Build Cisterns: Economic Stability of Water Storage

Legs · 2020-05-16 21:34:39

Cisterns are one of the most useful types of town infrastructure and they're criminally underused. Every 'finished' kitchen should feature a cistern. Every farm should feature a half dozen or more. Too often all we see are a pathetic couple of cisterns and that's just not enough. Water is life in ohol, and having the ability to stockpile water is what allows towns to survive drought. In almost every life that I spend producing water I find that I'm able to produce much more than I can store. The bottleneck never comes from lack of resources, but lack of storage. Especially now with diesel wells being so easy to grief, the way to survive long term is to exhaust a tarry spot, spend all your fuel at once and store the water in cisterns. The system is just way too vulnerable, when you find a moment of opportunity it's important that players can exploit it to the fullest. Otherwise the engine or the fuel or both will find legs and walk off, leaving the town high and dry.

To provide stability in towns during times when there's nobody to carry them, we need cisterns. As many as possible. Four by four blocks of cisterns surrounding the town well in place of ripped up berry bushes. Take a horse cart full of baskets, gather stones and limestone then build all the cisterns. The well in a mid-high tech town only runs rarely, so it's important that when it does a whole ocean of water can flow out. Build so many cisterns we can use up all the iron, all the kerosene at once and store the water for later.

pein · 2020-05-16 22:26:56

when you build your Newcomen you got to have cisterns, even before, like just empty the wells into 3-4 cisterns and start upgrading, you already need those tires anyway

one in the kitchen can help as well, even one near the Newcomen hammer, or one aside for wild soil and milkweed

when you take over other camps, might happen that a new wells site pops up closer than 160 then a cistern and a single bucket and a bowl can empty it, upgrade to advanced and empty that too, then you can move the cistern stones home , you lose one plaster but still worth for fast empty well, best to take some kid to do it and you just get home the water with buckets

Coconut Fruit · 2020-05-16 23:47:32

Yeah, having many cisterns is very useful.

I think it would be smart to have only a few of them in a town to not waste space, and make a real big amount of them just a little bit out of town, just for the water storage that wouldn't waste space in the town, so we could easily bring water to main cisterns from those whenever needed.

Coconut Fruit · 2020-05-17 00:29:24

Also, it could be a good strategy to not use kerosene on diesel water pump at all until near wells aren't exhausted (200 tiles away from main well).
We don't use newcomen stage wells out of town, because of how much work it would require to make all the charcoal, but upgrading these wells to kerosene newcomen and then using kerosene on them would be very efficient and would require very little work - of course if we have rubber tires. This would effectively double the amount of water we get from kerosene with just a little bit more work.

Imagine bringing back home cart of 8 tanks of water with 8 uses each in only one go - big water storage would be very useful then.

pein · 2020-05-17 00:39:18

I mean you can't waste much space, most I saw was the sw city from the 8 day rift, they had like 15 for their city and 15 for randos
still can't build a pen out of it xD

not sure about the gate changes, you still gonna need a gate and 2 walls to protect from animals
had this setup for just that:

The grape can be something else, like a loom or painted wall, wall box

sensible use of water would always be bread and pies, just outside the bakery would be good and this setup protects you from animals entering (or exiting)

generally, you want a horse fence near a cistern, it can be used to make a gate later on and break auto orient
or just break the endless 3x3 farms that will be planted with berries anyway

antking:]# · 2020-05-17 01:58:20

Economy in real life = the trade of goods for money

Economy in OHOL = water

Coconut Fruit · 2020-05-17 17:08:13

I made a little water storage place. How do you like it?

pein · 2020-05-17 19:06:23

no fence to it never will be used

testo · 2020-05-17 19:50:21

Coconut Fruit wrote:

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/ … _00_34.png
I made a little water storage place. How do you like it?

Seriously? I have trouble figuring out a worst design and location. For starters six of your cisterns can only be accessed from one tile. Second, it is completely out of place and third they form a wall. There should be a rule of never putting cisterns next to eachother.

Legs · 2020-05-17 19:54:49

What would you all consider the optimal placement for cisterns then?

Personally I think they should be as close to the well as reasonably possible.

testo · 2020-05-17 20:05:19

Legs wrote:

What would you all consider the optimal placement for cisterns then?
Personally I think they should be as close to the well as reasonably possible.

