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#1 2019-11-19 08:28:39

jasonrohrer
Administrator
Registered: 2017-02-13
Posts: 3,790

Update: Family Specialty

uocNfD8.png

The specialty biomes, which spawn sporadically in the center of the topographic map rings, include the jungle, arctic, and desert.  In this update, each of these biomes is assigned to one specialist family skin tone---they are the only people who are comfortable working there.  The other families must depend on this specialist family for help in getting necessary resources from this otherwise inhospitable area.  Fortunately, the resources found in these special biomes aren't needed until the later stages of a developing civilization.  Thus, families can live and work in isolation for a while before they are eventually forced to find each other and cooperate through trade.

While there are only three specialty biomes, there are currently four family skin tones.  The fourth skin tone has no biome specialty, but gains the polylingual ability to communicate with all the other families, so they can help with the coordination and trading efforts.

The general idea here is that as your village climbs the tech tree, you should face new and more complex challenges, including challenges that involve social interactions like negotiation and diplomacy.  Transportation networks between towns will go from an entertaining diversion to a necessary component for group survival.

Specialists can also build roads and buildings in their biome to make it traversable and hospitable for other families, so trading posts and gathering areas are possible.

To go along with these changes, some new content has been added in these biomes, with a new biome-locking feature ensuring that you have to visit those biomes to interact with that content.  For example, you have to visit the jungle in order to get a tattoo, and only a jungle specialist can perform the procedure for you.

The language learning system has been changed so that it always happens gradually over generations of cohabitation, at a fixed rate, and it can't be "forced" by spamming lots of training text to a baby.  As long as a baby hears a single utterance in the foreign language, they learn 10% of the remaining unknown letter clusters.  Even after many generations of living together, some interesting accents will linger.

A huge set of loading stability improvements have been implemented.  What happens when the data files the client is expecting to find aren't present or are corrupted?  It used to crash, now it doesn't.

The genetic fitness score has been overhauled to give you points based on how long you help your offspring survive beyond their own personal average.  Thus, you don't get punished for having a novice baby who dies young, as long as you help them live a bit longer than they usually do.  Genetic scores are much less impacted by luck in baby assignment now, but they are also unbounded in both the positive and negative direction (the scores used to naturally cap themselves between 0 and 60).

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#2 2019-11-19 08:59:35

Spoonwood
Member
Registered: 2019-02-06
Posts: 1,610

Re: Update: Family Specialty

This removes the ability of players to do certain things in their life because of their race.  The popular request 'need content' I supsect comes as the opposite of this.  It consists of a request for an ability to have more things which the player has the ability to do, not a request for something like a 'dropsy' disease which makes it impossible for a white person to pick a banana.

This also makes the game even further from realism.  Some black people are capable of working oil rigs in the snow, for example (only some people of every 'race' or 'type' can do certain things).  But, there are no average differences between the sexes in OHOL in terms of their abilities.  If you pick a woman at random it's more likely that she can't do some form of work than a random person of a given race can't do that form of work.

For all your talk of 'real play' Jason, you certainly haven't encouraged it with this racist change.

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#3 2019-11-19 09:41:59

unoriginal artist
Member
Registered: 2019-09-29
Posts: 2

Re: Update: Family Specialty

One of my kids was a returning player from prerift.... a deepwell was made in my lifetime and after playing a little bit the well ran out of water, my daughter i named lovely came up to me to ask what do we do if we cant make it into a newcomen becuase we were all white. I said.... wait for a brown person to come or hope someone finds someone brown to come here, or we all move again, I had been with that family for 2 lives and it was nomadic at first until settling in a few different towns. i was probably 3rd or 4th gen at the time.

My daughter did .... and then cursed and swore about Jason, she told me about returning and everything and then said she would rather kill herself off and not play again ever than try to figure out how to fix an issue that would take multiple people to fix within such a small time frame. We had almost no water so it was basically we need to move, I asked her to please live to 60 for.... MY GENE SCORE..........

