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#1 2019-10-26 06:52:52

jasonrohrer
Administrator
Registered: 2017-02-13
Posts: 4,581

Update: Tool Skill

KfB4PcJ.png

You now have between 8 and 16 tool learning slots in your lifetime, depending on your genetic fitness.  Each tool that you learn consumes one of your slots.  You can't learn everything, so you must chose carefully and coordinate your efforts with those around you.

A more complete explanation of this idea is described here:

http://onehouronelife.com/forums/viewtopic.php?id=8181

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#2 2019-10-26 10:04:37

sigmen4020
Member
Registered: 2019-01-05
Posts: 747

Re: Update: Tool Skill

Where are the gifs? sad

Last edited by sigmen4020 (2019-10-26 10:04:49)


All hail the resurgence of tortilla chips!!

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#3 2019-10-26 12:50:01

wondible
Member
Registered: 2018-04-19
Posts: 694

Re: Update: Tool Skill

sigmen4020 wrote:

Where are the gifs? sad

jasonrohrer wrote:

Regarding GIFs, they were cool, but a ton of work (usually at least an hour of extra work per week).  In the latest Steam update, Steam started requiring a large image for every news post, and GIF was not supported.  I needed to make still images for Steam.... and I definitely couldn't afford to make 2 images every week.


https://onemap.wondible.com/ -- https://wondible.com/ohol-family-trees/ -- https://wondible.com/ohol-name-picker/
Custom client with edge push, autorun, click priority tweaks, shiver/sweat, time hints, name completion, emotion keys, interaction keys, learned tools

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#4 2019-10-26 15:13:50

antking:]#
Member
Registered: 2018-12-29
Posts: 492

Re: Update: Tool Skill

How come cars, and planes are tools? while horse carts, and horse carts with tires are not?

And I think that these tool are missing:

Bait bag
Snare
stomper (for crock pot)
track kit
drop spindle
mallet
horse cart
horse cart rubber

and if you want to be extra Cruella:

baskets
(old) hand carts
hand carts with tires
(old) wheelbarrow


"hear how the wind begins to whisper, but now it screams at me" said ashe
"I remember it from a Life I never Lived" said Peaches
"Now Chad don't invest in Asian markets" said Chad's Mom
Herry the man who cheated death

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#5 2019-10-26 15:20:42

miskas
Member
From: Greece
Registered: 2018-03-24
Posts: 987

Re: Update: Tool Skill

I learned the pads without using them, just by picking them from a bowl. Is this intended for a reason?

If it is , it means people wont be able to move 1 pad to another bowl without use  a tool slot


Killing a griefer kills him for 10 minutes, Cursing him kills him for 30 Days.

4 curses kill him for all of us,  Mass Cursing bring us Peace! Please Curse!

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#6 2019-10-26 15:32:49

StrongForce
Member
Registered: 2018-03-09
Posts: 407

Re: Update: Tool Skill

Hell yes love it


Baby dance!!

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#7 2019-10-27 06:38:16

Kinrany
Member
Registered: 2018-01-22
Posts: 682

Re: Update: Tool Skill

Yay, this is interesting!

It'd be cool if the restriction was less artificial. It's true that one can learn only so many skills in a lifetime, but only because our time is limited. Over time humans got dramatically better at teaching each other. It'd feel better if learning was limited by time and resources.

I love that games like OHOL allow us to learn about real society, but there are two dangers:
1. Inconsistent rules and hardcoded, non-emergent outcomes that turn the game into a just-so story.
2. Consistent, but unrealistic rules that turn the game into a rigged thought experiment.

Another thing: I wonder if recipes would be a better unit of learning instead of items. For example, you could learn a random recipe associated with the tool every time you try to use a recipe you don't know.

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#8 2019-10-27 18:24:08

StrongForce
Member
Registered: 2018-03-09
Posts: 407

Re: Update: Tool Skill

This update made it clear to me there is no too late to change something.

This update will be an integral part to many additions to the game. I love how evolving this game

Being able to do something others can't creates value
Once we have way more Hightech tools there will be a real demand for specialist.


Baby dance!!

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#9 2019-11-20 00:57:49

Spoonwood
Member
Registered: 2019-02-06
Posts: 2,870

Re: Update: Tool Skill

Was it intended that an individual playing by their self according to all appearances on a low population server has the tool skill limitation?  Because, only so many tool slots exist for such people from what I've seen.

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#10 2019-11-20 06:32:31

Spoonwood
Member
Registered: 2019-02-06
Posts: 2,870

Re: Update: Tool Skill

So I played a few lives on a low population server from 11/19 to 11/20.  No one else joined me.  I started with 7 tool slots.  I had some lag in my 2nd life, so my early clay and charcoal making got slowed down.  Like could only fire 4 clay at one time, and couldn't fire charcoal that life, but fortunately my connection got better next life.