Close to the well obviously, you want to make the bucket transfer as fast and simple as possible. I mean at the very least one of your cisterns should be at two (or one gap) tile distance to allow the well to be emptied fast while spending kero. The others can be chain linked at one tile gap to allow the bucket transfer without moving your character.

Coconut Fruit · 2020-05-17 20:15:57

testo wrote:

Coconut Fruit wrote:
https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/ … _00_34.png
I made a little water storage place. How do you like it?
Seriously? I have trouble figuring out a worst design and location. For starters six of your cisterns can only be accessed from one tile. Second, it is completely out of place and third they form a wall. There should be a rule of never putting cisterns next to eachother.

There were 5 full cisterns inside the town, these that I made had to be for any excess water and not for regular use, that's why they are a little bit outside the town, to not block space and moving.
Once the cisterns inside the town get empty, someone could get a cart with buckets and get water from those wells and fill main cisterns, would take only a while and the benefit of this would be the space saved.
Isn't it a good idea? Would you prefer to spam many cisterns inside the town and block so much space?

tocal · 2020-05-17 20:26:01

I like it, but I would extend the pine needle road to the cisterns to help people find it.

testo · 2020-05-18 00:05:57

Coconut Fruit wrote:

Isn't it a good idea? Would you prefer to spam many cisterns inside the town and block so much space?

I don´t know that´s on you, I was just answering your question because it shocked me that I genuinely couldn´t figure out a worst design.

Maybe if you put them in a 6x6 square with a closed area inside? Yeah that is worst. It can also be a solid 4x5 rectangle with 6 unaccesable cisterns inside.

Coconut Fruit · 2020-05-18 00:38:12

Say what you want, but it works perfectly and it doesn't waste space, I will continue making cisterns with this kind of design in other towns too.

Had another life in blacks, actually 2 lives. They had kerosene, so I decided to make another well 300 tiles west (was first natural spring that I found, and was close to browns). Got all the water from shallow and deep well to the town, then upgraded it to kerosene newcomen pump. Got a few tanks of kero there and got lots of water from it. Sadly, was pretty unlucky and it got exhausted after only about 25 uses (while estimated number of uses is 41). Still got lots of water.

Then I went to browns give them 3 tanks of kerosene, they are pretty close to blacks, they have tons of rubber tires, I used them in my newcomen pump.
But when I went to their well, I was in shock. Someone made cisterns around the well. This looks really awful. Was it you testo, haha?

Last edited by Coconut Fruit (2020-05-18 00:41:13)

Spoonwood · 2020-05-18 01:24:38

Coconut Fruit wrote:

Then I went to browns give them 3 tanks of kerosene, they are pretty close to blacks, they have tons of rubber tires, I used them in my newcomen pump.
But when I went to their well, I was in shock. Someone made cisterns around the well. This looks really awful. Was it you testo, haha?

The bottom cisterns could conceivably could have been lower a tile (would guess digging up the berry bushes to do that wouldn't have been practical), and the leftmost cisterns a tile to the left also. But, overall, that looks like an efficient design to me. Would be quick to get the water into cisterns with that design, and *full* cisterns can't get destroyed.

If engines couldn't get scrapped, or moved off of an exhausted deep well, the bottom property fence wouldn't seem desireable at all.

Last edited by Spoonwood (2020-05-18 01:25:47)

Coconut Fruit · 2020-05-18 01:32:38

Blocking 25 tiles in the center of the town doesn't feel efficient to me.
If you have a cart and empty buckets you can transfer water very fast. I feel like there is no point having more than only a few cisterns in the town that are actually used regularly and the excess of water having in a place that doesn't block movement and useful space. Transferring water from the water storage to main cisterns sounds more efficient to me and requires very little work (if we have cart and empty buckets) that has to be done really rarely.

Spoonwood · 2020-05-18 03:31:04

Coconut Fruit wrote:

Blocking 25 tiles in the center of the town doesn't feel efficient to me.

Ok, you stated a feeling. That's all you did. That doesn't imply anything at all.

Coconut Fruit wrote:

Transferring water from the water storage to main cisterns sounds more efficient to me and requires very little work (if we have cart and empty buckets) that has to be done really rarely.

