New Iron System Boring; Old Iron System More Interesting

Spoonwood · 2020-05-13 22:38:56

I made a camp this weekend that made it up to a kerosene newcomen pump, a sheep pen, a cow pen, I slapped an engine on a collasped iron mine, and used it twice. The new iron system with everything centralized in one or a small few places is boring in comparison to the older iron system.

With the older system running around provided a sense of danger since getting bite by wolves (or eaten by bears) was more of a possibility, and iron wasn't always in some predictable spot (or small collection of spots). Before the boring topographical ring map system, when biomes were randomly generated, you might see different patterns of landforms also. There existed more of a sense of danger. I even remember being the daughter of Eve once, thinking I would see her other than as I had in my childhood, and then ended up seeing later that she died to a wolf bite, and that was kind of interesting: http://lineage.onehouronelife.com/serve … id=2982542 And running around to a bunch of different locations more often than not is interesting than going to the same location over and over again.

Hungry work, which abounds with the new iron system, in general is also just boring. As another example, it was much more fun to hack up a swamp before hungry work, than under the new system where one has to stop and eat every so often.

Last edited by Spoonwood (2020-05-14 00:57:46)

Gomez · 2020-05-14 00:46:20

Agreed, also could abuse it and farm eves for iron in theory. Not sure how that practical would be tho. Didn't seem to establish iron scarcity either, only when expanding without preparation is it scarce.

Last edited by Gomez (2020-05-14 00:48:24)

tocal · 2020-05-14 02:17:12

Yea, I liked the old system better too. I would argue that the new system makes iron more abundant, not less. I think we should have the old system with some randomly occurring deep iron mines. I also like the idea of iron mines randomly giving different ores... once the mine dries up, it only gives stones.

Jamie · 2020-05-14 05:43:08

Not bad for somebody who dose not play.

Coconut Fruit · 2020-05-14 08:10:31

It is boring to you because you don't play on bigserver2. Infinite iron would be more boring.

tocal wrote:

I would argue that the new system makes iron more abundant, not less.

True, we still have technically infinite iron, maybe not infinite but there is more of it than we need. And that is because we use dead families' veins. It's easy to find dead villages because of dry natural springs mechanics, and once we find a dead village, we just check east and west from the well if there is still an iron vein, in many cases there is at least one.

Spoonwood · 2020-05-14 11:36:44

Jamie wrote:

Not bad for somebody who dose not play.

My hash is: 9a0589cb673446fd534812d43cde1913f30b256a You're welcome to check the lifelogs to confirm that I played... specifically on server12 in the past week (when I said 'I' in the original post, I originally meant that I had done everything in that location... never had any children). End of Saturday, Sunday, and I think a little on Monday for the above if I recall correctly.

Spoonwood · 2020-05-14 11:51:43

Coconut Fruit wrote:

It is boring to you because you don't play on bigserver2. Infinite iron would be more boring.

2 other people chimed in here, and said that they more or less felt the same way. So your assertion that the server played on is very strange, since it goes against the evidence that has gotten provided.

Also, I don't know why you say that inifinite iron would be more boring as if such can't exist. As long as you make it to a diesel engine, and it isn't destroyed, and you'll get substantially more iron from using a diesel iron mine over time than doing an oil rig, iron is infinite. A single tank of kerosene can yield a net of 30 more iron (6 per charge, minus 1 for the chisel needed to use it).

And no, infinite iron is not more boring than finite iron. Finite iron by itself (excluding finite oil) could make it so that cars and planes end up as too counter-productive to bother with, since iron is needed for other things, and diesel engines cost a fair amount of iron. A town with 10 cars, even if sitting around, would be more interesting than a town with none. Finite iron is not very technological, limiting in possibility, and boring in the end, because one can run out of things to do. Infinite iron is interesting, because it has so much more potential, and has so much more opportunity to it.