She agreed and i went to hauling water from ponds at age 57 to bring to town, when i got back at age 59 or so i sat on fire waiting to die.... my daughter came up to me and told me she couldnt stand to live for another 30 minutes and starved b4 my eyes.... and then i died, of old age.

not good game.

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#4 2019-11-19 10:36:08

Spoonwood
Member
Registered: 2019-02-06
Posts: 1,610

Re: Update: Family Specialty

Also, I'm skeptical of hungry work and there's been some skepticism of hungry work in the discord.

Sure, someone can't kill sheep as fast, because of hungry work.  But a griefer can kill sheep and eat a lot more of the town's food with hungry work than before and still kill plenty of sheep.  Same goes for cutting trees, of course.

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#5 2019-11-19 11:30:52

miskas
Member
From: Greece
Registered: 2018-03-24
Posts: 577

Re: Update: Family Specialty

I was a born Male in Rain family that are translators.
My town had palm oil and a latex bucket from a previous family that was living there but had been gone.
we had a pump but needed a rubber.

At the age of 5, I left my city naked with a bowl full of berries to try to find sulfur, I went north.
I found an abandoned city full of cloths, carts but no rubber. I gear up, took a cart and headed north again with 2 buckets, a saddle and I also made a lasso on my way up. I ate my berry bowl that helped me reach this far to make room for my 2 buckets saddle and lasso.

I was going straight, following dry springs with Gradients. Reaching further north, dry shrines stopped and now I knew Tha I am far from any civ! Where do I go? Do i have to go east now , from previous lifes I knew that it not at all easy to find other civs. I said fuck it I will try north again and I was rewarded, a dry spring was next and with North Gradients as well!

I follow the Gradient and met a black tribe, I gave them my buckets and put out the saddle and lasso and asked for sulfur and a horse. They were primitive, only a shallow well. But they could understand me and we went together right away to the near-desert for the sulfur. They didn't have and adze so they promised me that they will tame a horse if I bring them latex. I took 3 bowls of sulfer and headed back home taking some more stuff from the abandoned camp.

Reaching home I gather my family with a lot of whistles to tell them about it. They start right away to work on rubber, soon enough we had water.
I used the two extra tires to upgrade my cart and make sure it will not decay soon. Head north again, We had no more latex but I remembered the abandoned camp had some.

Before I leave home I tried to take some palm oil bowls with me but...cough cough...uncontainable. Thank god the abandoned city had some kernels as well.  I took an adze as well to make sure I will have my horse.

Upon reaching the blacks I made them a fence for horse and a granny went to bring in my horse. I told them to fill it with sulfer, grany was old so I found a young girl for this. they cooked my kernels and I went find a skewer, We made rubber and I took 1 of the 4 tires. I was going to tell my people to move north closer to then and one tire would be a nice show of that there is wealth there.

On my way back while I was passing from the abandoned city I Saw 2 ladies, 2 white ladies. I asked thme where is their home, the one lady said close, about 200 tiles. We headed this way. Upon reaching I was getting older so I wanted to make sure I pass my knowledge I told her that black people are north fron abandoned city and my tribe is south. I told them to move to the abandoned village and that I will tell my family to come as well. Then I wanted to make sure that they will be able to rehabilitate the place so I gave them the tire to use it on pump. After that, I run straight to my fam.

Upon reaching, people at their 40s were talking, I told them about all the stuff I knew and to transfer the knowledge to the rest of the tribe.
Big abandoned city north, Black and white people are north, move there. it has rubber. Tell the others to Take our stuff and move!
They weren't so interested so I gone to the young girls, thank god they knew what had to be done. I was running up and down my village, whistling and informing the more I could. After I was done I parked my cart and died next to it. leaving my gear for the next traveler to pick it up.


Jason I had to walk more of 800 tiles distance up and down to do all these, quickly spot food and dangers in the wild (a lot of wolves and bears), navigate through biome dead ends. Have instant map awareness of the new cities I visited, be able to stay on track without losing my way, Spot other people while moving.  The new update can be nice for modders, but do you think it can be played from a 11*6 box? I had zoom of course but you don't really need all of it. Giving vanilla players a 17*10 view would enable them to properly play the new update, don't you think that?

