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#1 2020-03-29 07:08:17

Dodge
Member
Registered: 2018-08-27
Posts: 2,324

Update broken cant get more iron

Cant get more iron probably missing a transition

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#2 2020-03-29 07:19:36

fug
Member
Registered: 2019-08-21
Posts: 1,004

Re: Update broken cant get more iron

Good job encouraging Jason without checking transitions. Glad he listened to someone who wouldnt double check him smile


Worlds oldest SID baby.

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#3 2020-03-29 07:40:21

Dodge
Member
Registered: 2018-08-27
Posts: 2,324

Re: Update broken cant get more iron

fug wrote:

Good job encouraging Jason without checking transitions. Glad he listened to someone who wouldnt double check him smile

What?

As a reminder i never had the idea of "muddy veins" someone else did.

Oh right he listened to you when he nerfed the muddy veins for outposts smile

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#4 2020-03-29 07:47:13

fug
Member
Registered: 2019-08-21
Posts: 1,004

Re: Update broken cant get more iron

Lel. You argued against any reasonable ideas for the update as usual instead of three different people against the update. Please keep suggesting shitty updates to Jason so we keep seeing awful updates.

Last edited by fug (2020-03-29 07:47:35)


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#5 2020-03-29 07:55:20

Dodge
Member
Registered: 2018-08-27
Posts: 2,324

Re: Update broken cant get more iron

fug wrote:

Lel. You argued against any reasonable ideas for the update as usual instead of three different people against the update. Please keep suggesting shitty updates to Jason so we keep seeing awful updates.

No idea what you are talking about, can you refresh my memory and give me an example of "reasonable ideas".

As a reminder i was not for this update and always for adding islands and oceans.

If by "reasonnable ideas" you mean REEEEEE dont do this dont do that then you might reconsider

Also currently it's a bug and not part of what the update should be.

"Please keep suggesting shitty updates to Jason so we keep seeing awful updates."

fug like i said before this was not suggested by me.

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#6 2020-03-29 07:58:29

fug
Member
Registered: 2019-08-21
Posts: 1,004

Re: Update broken cant get more iron

You suggested rifts, then rifts 2.0. I asked Jason for contents instead of nerfs and you suggested "islands" for muh scarcity. I'm glad someone is out here licking Jason's balls so the bad content can continue.


Worlds oldest SID baby.

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#7 2020-03-29 08:05:23

Dodge
Member
Registered: 2018-08-27
Posts: 2,324

Re: Update broken cant get more iron

fug wrote:

You suggested rifts, then rifts 2.0. I asked Jason for contents instead of nerfs and you suggested "islands" for muh scarcity. I'm glad someone is out here licking Jason's balls so the bad content can continue.

First of all chill

Second i never suggested rift it was always oceans and continents/islands

Third if you dont understand that adding "iron walls" will not make things more interesting i cant do anything for you

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#8 2020-03-29 08:06:17

Morti
Member
Registered: 2018-04-06
Posts: 1,223

Re: Update broken cant get more iron

Dodge wrote:

fug like i said before this was not suggested by me.

Spoonwood two-point-oh

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#9 2020-03-29 08:07:20

Morti
Member
Registered: 2018-04-06
Posts: 1,223

Re: Update broken cant get more iron

Fug tonight, not you Dodge, you're just fine.

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#10 2020-03-29 08:51:22

DiscardedSlinky
DubiousSlinker
From: Discord
Registered: 2019-05-06
Posts: 600

Re: Update broken cant get more iron

I'm so glad these shit updates are so well thought out and tested that they break the entire game upon release.

I had to read the update about 5 times to understand the confusing magic bullshit and even when I did understand it it's fucking broken. Fantastic work here boys. You really have out done yourself. I'm excited to see what other horrible ideas comes from design club. It gets better every time.

I'm glad a small echo chamber of hand selected people are the ones that are slowly killing the game. You all get complete say over what happens to the game while the rest of the community is just forced to go along with it. It feels amazing to not have a voice.

You need new voices in your club Jason because the ones you have now are awful.

Last edited by DiscardedSlinky (2020-03-29 08:51:56)


I'm Slinky. I /blush. I also don't read essays.

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#11 2020-03-29 08:56:47

Dodge
Member
Registered: 2018-08-27
Posts: 2,324

Re: Update broken cant get more iron

DiscardedSlinky wrote:

It feels amazing to not have a voice.

You need new voices in your club Jason because the ones you have now are awful.

Sure slinky go ahead, how would you solve the issue of players not caring about ressources like iron because there is plenty of it, what is your idea of a better system than the current muddy vein?

I'm very curious about what you have to say, let us hear your voice.

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#12 2020-03-29 08:57:21

testo
Member
Registered: 2019-05-12
Posts: 696

Re: Update broken cant get more iron

This is actually very good drama. From a shitty update. I am perplexed. Jason somehow, did it.
Color me entertained.


- I believe the term "Berrymuncher" is derogatory and therefore I shall use the term "Berrier" instead.