Last edited by Spoonwood (2020-05-14 11:54:24)

pein · 2020-05-14 12:48:45

new system is generic af

it removes a good element compared to the old system

I think it's a major flaw, remember your first hours? you are barely able to navigate, most players consider the camp the items on the ground connected to each other, when you learn how to go around your camp, you get interested what lays beyond the horizons.
You hear that the map is huge and other cities are out there, wast riches and more resources.
Except it's not. The map is generic, all the same, nothing really worth much, water and oil is limited, iron is limited, biomes are limited by race.

The 2d perspective gives a good potential for a strategic game, 3d offers more pvp or pve elements and skill-based combat, visuals, but 2d was always focusing on strategics.
And civilization on a high level is strategy. Just look at the games that started 2d and went for 3d. Ag of empires III was not as popular as the second. The 4th goes back to 2d view since the aoe2 remakes had major popularity and fanbase, they even want to start esports now.
But I can also say that stronghold crusader was way more popular than the new stronghold games, their online game was also 2d, and their new game will go back to the roots. The other game I can mention, it's Desperados. The first attempt of them making the game 3d, was a major fail, their later release has both 2d and 3d, switching between them is good, there are some cases you want to go 3d and win a 1v1 bu still more enjoyable playing it 2d.

There are a lot of 2d games that are popular and for a reason, they are fun to play. Civilization series, endless legend, etc.
They are also called 4x games. 4x stands for 'explore, expand, exploit, and exterminate'.

Explore: going out in the wilderness can reward you for resources. Expand: using the resources you can expand the city. Exploit: after finding resources, you use them up to create more tech, army whatever. Exterminate: when you find other civilizations you fight for the control of the world.

Here is the problem with ohol: removing the element of exploration, means exploiting those resources is not based on skill or decisions.
Exploration is also nerfed since you aren't limited to leave your homeland but you are limited to make a new outpost, you are limited to get more iron, you are limited to find things outside. this, and the removal of engines from wells, made old towns useless, it takes way more resource investment to revive them then to make a new place viable.
Also, the exploitation of resources is not your choice, the eves leave behind some iron and you can gather it, if they die out early it means others can take over their outpost, but this is like rewarding someone else for others bad choices. Back before, we could make a new outpost and have resources and was our choice, our reward, as a multiplayer game, kinda fails on the promise of having choices that matter. Because a lot of things are not a choice and not something you could change. Meme score is random, leadership is kinda random, people die and around 50-55 you might become a leader if no one is manipulating that artificially, but right now no one is using it even.

Jason said multiple times that he doesn't want to be similar to other games (while adding dung bucket just like don't starve). But now I'm talking about a genre not a game. At least it had the possibility to be a 4x game, now the choices he made removed that. Lot of us knew the game is good, has a lot of potentials, but the changes remove more and more potential and it became a generic grid-based water system, a generic grid-based oil, generic grid and city-based iron system. And I don't like to be affected by others choices and still forced to help them.

When you were able to move 40 tiles and make a new town, you could make something nice there and leave others behind who were wasting resources and made a bad logistic system. It's also very unnatural and unrealistic, that you go further in the world but others affect your ability to find iron or water.

It's basically another thing Jason did to enforce his vision of slow-paced boring drama making intention-based playstyle and nerf veterans, nerf certain playstyles.

You got to put up the question, why do even have an unlimited map when we sit in a 100x100 box, people don't really go out of that, you can die and get elsewhere so travel doesn't really matter, but we got no tech to have faster travel to others or cartography or at least a minimap.
Realistically you won't make roads long enough to matter. And even if you do is not something that worth the effort. you need 2-3 hours to connect up 600 tiles, cities can die, the server can be reset.

So the overall problem is that choices don't matter and there are no goals, no renewable resources, no higher-tech. All we ge is nerfs and enforced gameplay of a slow and generic city building.

Arcurus · 2020-05-14 13:40:23

pein wrote:

...
So the overall problem is that choices don't matter and there are no goals, no renewable resources, no higher-tech. All we ge is nerfs and enforced gameplay of a slow and generic city building.

i wonder why there is not a common used alternative game play server maintained by the community which is wildly used? there is 2hol, but it also does not look very much promising, is it simply a lack of players there or what is the reason?

some structures like mountains / rivers / oceans which give some structure to the endless map, plus removing all the grid stuff and artificial limitations would be great to encourage exploration and migration again.

