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Lotus · 2018-05-15 10:34:28

na

Last edited by Lotus (2018-12-26 06:44:48)

breezeknight · 2018-05-15 11:20:10

wheat farming is very expensive, it consumes fertile soil

pies are in fact meantime in OHOL rather a luxury
domesticated wheat should be probably rather used for compost, it produces fertile soil

i use wild wheat for a basket if there are no tule reeds nearby
but i would never use a domesticated wheat for baskets, that's literal griefing of fertile soil

carrots are still the main food, especially if you stay in town
pies are good only if you are running about outside the town & there's not enough wild food

the whole thing is interdependend
you need baskets for carrots, use rather boxes instead
use wheat for compost & if flour remains from that, make pies, but only then

https://kazetsukai.github.io/onetech/
https://onehouronelife.gamepedia.com/Crafting

Last edited by breezeknight (2018-05-15 11:22:56)

JS · 2018-05-15 11:20:41

1. There must be a lot of soil to be able to farm wheat.
In other words, try to make the compost by raising the sheep and shit.

2. If you collect the ripe wheat with your bare hands, the wheat seed will come out indefinitely.
The wheat seeds disappear quickly.
Sprinkle wheat seeds on the soil.

3. Cut ripe wheat into sharp stones or flint chips.

4. Brush the wheat into the branch.

5. Yellow wheat is placed in a bowl.

6. Straw makes compost.

Put the carrots in the berry bowl.
It is crushed by sharp stone.

Bring the carrot berry bowl to the straw.

Water the compost.

Put the sheep shit in the wet compost.
(Using a shovel)

To make sheep's shit, you feed the lamb. AS carrot berry bowl.
(You CAN USE, OR not use Sharp Stone FOR FEED)

The lamb becomes a sheep as eats (CREATE the shit.)

7. If you slaughter a sheep with a knife, you will have leather and meat.
Cut the meat into 4 pieces.

When you put the meat ON the dough PLATE, it becomes a mutton pie.

Last edited by JS (2018-05-15 11:31:21)

Alleria · 2018-05-15 11:41:47

breezeknight wrote:

i use wild wheat for a basket if there are no tule reeds nearby
but i would never use a domesticated wheat for baskets, that's literal griefing of fertile soil

Strongly disagreed. I usually turn about half my wheat into baskets with the other half going to compost. Ideally, you have about 4 baskets per person. There's no point to having more than this, since you're just making it harder for future generations. Pies are now more important than ever, and you should never be eating carrots after ~6-10 generations when you get your sheep pen established. You should also never put carrots in pies (sometimes acceptable if it's a 2nd ingredient).

pein · 2018-05-15 13:40:06

well, is interdependent and needs some calculations
but currently wheat farming is needed to restart towns
if you got enough berry bushes and dung, make as many berry bowls as you can and stick carrot into it, this is first step, before anyone eats it, choose a good spot, with some water, 2 ponds or wells enough, lot of free space
get one soil, a wild wheat seed, water it. this becomes a wheat. now get some more soil and plant a few
generally you need to keep one ripe wheat uncut, so provides seeds right away
make two composts, then use soil to plant more wheat
if you make baskets, you get two grains which never gets used, so take it to side of town, there use branch on sheaf, so the grains stay there, do not take inside town as it gonna block the tile or uses up a bowl infinitely
if you make compost, using one dung, shearing and killing the sheep, is perfect circle, as one wheat gives 4 crust for four mutton pieces and one compost, the 3 extra soil can be used for berry , milkweed, carrot and sapling farming
generally the case is you get too many dungs because of clothes, or too many grain because of baskets

one other thing is adobe. clay is hard to get, and if there is no reet near, then is viable to make adobe near wheat farm, its only 7-8 to make two more kilns

anyway i seen that extra grain covers half of the city, this case carrot pies are viable if you got 20+ wells, as their usefullness goes down, and tile space is valuable, just imagine each basket needs 10 carrot pies to get rid of the grain. i dont think hunters can keep up with rabbit

Last edited by pein (2018-05-15 13:40:19)

Lily · 2018-05-15 16:00:37

You need sheep to make dung for compost, so if there is no sheep in town then just make the strew into baskets. Strew decays in 4 minutes, so you can't save it for later. Either make compost or baskets with it right away. The threshed wheat does stay around forever, so it is okay to leave it there for later.