Last edited by miskas (2019-11-19 12:35:35)


Killing a griefer kills him for 10 minutes, Cursing him kills him for 30 Days.

4 curses kill him for all of us,  Mass Cursing bring us Peace! Please Curse!

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#6 2019-11-19 12:02:24

Kinrany
Member
Registered: 2018-01-22
Posts: 378

Re: Update: Family Specialty

Miskas, honestly this is a great story. And in the context of the update it's an even greater story of the Man vs Author kind :)

It's also a story only a veteran player would be able to tell. But that's fine as long as there are veteran players to tell the story, and as long as the other players will be able to hear it.

I'm 60% sure at this point that Jason is a trickster god who knows exactly what he's doing, and that forums are a part of the game.

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#7 2019-11-19 14:13:20

MapleSugar
Member
Registered: 2019-10-30
Posts: 21

Re: Update: Family Specialty

Jason,Plz tell me how to find other family
Its too hard, I spent 3 hours, but I can find only one family
And there is no Brown family now! How do we make rubber!?


Sorry my poor english.
---  ....  ---  .-..

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#8 2019-11-19 14:55:17

miskas
Member
From: Greece
Registered: 2018-03-24
Posts: 577

Re: Update: Family Specialty

MapleSugar wrote:

Jason,Plz tell me how to find other family
Its too hard, I spent 3 hours, but I can find only one family
And there is no Brown family now! How do we make rubber!?

have you zoom?
Do you follow springs with gradients?
https://onetech.info/3191-Eastward-Gradient-Dry-Spring

Last edited by miskas (2019-11-19 14:56:00)


Killing a griefer kills him for 10 minutes, Cursing him kills him for 30 Days.

4 curses kill him for all of us,  Mass Cursing bring us Peace! Please Curse!

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#9 2019-11-19 16:18:24

psyduck
Member
Registered: 2019-10-25
Posts: 12

Re: Update: Family Specialty

miskas wrote:
MapleSugar wrote:

Jason,Plz tell me how to find other family
Its too hard, I spent 3 hours, but I can find only one family
And there is no Brown family now! How do we make rubber!?

have you zoom?
Do you follow springs with gradients?
https://onetech.info/3191-Eastward-Gradient-Dry-Spring


I know he is a vanilla player and has the latest knowledge.

The vanilla player has neither coordinates nor zoom.

I don't think recommending MOD to address these issues is the answer.

However, my thinking will change if Jason officially recommends mods for this game.


I can stay here thanks to Google Translate.

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#10 2019-11-19 16:47:24

Spoonwood
Member
Registered: 2019-02-06
Posts: 1,610

Re: Update: Family Specialty

miskas wrote:

...

Elsewhere you said that you knew the map.  In addition to using mods, did you also rely on the biome patterns of the map that you had seen in previous lives also when you trekked between families?  On the topography of the map?

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#11 2019-11-19 17:07:11

miskas
Member
From: Greece
Registered: 2018-03-24
Posts: 577

Re: Update: Family Specialty

Spoonwood wrote:
miskas wrote:

...

Elsewhere you said that you knew the map.  In addition to using mods, did you also rely on the biome patterns of the map that you had seen in previous lives also when you trekked between families?  On the topography of the map?

the topography of biomes, no.  I relly springs gradients, on human footprint, camps, and villages, I have played and travel so much today that I have visited like 6 villages and 3 camps. I have learned the current part of the map through constant traveling all my life. I have played 5 hours in total.

Not yet spawned as a brown but one brown managed to come to the north village of Translators (former black village). He was there when I visited them as black from south. I think He said that he came from 400 tiles west. Too bad he died before give birth. I took the last tire back home though, to ginger and black people. I also let my daughter there to breed.

the brown lady , http://lineage.onehouronelife.com/serve … id=5509089

Brown wherever you are, come back east, to civilization! Help us and we will help you! tongue

Last edited by miskas (2019-11-19 17:12:04)


Killing a griefer kills him for 10 minutes, Cursing him kills him for 30 Days.

4 curses kill him for all of us,  Mass Cursing bring us Peace! Please Curse!

