NOTICE: all fitness scores will reset to 30 tomorrow

jasonrohrer · 2019-11-23 03:28:41

I'm closing an exploit that allowed such ridiculously high scores.

We're all starting over at 30 tomorrow.

StrongForce · 2019-11-23 10:26:07

Rip legit grinders
But this is the only fair way.

Let the gene grind for the top begin!!
What time?

Twisted · 2019-11-23 12:26:48

As someone who really cares about my personal gene score I think this is the best course of action.

I do kind of question the viability of the gene score being infinite though. You gain more tool slots as your score goes up, and since there is no cap I assume that a good player will generally always go up, which means that good players will end up with infinite tool slots with time, which then kind of defeats one of the purposes of having tool slots in the first place (requiring cooperation and preventing villages from being carried by one player).

I think I liked it better when it was finite, specifically the slow incarnation that was active right before the infinite change.

QuirkySmirkyIan · 2019-11-23 12:43:31

Twisted wrote:

As someone who really cares about my personal gene score I think this is the best course of action.
I do kind of question the viability of the gene score being infinite though. You gain more tool slots as your score goes up, and since there is no cap I assume that a good player will generally always go up, which means that good players will end up with infinite tool slots with time, which then kind of defeats one of the purposes of having tool slots in the first place (requiring cooperation and preventing villages from being carried by one player).
I think I liked it better when it was finite, specifically the slow incarnation that was active right before the infinite change.

I agree 100% it also seems really weird having such a high score.

miskas · 2019-11-23 13:41:34

I prefer something to be weird to some than broken , unfair.

The major problem of the previous system.
Was Getting full score for giving birth to a pro that always lives to 60 even if you never cared for him not even named him.
And also not be rewarded for babysitting, teaching and fully dedicate your life to a noob that managed to live at 50 instead of his average 10.

New system promotes healthy parenting. the old one didn't.

As for the cap, If not having a cap motivates players to be good parents I prefer good parents than cooperative players, We already have family limits so we will never stop needing co-operation and trade.

Last edited by miskas (2019-11-23 13:47:14)

jasonrohrer · 2019-11-23 17:28:05

Yeah... I do worry about infinite too slots swamping the game....

I think it should be a different curve. Working on that. Will post some curves in a second.

Also, game-wide, the lowest score is currently 11, so no one is negative yet.

jasonrohrer · 2019-11-23 17:46:11

Here's the current curve:

Kaveh · 2019-11-23 18:03:52

Jason, will you do something to help people who can't play as much reach the top of the leaderboard? This wasn't an issue before since scores were capped, but with this system...
Iif scores for an experienced player go up on average , the player that gets to play the most games will have the highest score. It's kind of demotivating for anyone who doesn't have that much time to put into the game.

Wuatduhf · 2019-11-23 18:12:08

In my opinion (taken with grain of salt, ofc) the existing system's exponential growth made me feel like the 1-5 bonus tool slots were almost impossible to get (I went from 0-36 and barely had 2 of them), rather than getting a 'feel' of growth over time with gaining them from the original 0 -> 60 climb.

Are you considering a logarithmic curve? It would allow tool slot increases to be more evenly distributed early on than the exponential formula, at the lower end of fitness, and at the top the highest tool slot possible would be capped at a certain # of them to dis-incentivize only caring about one's Fitness score.

It would also kinda tackle Kaveh's post a little, but I'm not hot for "preventing" people playing the game more from having a better Fitness in general.

EDIT: Specifically the Log(x) curve.

Last edited by Wuatduhf (2019-11-23 18:14:33)

jasonrohrer · 2019-11-23 18:12:26

Okay, here's a new possible sigmoid curve:

jasonrohrer · 2019-11-23 18:14:47

And here it is showing the rounding that will convert it to an integer number of tool slots:

jasonrohrer · 2019-11-23 18:16:37

And regarding playing more... I hear you on that.

I'm not sure what to do there.

One idea is to reduce the score gain from each subsequent game you play in a 24-hour period. But if you had played 10 games, and were considering number 11, that would be demotivating, right?

jasonrohrer · 2019-11-23 18:17:21

Also, this new curve will have to be adjusted based on the scores people actually get, given that the SIDs exploit has been closed.

jasonrohrer · 2019-11-23 18:20:50

For reference, the above curve is:

15 / (1 + 1.03^-(x - 100)) + 4.258

One thing that's a little weird is the negative end of this curve, which looks like this when rounded:

So it docks you one tool slot after you go below -40, but never gets worse than that.

People haven't gone negative at all yet, so this is probably not an issue.

Wuatduhf · 2019-11-23 18:29:10

Yeah, that formula looks a lot better for tool distribution compared to the exponential.

Considering the loophole in SIDs has been patched up, I have a small feeling the Gene scores will start to float around the 80-120 region for like the top 15% of people, and then maybe the top 2% will push into the 160 range. Will have to watch and see, though.