Using wheat for compost is the ideal situation. If you are making your own compost, then using up soil for wheat farming isn't a problem plus you can support other farming activities as well, and you get a lot of pies out of it as well. So that is what you should be aiming for.

YAHG · 2018-05-15 16:54:18

If we have waste grain isn't it then worth it to make carrot pies?
I am seeing it as a sunk cost at that point so we can ignore the soil inputs as they are gone by then?

Lily · 2018-05-15 17:50:26

YAHG wrote:

If we have waste grain isn't it then worth it to make carrot pies?
I am seeing it as a sunk cost at that point so we can ignore the soil inputs as they are gone by then?

Well the threshed wheat doesn't go bad, so you can leave it sitting around forever before using it if you want. So you can wait until later to make a better pie if you want. That said, if you need food now, then it is probably best to just make the pies. Also the more expensive pies are wasted on the young and elderly anyway, so if you are going to give them a pie, might as well make it a carrot pie.

YAHG · 2018-05-15 18:33:46

Lily wrote:

YAHG wrote:
If we have waste grain isn't it then worth it to make carrot pies?
I am seeing it as a sunk cost at that point so we can ignore the soil inputs as they are gone by then?
Well the threshed wheat doesn't go bad, so you can leave it sitting around forever before using it if you want. So you can wait until later to make a better pie if you want. That said, if you need food now, then it is probably best to just make the pies. Also the more expensive pies are wasted on the young and elderly anyway, so if you are going to give them a pie, might as well make it a carrot pie.

Aye, my thinking was that mutton pie is sorta self contained and doesn't really use up excess grains.
Even if it is wasted you still have so much more.

It would be nice to have a grain sink, perhaps pigs or other ways to feed animals like horses.

pein · 2018-05-15 19:53:16

i know it sounds asshole but, what about making the mutton pie for ourself, and carrot pie for others? its still a pie, they can eat 4 times, and inside the city where people dont move doesnt matter that much, the luxury pies are for adventurers. if hunters still get some rabbit then you put in it. carrot pie is still 3-4 times better than carrot, honestly just the water and the work time is the cost.
obviously this requires separate oven.
its just never gonna happen, if you got a town with dung, even if the pen is griefed, you see on the baskets needed that they had like 100 grain which covers 100 tiles, mostly near carrot farm. now 100 rabbits makes 20 backpacks, but you shouldnt calculate with that, people are lazy, maybe 4-5 people gonna have a backpack for two generations.

breezeknight · 2018-05-15 20:44:32

Alleria wrote:

breezeknight wrote:
i use wild wheat for a basket if there are no tule reeds nearby
but i would never use a domesticated wheat for baskets, that's literal griefing of fertile soil
Strongly disagreed. I usually turn about half my wheat into baskets with the other half going to compost. Ideally, you have about 4 baskets per person. There's no point to having more than this, since you're just making it harder for future generations. Pies are now more important than ever, and you should never be eating carrots after ~6-10 generations when you get your sheep pen established. You should also never put carrots in pies (sometimes acceptable if it's a 2nd ingredient).

baskets decay, so first you destroy fertile soil, 2 fertile soil for one basket + 4 pies & then the basket itself is useless
while with the same 2 wheat you can make 8 fertile soil

if you're already into sheeps, then is making boxes a far better form of town storage than baskets & carts can be even carried around

about pies & their nutrition value compared to the other food options :

Carrot Pie = 5x4=20 ( Carrot=5 )
Berry Pie = 10x4=40 ( Gooseberry=3x6=18 !!! )
Rabbit Pie = 12x4=48 ( Cooked Rabbit=8 !!! )
Berry Carrot Pie = 13x4=52 ( Carrot=5+3x6=18Gooseberry=23 !!! )
Berry Rabbit Pie = 16x4=64 ( 3x6=18Gooseberry+Cooked Rabbit=8=26 )
Rabbit Carrot Pie = 16x4=64 ( Carrot=5+Cooked Rabbit=8=13 !!! )
Berry Carrot Rabbit Pie = 18x4=72 ( 3x6=18Gooseberry+Carrot=5+Cooked Rabbit=8=31 !!! )
Mutton Pie = 13x4=52 ( Cooked Mutton = 10 )

now about the effort :

