Idea for a leadership ability: Orders

jasonrohrer · 2019-12-14 05:09:58

This idea just popped up, and I wanted to hear your thoughts on it.

Leaders don't do anything currently but mark people as exiled for all their followers to see. This is a power that is only valuable in limited situations. It helps us move together, as a group, in that limited situation, but what about the other situations?

What if a leader could issue orders to their followers globally as DING messages?

ORDER, PLEASE REPORT TO TOWN CENTER

Would send a DING message to your immediate followers (if you were a King, it would go to your Dukes). They would see:

DING
AN ORDER FROM YOUR KING SAM THATCHER:
PLEASE REPORT TO TOWN CENTER

You could also communicate to the entire tree, like so:

ORDER ALL, WE'RE OUT OF WATER AND NEED TO MIGRATE

This would send a DING message to your entire follower tree.

DING
AN ORDER FROM YOUR KING SAM THATCHER:
WE'RE OUT OF WATER AND NEED TO MIGRATE

This might seem ripe for abuse, but remember, you can't pick your followers. They can only pick you. And they can dump you in a heartbeat if you're bugging them too much.

It could really help people move together as a group.

And it's kinda like the "family chat" that people have been asking for, albeit unidirectional.

Thematically, it is a bit strange to have long distance communication like this, but we could chalk it up to "bush telegraph" and word of mouth. The king has made a decree, and it doesn't take long for everyone to know about it, right?

Wuatduhf · 2019-12-14 05:17:30

Surface response, it's interesting.

It would be nice to be able to distinguish who in your hierarchy hears the message. What i mean is specifically "ORDER" being all, vs. "ORDER BOB SMITH".

Also maybe something that isn't re-using the "Ding" sfx please? I would love to get more variations on notices so that I'm not looking to see what the ding is for.

DiscardedSlinky · 2019-12-14 05:20:02

It could be easily abused, but it honestly doesn't sound like a bad idea if you get a smart person as a leader. Same time it could be easily used to gang up on an innocent person due to misunderstandings, or just straight griefers.

Ding

ding

ding
ding
ding

Just set a spam limit.

Last edited by DiscardedSlinky (2019-12-14 05:21:04)

jcwilk · 2019-12-14 05:28:38

Yes please, I was imagining something like this down the line but if we're jumping straight into it - great! Another area to keep in mind is property, I really think if this structure ends up working then tying it into property fences -somehow-, or another improved version of property, could really push us closer to trade being a thing.

And re: thematics... we could just say that in the simulated weeks that passed over the few irl seconds of typing our king was busy making rounds and delivering his messages personally to his dukes. OHOL is a high level abstraction, generally speaking, right?

Hoax · 2019-12-14 05:36:41

I like this. A lot of what this game has been missing is communication and, therefore, organization, so I think this is another really good step for the game.

jasonrohrer · 2019-12-14 05:39:37

How many DING messages are you faced with currently?

Tool learning messages and new player messages, but that's it, right?

I mean, for this, you'd want some royal trumpets or something, I suppose. But I don't have any trumpets around here. That ding was made with a chime I have at home. Bell tower was made by slowing that chime down. Curse sound was made by making a discordant chord with that chime. Hunger sound was a chord on my Uke.

Punkypal · 2019-12-14 06:12:15

I like it, I think.

Would only the highest person in the chain be able to do this? Or would the guy at the bottom be getting messaged from a king, and a barron, and a duke, and a count, and etc, etc?

IDEA:

There should be a "message board" that can be built by players. When there are new messages a player hasn't seen it indicates that somehow visually. You would have to go check it and see what is being "ordered". It would display one message from each person above you. For instance you would click on the message board and a pop up would appear and say:

Your Queen Evelyn Smith wrote: Tom Winters is murdering people! Kill him on sight!

Your Duke Jasper Smith wrote: Yes, do as the king said. This guy just killed my mother.

Your Barron Bill Barbosa wrote: Can a ginger go the the pump and get some kerosene plz.

