting up from scratch over and over again. It sucks. It doesn't develop new skills. It doesn't feel fun - it feels like a chore. It's also REALLY hard on new players.

I think you should be able to choose to be an Eve, or otherwise only spawn with the highest generation groups (in order). Bans should only happen in the event of a murder.
There are people who enjoy being an Eve. Let those people opt into that role, or force them into it only when there aren't alternatives. I think *most* players want to play with other people.

Also, spawn us close to other camps/groups so that we can stumble upon them, or *ACTUALLY* make it to a bell when it rings (what's the point of the bell if it's impossible to make it in your lifetime?)

YAHG · 2018-06-19 21:56:32

Trick wrote:

(probably YAHG)

LOL

Trick · 2018-06-19 22:08:40

YAHG wrote:

Trick wrote:
(probably YAHG)
LOL

Bahahah! Racism is fucking hilarious.

Here's a thought - instead of killing other players, why don't you create some cages and throw the babies in there? That seems to be the rage of racist people these days.

YAHG · 2018-06-19 22:11:51

Trick wrote:

YAHG wrote:
Trick wrote:
(probably YAHG)
LOL
Bahahah! Racism is fucking hilarious.
Here's a thought - instead of killing other players, why don't you create some cages and throw the babies in there? That seems to be the rage of racist people these days.

I haven't played all day. I think it is hilarious that when something bad happens you think of me.

It is romantic... lol

Trick · 2018-06-19 22:14:05

YAHG wrote:

Trick wrote:
YAHG wrote:
LOL
Bahahah! Racism is fucking hilarious.
Here's a thought - instead of killing other players, why don't you create some cages and throw the babies in there? That seems to be the rage of racist people these days.
I haven't played all day. I think it is hilarious that when something bad happens you think of me.
It is romantic... lol

Only when something racist happens.***

You're the one who openly and proudly admitted you were racist.

And trust me, there isn't an iota of romance in it at all.

One Hour One Life Forums

#1 2018-06-19 01:12:11

Re: improved lineage ban; bring back bad mother code?

#2 2018-06-19 01:16:11

Re: Re: improved lineage ban; bring back bad mother code?

#3 2018-06-19 01:16:58

Re: Re: improved lineage ban; bring back bad mother code?

#4 2018-06-19 01:19:22

Re: Re: improved lineage ban; bring back bad mother code?

#5 2018-06-19 01:47:35

Re: Re: improved lineage ban; bring back bad mother code?

#6 2018-06-19 04:13:17

Re: Re: improved lineage ban; bring back bad mother code?

#7 2018-06-19 04:35:43

Re: Re: improved lineage ban; bring back bad mother code?

#8 2018-06-19 05:03:57

Re: Re: improved lineage ban; bring back bad mother code?

#9 2018-06-19 05:49:05

Re: Re: improved lineage ban; bring back bad mother code?

#10 2018-06-19 07:45:07

Re: Re: improved lineage ban; bring back bad mother code?

#11 2018-06-19 08:17:01

Re: Re: improved lineage ban; bring back bad mother code?

#12 2018-06-19 10:38:35

Re: Re: improved lineage ban; bring back bad mother code?

#13 2018-06-19 10:55:13

Re: Re: improved lineage ban; bring back bad mother code?

#14 2018-06-19 13:04:08

Re: Re: improved lineage ban; bring back bad mother code?

#15 2018-06-19 13:06:46

Re: Re: improved lineage ban; bring back bad mother code?

#16 2018-06-19 15:10:31

Re: Re: improved lineage ban; bring back bad mother code?

#17 2018-06-19 15:25:04

Re: Re: improved lineage ban; bring back bad mother code?

#18 2018-06-19 15:27:05

Re: Re: improved lineage ban; bring back bad mother code?

#19 2018-06-19 15:41:11

Re: Re: improved lineage ban; bring back bad mother code?

#20 2018-06-19 19:34:01

Re: Re: improved lineage ban; bring back bad mother code?

#21 2018-06-19 21:43:54

Re: Re: improved lineage ban; bring back bad mother code?

#22 2018-06-19 21:56:32

Re: Re: improved lineage ban; bring back bad mother code?

#23 2018-06-19 22:08:40

Re: Re: improved lineage ban; bring back bad mother code?

#24 2018-06-19 22:11:51

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#25 2018-06-19 22:14:05

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