* to collect berries needs only one step & no other effort or utensils
* to make a berry pie needs 20 steps, 19 steps for the pie crust alone
* to make mutton one needs 61 steps, one should keep in mind that one needs the entire smithing for that & all the efforts to tend sheeps properly in a confined space, on top of all that there is also THE KNIFE, which can be used & as it stands for now WILL BE USED by somebody, to kill not only sheeps but also people
* to make domesticated carrots one needs 19 steps & only either to hunt rabbits (22 steps) or make pottery (15 steps) to carry water, which is moderately easy to make
* & carrots are anyway there if there have to be sheeps

if i count the effort & tech advancement & care for the steps needed to get to the food then my equation which food is efficient goes like this :

BERRIES - YES, because easy to make
CARROTS - YES, because relatively easy to make
carrot pie - no (because not nutricious enough for all the effort & costs : wheat, soil, fire, plates)
berry pie - no (same)
berry-carrot pie - no (same)
Rabbit - only for limited use (needles, beginner settlement)
rabbit pie - no (same as rabbit & berry pie)
RABBIT-CARROT PIE - YES (that's one of the best gains for all the effort put into it)
rabbit-berry pie - no (similar to rabbit pie)
rabbit-berry-carrot pie - no (waste of berries)
MUTTON PIE - YES, because it's more practical to carry than mutton, not because it's more nutricious
MUTTON - YES, if in town

oc those are the optimal uses, one can always deviate from it if necessary or if the better options are not accessible atm
but one should know how much effort one has to put into something before judging the gain from the end result
people usually forget not only the effort needed before a gain but also the side effects
tending berries & carrots has moderate side effects & needs low effort
making carrot-rabbit pies has a high gain compared to all the effort needed
mutton & mutton pie has a high gain, especially if combined with carrot farming but it has also a high risk & high effort needed

pein · 2018-05-16 00:23:09

making berry pies is dangerous, i stab you on second time xD

Valences42 · 2018-05-16 01:54:33

Op, I'm glad you are asking these questions. It doesn't sound dumb - I'm glad to learn things too!

Some of us are afraid to help because farmers are very passionate.

If I was a veteran farmer, I would not be very patient with headdesk inducing behavior, no matter how well intentioned the new person is.

Also, this game keeps evolving every week.

So the compost recipe has been changing multiple times, which makes people constantly adapt.

Alleria · 2018-05-16 03:05:33

@Breezeknight - You do realise reeds don't respawn lol? I'd love to see you try to play with no baskets.

Also, please stop shilling for carrots - we both know the Carrot Bishop isn't even paying you well. We'll never have a public city lasting more than 50 generations if you keep it up.

Why would you say rabbit pie is bad when it's so clearly not? Rabbit carrot pie nearly always wasted, so how frequently do you think you get 64 calories from it? Even if everyone is top 20% player, I doubt you'll get better than 54 calories from each pie on average. Power gamers rarely make rabbit carrot pie, so why would you recommend plebs to do it? Also, threshed wheat has negative value, given it's essentially a waste product now, so the more pie you make the better. If you have spare plates, even berry pies are acceptable (disclaimer: I've never been in a public town where this is the case) - moreso than carrots, because carrots aren't renewable.

tl;dr - Mutton pie is the best, followed by rabbit. Mixing 2 ingredients is usually wasteful. You should be turning wheat into baskets until you have about 3-4 baskets per person. Any more than that is a waste.

Last edited by Alleria (2018-05-16 03:08:35)

Lily · 2018-05-16 04:45:24

People usually throw a carrot into the rabbit pies because they are easy to get and plentiful and it is more efficient than eating the carrot. If you have a ton of rabbits and not many carrots I wouldn't worry about it, but if you got the carrots laying around all over, might as well throw them in.

