Tule Decay?

possiblyrandom · 2018-04-28 15:58:13

Does Tule not regrow? I could have sworn it did then I saw some despawn right next to me.

breezeknight · 2018-04-28 16:11:00

you mean tule reeds ?
yes, it regrows, it takes just some time

what do you mean by "despawn" ?
if the stumps vanished next to you without any reasonable explanation then it might be a glitch with the new decay solution, get's fixed probably in next updates

now that i think of, it happened to me with wild wheat, after harvesting it, the stumps vanished, i hope this was not intented

maybe this issue is worth reporting in the Known Bugs forum

Lily · 2018-04-28 16:14:13

The location you cut shouldn't disappear, though the cut reeds do despawn fairly quickly I think.

jasonrohrer · 2018-04-28 16:21:44

Check the update....

Lily · 2018-04-28 17:09:11

Oh they do despawn now. That is kind of brutal.

jasonrohrer · 2018-04-28 17:22:24

Baskets last way longer, though...

The idea here is that anything that breaks down, but is made of respawning natural resources, is pure tedium. Basket breaks, walk back to the tule and make another basket. It's just busy-work. One weird trick that you have to do periodically.

But if the underlying natural resources do not respawn, then the basket itself becomes a tension point in the system. How are you going to deal with this? There are several ways, but none of them involve busy-work. They all involve trade-offs and decision-making.

akoopatroop · 2018-04-28 17:36:25

Why despawn rather than extremely slow respawn rate?

Or is the new Eve placement algorithm meant to ensure that Eve is in pristine wilderness, and moving toward origin will reveal barren wilderness and useless towns?

This whole one-use nature thing feels very artificial to me.

Lily · 2018-04-28 17:39:33

The best way currently might be to build tons of wooden boxes to store stuff. They don't currently decay, though I am sure that will change. A wooden box used for storage should have a pretty long decay rate though. Personally that is my biggest concern, is just storage space.

If you are carrying things around then clearly backpack and wagons are the way to go.

YAHG · 2018-04-28 17:44:22

akoopatroop wrote:

This whole one-use nature thing feels very artificial to me.

That and I don't see what the point of it. Humanity isn't some scourge that lays waste to
everything wherever we go leaving it barren and lifeless, even if a number of people think
we are.

FeignedSanity · 2018-04-28 17:56:35

I personally think this is fine. The only real problem this creates is with adobe and I'm okay with that being finite. You only need around 10 for all your smithing and baking. Everything else would be for extra forges and oven, or walls. I feel like there's so many reeds that you could never realistically find yourself in the position of needing it for crafting, MAYBE griefers withstanding. As far as needing baskets go, you can still use straw; and I think that makes an amazing use for pie byproduct once you're good on compost.

Mr.XIX · 2018-04-28 18:05:27

YAHG wrote:

akoopatroop wrote:
This whole one-use nature thing feels very artificial to me.
That and I don't see what the point of it. Humanity isn't some scourge that lays waste to
everything wherever we go leaving it barren and lifeless, even if a number of people think
we are.

I think the point is to make you go search for solutions.
When starting a town, you can rely on onions, wild carrot seeds, fertile soil pits and, now also, Tule Reeds.
Once resources run dry, you will have to adjust to the situation.
This means creating a farm/bakery to ensure there is enough food, leaving carrots on the farm to make sure you got enough seeds and so on.
The result is an everchanging situation, which makes every playthrough feel different.

It might feel artificial or does not 'fully' reflect the reality (where reeds will grow back), but do we want a game that is exactly like real life?

jasonrohrer · 2018-04-28 19:33:13

Yes, that's the idea.

What you're doing through the life of a village, from Eve until the death of the village, should be a constantly moving target.

Tule isn't the only way to make a basket....

YAHG · 2018-04-28 19:36:14

Mr.XIX wrote:

YAHG wrote:
akoopatroop wrote:
This whole one-use nature thing feels very artificial to me.
That and I don't see what the point of it. Humanity isn't some scourge that lays waste to
everything wherever we go leaving it barren and lifeless, even if a number of people think
we are.
I think the point is to make you go search for solutions.
When starting a town, you can rely on onions, wild carrot seeds, fertile soil pits and, now also, Tule Reeds.
Once resources run dry, you will have to adjust to the situation.
This means creating a farm/bakery to ensure there is enough food, leaving carrots on the farm to make sure you got enough seeds and so on.
The result is an everchanging situation, which makes every playthrough feel different.
It might feel artificial or does not 'fully' reflect the reality (where reeds will grow back), but do we want a game that is exactly like real life?

