Wells, water containers, and water in general

Izzytok · 2018-05-23 17:14:03

I was reading through the '"Everything runs out" - maybe it actually should' thread and I guess it kinda veered off towards water management and wells. I just thought it might be nice to have a thread specifically to discuss these things, and maybe post ideas for changes we would like to see or think would make the game better.

So, onto my idea:

Make buckets usefull, while making the wells more interactive, and maybe making the cistern usefull along the way.

The idea is, since buckets are pretty expensive to make, to give them some extra utility, mainly with increased size. This has been said before, so it might not sound all that interesting.
I'd couple this change, with a change to how the deep well works. My idea is to have buckets be the choke point for using deep wells. Once completing the deep well, you would have to lower the bucket into the well, which would take a short time, and advance through different levels of depth. Once you were happy with the depth reached, you would pull the bucket out, and if there was still water at that level, you would get a full bucket, and soak up the top-most level of water in the well. If you pull out the bucket too soon (on a dry level), you just get an empty bucket, and have to start lowering again.

Then, you could use another bucket to get more water out of the well. That would make, in my opinion, a well+cistern combo usefull, since you could empty the bucket into the cistern, and lower the same bucket into the well right away.

The well would then refill in layers of water at a set rate (or not?) and would have a max depth, at which you were guaranteed to get a bucket of water if the well has any water left, or if you don't get anything, the well is empty.

This would add a small minigame element to how you gather water, and make buckets and cisterns more usefull in general. I didn't put in any numbers since I just wanted to get the idea across, numbers would just be part of balancing.

So, what are your thoughts?

And feel free to discuss other water-based ideas here.

Last edited by Izzytok (2018-05-23 17:28:10)

Valences42 · 2018-05-23 17:38:25

I like this!

What if buckets were more useful capacity wise? As in, a bucket held 2 portions of water (Kind of like a bowl of dough holds many portions of pie crust) instead of one?

I've never had the patience to make a bunch of buckets in game, so maybe this is already a thing. Any woodworking generally confuses me. The guy who spams wheels, now that's dedication, right there...

I feel like the main anxiety about wells is there is "no mouse over the entity to see the capacity" function, to the best of my knowledge. The newer players, fueled by the best intentions, can drain the wells without knowing how or why. (Or, maybe this user interface has been updated and I just run away from the wells in trepidation like an uncivilized savage... directly to the ponds... which happen to be miles away from the farm...)

This is why we see well walls.

Izzytok · 2018-05-23 17:44:40

That's part of my idea, sorry if that wasn't clear enough. You'd make the bucket hold more water, 3 portions maybe, so it's an alternative to basket+3 pouches. The downside of the bucket would then be that maybe you couldn't use the water from it directly; as in, you can fill pouches or bowls with it, but you can't water things with bucket or put it into bowl of flour to make dough. That kind of thing.

In my mind I was kinda thinking 3 portions all along, so it'd make pulling it out of well worthwhile, while also not making it obviously better than a basket with 3 pouches inside.

Valences42 · 2018-05-23 17:47:30

Oh! I'm sorry I misunderstood you then.

I think that's a fantastic idea. My only concern with it is draining wells faster if we use buckets to their full extent (buckets with three portion capacity).

Izzytok · 2018-05-23 18:00:09

Valences42 wrote:

Oh! I'm sorry I misunderstood you then.
I think that's a fantastic idea. My only concern with it is draining wells faster if we use buckets to their full extent (buckets with three portion capacity).

The idea is that wells then come in bucket-full's of water.

For instance if you wanted to keep it close to current wells, and changed the bucket capacity to 3, the well would have water 5 layers (buckets) deep. So you could take water out 5 times for a total of 15 water. Water would then regenerate layer by layer at a fixed rate (or maybe have lots of layers but wouldn't refill).

Lets say you would lower the bucket 1 layer per 5 seconds. Taking the water out would for example work like this:

- use the bucket on the well, it starts lowering
- click on well with empty hand, take it out instantly and get a full bucket, the topmost layer of water is drained
- do the previous steps again, this time you get no water, since the top layer is empty
- do step one again
- wait 10 seconds
- click on well, get a full bucket, there are now 3 layers left
and so on.

You could just pop the bucket in and go do something else. When you come back, you will either get water from the bottom layer or you'll know the well is empty.