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#12 2019-11-19 17:48:35

jasonrohrer
Administrator
Registered: 2017-02-13
Posts: 3,790

Re: Update: Family Specialty

Miskas, this is SO CLOSE to what I'm shooting for.  You were on a real quest there, and it paid off.  You couldn't just stand around the fire and sluff your way through the "challenges" of building a pump for the 100th time.  You had to think on your feet.


I don't want you to have to walk that far, and I'm trying to figure out why people are so spread out.  Eves are spawned 200 tiles apart...

However, you could take a map with you to mark the town you find.  Maps are primitive (blue paper).  Still, 800 is a long distance.

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#13 2019-11-19 17:58:58

miskas
Member
From: Greece
Registered: 2018-03-24
Posts: 577

Re: Update: Family Specialty

jasonrohrer wrote:

Miskas, this is SO CLOSE to what I'm shooting for.  You were on a real quest there, and it paid off.  You couldn't just stand around the fire and sluff your way through the "challenges" of building a pump for the 100th time.  You had to think on your feet.


I don't want you to have to walk that far, and I'm trying to figure out why people are so spread out.  Eves are spawned 200 tiles apart...

However, you could take a map with you to mark the town you find.  Maps are primitive (blue paper).  Still, 800 is a long distance.

I have spread maps, but relying on the Mode users to do the work is what you want?


Killing a griefer kills him for 10 minutes, Cursing him kills him for 30 Days.

4 curses kill him for all of us,  Mass Cursing bring us Peace! Please Curse!

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#14 2019-11-19 18:51:11

Spoonwood
Member
Registered: 2019-02-06
Posts: 1,610

Re: Update: Family Specialty

I'm curious with respect to what average generation length is after this change in comparison to the week after the Rift and before this change.  I would guess it's down, but I have to wonder how much.

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#15 2019-11-19 18:55:25

wondible
Member
Registered: 2018-04-19
Posts: 491

Re: Update: Family Specialty

jasonrohrer wrote:

I don't want you to have to walk that far, and I'm trying to figure out why people are so spread out.  Eves are spawned 200 tiles apart...

I think there are situations where an eve spawn is consumed but not placed. There is also failure to survive to contend with of course.


https://onemap.wondible.com/ -- https://wondible.com/ohol-family-trees/ -- https://wondible.com/ohol-name-picker/
Custom client with edge push, autorun, click priority tweaks, shiver/sweat, time hints, name completion, emotion keys, and interaction keys

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#16 2019-11-19 19:05:14

Spoonwood
Member
Registered: 2019-02-06
Posts: 1,610

Re: Update: Family Specialty

This change also makes war swords even more problematic.  Warring between families is even more contradictory with other parts of the game.

No really.  If you're a member of one of the darker skinned races, it might seem plausible to kill the other browns or blacks for the rubber or sulfur that they have lying around.  That could have short term benefits for one race.  But, since the inability to interact in biomes is permanent, killing off neighbor races may well cripple your descendants abilities to continue to make rubber.

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#17 2019-11-19 20:28:30

Spoonwood
Member
Registered: 2019-02-06
Posts: 1,610

Re: Update: Family Specialty

miskas wrote:

Jason I had to walk more of 800 tiles distance up and down to do all these, quickly spot food and dangers in the wild (a lot of wolves and bears), navigate through biome dead ends. Have instant map awareness of the new cities I visited, be able to stay on track without losing my way, Spot other people while moving.  The new update can be nice for modders, but do you think it can be played from a 11*6 box? I had zoom of course but you don't really need all of it. Giving vanilla players a 17*10 view would enable them to properly play the new update, don't you think that?

jasonrohrer wrote:

Miskas, this is SO CLOSE to what I'm shooting for.

Miskas did this once.  No offense to Miskas intended, but I don't see any reason to believe that s/he or anyone else trying to find another town could be relied on to do so, and even more so if he or she doesn't have a zoom mod.  If it's not likely that someone in town can do such reliably, then that town is not likely to complete the technology tree and only will survive by importing water from dug up springs or by migrating and eating more wild food.

