Griefer management and the case for polygraph.

Toxolotl · 2019-11-30 19:00:47

So i had this idea last night. Its pretty half baked but i think something along these lines could help with finding the truth and managing griefing.

My idea was a polygraph machine or something similar. Perhaps it would be accompanied with handcuffs or a taser. Something to incapacitate a person so you could take them to the machine. Once attached to the machine a list of good and bad deeds would be listed.

Something like "let loose five bears, broke two kilns, killed one person" (bad things) and "killed five bears, built three kilns, healed two people" (good things).

Good deeds main purpose would be to counter bad deeds. So if you let out bears but also killed them its clear you were collecting rugs and not griefing. If you healed a few people and killed one you likely countered a griefer etc. The list would likely be pretty short given how uncreative most griefing techniques are.

I think a griefer's most potent weapon is confusion. Often a person is mistaken as a griefer and killed instead of the culprit. Sometimes griefers will try to blame others for their actions. Having others waste their curse tokens on an innocent player.

I like the idea of a system that helps in finding the truth.
I think something like this could prove really useful. The main issue i find is actually catching a griefer and also potential abuse. Perhaps handcuffs give a speed boost and you need at least two people to say something like "john doe is wanted". They would be escorted like a horse, and delivered to the poly graph like the horse is to a fence. Then the list would be read off in colored text to indicate good and bad actions.

Let me know what you think. What would be potential pit falls with something like this? What would be your good and bad actions list?

Last edited by Toxolotl (2019-11-30 19:04:37)

ahead · 2019-11-30 19:15:09

Gimmicky technology with extremely magic like properties, i already dislike enough magic features like the indestructible property face and gate, which somehow only lets in the person who built it.
Another one is not what i crave, better general awareness and specialized authority figures are the answear, not more magic.

Toxolotl · 2019-11-30 19:25:54

My idea is as much magic as the radio is. I would be curious to hear more about your authority figure idea and how that would work. I worry about abuse with something like that though because a griefer in that position is only going to make more problems. Personally i think the main issue with griefing is not being able to know who is one or not. A system that helps associate that would be good imo. Whatever it may be.

MrGold · 2019-11-30 20:14:57

I was thinking about better nets
Can stun people with nets for a few moments

Gomez · 2019-11-30 21:24:59

TLDR : Know thy neighbor.

For me an entire portion of the game is finding and eliminating subversive people in the village. I wouldn't really want it to be handled for me via in game technology.

Not many people even play that portion of the game I have a few strategies for "founding towns". By founding town I mean having a positive interaction with a player and declaring them publicly good, which may go something like this.

"John the smith is good, help John the smith." So town then consists of me and john....at least my "town".

It also help me remember who i trust...so anytime i see someone doing positive things for town I add them to my town and state it publicly a few times around town.

Pretty soon I've got a few people I know who are good productive citizens and hopefully they've reciprocated the feeling, usually they do.

So now you've gotten to know a few of your neighbors you see a loafer or someone loading up four pies in a backpack or doing something else perhaps suboptimal maybe a minor error or crime. Correct them as polite as possible...those who won't accept the correction one strike...this is no smoking gun just a tic on the scoreboard of good or evil.

Next ask them "what do?" As in like wtf are you gonna do for town besides eat four pies?

No proffesion no plan? another tic at this point two tics means perma follow til I see him in a profession or doing something positive. As soon as major crime observed report to players in my town if i have them and spread word publicly. This may be met with skepticism at which point other players can observe the accused. If town accepts claim kill griefer, after the kill spam the accusation and delcare guard and justice kill.

Honestly its like a town of salem mini game for me...if you are familiar with that game style it has many versions of it ultimate werewolf, mafia tons out there in the genre just like turn based murder mysteries.

Last edited by Gomez (2019-11-30 21:31:53)

Gomez · 2019-11-30 21:39:24

TLDR : adding this would eliminate a major portion of the game I enjoy, which is playing detective and town cop.

Next vet kids, I do this by first establishing communication those I can't communicate with are useless to me. Hence "hi baby" proper response "H" and only "H" is accepted. All other responses rejected failure to submit proper response child abandoned.

Next is a follow test will they listen and carry out an order.

Next I generally show or teach them what I'm currently doing and I really don't care if they already know this is more about obedience at this point and willingness to be helpful to "mom". The child should be silent and observing not telling me "IK" or "IDC" or running off the grab clothing.