Your Lady Yvonne Durr wrote: Try not to die in the middle of town, the bones make a mess. Thanks!

So........

If you are in town, you can get messages quickly, but you still need to check the board. Players can ignore it if they want. If you are out in the wilderness running around, you will be out of the current news until you get back into a place with a message board. They don't have to be just in town. Along a road or anywhere. Maybe a message board would require some kind of basic maintenance once a day to avoid collapsing so there aren't message boards in every corner of every jungle and desert.

Last edited by Punkypal (2019-12-14 06:29:40)

jcwilk · 2019-12-14 06:14:50

jasonrohrer wrote:

I mean, for this, you'd want some royal trumpets or something, I suppose. But I don't have any trumpets around here. That ding was made with a chime I have at home. Bell tower was made by slowing that chime down. Curse sound was made by making a discordant chord with that chime. Hunger sound was a chord on my Uke.

Maybe a sped up chime with a cutoff or something to not make it too earbleedy? I feel like speech notifications usually have a light airy ding to them, trumpets seem like it would be difficult to not make them annoying after a dozen messages.

Also, possibly limit the frequency of messages to like 5x as slow as the normal chat limit which is... like a second or something? One proclamation every 5 seconds seems reasonable, which translates to about a month of stimulated time so it could be the king's monthly proclamation!

Last edited by jcwilk (2019-12-14 06:15:14)

Spoonwood · 2019-12-14 06:17:34

jasonrohrer wrote:

This might seem ripe for abuse, but remember, you can't pick your followers. They can only pick you. And they can dump you in a heartbeat if you're bugging them too much.

The first statement is correct. But the second is not. How quickly you have forgotten how your own system works.

You want people to care for their offspring. To care for the children. But, apparently you're having a rather hard time keeping OHOL offspring in mind here.

I don't think this would be hard to abuse:

A leader could just ding a child who have inherited the inferior position a bunch of times. The child doesn't have a recourse to get out of the relationship. But, someone keeps on dinging them. And next thing you know you have that child murdering the leader. That might sound alright, since the leader was a bad one to that child, but others in the hiearchy might not feel the same way. So the grown up child could get easily targeted for death by the followers.

And such a scenario isn't people playing for their lineages.

jcwilk · 2019-12-14 06:26:02

Spoonwood wrote:

jasonrohrer wrote:
This might seem ripe for abuse, but remember, you can't pick your followers. They can only pick you. And they can dump you in a heartbeat if you're bugging them too much.
The first statement is correct. But the second is not. How quickly you have forgotten how your own system works.
You want people to care for their offspring. To care for the children. But, apparently you're having a rather hard time keeping OHOL offspring in mind here.
I don't think this would be hard to abuse:
A leader could just ding a child who have inherited the inferior position a bunch of times. The child doesn't have a recourse to get out of the relationship. But, someone keeps on dinging them. And next thing you know you have that child murdering the leader. That might sound alright, since the leader was a bad one to that child, but others in the hiearchy might not feel the same way. So the grown up child could get easily targeted for death by the followers.
And such a scenario isn't people playing for their lineages.

Although I think you're exaggerating on the severity of this, I agree that it's a little weird that you can't opt out of this for a full 15 minutes... Like why? I get that you don't want people to pop out of the womb and switch leaders, but how about at least giving kids the ability to stop following on birth. "i follow myself" was it? Seems pretty harmless if they're being annoyed by the leader and just want to stop seeing exiles and monthly proclamations (I'm making this a thing)

Edit: nevermind it's 11 to switch leaders and 15 to have no leaders, both only in the condition of inheriting a leader. Doesn't make sense to me... Switch leaders sure, 11, but why the longer delay on flying solo?

Last edited by jcwilk (2019-12-14 06:29:26)

Punkypal · 2019-12-14 06:44:26

jcwilk wrote:

Edit: nevermind it's 11 to switch leaders and 15 to have no leaders, both only in the condition of inheriting a leader. Doesn't make sense to me... Switch leaders sure, 11, but why the longer delay on flying solo?