Valences42 · 2018-05-23 18:17:04

Oh ok! Thanks for clarifying! A few questions for your design:

If wells can only be accessed only by buckets then maybe a cistern could be the only thing a full bucket could directly empty into? Maybe that's what you meant with the well/cistern combo. (If I understand that correctly). Then the only things a single portion water container could draw water from would be ponds and cisterns, and you couldn't necessarily water three rows of seeds with one bucket.

Should well building include ropes (simulated pulley system)?

Last edited by Valences42 (2018-05-23 18:29:42)

Izzytok · 2018-05-23 19:45:42

These kind of specifics would really come down to the balancing. I just wanted to put the idea out there.

What I was thinking was that you could fill up bowls and pouches with the bucket and vice-versa. You just couldn't use the bucket directly to do actions such as watering crops or making dough and such.

The reason I think this would make cistern more viable is that, while you could make 4 buckets and leave them sitting by the well or put them onto a cart once you filled them up, you could have a cistern nearby and use the same bucket over and over, while waiting for the well to refill. Ofcourse you could put 4 full buckets onto a cart and have a superior portable cistern, but I always thought cistern holds to little water, and making a cart and 4 buckets is pretty resource intensive, compared to a cistern and bucket.

For the ropes, I was thinking the way wells are made now is fine. There's obviously a rope on the deep well sprite, and it doesn't explicitly require a rope in the construction, so I guess it's the rope from bucket construction.

Glassius · 2018-05-24 21:26:25

I would enhance the idea.

There is already a deep well with stanchion kit. You can left click it or right click it. Left click is lowering the backet (put some fancy animation here) until it hits the water lever, with splash sound and no more lowering animation. To get it out you need to click the same times right click, possible with the same animation, until you gut a deep well with visible bucket full of water.

Shallow well will be one water take possible. The water table lowered and is unaccessible for now. You have to wait for it to replenish.

This way:
1. Shallow well never dry out. But is still horrible, as it allows only one pick in long time.
2. Numbers of lowering bucket are the indicator of current well state. Something we miss very much.

The idea completely independent from greater bucket storage and deep well drying out and area effect I suggested here.. Just a quick reminder: with area effect nearby wells may affect each other. Spamming wells close to each other would be a bad idea.

Izzytok · 2018-05-25 06:27:35

I'm pretty sure jason said somewhere that "area effects" are not something that is viable in this simulation. I might have just missunderstood what he said, so don't quote me on that. Design wise I think the shallow well should essentially be a pond you can place wherever you like. It should have low capacity and refill slowly. The deep well should then be a noticable step-up. There are many ways to do that, and I think what I explained above would succeed in making the deep well more than just a shallow well with more capacity. My thinking is that the higher tech should be straight up better, but require a barrier of entry - buckets in this case.

Similarly once pumps roll out, I don't think they should just be the same as wells, but with x capacity. There should be a trick to their use, like maybe one person has to pump it, so the other can fill up containers. Just some barrier of entry that will make building a pump right from the get-go a sub-optimal choice.

breezeknight · 2018-05-25 11:27:25

@Izzytok
for only one hour to live are your suggestions too complicated

i also am against the bucket carrying more than 2 portions of water tops, but i am ok with only one as well

at least the dry wells refill now again after a long time, so they are not just an eyesore

pein · 2018-05-27 05:26:35

generally you want an upgrade to be unique and exponentially better than the lower level
thats why i proposed big pouches which hold more water and making soup out of it, soup would require more ingredients and it would fill you only to full, no waste, but obviously you would need upgraded well, also if only one could be made with each, then multiple upgraded ones

i would like water deposits and limited water, more emphases on transport
weather conditions like drough and rain could be introduced which would refill ponds and wells
then storing would be a thing

One Hour One Life Forums

#1 2018-05-23 17:14:03

Wells, water containers, and water in general

#2 2018-05-23 17:38:25

Re: Wells, water containers, and water in general

#3 2018-05-23 17:44:40

Re: Wells, water containers, and water in general

#4 2018-05-23 17:47:30

Re: Wells, water containers, and water in general

#5 2018-05-23 18:00:09

Re: Wells, water containers, and water in general

#6 2018-05-23 18:17:04

Re: Wells, water containers, and water in general

#7 2018-05-23 19:45:42

Re: Wells, water containers, and water in general

#8 2018-05-24 21:26:25

Re: Wells, water containers, and water in general

#9 2018-05-25 06:27:35

Re: Wells, water containers, and water in general

#10 2018-05-25 11:27:25

Re: Wells, water containers, and water in general

#11 2018-05-27 05:26:35

Re: Wells, water containers, and water in general

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