Kid goes for clothing instead of listening to mama he get a quick lesson on you need mama feed you not backpack and watch them starve.

Baby makes angry face? Instant rejection typically unless used in some appropriate manner.

Last edited by Gomez (2019-11-30 21:40:04)

Bowser · 2019-11-30 21:47:50

I like the idea of finding griefers and calling them out, but I bet it would be hard to implement.

Instead, I'd like to see a way to imprison or detain players who are griefing. This is especially important if they are female and you are hoping they would not leave, allowing you to keep the children.

It could be as simple as making it so players can't use knives/bows/swords or any other weapon by putting something on them that they cannot take off themselves. But I think giving them a type of handcuff to prevent them from using tools, only being able to hold basic items like baskets, bowls, food, etc. Cuffed players could have any item on them removed or given, including clothes. Any held items that they couldn't use (like a knife or bow) are automatically dropped. They could still move freely.

And for the worst types of players, putting them in a stock or something similar which prevents them from moving, and have to be fed by other players to survive (but can still have children). It could be as simple as them being stuck on a fence or wall, but still have full use of hands. We'd also want an item that could be used to lead them to it, or to a property fence that is being used like a jail.

None of the above items would be usable on children, since children are not able to be a threat in this way.

Obviously, this could be used for griefing as well, and for that reason I am not sure this is the solution. Tools to prevent griefing sadly can cause even worse griefing to occur. That said, given that griefers are in the minority (in most cases), this would allow the greater majority of the town to prevent the minority of griefers to be detained or prevented from griefing. Furthermore this could be used like 'slavery' and that's a bad topic too, not what I'd intend with this suggestion.

I'm not sure it can work, but I do want more tools to stop griefers. Curses aren't doing it, and don't always work. Donkey Town isn't enough of a deterrant to stop griefers, but one idiot with a knife can kill off an entire family. This isn't right. We at least need a way to prevent players we know might be griefers from using items to murder other players. If our only deterrant to stop griefers is to curse them and kill them, and hope we can heal players they attacked... we are already screwed.

On topic, I think the idea is a good one Toxotl, I just don't know how hard it would be to implement. I'd at least like a way to temporarily detain players so we can hear both sides instead of "we'll just kill and curse you before you can do anything else", which is how things normally go.

Last edited by Bowser (2019-11-30 21:56:35)

Bowser · 2019-11-30 21:51:09

Gomez wrote:

TLDR : adding this would eliminate a major portion of the game I enjoy, which is playing detective and town cop.
Next vet kids, I do this by first establishing communication those I can't communicate with are useless to me. Hence "hi baby" proper response "H" and only "H" is accepted. All other responses rejected failure to submit proper response child abandoned.
Next is a follow test will they listen and carry out an order.
Next I generally show or teach them what I'm currently doing and I really don't care if they already know this is more about obedience at this point and willingness to be helpful to "mom". The child should be silent and observing not telling me "IK" or "IDC" or running off the grab clothing.
Kid goes for clothing instead of listening to mama he get a quick lesson on you need mama feed you not backpack and watch them starve.
Baby makes angry face? Instant rejection typically unless used in some appropriate manner.

Harsh, but it might have some effectiveness. I fear you are going to end up killing off a lot of players that may just not know better, and other moms may not be as strict as you are. Furthermore, if the child is a female baby and you happen to have a shortage of women, can you afford to be choosey on which ones live and die? Maybe they don't act as well as they should, but a bad mom is better than no mom if it means the family lives or dies because of them.

Don't think I've ever met you, though now I wonder. I've seen at least one mom ask me to follow them, but I thought it was just because they were working.

Last edited by Bowser (2019-11-30 21:52:26)

Toxolotl · 2019-12-01 02:54:11

My interest is enabling some structure that makes associating griefers easier. Gomez, you may be a good detective but you cant be in every town all the time enforcing the law. Players who just want to work and make a difference in their own way dont necessarily take the time to do what you do. Expecting them to do that and expect that as the meta is silly. Im glad you enjoy that method but most players dont jump into that form without some grease. What im looking for is some of that grease to motivate players to associate and understand griefers so we have a balanced amount of weapons to counter them.