On the other end of the spectrum, since we haven't seen anyone do negative values, and since that should theorhetically be very very difficult to do, people should probably lose more than 1 tool for crossing the negative barrier. 2?

jasonrohrer · 2019-11-23 18:36:51

Yeah, I can just have a non-curve factor in there. If you go negative, you lose a slot right away, and then if you go below 40, you lose 2.

Also, it's not totally unreasonable to use a lookup table for this instead of a math curve. I could just hard-code some ranges that make sense to me. But the curve is good for now.

arkajalka · 2019-11-23 18:47:57

Havent abused the SID bug at all this whole time the new gene system has been up. Only SIDed few times for my mom naming me HOPE. My genetic score is now at 88.4

I live 95% of my lives up to 60, with the ocassional sniper wolfs/boars. Havent snek stepped at all or REEE'd at mosquitoes, but they are locked into a bad biome so traveling there is so much more uncommon...

Tho this has only been up a little time and the score has been raising on a constant phase.

Wuatduhf · 2019-11-23 19:03:59

arkajalka wrote:

Havent abused the SID bug at all this whole time the new gene system has been up. Only SIDed few times for my mom naming me HOPE. My genetic score is now at 88.4
I live 95% of my lives up to 60, with the ocassional sniper wolfs/boars. Havent snek stepped at all or REEE'd at mosquitoes, but they are locked into a bad biome so traveling there is so much more uncommon...
Tho this has only been up a little time and the score has been raising on a constant phase.

It's worth keeping in mind that we had a massive influx of players, and are now in the period where they are lasting longer lives compared to a week ago.

We are also still on "EZ Mode" that gives everyone 2 extra food pips for every food item.

All those negative scores are going to start going back up, which means anyone helping them out of their pit is starting to feel the goodness on their Gene Fitness.

Coconut Fruit · 2019-11-23 19:15:26

Twisted wrote:

I do kind of question the viability of the gene score being infinite though. You gain more tool slots as your score goes up, and since there is no cap I assume that a good player will generally always go up, which means that good players will end up with infinite tool slots with time

For people who actually are able to go higher and higher over time, things like this will only encourage them to play the game more.
For many people some kind of grinding in any game makes them play the game more, which is actually a good thing, isn't it?

Last edited by Coconut Fruit (2019-11-23 19:16:17)

Wuatduhf · 2019-11-23 19:19:48

Coconut Fruit wrote:

Twisted wrote:
I do kind of question the viability of the gene score being infinite though. You gain more tool slots as your score goes up, and since there is no cap I assume that a good player will generally always go up, which means that good players will end up with infinite tool slots with time
For people who actually are able to go higher and higher over time, things like this will only encourage them to play the game more.
For many people some kind of grinding in any game makes them play the game more, which is actually a good thing, isn't it?

A tried, true, and tested formula.

arkajalka · 2019-11-23 19:26:39

Wuatduhf wrote:

"EZ Mode"

Yap, just wanted to dump my non abused stats if theres any help of it.

Kaveh · 2019-11-23 19:49:15

Are scores still (somewhat) normally distributed with this system? I assume it might be but with an average that is slowly moving up and the bell curve along with it? Or is it like 'stretching out' more and more (so more players with REALLY high scores and also more players with REALLY low scores)?

If it is normal: What if you distribute tool slots according to standard deviations (average & SD calculated for currently active players, or current leaderboard so past 24h)? The top 0.1% gets the most slots, then top 2.3%, then top 15.9%, etc.
It'd stop people from trying to game the system to get outrageous scores for practically unlimited tool slots, since they can't win THAT many by grinding it out.

jasonrohrer wrote:

And regarding playing more... I hear you on that.
I'm not sure what to do there.
One idea is to reduce the score gain from each subsequent game you play in a 24-hour period. But if you had played 10 games, and were considering number 11, that would be demotivating, right?

I kind of like this idea. I feel a high spot on the leaderboard should be possible for both those with a lot of time and those without. Someone in a diff topic mentioned a daily/weekly cap on added points, but I feel that'd be too strict maybe. Slowly getting less and less might make more sense. You CAN still grind, but it gets harder along the way. This allows for other people to 'catch up' a little with fewer games played.

As for your question:
Depends on your motivation to play 10 games in the first place. Doing it just to raise your score? Yeah, it might feel useless at some point. Doing it just cuz you're having fun with the game? It really doesn't matter.
The thing is that you can also look at it from the other side. A player who generally only plays 1 game (cuz no chance of leaderboard position anyway) may realise playing 1 more can greatly increase their potential on the leaderboard, meaning for them it could actually be MORE motivating. (Or, repeating what I just said, depending on their motivation it could possibly not matter at all, so their behaviour is unaffected.)