breezeknight · 2018-05-16 12:42:12

@Alleria

every player interested in preserving of ressources can do the math
i presented it

an adult has 20 food capacity
1/4th of a rabbit-carrot pie fills it completely starting with food need dropped all the way down to 4, you can even wait till it drops to only 1 point & if eaten you'll be filled nearly completely
1/4th of a sole rabbit pie fills only 3/5 of the food meter, that's near enough to only half of it, when it's probably actually eaten
also rabbits are usually rather seldom in a settlement, one needs patience, so to waste all that work to fill only 3/5 of a hunger bar if you could fill it with only one additional carrot to nearly all of it, if that's not being perceived as waste, then i can't help it

but every player is allowed to eat every fancy food already when the food bar droped one bit already
i will still search among all those useless sole carrot, berry & rabbit pies io to find either a rabbit-carrot or mutton pie
those will remain for me the only viable choice to eat pies when adult & eat them when the food meter is extremely low first
i will also still be putting carrots into the bowls with rabbit to make those pies sustainable

& oc everybody who needs a quick casual game with "Power gamers" to reach the next record goal is free to follow your advice as your "pleb"

Mr.XIX · 2018-05-16 14:25:51

breezeknight wrote:

@Alleria
every player interested in preserving of ressources can do the math
i presented it
...

You didn't use one very important fact in your calculation.
People don't always eat when they are very low on hunger and waste food.
Very often I see children eating rabbit/carrot pie. They overeat by a lot.
If you only make rabbit pies, they overeat less, and you preserve that extra carrot (that you didn't use for the pie) and let them eat that.

breezeknight wrote:

Carrot Pie = 5x4=20 ( Carrot=5 )
Berry Pie = 10x4=40 ( Gooseberry=3x6=18 !!! )
Rabbit Pie = 12x4=48 ( Cooked Rabbit=8 !!! )
...
...

This is incorrect. You forgot about the eating bonus. This is currently at 2. This means that every time you eat, you get two extra food for free.

The only time you get full value out of your rabbit/carrot pie is when you eat is as an adult who has only two hunger left.
This is very rarely the case.
A rabbit pie restores 14 hunger. A very reasonable amount, because you will be remembered to eat when having six hunger left.

The food difference between putting and not putting the carrot into the pie = 56 + 7 vs 72.
Only a difference of 9 food! If a child eats only one single bite of a rabbit/carrot pie, this is wasted.

TL:DR
math didn't check out.
~~People~~Children overeat a lot when eating pies
Children should be shot on sight when holding a pie.

Alleria · 2018-05-16 15:03:09

breezeknight wrote:

i will also still be putting carrots into the bowls with rabbit to make those pies sustainable

& oc everybody who needs a quick casual game with "Power gamers" to reach the next record goal is free to follow your advice as your "pleb"

Carrots AREN'T sustainable - that's the thing.

I just want to address some of the misinformation in the forums. It's too frequent that I see "Q" babies doing things that make me shudder - because they read it on the forums.

I'm not as interested in breaking records, as I am in people playing as efficiently as they can.

Also, since in a well-functioning town every has a backpack, you should be producing about 126 calories per person, which is more than a third of their caloric intake, and in combination with mutton pies and berries during childhood and old age, you've got all your food sorted. Putting a carrot in your rabbit pies is usually a waste of time and 7 calories.

Last edited by Alleria (2018-05-16 15:11:30)

pein · 2018-05-16 15:27:03

i often eat at 5 bars left as lag killed me with item in hand near a bush, so there is that
also i always signal f when i grow a bit as a baby, f at 2 bars? im good as dead

good luck having enough rabbits

this whole food thing is different topic
my point is, 8 carrot pies are needed to clean up the grain left there by makign baskets, so take the wheat sheaf where free tiles not an issue, if you need baskets, wells are full and baskets decayed, means you need a huge wheat farm and carrot pies are fine

i do think all people need a purpose in their life, so even if its ineffective, its a purpose, a kid getting me firewood? he jsut saved me tons of time for forging, getting me one piece of clay? im happy about it as he scouted the map a bit and even one bowl made is something to use the kindling on while making clay
i often see people living their life in the clothes you gave them, wandering around the town for half hour not doing anything useful, now every well which is full, its a water wasted every 5 minutes, every berry bush which is full its a bowl of berry wasted every hour, less time for griefing, murdering, crying about seeds, making drama

