Yum Station Design Proposal

tocal · 2020-05-14 07:23:19

The thinking behind town layouts needs to be revisited. all towns seem to have a grid area for farms, a building for bakery next to nursery, and separate areas for forging, holding animals, etc. With the new focus on yum (and the need to not have to walk across town multiple times to do something productive), I think a new layout philosophy should be considered.

Layout Goals:
* People should be able to yum as quickly as possible without having to search out or make arcane foods. All the yum foods need to be easily eaten all in one place.
* Reduce the distance traveled cost to do simple items such as farm, cook, and serve food.
* Reduce overfarming. There is a serious cost to overfarming. Water runs out fast and people eat crops instead of finished foods.
* Increase the ease of achieving food diversity. Instead of making 10 stew pots and frantically having a late stage town on the brink of starvation constantly, lets make it easy to make food and easy to teach new players how to make it.
* Reduce space footprint. Take as little space as possible while getting as big a bang for your buck as possible.
* Increase produced food quantity as well as diversity. Each type of yum food should be about 20 bites deep. That way, it's easy to restock before that unique food runs out.
* layout should be achievable in stages instead of all at once. That allows benefit to be derived from the yum station while it's being completed.

Ok, so here is what stage 1 looks like:
yum_station1
This is a 12! point yum station already. You get 1 yum for 3 liquids * 3 containers = 9 yum (broth, skim, whole milk * bowl, bottle, pouch) and 1 yum each for green beans, popcorn, and berry in bowl. The 3 foods on the table are there because they all can be eaten right from the bowl, making it easy to eat from the table. Also, all the foods here are pretty efficient if you eat them each only once. The one tricky part is making sure you harvest the green beans with a bowl before they dry out.

Stage 2 adds in bread and fried foods:
yum_station2
At first, it will be a +2 yum with bread and buttered bread. If you can get oil, it will quickly become +2 more with corn chips and french fries. If you can get ketchup and salsa going from a different farming area, then that's another +2, bringing this stage of the yum station up to +6. In total, the yum station provides 18 yum now.
Things to consider: I forgot to include shears for the chips. You'll need shears. The oven is here to bake bread. Keep it close to make it easier to make without having to carry bowls of wheat over to the main kitchen. You can also cook palm kernels here to make palm oil. The space under the wheat is to allow for easier threshing. You might have to hold off on making chips until you set up the mesa kitchen... if so, just fill all the tables with bread and buttered bread to start out. The tables are offset from the main thoroughfare because the foods on the tables can't be eaten from the bowl. They'd have to be taken off table and set on floor anyway before being eaten. For those who don't farm potatoes, to get potato tubers you have to take a raw potato and place it in a bowl of water. After it sprouts, take it out of the bowl and cut the sprouted potato with a knife or sharp flint. Now it can be planted. Don't forget to put the second dirt pile on the young potato plants.

Stage 3 adds in a mesa kitchen:
yum_station3
This will at first be a +2 yum improvement with bean tacos and burritos. If you have pigs already, you can get to +3 yum with pork tacos, bringing the total yum of this station up to 21.
Things to consider: The tables are offset for the same reason the fried foods are offset. For those who don't know, the forge and limestone are for the mesa dough. The stacks of bowls are to allow you to make a bunch of mesa doughs at once... it's very bowl intensive. The stacks of plates are for stacking corn and flour tortillas once they are cooked on the hot stone. Also for making beans. Before you put the hot stone on the coals, cook your soaked beans and possibly your carnitas. When the fire is just started, you can make popcorn from dried cob in bowl (not corn kernels!)

Stage 4 adds in the pig pen and carnitas tables:
yum_station3
The carnitas will add +1 yum, bringing the total yum of the yum station up to 22. If you eat fresh corn and baked potatoes (which I would advise against), it brings the yum station up to 24 points. That's more than most people get in a lifetime, and they haven't even eaten the easy foods yet! (I'm talking about crops and pies). The picture also includes some items I left out of previous pictures, like a shovel for the potatoes, a skewer to whip the cream into butter, a stone to make flour from wheat, and a sharp flint to cut crops, make the potato tubers, and turn dried corn in bowl into corn kernels in bowl.

The space under the pig pen could be used to increase the yum station even further, by just stacking food there. Whatever's available. I would suggest turkeys or boxes of pies. The crops (pepper, onion, carrot, tomato) should be put in backpacks for babies so they can carry some food around with them. The main kitchen would still cook the pies, mutton and turkeys. The bread oven could probably cook some turkeys too if nearby.

