Well tap out range?

Eve Troll · 2022-04-08 00:28:07

With this constant push west that is killing off towns and disabling the longevity of towns it has me questioning if the tap out range is still necessary. The well tap out system was introduced during the rift. Initally this was necessary after an update that made water far more plentiful and accessible. But since it has me wondering why it still exists. Family wells/homelands were introduced because families of different races were all living in the same town to subvert race restrictions. Jason wanted to "encourage" families to make seperate towns so traveling and trade would be necessary.

But what is well tap out doing to the game and what is its value in the game today?

In short the well tap out radius is forcing families to move further in order to make a new town. This increases the rate in which we move west and limits the ability to create long lasting cities. I think its worth reconsidering this mechanic since banding keeps families from settling too close already and being in an open world makes an infinite amount of new wells accessable. Currently its only utility is to force development of cities and towns to a specific area and forcing players to abandon that town if they wish to keep up with the push west.

If the tap out range was removed it could open up another level of city development where there was old and new sections of the cities. Most importantly it would slow down the progression west and allow families to thrive for longer within a specific area. The access to water would lessen the burden of water production which could make it easier for players to teach and be creative. Helping new players learn and appreciate the game further. There is nothing more damaging to player retention than new players feeling like they're walking on egg shells when trying to learn and making mistakes.

The same could be said for tary spots an iron veins as well.

Last edited by Eve Troll (2022-04-08 07:17:23)

Spoonwood · 2022-04-08 02:34:33

Eve Troll wrote:

But what is well tap out doing to the game and what is its value in the game today?

I once was a white Eve and had my ready well site with 9 stones (someone had moved one), tapped out in a jungle area. I tried to move the family, but the player I moved wasn't all that great. There was another time where tapout messed things up: https://github.com/jasonrohrer/OneLife/issues/752

So, well tapout functions as a way to destroy locations as settable. That's about it. The only benefit lies in that the directional indicators from dry well sites. But, that could conceivably get accomplished by other means, or just get removed, since it doesn't do all that much if you have an expert waystone or can spot signs of civilization.

Eve Troll wrote:

In short the well tap out radius is forcing towns to move further in order to make a new town.

Yes! Sometimes I've run further west as Eve, because I see staked springs. Again, moving further west like that is a negative.

The same holds for tarry spots and iron, yep. Especially if tarry spots didn't tap out, there would exist more oil, and that would probably make it preferable to use the diesel mining pick than a mining pick to get iron due to a lack of hungry work. Also, using the diesel mining pick is more interesting and engaging than using a mining pick with hungry work. Making chisels and using them is also different than needing more food. And travel time would be likely be reduced.

pein · 2022-04-08 16:25:31

there are no towns, the game doesn't know whats a town, there are people and there are items grouped that you call a town

non renewing resources are still bad
resources don't scale with players and activity doesn't really converts into resources.
race restrictions are still bad
trade doesnt exist without currency
giving things for other things would be role playing
stealing things you can access is not only viable but kind of necessary, and Jason did everything he could to enforce it and allow it
people giving things is charity, not trade
people giving you dumb things you don't need it's also not trade
people who can't do things, won't do things, it's not the language gap, I had 2 translators and the ginger chick still didn't understood why she is needed to do it for us, it's bad mechanics, they don't understand in plain english, why would they understand in klingon

the average player doesn't even leave the 30x30 area of the kiln
travelling more than 20 minutes is dumb, how does it makes sense to go that far when you can die and get somewhere else?
also the map is all the same and cities are all the same
single iron and single oil killed the map variety. having more water or iron creates different lives. well, when they don't regenerate, they are fixed and they are always worth the same, then there isn't much to think about it, you could probably calculate for how long is enough. also you can't help but feel when others waste it, it just shortens your time.

players should be always valuable, the more the better. but with non renewing resources mistakes are unrevocable, losing time is like losing resources but lot of activities can't convert time into resources. only composting was somewhat infinite, not really now.

Spoonwood · 2022-04-09 04:49:40

pein wrote:

people who can't do things, won't do things, it's not the language gap, I had 2 translators and the ginger chick still didn't understood why she is needed to do it for us, it's bad mechanics, they don't understand in plain english, why would they understand in klingon

I agree it's not always the language gap. Recently, I made paper before in a place after dropping some bananas out of my backpack, and wrote notes about what I needed. Some black chick took my latex bucket and palm oil bucket cart and put it inside of a desert. Such biome locking of items is not interesting, and at least wasn't stated as intended. Gingers have some reason to do such sometimes, and biome locking of trucks can make sense I think so that they don't disappear to nowhere, but I digress. Fortunately in that case, I noticed that with Hetuw mod it was soon low pop and I could get my cart back and managed to get the sulfur into the latex buckets and make it home. Since they happened in close proximity, it was a good example of how no race restrictions was better.

Also, if I had been able to get the stuff I could have made it back home with more time to have people I could relate to, instead of being an alien in a small village of people who wouldn't do anything for me after I at least brought something, and couldn't relate to.

It's especially strange that Jason talked about personal interactions once regarding race restrictions, because it leads to all this travel time and lack of personal interactions, since people end up ignoring you or not understanding you. Though I haven't played them, I definitely am lead to believe that games with universal chat systems have better things going on than OHOL's dumb system.

pein wrote:

single iron and single oil killed the map variety. having more water or iron creates different lives.

Yeah, towns definitely looked more interesting and more various technology wise before the spring system. It was more interesting overall. I didn't like how the charcoal pump would never break (I thought that should have gotten reserved for the higher tech diesel water pump), but looking back I think that's about all that would have made sense to change.

Temperature overhaul also decreased map variety, since even though desert edges were predominant, you would also seen jungle towns, or people trying to rough it in the grasslands or swamps. Having threats of mosquitoes or snakes for everyone was also more interesting than just having the boar threat of today's current game.

Eve Troll · 2022-04-09 05:38:32

Yea i really miss the old map structure

One Hour One Life Forums

#1 2022-04-08 00:28:07

Well tap out range?

#2 2022-04-08 02:34:33

Re: Well tap out range?

#3 2022-04-08 16:25:31

Re: Well tap out range?

#4 2022-04-09 04:49:40

Re: Well tap out range?

#5 2022-04-09 05:38:32

Re: Well tap out range?

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