I follow me

If that is allowed it would be what, ten to follow yourself?

unfollow

That would be eight?

Maybe such things should just be a /command that can be done at any age. You could unfollow by saying the words or doing the /command. Whichever way suits your fancy.

jcwilk · 2019-12-14 06:46:07

Punkypal wrote:

jcwilk wrote:
Edit: nevermind it's 11 to switch leaders and 15 to have no leaders, both only in the condition of inheriting a leader. Doesn't make sense to me... Switch leaders sure, 11, but why the longer delay on flying solo?
I follow me
If that is allowed it would be what, ten to follow yourself?
unfollow
That would be eight?
Maybe such things should just be a /command that can be done at any age. You could unfollow by saying the words or doing the /command. Whichever way suits your fancy.

I meant that iirc "i follow myself" is the way you unfollow your leader

fug · 2019-12-14 06:48:12

jasonrohrer wrote:

How many DING messages are you faced with currently?
Tool learning messages and new player messages, but that's it, right?
I mean, for this, you'd want some royal trumpets or something, I suppose. But I don't have any trumpets around here. That ding was made with a chime I have at home. Bell tower was made by slowing that chime down. Curse sound was made by making a discordant chord with that chime. Hunger sound was a chord on my Uke.

Slinky isn't complaining that we have a million ding sounds but the fact you could possibly spam the order command and start ping spamming people. You can't leave a group you've inherited from your mother until you're like 13/15 so this means depending on how often you can issue an order depends on how many pings someone has to listen to for about 1/4th of their life.

A good example of how to spam pings in this fashion is when two mischievous old people start spamming war/peace.

Kinrany · 2019-12-14 07:23:21

Yep, sounds like a good idea.

There could also be an arrow pointing towards your current leader.
1. Easier to find them to discuss something
2. Can be used in mass migrations

You could also just directly message your leader, but this could be abused since following is one-way. But you could mute the exiled followers.

jcwilk · 2019-12-14 07:25:44

Kinrany wrote:

Yep, sounds like a good idea.
There could also be an arrow pointing towards your current leader.
1. Easier to find them to discuss something
2. Can be used in mass migrations
You could also just directly message your leader, but this could be abused since following is one-way. But you could mute the exiled followers.

Please no on arrow, would for sure be used to track targets after following them... Unless the leader could opt-in to being tracked by followers for the next few minutes with some command

Kinrany · 2019-12-14 08:34:51

Oh yeah, it would definitely allow people to stalk other people.

Not sure how bad that would be.

You could also exploit this for navigation by following people from other villages.

Grim_Arbiter · 2019-12-14 09:55:50

jasonrohrer wrote:

I mean, for this, you'd want some royal trumpets or something, I suppose. But I don't have any trumpets around here. That ding was made with a chime I have at home. Bell tower was made by slowing that chime down. Curse sound was made by making a discordant chord with that chime. Hunger sound was a chord on my Uke.

Your kids have to have a kazoo lying around somewhere haha.

arkajalka · 2019-12-14 10:57:11

Would deffinetly bring a twist to the game.

Really capable leaders could make huge off meta things happen with this.
+1

Kinrany · 2019-12-14 11:46:21

Orders could stick around on the screen instead of being a notification.
This would help with long-term orders like "this quarter we're building a road to Donkeytown", especially when new followers join.
This could even work as a notice board for working groups: you can follow a bunch of people to see what they're doing and join the group that you think does something important.

But having too many orders at the same time would be confusing. Some ideas:

Restrict each leader to one order.
Prioritize the king's orders over the direct leader's orders. Or the other way around.
(The king's orders are more important, but the direct leader's orders are more relevant. Maybe there should be two of them: "global" prioritizes the king's orders, "local" prioritizes the direct leader. Can be especially useful when the king and the leader are not in agreement.)
Cycle through all orders, same as recipes.