I actually find it an interesing mechanic in terms of human behaviour. The player who plays a lot already may play less (playing 10 games instead of 11, so you only get 91% of the time they would invest otherwise), but the player who plays few may play more (2 games instead of 1, so 200% of theirs!).
Questions: Which player does this change really affect (i.e. who cares about their score, is it everyone or just the ones high on the leaderboard)? Which player are there more of? Does it matter losing some hours of gameplay from committed players if you may gain more in return from people who don't play as much? Do you want to hold on to the committed players, or increase the playtime of those who aren't quite there yet?

arkajalka · 2019-11-23 20:31:04

Is there a way to just count you recent X number of lifes for the score or is it too rough for some technical reasons?

Lets say the genetical fitnes, would only count your past 100 lifes(kinda feel the number needs to be somewhat "big" for any good valuation of your skill)... Then the amount of gaming wouldn't affect that much on the chances of reaching a good score.

Would sure take longer time for people who play less to get there, but eventually it would be possible for you.

wondible · 2019-11-23 20:36:37

jasonrohrer wrote:

People haven't gone negative at all yet, so this is probably not an issue.

Unless you enable tool slots on a private server with no fitness server, in which case you get evaluated at -99999 score. The new behavior is much more forgiving here: 3 slots instead of 0, with a much more obvious fix - increase min tool slots vs making min and max the same so there was no difference to scale.

jasonrohrer · 2019-11-23 20:56:48

As far as evaluating only recent lives... hmm.... that's definitely possible.

That would prevent scores from ever getting too high. It's an interesting idea.

The fitness server currently keeps your last 25 lives and offspring in the database, and flushes the rest.

What if, to compute your current score, it starts from 30 and then adds in the effect of JUST these most recent lives and offspring? In the client, these are the ones that are shown to you..... so you could look there, and see the ENTIRE history (25 offspring and lives) that made up your current score.

So then the game becomes this:

Have the BEST recent 25 lives and offspring possible.

Instead of climbing, it's about perfecting. Playing more would still be necessary sometimes, like if you had a bad offspring in the middle weighing you down.

This is a very weird idea... I'm not sure about it

I think that players would find it random and frustrating, though.

One Hour One Life Forums

#1 2019-11-23 03:28:41

NOTICE: all fitness scores will reset to 30 tomorrow

#2 2019-11-23 10:26:07

Re: NOTICE: all fitness scores will reset to 30 tomorrow

#3 2019-11-23 12:26:48

Re: NOTICE: all fitness scores will reset to 30 tomorrow

#4 2019-11-23 12:43:31

Re: NOTICE: all fitness scores will reset to 30 tomorrow

#5 2019-11-23 13:41:34

Re: NOTICE: all fitness scores will reset to 30 tomorrow

#6 2019-11-23 17:28:05

Re: NOTICE: all fitness scores will reset to 30 tomorrow

#7 2019-11-23 17:46:11

Re: NOTICE: all fitness scores will reset to 30 tomorrow

#8 2019-11-23 18:03:52

Re: NOTICE: all fitness scores will reset to 30 tomorrow

#9 2019-11-23 18:12:08

Re: NOTICE: all fitness scores will reset to 30 tomorrow

#10 2019-11-23 18:12:26

Re: NOTICE: all fitness scores will reset to 30 tomorrow

#11 2019-11-23 18:14:47

Re: NOTICE: all fitness scores will reset to 30 tomorrow

#12 2019-11-23 18:16:37

Re: NOTICE: all fitness scores will reset to 30 tomorrow

#13 2019-11-23 18:17:21

Re: NOTICE: all fitness scores will reset to 30 tomorrow

#14 2019-11-23 18:20:50

Re: NOTICE: all fitness scores will reset to 30 tomorrow

#15 2019-11-23 18:29:10

Re: NOTICE: all fitness scores will reset to 30 tomorrow

#16 2019-11-23 18:36:51

Re: NOTICE: all fitness scores will reset to 30 tomorrow

#17 2019-11-23 18:47:57

Re: NOTICE: all fitness scores will reset to 30 tomorrow

#18 2019-11-23 19:03:59

Re: NOTICE: all fitness scores will reset to 30 tomorrow

#19 2019-11-23 19:15:26

Re: NOTICE: all fitness scores will reset to 30 tomorrow

#20 2019-11-23 19:19:48

Re: NOTICE: all fitness scores will reset to 30 tomorrow

#21 2019-11-23 19:26:39

Re: NOTICE: all fitness scores will reset to 30 tomorrow

#22 2019-11-23 19:49:15

Re: NOTICE: all fitness scores will reset to 30 tomorrow

#23 2019-11-23 20:31:04

Re: NOTICE: all fitness scores will reset to 30 tomorrow

#24 2019-11-23 20:36:37

Re: NOTICE: all fitness scores will reset to 30 tomorrow

#25 2019-11-23 20:56:48

Re: NOTICE: all fitness scores will reset to 30 tomorrow

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