Yeah you are probably right.

breezeknight · 2018-04-28 20:03:09

Mr.XIX wrote:

YAHG wrote:
akoopatroop wrote:
This whole one-use nature thing feels very artificial to me.
That and I don't see what the point of it. Humanity isn't some scourge that lays waste to
everything wherever we go leaving it barren and lifeless, even if a number of people think
we are.
I think the point is to make you go search for solutions.
When starting a town, you can rely on onions, wild carrot seeds, fertile soil pits and, now also, Tule Reeds.
Once resources run dry, you will have to adjust to the situation.
This means creating a farm/bakery to ensure there is enough food, leaving carrots on the farm to make sure you got enough seeds and so on.
The result is an everchanging situation, which makes every playthrough feel different.
It might feel artificial or does not 'fully' reflect the reality (where reeds will grow back), but do we want a game that is exactly like real life?

doesn't sound that interesting to me since there is not enough different paths to go but just one, up the tech tree,
feels then rather like being chased, flogged actually

akoopatroop · 2018-04-28 23:10:30

breezeknight wrote:

doesn't sound that interesting to me since there is not enough different paths to go but just one, up the tech tree,
feels then rather like being chased, flogged actually

This is my concern. Forcing wheat farming for basket-making is better than endless carrot farming how? And since soil is finite, then sheep farming is required, but sheep farming setup requires a very specific and lengthy path.

If there isn't a little bit of breathing room, we don't have time in-game to develop any ideas. Even pointing out good field layouts or that this tool could help.

The use of trash pits for sheep barriers is a cool emergent thing---but you don't get that rich emergence if you have one specific path in mind.

possiblyrandom · 2018-04-29 02:31:13

Man i just like basket weaving. I don't want to run out of tule ;-;

Potjeh · 2018-04-29 11:32:30

Weaving baskets from tule is a LOT less time-intensive than straw baskets. It seems like this is the theme of the game - productivity declines as tech advances. This is not only opposite of reality, but is also highly frustrating for players.

The last patch is a perfect example: to get a basket of ore from mine you need to bring a basket, a pick and a stanchion kit which is a minimum of two trips because stanchion doesn't fit in the cart. Or you can bring a bucket in cart and make stanchion kit on site (GL finding maples right next to the mine tho). Either way you still need to make a bucket, tho, which is an entire quest in itself. Whichever way you choose you're looking at burning 30-40 years between when you start working on this and when you bring home that basket of ore. Whereas in the early game you just need to make a basket and go collect three ore from the ground, and the entire process takes 5-10 years max. So the previous generations have worked their asses off so you can work your ass off while being five times less productive than they were. This theme persists through all industries, collecting wild foods gives you more food units per minute than carrot farming, which gives you more than pie making. Really, there is only one single tech upgrade that actually makes you more productive, and that is carts.

So with the game tech works, if family line survival is your primary goal the ideal strategy is to never do any tech whatsoever, simply live from bush to bush and keep moving constantly. People don't really do that intentionally, but the low average player skill (which will always be a thing because experienced players keep burning out) combined with the diminishing productivity puts a hard cap on town duration. As you work through the tech tree you simply have to push ever harder and work ever more efficiently just to stay in the same place population wise. So towns naturally quickly fail and Eves are the norm, which boils down to players spending most of their time playing the ideal strategy of living off wild berries. Now how's that for repetitiveness?

rellortism · 2018-04-29 16:28:40

....Is Tule stumps de-spawning too a thing?

My forest of reeds just vanished ;-;

Lily · 2018-04-29 16:54:24

Potjeh wrote:

So with the game tech works, if family line survival is your primary goal the ideal strategy is to never do any tech whatsoever, simply live from bush to bush and keep moving constantly. People don't really do that intentionally, but the low average player skill (which will always be a thing because experienced players keep burning out) combined with the diminishing productivity puts a hard cap on town duration. As you work through the tech tree you simply have to push ever harder and work ever more efficiently just to stay in the same place population wise. So towns naturally quickly fail and Eves are the norm, which boils down to players spending most of their time playing the ideal strategy of living off wild berries. Now how's that for repetitiveness?

That is the sort of thing that made me realize how productive cactus farming is. Get a nice spot with like 20 cactus, five per person and you can have a family of four live there indefinitely without doing anything. Though might still be a good idea to make a knife to kill all the snakes.