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#18 2019-11-19 22:47:41

Keyin
Member
Registered: 2019-05-09
Posts: 191

Re: Update: Family Specialty

miskas wrote:

Upon reaching the blacks I made them a fence for horse and a granny went to bring in my horse. I told them to fill it with sulfer, grany was old so I found a young girl for this.

I was the old granny! Nice! I was wondering how you had so much when the server had been so recently shut down ... tongue

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#19 2019-11-19 23:51:01

MapleSugar
Member
Registered: 2019-10-30
Posts: 21

Re: Update: Family Specialty

miskas wrote:
MapleSugar wrote:

Jason,Plz tell me how to find other family
Its too hard, I spent 3 hours, but I can find only one family
And there is no Brown family now! How do we make rubber!?

have you zoom?
Do you follow springs with gradients?
https://onetech.info/3191-Eastward-Gradient-Dry-Spring

Yea Miskas, I knew well site's grid and how to watch it. Besides I rode a horse! But I couldn't.
Mods are so useful, but, in my opinion, if a game isn't playable without Mods, that game can't be called good game.


Sorry my poor english.
---  ....  ---  .-..

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#20 2019-11-20 00:50:21

Angel Carrillo
Member
Registered: 2018-04-10
Posts: 242

Re: Update: Family Specialty

Jason, what does it mean, now that Genetic Fitness (GF) can go infinitely in both directions?

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#21 2019-11-20 17:06:24

Bremidon
Member
Registered: 2019-11-08
Posts: 34

Re: Update: Family Specialty

Jason, what happens if one of my children has a score above 60.  Does that mean I'm getting a lower score no matter what I do?  Even if (s)he lives to 60, that will be below their 60+ score.

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#22 2019-11-20 17:43:11

wondible
Member
Registered: 2018-04-19
Posts: 491

Re: Update: Family Specialty

Bremidon wrote:

Jason, what happens if one of my children has a score above 60.  Does that mean I'm getting a lower score no matter what I do?  Even if (s)he lives to 60, that will be below their 60+ score.

It's based on a separate hidden average age, not their score. Nobody can live over 60, nevermind getting an average that high.


https://onemap.wondible.com/ -- https://wondible.com/ohol-family-trees/ -- https://wondible.com/ohol-name-picker/
Custom client with edge push, autorun, click priority tweaks, shiver/sweat, time hints, name completion, emotion keys, and interaction keys

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#23 2019-11-27 06:26:59

Spoonwood
Member
Registered: 2019-02-06
Posts: 1,610

Re: Update: Family Specialty

Jason,

I've seen some clues that these race restrictions don't seem to work out so well.

1. I watched a longterm Twitch streamer Wolvenscar, who plays the default client, comment that traveling was no longer fun.  Even though horsecarts overcome the obstacles of the dropsy, unless your family is black, the dropsy isn't so fun.

2. Reports of people forming multiracial settlements.  I've seen this on streams also as I recall.  People choosing multiracial settlements I find great.  It means that their culture isn't a prejudiced one.  But, it's not trading.

3. Lava's post where he trades, but the family becomes multiracial rather quickly, which shows that trading isn't very efficent: https://onehouronelife.com/forums/viewtopic.php?id=8533

4. WomanWizard's comment where she says: 

WomanWizard wrote:

Those two times I tried to play around with some of the racially locked content (and I'm sorry Jason, but locking content behind race is highly problematic and "predicting people would get offended" doesn't excuse it), but then I was back to being white on the next go with nothing new to play around with.

  https://onehouronelife.com/forums/viewtopic.php?id=8569  I will note that she has streamed OHOL on Twitch in the past, as I've seen her play.  She also states:

WomanWizard wrote:

I like being in a different situation every time, possibly ending up with a newbie child who needs my guidance to get by. I enjoyed the challenge we had with the newbie boom, though admittedly that one time I ran away from home because we had no water and then popped out twenty-one kids in my new home (most of them new) was a little overwhelming.