- Jack Ass

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#13 2020-03-29 09:04:57

DestinyCall
Member
Registered: 2018-12-08
Posts: 4,108

Re: Update broken cant get more iron

We do care about resources, Dodge.   Gathering and building and making tech is 90% of this game.   People can't do anything useful without the right tools.    I don't understand why you think we don't care about iron.   It is one of the most important resources in the game.  When a village has an abundance of iron by the forge it means than many players made an effort to gather up a bunch of the stuff and bring it home with them so the village would thrive.

Of course we care.

There is no need to remove all the free iron from the game to force us to care about each piece as if it was the village's last girl child.   That is overkill.

Last edited by DestinyCall (2020-03-29 09:06:52)

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#14 2020-03-29 09:34:29

Whatever
Member
Registered: 2019-02-23
Posts: 491

Re: Update broken cant get more iron

Dodge wrote:

Sure slinky go ahead, how would you solve the issue of players not caring about ressources like iron because there is plenty of it

Like DestinyCall said, people care a lot about iron, thats why there is a lot of iron, if people wouldnt care about it than no one would gather it.

Many people play this game because they want to help build a village / town / civilization, being part of something bigger, they selflessly gather the resources, not for them but for the future generations.
THIS is what makes the game so much fun, but some people like jason dont understand this, he doesnt understand whats the core strength of this game, and he works against his, damaging the most important aspect of this game.

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#15 2020-03-29 09:42:12

Dodge
Member
Registered: 2018-08-27
Posts: 2,324

Re: Update broken cant get more iron

DestinyCall wrote:

We do care about resources.   Gathering and building and making tech is 90% of this game.   You can do anything without the right tools.    I don't understand why you think we don't care about iron.    When a village has an abundance of iron by the forge it means than many players made an effort to gather up a bunch of the stuff and bring it home with them.   

Of course we care.

There is no need to remove all the free iron from the game to force us to care about each piece as if it was the village's last girl child.   That is overkill.

No choice making, no discussions or important decisions.

Your idea of caring is making sure there is enough ressources but not actually how everyone is using them.

Gathering ressources is not interesting, not really, choosing what you do with these ressources, making decisions, discussing with others to make these choices, actually having an organized society, roles, leaders etc.

Without limited ressources it's just a crafting game, plenty of everything so why have any interaction with anyone about what we should do with these ressources, right?

Just go in a village and waste a bunch of ressources nobody will care, go to another village and steal anything that is freely available and watch their reaction, how are you able to easily steal in the first place? they should care right? Is there even a reason to steal if there is plenty of everything?

But they care right so probably cant easily steal their stuff.

And that kid had to make a though choice i'm sure when he used some steel from the 5 full stacks available.

Why nobody talking?

Even with a broken update there was more interactions in the life i played then when we had big villages with a lot of ressources "that you care so much about"

Players were actually asking what to do and communicating with each other to try to solve issues, way more interesting than spending a life tending berries in a big city or baking pies for 60 years.

Not saying i'm on board with the current update though, still better than infinite iron and we'll see how it is when update fixed

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#16 2020-03-29 09:46:45

Dodge
Member
Registered: 2018-08-27
Posts: 2,324

Re: Update broken cant get more iron

Whatever wrote:

Like DestinyCall said, people care a lot about iron, thats why there is a lot of iron, if people wouldnt care about it than no one would gather it.

You NEED iron you dont CARE about iron that's the big difference.

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#17 2020-03-29 09:47:36

DiscardedSlinky
DubiousSlinker
From: Discord
Registered: 2019-05-06
Posts: 600

Re: Update broken cant get more iron

Okay. How about instead of magic you just...make iron more rare. Wow. No stupid bullshit and people care about about iron!


I'm Slinky. I /blush. I also don't read essays.

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#18 2020-03-29 09:54:42

Dodge
Member
Registered: 2018-08-27
Posts: 2,324

Re: Update broken cant get more iron

DiscardedSlinky wrote:

Okay. How about instead of magic you just...make iron more rare. Wow. No stupid bullshit and people care about about iron!

Iron is more rare now thanks for the suggestion smile

More seriously yes the point is making iron more rare, the real question is how would you go about it?

What solution do you propose for that issue?

Keep in mind that the map is currently infinite so if you nerf the number of veins you fuck Eve's but at the same time people with horsecarts will just go around emptying all the mines and will have plenty of iron.

So "just...make iron more rare" is not that easy

What is your solution then? How would you make iron more rare?

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#19 2020-03-29 09:55:26

Amon
Member
From: Under your bed
Registered: 2019-02-17
Posts: 780

Re: Update broken cant get more iron

Honestly, I still think bottlenecking an important resource is a piss poor way to encourage caring.
I'd rather see niche/rare resources get boonified to a village rather than essentials.
Imagine if a village had surplus gold, everyone would be wearing crowns. Or surplus lapis lazuli, all houses are blue houses!
Maybe the two will trade, who knows.

A really big issue of 'making iron rarer is' should we really make iron rarer?

Last edited by Amon (2020-03-29 09:56:31)


My favourite all time lives are Unity Dawn, who was married to Sachin Gedeon.
Art!!