One of the great things about this setup is that only a few people could maintain the station because everything's close together and about 20 bites deep (except for the carnitas). The only input to the station would be water into the cistern, kindling, salsa/ketchup, and dirt. This area could do its own compost with a carrot patch and some sheep dung, but I'm sure someone could carry those items in for the rare occasions when a new soil pile is needed.

The only tech that is kinda high up there for the yum station is the glassware. Try to scavenge the bottles from other towns or if you're the blacks, make some bottles yourself. it's best to have 3 bottles, but you can get by with 1. it just takes a lot longer for someone to yum up.

I implemented stage 1 of the yum station at a town, and these were the challenges I faced:

* Noobs will try to take the pouches with liquid in them. New payers don't get the idea of yumming. Their instinct is to put any portable food into their backpack to stave off the early death they know is coming. Experienced players need to teach the younger ones how to do it.
* Due to the great food diversity provided here, many players won't even know some of the things here are food. When I put up the yum station, over 10 minutes only one person ate from the popcorn/green beans/berry bowl table.
* New players might not know how to eat the food. Again, it's up to experienced players to teach people about the foods and how to eat them.
* It's hard to get a dedicated amount of space for a large 16x14 project that will take a few lifetimes to complete without someone using that space for their own project. I suggest putting up the pine floors, tables, and fences first (for each stage). people usually won't take bowls and buckets that are at the cow pen or if they have food in them. Just be patient.

Subtle benefits:
* It should be easier to teach new players how to do the game if everything is close together and they can watch it all unfold. I think it would be more rewarding for older players to maintain this yum station because they could literally do it all in a single lifetime.
* If we can move some of the food out of the kitchen, it will make it a lot easier to work there. If the kitchen can be dedicated to pies, mutton, turkey, feast tables and the like, then there will be a lot more space in there to work.
* We can have smaller farming areas for the other crops now. A town will still need a berry/carrot area for compost, pies, sheep and rabbits. We'd still need beans, pumpkin, squash, corn for stew. We'd still need peppers, onions, tomatoes for salsa. Hopefully though, those areas can be reduced to more reasonable sizes. I hate working on a huge farm because it takes so long to run everywhere to get water, tools, etc. Also, it's a huge water sink.

Hopefully this yum station design proposal gets some traction and people start implementing it. If I missed something or the design can be improved, please let me know. At the very least, next time I start this yumming station at a town, hopefully someone will have read this post and therefore know not to take all the pouches .

voy178 · 2020-05-14 08:45:36

What do you guys use to simulate and build scenarios?

On topic, it's bold to assume that things will stay this organised on such a small designated area.

Gomez · 2020-05-14 18:35:55

Keeping it organized is a big task, my job is typically dining room attendant no joke.

Rabbit pouches are best kept in baskets with three filled to keep people from running off with them. Also a stack of extras so in total 9 rabbit pouches is advisable, 3 each for broth, whole and skim.

So how you stake out dining is like this you claim turf around crocs. In this example you are missing three sisters soup, the kraut is optional as requires gingers. The idea behind wall of cooked soups is you can create a square of food that immovable and place portable food around the stable food source. That makes it reliable in food shortages, griefers will attack poprcelain in starvation attempts if there is soup. Guard the bowls.

Three sisters is important because even late generation a bowl of three sisters with two servings can fill you hunger bar most the time. Real good design, however it might be efficient to have farms close to the stations but it also generates work clutter and leaves little room for trash. Lets be practical people are gonna dump unwanted items all around there, especially when number one carrot farmer turns those empty farms into a carrot bonanaza.....yes I've had that happen to my dining room. LMFAO!

Aesthetics or making something visually pleasing goes a long way to preserving order...I used to think it was a waste of time. The best tree kindle farm I ever saw back in the rift was a dude who made a bunch of trees to make kindling for town and turned into in a shrine to his dead mother. People didn't cut those trees down unless it was a willful act of destruction.

Last edited by Gomez (2020-05-14 18:50:00)

miskas · 2020-05-14 18:58:55

Wow Gomez very well spoken here , yes beuty in design matters!
Also what a great idea to make a wall of food with stews to protect the dificult yum foods from hungry munchers attacks.

Btw just googled your job description. We need more people like you in OHOL , show the game to your co-workers man!

tocal · 2020-05-14 22:52:04

voy178 wrote:

What do you guys use to simulate and build scenarios?

pein helped me out. I'm going to pay him back when I have some time to build out the image library.

voy178 wrote:

On topic, it's bold to assume that things will stay this organised on such a small designated area.