Last edited by Kinrany (2019-12-14 11:48:38)

DarkDrak · 2019-12-14 13:46:15

...

So, basically... now, when you're a king, you can send a baron to another settlement and have their direct follower right next to you. Then the baron will send orders to the follower, he'll relay them to you and you will send orders to the baron. Effectively achieving long distance communication with three people, doable since eve camp. Without the use of a radio. Without the need of cellphones. Just with bare telepathy.

I mean, it would be useful, yeah, but...... is this really the vision you have for your game?

I could understand a "shout" where a king gets himself heard in his whole town, but global... wtf?

wondible · 2019-12-14 14:23:48

Communication and coordination is certainly lacking the game, and this would help get unworthy leaders unfollowed.

It does feel out of place with the current rarely reached state of radio. We could imagine that if we weren't experiencing super sped up time, this represents gossip as we all return home to eat/sleep every day. That raises the question of why only certain people can gossip, but at least you can choose who to listen too.

Also: the whole follower thing immediately made me think of chasing social media follows. Now you subscribe to their tweets too!

Kinrany · 2019-12-14 14:26:59

DarkDrak wrote:

So, basically... now, when you're a king, you can send a baron to another settlement and have their direct follower right next to you. Then the baron will send orders to the follower, he'll relay them to you and you will send orders to the baron. Effectively achieving long distance communication with three people, doable since eve camp. Without the use of a radio. Without the need of cellphones. Just with bare telepathy.

With two people. They can follow each other in turns, this won't even break the tree.

A radio can still be better. Like tunics: same thing as hovering the mouse over the character, just more streamlined. But I guess they might need to be cheaper to be a viable strategy? I don't know if people are using radios to talk to other towns right now.

Kinrany · 2019-12-14 14:29:02

wondible wrote:

Also: the whole follower thing immediately made me think of chasing social media follows. Now you subscribe to their tweets too!

I wonder what would the world look like if we had to start from scratch, but with personal computers and the Internet?

Sopbucket · 2019-12-14 15:17:10

I'm not against better communication tools, but I wonder if this is too convenient. Being able to instantaneously message people, without having to find them and regardless of distance - I feel these sort of challenges are better overcome with more advanced technology at some point.

I was thinking you could have a town crier of some sort - someone who runs around town with a permanent message above his head, so long as he holds onto an "order", which is just that message written in permanent ink on a sheet of paper and stamped with a seal of authority. The message could have the leader's badge displayed somewhere in the corner, so everyone will know who it was from have some sense of how authoritive it is.

Last edited by Sopbucket (2019-12-14 15:37:49)

Ruben · 2019-12-14 15:29:27

jasonrohrer wrote:

Thematically, it is a bit strange to have long distance communication like this, but we could chalk it up to "bush telegraph" and word of mouth. The king has made a decree, and it doesn't take long for everyone to know about it, right?

I'm not entirely sure I understood that correctly. I don't like the idea of this message to just reach everyone, everywhere, instantly. Two persons from two different groups could basically emulate a bi-directional radio this way.

The order has to creep its way between group members that meet each other (along with a timestamp so players can know if the order is still relevant).

Also, newer orders should override older ones.
And players should not be able to keep track of every order that has been stated -> a player that has been gone for 30 years and comes back has missed out on a bunch of orders in between, and is only getting the current one. I would love this system because it would leave players with different orders from different times, a penalty for leaving the town of sorts.

"Kill them all!" - *30 years later, coming back victorious* - "Spare them all! 29 years ago" - *What have I done*

EDIT:

Sopbucket wrote:

I was thinking you could have a town crier of some sort

Giving orders by holding a megaphone confirmed.

Last edited by Ruben (2019-12-14 15:35:13)

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#1 2019-12-14 05:09:58

Idea for a leadership ability: Orders

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Re: Idea for a leadership ability: Orders

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Re: Idea for a leadership ability: Orders

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