It's not more efficient to transfer water around town to cisterns. Really, cisterns aren't efficient period. They require moving water into them, and then taking water out of them. That's three uses of a bucket, getting water out of a pump, putting it into a cistern, and then removing it from the cistern (and someone has to have an empty bucket... I know I've seen players who didn't understand a bucket had to be empty to remove water, and I think I didn't understand that myself) plus some movement. It's more efficient to just take a bucket from the pump and throw it on the ground. It's only one movement, and one use of a bucket, getting water out of the pump. And it's less that can and will go wrong in terms of water removal.

The above design is more efficient, because it cuts down on the time it takes to get water into cisterns.

This is an argument against Legs's point, since from what I hear if water doesn't get stockpiled, the location ends up with less water overall due to griefing.

pein · 2020-05-18 07:00:10

You get the logic soon:
-well has the Newcomen on the right so you got to go around that, so you can place it either left or top, probably bottom will be farming area, if you can, floor it down so they won't do that stupid well on middle setup, that is only good for the first average 134 bowls of water which is a very short time, after that you are using buckets, and having stupid bushes in the way, won't help on the long stage which is Newcomen era
when it has two spacing, you can simply dump water to the next cistern, takes 20 clicks to send it further

it is possible that you will require outside help so a horse fence is useful nearby, maybe you want to help others, that's also a possibility, or carry water for the oil making

I would definitely put one close to bakery, one for engine makers, maybe one for milkweed farm, those are also good cause noobs won't find them and advanced players can have some water hidden from bushes
any case you want a fence next to each cistern

And ofc if you want to build 20 of them, here is a good system:

As I always said, if it blocks movement it's a wall, if it's a wall it can make a pen You don't have to but might as well, place them in a circle and connect up with hitching posts, first just one for each three on corners then connect all up. Or a fancy way, put gates on sides, then that opens and you can 2 clicks unload water from a hitched horse
has to be 4 wide or you can't put gates near cisterns, that would be 2 step more to unload

Abrar · 2020-05-18 08:10:44

Coconut Fruit wrote:

Say what you want, but it works perfectly and it doesn't waste space, I will continue making cisterns with this kind of design in other towns too.
Had another life in blacks, actually 2 lives. They had kerosene, so I decided to make another well 300 tiles west (was first natural spring that I found, and was close to browns). Got all the water from shallow and deep well to the town, then upgraded it to kerosene newcomen pump. Got a few tanks of kero there and got lots of water from it. Sadly, was pretty unlucky and it got exhausted after only about 25 uses (while estimated number of uses is 41). Still got lots of water.
https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/ … _45_13.png
https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/ … _15_37.png
https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/ … _15_46.png

Then I went to browns give them 3 tanks of kerosene, they are pretty close to blacks, they have tons of rubber tires, I used them in my newcomen pump.
But when I went to their well, I was in shock. Someone made cisterns around the well. This looks really awful. Was it you testo, haha?
https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/ … _18_29.png

I was the one who made the Bison family cisterns surrounding the well haha. I didn't have time to make it look pretty; I just wanted to prevent griefing Every town should do this.

pein · 2020-05-18 08:19:53

I was the one reviving that town with the nameless black family, just realized after seeing the triple cistern on the top

Legs · 2020-05-18 18:40:56

Controversial opinion: plant a ring of 8 berry bushes surrounding a cistern in the sheep pen. Dig up all other berries in town.

Cement the idea that berries are sheep food by placing them within the pen.

tocal · 2020-05-18 19:09:54

They are also good for pies and compost, but I get your meaning.

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#1 2020-05-16 21:34:39

Build Cisterns: Economic Stability of Water Storage

#2 2020-05-16 22:26:56

Re: Build Cisterns: Economic Stability of Water Storage

#3 2020-05-16 23:47:32

Re: Build Cisterns: Economic Stability of Water Storage

#4 2020-05-17 00:29:24

Re: Build Cisterns: Economic Stability of Water Storage

#5 2020-05-17 00:39:18

Re: Build Cisterns: Economic Stability of Water Storage

#6 2020-05-17 01:58:20

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#7 2020-05-17 17:08:13

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#8 2020-05-17 19:06:23

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#9 2020-05-17 19:50:21

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#10 2020-05-17 19:54:49

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#11 2020-05-17 20:05:19

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#12 2020-05-17 20:15:57

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#13 2020-05-17 20:26:01

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#14 2020-05-18 00:05:57

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