It doesnt necessarily need to be a box that tells the truth but expecting players to put in the time and effort to find that stuff out by the hour every hour is silly. Most just want to play the game and not deal with the bs. I dont need it to be a polygraph or anything along that function but something that enables players to counter griefers is a win imo. If you think that's a bad idea than you clearly think griefing is exciting and enjoy it in the game. Honestly thats fine. Everyone has their own taste and i think those things should be represented.

My main issue is that griefer types are not getting the outlet they need. I like the excitement of griefers. Its annoying when its constant but i can feel the potential there. If given the right outlet with the right structure it could be a beautiful part of the game

Raiders and pirates have been a constant part of human history but the problem is that doing those things is easier if you do it within the family. With the meta knowledge we are all born with its cheap. There needs to be some system that enables people to play that way without it being pure toxic. There also needs to be some structure to help people manage griefers when it happens.

Its a broken part of the game imo and i would be curious to hear what you think would promote an interesting system. Saying you enjoy the system as it stands and having it change would ruin the experience for you is selfish imo. People who expect their agendas pushed on other players without respect for others playstyles are trash imo. I want to elevate the experience, not pour cold water on it. As it stands its molten and needs a mold.

Last edited by Toxolotl (2019-12-01 05:06:31)

pein · 2019-12-01 04:40:56

could be a log of things that people did within last few minutes, like sheep killed by X then you know he killed all of them, sure it might be still going trough but would help a bit

schmloo · 2019-12-01 07:03:58

Yeah, passive options for handling griefers (or even just know-it-all idiots in general) would be very nice.

The_Anabaptist · 2019-12-01 09:35:26

Or...

Jason could add Bear Traps. Put a trap in front of the den, and at least the first bear woken from hibernation is toast.

The_Anabaptist

DestinyCall · 2019-12-01 09:46:50

Put the bear traps near the nursery. Solve village over-population problems.

Gomez · 2019-12-03 02:29:26

Yes actually griefers make the game for me....hunting and squashing them out of town is quite fun tbh. I literally wouldn't play this game if Jason removed greifers as you call them or subversives as I call them. This is strictly pve game without greifers and well I don't really play pve sandbox games. News flash guards are meta so better learn and spread the word.

Seriously through the night I would guard against an onslaught of griefers it was fucking the best game play I've had in sometime...literally kicking the shit out of the griefers in the rift. Organizing my hearth stocking meds training kids and waiting for the assholes to come and try to kill me and my family. I LOVED IT! I smashed those plebs so hard...notice the griefers group up now? Because I educated the players around me and kept families alive through the thin hours of the night so they started teaming up more often...no shit.

True I can't be in every town all the time...but I can ask someone to fill guard when I'm old which I typically will if the town is advanced enough for me to full time guard. Honestly a town guard is as important as blacksmith and cook, it just is rarely filled because is non-obvious role to be filled.

Create a post (job) write up post and everything that entails it gear responsibilities and disseminate* to community. Ensure post is filled before dying. Hey guess what? guard gomez in every town now.

TBH very few players have the insight into the procession involved in actually establishing and maintaining function and order in the town.

Also Yes sometimes I don't vet kids fully given circumstances sometimes you're busy or desperate.

* disseminate - spread (something, especially information) widely

Last edited by Gomez (2019-12-03 02:45:40)

One Hour One Life Forums

#1 2019-11-30 19:00:47

Griefer management and the case for polygraph.

#2 2019-11-30 19:15:09

Re: Griefer management and the case for polygraph.

#3 2019-11-30 19:25:54

Re: Griefer management and the case for polygraph.

#4 2019-11-30 20:14:57

Re: Griefer management and the case for polygraph.

#5 2019-11-30 21:24:59

Re: Griefer management and the case for polygraph.

#6 2019-11-30 21:39:24

Re: Griefer management and the case for polygraph.

#7 2019-11-30 21:47:50

Re: Griefer management and the case for polygraph.

#8 2019-11-30 21:51:09

Re: Griefer management and the case for polygraph.

#9 2019-12-01 02:54:11

Re: Griefer management and the case for polygraph.

#10 2019-12-01 04:40:56

Re: Griefer management and the case for polygraph.

#11 2019-12-01 07:03:58

Re: Griefer management and the case for polygraph.

#12 2019-12-01 09:35:26

Re: Griefer management and the case for polygraph.

#13 2019-12-01 09:46:50

Re: Griefer management and the case for polygraph.

#14 2019-12-03 02:29:26

Re: Griefer management and the case for polygraph.

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