I strongly agree. This is the greatest weakness of this design. It's the most efficient for consuming the foods as fast as possible, but it also gets disorganized very quickly if people don't put things back. I think I'll release a new version with some design/security in place.

@ Gomez, like all the ideas. I'll try to incorporate into v2. I was trying to keep 3 sisters stew somewhere else because I don't consider that a yum food, more of a base hunger food. Could be done though.

pein · 2020-05-14 23:19:05

Was a while someone asked for it, kinda a year ago? helps me remind to get the next version of the program also to delete some unneeded sprites and organize it

we figured out that it's better on the mac since it has a search feature, so pdf versions could be searched with it
sadly no such thing on windows, but I set up a group based system where you can search on the subcategory
you can put items in multiple categories like boxes are wood but also containers, there is space for 4x7 on my resolution, so around 28 items without scrolling

limiting the space can work for cleanup, people limit it anyways, by dropping all kinds of shit there, but if there is a fence then they won't go in just to drop stuff, so once you clean it it can stay clean.

Obviously kitchens are filled with shit sometimes, and boxes used for different things like clothes
in my pen design, the box was intended for the meat, they used for wheat, the tables were intended for food and stacks of bowls/plates, they used for clothes and medicals
in a way it made sense, they had no other storage

I had a plan for a half-closed yum station, but some asshole kept dropping me as a kid then using knife and bow to try to kill me, obviously, it didn't work but he was annoying, so I locked him up with 8 branches
there comes a little idiot baby who just born, and she kept telling people that it's a prison
she spends more than 40 years to ruin the place and steal the boards and shafts from there, hiding tools and such

The top one is not the most functional, maybe good as anti-bear shelter, I designed it before the new gates, probably you could put gates on it for aesthetics but very heavy on the board usage and not much space to work inside it

the second one is compact and looks good, also safe from animals if you put the stew on sides, as you see is quite impractical as a prison without th cisterns, 4 exits and shafts are not the best way to kill innocents
probably 1 wider or narrower so it has a centre. maybe wider, put a gate and 2 horse fences to gather stuff or make it look like a triangle or a Y for yum xD

Last edited by pein (2020-05-14 23:34:28)

tocal · 2020-05-15 01:15:34

Ok, this is my updated yum station with buildings to preserve space and floor tiles to imply function. The stone floors are a little difficult to see what's on them, so maybe use some other flooring. The stews would go along the west wall of the milk yum building.the empty tables could hold exotic foods, like wine, ice cream, more pouches, etc.

yum_station9

tocal · 2020-05-15 01:20:09

pein wrote:

we figured out that it's better on the mac since it has a search feature, so pdf versions could be searched with it
sadly no such thing on windows, but I set up a group based system where you can search on the subcategory
you can put items in multiple categories like boxes are wood but also containers, there is space for 4x7 on my resolution, so around 28 items without scrolling

Is there a way to organize the images that they're searchable on both mac and pc? Like, pdf files in a directory structure that makes sense? Does converting the images to pdf make it harder for you to use them on a pc? I'd like a way of organizing the OHOL images so that they're universally searchable.

pein · 2020-05-15 07:31:11

Solo pictures would make it searchable, but have too many groups defeats the purpose, the dropdown gets huge and then you can't use the other groups effectively for other reasons like numbers or signs or keyboard pictures
so far if I use it, I need groups, like you used walls and floors, plants and containers, foods, iron(tools) and parts like branches, kindling
now you can put tables in different groups like container, wood, walls
or buckets into container, wood, water
most of the items have these properties anyway, what is made of what is used for

had the other category for bloody knife and corpses and crown and such, which are not really needed anyway so no reason to have with other stuff together, same goes for stuff like radio or aeroplane or whatever we rarely make

pdf version does not have any problem, can be bigger in size, but I optimized those backgrounds for the size of pictures on onetech so not much reason to have it any bigger, not sure how many pictures there are, having all of them, renaming then categorizing, converting after

the only downside of pdf I see is no preview for it (at least with the program I prefer to view my files Honeyview, might be in other programs like IrfanView or others but I like Honeyview look and options)
others might use a picture pack for other programs and this program itself has the ability to batch convert pdf

also might be better for each person to create their own groups they can remember so I guess downloading and renaming files in picture format would be the best action you could do

Last edited by pein (2020-05-15 07:31:22)

miskas · 2020-05-15 08:41:04

I didnt got it , what program do you use? Is it Paint and you just copy paste sprites or something?

pein · 2020-05-15 13:32:56

its top-secret, come to discord and I tell ya

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#1 2020-05-14 07:23:19

Yum Station Design Proposal

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