PIES 2.0 <- Pie diversification mod

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#20 2020-03-29 09:58:35

Gogo
Banned
Registered: 2019-10-11
Posts: 589

Re: Update broken cant get more iron

fug wrote:

I asked Jason for contents instead of nerfs and you suggested "islands" for muh scarcity.

You can't make more content without nerfing everything first. tongue

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#21 2020-03-29 10:02:41

Léonard
Member
Registered: 2019-01-05
Posts: 183

Re: Update broken cant get more iron

Dodge wrote:

Your idea of caring is making sure there is enough ressources but not actually how everyone is using them.

Like people have already pointed out in some other recent thread, absolutely no one cares about the decision-making process when all you do is restrict everything.

There is NO actual choice involved. It's use this in the most efficient way possible in order to survive just a few minutes longer or you die.

There is NO freedom.

It seems like we bump into a fundamental problem here.
For there to be valid choices, there needs to be freedom.
Restricting freedom seems to in fact achieve the opposite and crunch the number of available choices until it reaches zero.

And guess what gives more options to people?
Let. me. blow. your. mind.
CONTENT.
WOW!

Dodge wrote:

Even with a broken update there was more interactions in the life i played then when we had big villages with a lot of ressources "that you care so much about"

Players were actually asking what to do and communicating with each other to try to solve issues, way more interesting than spending a life tending berries in a big city or baking pies for 60 years.

What you're seeing is exactly what I've described in my 2nd sentence just repeating every update.
The playerbase figures out the right way to do things, then does this forever.
Wow how interesting.

Everyone will figure out the new game meta for a few days then the game becomes the same old grind, everyone goes back to being either frustrated or hopeful that maybe the next gimmick update that was made up in about 5 seconds will magically be different and work this time for some unknown reason.

This is insanely irrational. Just like when Jason took a hard 180 and suddenly decided the game needed new mechanics because private property didn't have the time to emerge naturally yet.
Why change your mind completely like that? Why change your game designing philosophy overnight?
This makes no sense. It's insane.

But no. Let's keep doing these gimmick updates over and over again.
Let's not add choices and options to the tech-tree and then wonder why, after each and every updates, there is still no meaningful decision-making in the game.
Let's keep the tech-tree as short as possible, with only one evolution possible from it, and then wonder why after your playerbase has established the new meta this tech-tree is absolutely burned through in just a handful of hours.

Last edited by Léonard (2020-03-29 10:06:03)

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#22 2020-03-29 10:08:36

Elsayal
Member
Registered: 2018-11-04
Posts: 261

Re: Update broken cant get more iron

I don't agree. I get it that you are upset, but you still got a lot of options of things to do / learn. If you know everything, have done all tattoo, all food, all tech, you can still venture out, find the other tribes, hunt (since it's a bit dangerous now) and so on.


"I go"
"find"
"ging"

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#23 2020-03-29 10:10:38

Dodge
Member
Registered: 2018-08-27
Posts: 2,324

Re: Update broken cant get more iron

Léonard wrote:

...

Yes add 10'000 ways to grill a potato so players have the freedom to do what they want to do about it.

Add as much content as you want and see players do the exact same thing as before just with different shapes and colors.

Shapes and colors woohoo!!!

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#24 2020-03-29 10:32:38

testo
Member
Registered: 2019-05-12
Posts: 696

Re: Update broken cant get more iron

Dodge wrote:
Léonard wrote:

...

Yes add 10'000 ways to grill a potato so players have the freedom to do what they want to do about it.

Add as much content as you want and see players do the exact same thing as before just with different shapes and colors.

Shapes and colors woohoo!!!

Except we don´t have as much content as we want so you can hardly tell what is going to happen. In the end the shapes and colors are the content we got and we used most of it. The "NEED CONTENT" momo is there for a reason Dodge, at some point you got to put your fingers out of your ears.


- I believe the term "Berrymuncher" is derogatory and therefore I shall use the term "Berrier" instead.

- Jack Ass

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#25 2020-03-29 10:41:40

Dodge
Member
Registered: 2018-08-27
Posts: 2,324

Re: Update broken cant get more iron

testo wrote:
Dodge wrote:
Léonard wrote:

...

Yes add 10'000 ways to grill a potato so players have the freedom to do what they want to do about it.

Add as much content as you want and see players do the exact same thing as before just with different shapes and colors.

Shapes and colors woohoo!!!

Except we don´t have as much content as we want so you can hardly tell what is going to happen. In the end the shapes and colors are the content we got and we used most of it. The "NEED CONTENT" momo is there for a reason Dodge, at some point you got to put your fingers out of your ears.

Content is good, it's always nice to have new stuff but it should enable the game to be more interesting and not doing the same thing with different shapes and colors.

A lot of games have huge amounts of content but are just plain boring.

Everyone that says "NEED CONTENT" never says what content would be interesting and for which reasons it would actually be interesting.

If the reason is "more stuff to do" then it's not interesting because it's just more of the same.

For example you can add an "iron stove" to the game so there is more stuff to do with iron but if there's still an infinite quantity of iron then it's only going to be another object you craft without thinking about it, there's no decisions to make, no interaction, nothing more than crafting.

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