Drakulon · 2018-04-29 17:17:15

Lily wrote:

Potjeh wrote:
So with the game tech works, if family line survival is your primary goal the ideal strategy is to never do any tech whatsoever, simply live from bush to bush and keep moving constantly. People don't really do that intentionally, but the low average player skill (which will always be a thing because experienced players keep burning out) combined with the diminishing productivity puts a hard cap on town duration. As you work through the tech tree you simply have to push ever harder and work ever more efficiently just to stay in the same place population wise. So towns naturally quickly fail and Eves are the norm, which boils down to players spending most of their time playing the ideal strategy of living off wild berries. Now how's that for repetitiveness?
That is the sort of thing that made me realize how productive cactus farming is. Get a nice spot with like 20 cactus, five per person and you can have a family of four live there indefinitely without doing anything. Though might still be a good idea to make a knife to kill all the snakes.

Dont worry, Jason will nerf cactus and berries aswell so you cant life like that anymore and doing tech will again make sense
(pls dont, i was just joking)

Last edited by Drakulon (2018-04-29 17:21:44)

breezeknight · 2018-04-29 18:29:19

Lily wrote:

Potjeh wrote:
So with the game tech works, if family line survival is your primary goal the ideal strategy is to never do any tech whatsoever, simply live from bush to bush and keep moving constantly. People don't really do that intentionally, but the low average player skill (which will always be a thing because experienced players keep burning out) combined with the diminishing productivity puts a hard cap on town duration. As you work through the tech tree you simply have to push ever harder and work ever more efficiently just to stay in the same place population wise. So towns naturally quickly fail and Eves are the norm, which boils down to players spending most of their time playing the ideal strategy of living off wild berries. Now how's that for repetitiveness?
That is the sort of thing that made me realize how productive cactus farming is. Get a nice spot with like 20 cactus, five per person and you can have a family of four live there indefinitely without doing anything. Though might still be a good idea to make a knife to kill all the snakes.

just wait till Jason nerfes cacti also
everything so far which was infinite is now slowly turned into something finite, so why not cacti too ?

pein · 2018-04-30 15:16:45

they always did, if you cut it use it, do not put on empty tile
spawns back in one hour, was half hour decay for baskets, and extra half on destoyed state, now is increased

sheep pen requires 2 shovels and some stakes, if you are fine with pits, actually looks pretty good, like a castle moat
or just build it out of oven base, cheap as well, and you can use an oven inside pen wall anyway
by cutting the cost, and making it sooner, you can plant wheat, make bushes and have enough berry bowls before population booms, my best runs are 2nd or 3rd generation, thats why you need small population and some cactus, make the smart survive and nobos die out, eventually the city will be built

jasonrohrer · 2018-04-30 20:27:27

Will make sheep fall in trash pit during next update....

Uncle Gus · 2018-04-30 20:34:22

Hahaha, classic Jason.

jasonrohrer · 2018-04-30 20:35:04

The problem that I'm facing is that high tech life is boring.

That is why everyone in real life is depressed.

For the most part, high tech life is focused on entertainment. Playing OHOL 10 hours a day, for example.

Anything that becomes infinite becomes something that you no longer need to think or make decisions about. Just make more of it. Endlessly.

So if I give you "higher tech" that lets you make 10x baskets from the same amount of tule, baskets become worthless and sorta fall out of the economy.

This is true in real life, of course, where no one uses baskets but instead uses "free" disposable plastic bags to carry stuff.

But in real life, since you don't spend your time making baskets, you spend your time watching Netflix.

I'm never going to have Netflix in the game...

Also, the struggle is still there in modern life, we're just ignoring it for a while. The materials used to make disposable plastic bags do run out over the long haul.

One Hour One Life Forums

#1 2018-04-28 15:58:13

Tule Decay?

#2 2018-04-28 16:11:00

Re: Tule Decay?

#3 2018-04-28 16:14:13

Re: Tule Decay?

#4 2018-04-28 16:21:44

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#5 2018-04-28 17:09:11

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#6 2018-04-28 17:22:24

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#7 2018-04-28 17:36:25

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#8 2018-04-28 17:39:33

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#9 2018-04-28 17:44:22

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#10 2018-04-28 17:56:35

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#11 2018-04-28 18:05:27

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#12 2018-04-28 19:33:13

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#13 2018-04-28 19:36:14

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#14 2018-04-28 20:03:09

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#15 2018-04-28 23:10:30

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#16 2018-04-29 02:31:13

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#17 2018-04-29 11:32:30

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#18 2018-04-29 16:28:40

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#19 2018-04-29 16:54:24

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#20 2018-04-29 17:17:15

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#21 2018-04-29 18:29:19

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#22 2018-04-30 15:16:45

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#23 2018-04-30 20:27:27

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#24 2018-04-30 20:34:22

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