She also told me once that though she did Eve runs only keeping children after preparing some basics for a camp, she would keep all children, because she kind of enjoyed the challenge from all the chaos of it or something like that.  She also said things like "gotta heat them farmers" pre-temperature overhaul as I recall, a further clue that she's tried to really care about new players while also trying to have fun. 

Personally speaking, I only found OHOL and played it because of some Twitch streamers.  It has happened before that a Twitch streamer stopped playing and the reasons why seem clear.  Specifically, a user named Buggy who had said on stream that she streamed the game because she wanted more to play it/because she thought they should.  At the time she said:

Buggy wrote:

The race war update is definitely ruining the game for me. I can't find my children if I leave them for a second because everyone in town looks the same, goodluck finding your own child on the baby fire. I have been learning how to use the freestanding Newcomen tower and now people can just turn my rods to swords when I am trying to make pipes. I don't want to not trust people based on their race that is a terrible feeling. The language barrier thing is funny for a bit, but then you realize in low pop servers you can't talk to your neighbours anymore. All the low pop servers were wiped too rip all the work put in there. I really liked playing a game where people were working together to build long lasting cities and lineages it is sad that the game is moving away from that to some warring clan game.

I saw her play a little after the server wipes... but she quit streaming and probably isn't playing at all.  Even if she's playing, she's not streaming, so that's an update resulting in less out there.

So, I think you ignore a clue like that at your own peril.

Imagine this:

The apocalypse happened in such a way where some people had specialized knowledge survived.  But, that knowledge was more about how well to do a particular task.  For example, some Boots who survived the apocalypse had knowledge of *how to make* an object which some German who survived the apocalypse doesn't have.  Such an object JUST improves the amount of resources that can get obtained from doing something.  Like there's some object that Boots has knowledge to make which enables to get two tanks of kerosone from tarry spot instead of just one.  That knowledge gets passed down through each generation also, even though Boots won't be applying that knowledge herself.  People have changed such that they no longer can remember such pre-apoclyptic knowledge if they stand too far away from where some Boots, German, Bear, or Uno spawned (I don't quite like this... seems too silly even in a post-apocalyptic scenario, but it might limit multicultural settlements).  Also, for some unknown reason when people pop into a post-apocalyptic world the first person would have knowledge on how to get more from a rubber tree, the second how to get more oil from a well, and so on.

Such a scenario would seem to enable modern people to still do things without being restricted by their race.  It would involve more items appearing in the post-apocalyptic world.  Those tools would increase efficiency of advanced tasks, so trading would be beneficial to such people.  And multiple villages trading would be more useful than multiracial settlements, since people wandering away from where their primary ancestor when she survived the apocalypse would just make it less likely that the tools to increase efficiency could get made.

Anyways, maybe you find such a post-apocalyptic scenario interesting or useful Jason.  It would also make sense since people have differed in their knowledge on the basis of what they were taught or learned before some disaster to their civilization.

Oh and people could do trading because it was useful to make their civilization and survival chances better.  Trading might not so damn forced down people's throats.  More like it would taste more sweet for a family to trade than to not trade.  And as the saying goes, you catch more flies with honey than with vinegar.

Last edited by Spoonwood (2019-11-27 06:27:44)

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#24 2019-12-04 09:46:49

Spoonwood
Member
Registered: 2019-02-06
Posts: 1,610

Re: Update: Family Specialty

Jason,

In case you missed this in another thread:

fug wrote:

Taking a peak at the server population (really off hour but the point stands) we have four families which seems pretty good except we have some MAJOR problems.

-Two of the families are ginger, one is white, one is black. No browns at all on the server which means the tech tree can't be climbed any further than deep well. Once the whites/west side gingers run out of water they've got to move or fetch it.

-Holy shit are people way too spread. Pika gingers live 10k~ west of the bell, Fran whites live about 8k~ and Dobbie blacks + Kontz gingers live at or very close to the bell. How in Gods name are people supposed to trade or do anything if the needed specialty family (in this case dobbie or the nonexistent brown family) are that far away? Even once a brown family spawns the blacks are too far away to help them do anything and the gingers/whites are useless on their own basically.

https://onehouronelife.com/forums/viewtopic.php?id=8618

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