Is it a lack of payers to start it of?

Last edited by Arcurus (2020-05-14 13:43:12)

OminousBladeBlank · 2020-05-14 20:14:25

I will contribute nothing more than saying I completely agree with the thesis ofthis post. The game is becoming more boring with all the limitations like homesickness, family resources, etc...

pein · 2020-05-17 13:46:26

to be fair, I'm amongst the players who don't mind a bit of extra hardness to the game. and there are some others. now you can talk about Dodge, but i had runs where overpopulation was killing people, and the only person doing useful work was dodge, and picked him out of 30+ people to inherit my shit, not even once, but twice in a row without knowing who he is.

Most of the alternative modes offer an easier gameplay which is not necessarily good.

Most of us wants to play with many others, its more fun that way, sure it can be a problem having too many people, i remember things like clayton family had 97 people in the same place, it was crazy, stupid, but also hilarious.

any mod requires quite a lot of technical knowledge so people won't get here by accident, i mean the main server just drops you on bs2 and chances are everyone else is there, you just fire up the official game and start

the other thing is balancing, most of the modders still use the same engine, it's only capable of doing the same thing as the original client, quite funny that discarding parts of the game makes it better
still you would need to re-learn the game for all the new food and items and such

i still got high hopes for PXshadow, he has a different client and might have extra options, and he listens to good ideas

testo · 2020-05-17 14:49:56

Coconut Fruit wrote:

It is boring to you because you don't play on bigserver2. Infinite iron would be more boring.
tocal wrote:
I would argue that the new system makes iron more abundant, not less.
True, we still have technically infinite iron, maybe not infinite but there is more of it than we need. And that is because we use dead families' veins. It's easy to find dead villages because of dry natural springs mechanics, and once we find a dead village, we just check east and west from the well if there is still an iron vein, in many cases there is at least one.

I love when people refute others just because of hate. New iron system is boring because every new Eve with a well site gets on average about 200 fresh iron over the map in a 400x400 square. Thats about 20 of the older veins. On a fixed grid. Not just that, because the new untapout feature allows for several primary locations in the same 400x400 square grid. If the Eves where not looking for perfect spots everytime we could fit 8 primary locations in the same square. Yes that would mean each 400x400 square of the map could produce about 1600 iron.

Somewhere I alredy said that hungry work is boring because it is grindy. It just adds a food constrain but nothing interesting out of it. But it is not the worst mechanic to blame, the old system with hungry work would still be more insteresting. So yeah spoon is totally right.

One Hour One Life Forums

#1 2020-05-13 22:38:56

New Iron System Boring; Old Iron System More Interesting

#2 2020-05-14 00:46:20

Re: New Iron System Boring; Old Iron System More Interesting

#3 2020-05-14 02:17:12

Re: New Iron System Boring; Old Iron System More Interesting

#4 2020-05-14 05:43:08

Re: New Iron System Boring; Old Iron System More Interesting

#5 2020-05-14 08:10:31

Re: New Iron System Boring; Old Iron System More Interesting

#6 2020-05-14 11:36:44

Re: New Iron System Boring; Old Iron System More Interesting

#7 2020-05-14 11:51:43

Re: New Iron System Boring; Old Iron System More Interesting

#8 2020-05-14 12:48:45

Re: New Iron System Boring; Old Iron System More Interesting

#9 2020-05-14 13:40:23

Re: New Iron System Boring; Old Iron System More Interesting

#10 2020-05-14 20:14:25

Re: New Iron System Boring; Old Iron System More Interesting

#11 2020-05-17 13:46:26

Re: New Iron System Boring; Old Iron System More Interesting

#12 2020-05-17 14:49:56

Re: New Iron System Boring; Old Iron System More Interesting

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