YAHG · 2018-05-16 15:44:02

pein wrote:

i do think all people need a purpose in their life, so even if its ineffective, its a purpose, a kid getting me firewood? he jsut saved me tons of time for forging, getting me one piece of clay? im happy about it as he scouted the map a bit and even one bowl made is something to use the kindling on while making clay
i often see people living their life in the clothes you gave them, wandering around the town for half hour not doing anything useful, now every well which is full, its a water wasted every 5 minutes, every berry bush which is full its a bowl of berry wasted every hour, less time for griefing, murdering, crying about seeds, making drama

True that

breezeknight · 2018-05-16 16:37:14

Alleria wrote:

Carrots AREN'T sustainable - that's the thing.
I just want to address some of the misinformation in the forums. It's too frequent that I see "Q" babies doing things that make me shudder - because they read it on the forums.
I'm not as interested in breaking records, as I am in people playing as efficiently as they can.
Also, since in a well-functioning town every has a backpack, you should be producing about 126 calories per person, which is more than a third of their caloric intake, and in combination with mutton pies and berries during childhood and old age, you've got all your food sorted. Putting a carrot in your rabbit pies is usually a waste of time and 7 calories.

you just can't let it go
just can't stand that others have a different view of things
cause what you say is just per se absolutely true while what everybody not agreeing with you says is misinformation, thanks

btw
there are no calories in the game, but because you said that there are, therefore this is oc no misinformation, right ?

i won't be discussing anymore with you
cause what you say is just true, so what is there to discuss ?

breezeknight · 2018-05-16 17:33:19

pein wrote:

i often eat at 5 bars left as lag killed me with item in hand near a bush, so there is that
also i always signal f when i grow a bit as a baby, f at 2 bars? im good as dead
good luck having enough rabbits
this whole food thing is different topic
my point is, 8 carrot pies are needed to clean up the grain left there by makign baskets, so take the wheat sheaf where free tiles not an issue, if you need baskets, wells are full and baskets decayed, means you need a huge wheat farm and carrot pies are fine
i do think all people need a purpose in their life, so even if its ineffective, its a purpose, a kid getting me firewood? he jsut saved me tons of time for forging, getting me one piece of clay? im happy about it as he scouted the map a bit and even one bowl made is something to use the kindling on while making clay
i often see people living their life in the clothes you gave them, wandering around the town for half hour not doing anything useful, now every well which is full, its a water wasted every 5 minutes, every berry bush which is full its a bowl of berry wasted every hour, less time for griefing, murdering, crying about seeds, making drama

maybe that's the thing
nobody really willing to hunt rabbits, lol
not enough patience
hunting rabbits is probably the second unpopular thing after farming carrots
but so far it's an exception that rabbits are rare around a settlement & that's then just a badly chosen spot or a spot chosen to head straight for sheep herding

& please don't tell me, that to waste two soil with domesticated wheat for one basket is more sustainable than to run a little longer with a cart & get 4 baskets from wild stuff, which simply stands there unused
lazy ? that might be the point

i am really looking forward till Jason introduces mass production plagues, will be probably as popular as apocalypse & decay was

Lily · 2018-05-16 18:03:14

It used to be that you would have more children the more often you were at full, but that got changed to being based around temperature. It got changed because I pointed out that the most civilized people who have high quality pies are basically always starving, because you have to let it drop really low to get the most out of your pie. Mean while people surviving off carrots and berries stuff their faces all the time because they give so little food. So it actually turned out the more often you were full the poorer and less civilized you likely were.

pein · 2018-05-17 05:46:14

its not about that, inexperienced people might never go outside a connected town, once they see the edge of items they consider it dangerous
if you got berries in the city, and closest reet is like 100 tiles away, nobody gonna make baskets there, especially with no cart
me as a kid take a basket of carrots and run into fire/desert spot, then run until i found my thread, the snares, etc.
lot of kids dont even take a food in their hand, or they dont find a sharp stone (cause probably im the only one who cuts reet and wheat with a flint) so they dont make baskets, or they see some and think its enough, on first update all people were lazy to remake the baskets, better they cried about it so jason give them that but took away a lot of heat bonus from basic biomes

savannah is the worst currently, if totally fine if its not right next to the town, if it is its ok, but desert and green biome with a swamp for some ponds is key
and if a town died out means they used all they close reet and wheat. so yes, wheat farming is viable for baskets, and if you want people to restart a town, leave a lot of wheat for this purpose

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