On my third life, I make some more clay to make up for what happened with my internet issue.  I have 7 out of 8 pie types layed out which don't require steel tools, 8 pie plates, the extra is a 2nd rabbit pie, and a turkey all layed out.  I hunted some turkeys, brought one back on my head, so I used the bow and arrow skill.  I also used up the needle and thread sewing up my bellows which I forgot to do in a previous life, since I'm a bit rusty and forgot about that earlier.  The whole idea behind the pies lies in that I can get my yum up early, and that means I don't have to watch my pips at the end of my life.  Now, it's easier than when it was just 4 pips at the end of my life (I'm ending with I think 8 pips of food potentially full at the end of my life).  But, early yum is still nice.  I fire up my kilns and fire some more clay.  I go and light my oven to cook the pies and the turkey so I should have the ability to continuously yum after that.  And... I'm out of tool slots.  No one else can jump in either, and most of the motivations behind tool slots seem in line with interpersonal interactions as stated here: https://onehouronelife.com/forums/viewtopic.php?id=8181  And I find 3. interesting:

jasonrohrer wrote:

3. To force you to study and understand the most pressing problems facing your village now, and the problems it will likely be facing in the near future.

The most important problem in Eve-chaining play has been how to consistently ensure that you will live to life to 60, or how to have a system to get back to your spot, like a road network and belltowers.  But, I couldn't solve it, because I ran out of tool slots and couldn't cook at the oven (no I didn't starve... I can watch the pip meter closely without yum, but prefer yumming, as it's nicer in an organized town).  I had cooked over hot coals another skill, also, since eggs are nice to have for yum also.  I also chopped up kindling.

So, that's

1. bow and arrow
2. stone hatchet (I didn't just chop kindling come to think of it... I ALSO chopped up squash that life... which was relevant to my town's main concern).
3. hot coals
4. wooden tongs
5. firing adobe kiln
6. needle and thread
7. fire bow drill.

If I don't use the bow and arrow, I can't cook the turkey.  If I don't use the stone hatchet, I can't make the stew.  If I don't use hot coals, I couldn't do eggs or stew.  If I don't use wooden tongs, I wouldn't have enough clay for the pies and only cooking in the oven via fire isn't as efficient as both using the kiln and the oven.  If I didn't use the needle and thread, I wouldn't have been prepared for smithing in the next life to get steel tools up (above all else, a horsecart is nice to avoid predators).  And well fire bow drill is just plain out as not using, I think that's clear without saying a word.

And to state things as clear as I can, I didn't have any children... so help was out of the question.

So, I'm at a complete loss with respect to the 'why' of what the tool skill system was suppose to fulfill in my game.  It even seems to be inconsistent with 3:

jasonrohrer wrote:

To force you to study and understand the most pressing problems facing your village now, and the problems it will likely be facing in the near future.

And I found it annoying to run out of tool slots.  I won't have the yummy pies next life, and have to spend two skills to cook them, then when I smith I'll need wooden tongs, hammer, axe if want a large slow fire (5), I don't have shoes, so that's the adze also (6), oh... and I need to kill and cook a duck before I can get an oiled file blank (didn't do that last life), but supposing I had, I could use the chisel skill, but I couldn't use both the chisel and the shovel to dig up my local spring.

This starts to seem like some sort of contest to see how few tools one can use to get things done, but I think it will just get worse and worse, since I'll always need to use fire bow drill, wooden tongs, and firing adobe kiln while smithing.  If I use the tools that I make in that life... well, then I won't be able to cook, even though it's the most efficient use of fire to smith and then cook.

Also, my genetic score hasn't budged an inch and my low population lives aren't registering in my 'recent genetic history' screen, but maybe that's intentional.

Eve chaining with a very low genetic score?  With something like 2 tool skills?  That sounds even worse.

Last edited by Spoonwood (2019-11-20 06:44:01)

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#11 2019-11-20 07:50:41

Spoonwood
Member
Registered: 2019-02-06
Posts: 2,870

Re: Update: Tool Skill

Also, I effectively have 6 tool slots open at most every life for Eve-chaining.  I mean, if someone hostile comes along, I'll have to defend myself or my town, which means another tool slot for a weapon.

3 tool slots open for a player trying to Eve-chain on 3 tool slots would be more like 2 tool slots open.  And that's not even enough to forge clay, let alone use a hammer and an axe.

I have no idea why players with low genetic score would be blocked from making a town on a low population server where they have to take responsibility for everything in the town at some point in time, or be ready to do so if they don't get help.  But, that is the way this system works.

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#12 2019-11-20 19:21:33

Spoonwood
Member
Registered: 2019-02-06
Posts: 2,870

Re: Update: Tool Skill

The tool skill system is disabled in the tutorial area, but enabled when someone is the only person on a server.  I don't understand that inconsistency.

Last edited by Spoonwood (2019-11-21 04:36:22)

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#13 2019-11-21 12:15:36

StrongForce
Member
Registered: 2018-03-09
Posts: 407

Re: Update: Tool Skill

If I see your name I don't read it
Sorry but this grabbing for attention and whining on necro posts is just too much


Baby dance!!

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#14 2019-11-21 13:46:24

Spoonwood
Member
Registered: 2019-02-06
Posts: 2,870

Re: Update: Tool Skill

StrongForce wrote:

If I see your name I don't read it
Sorry but this grabbing for attention and whining on necro posts is just too much

And you think that you were the intended reader?

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#15 2019-11-21 21:34:16

Spoonwood
Member
Registered: 2019-02-06
Posts: 2,870

Re: Update: Tool Skill

I've tried looking for players to play with on low-pop servers, checking the reflector.  Had a few lives where I end up as an Eve in the wild, and then I spend time dying somehow (mosquitoes are the quickest if all dangers are equally close), or wandered around looking for clues of others, and then spend time dying after that.

I joined in with someone who said she made her town last night.  She had a property fence sheep pen, something I really hadn't expected to see on a low population server.  She used a needle and thread from milkweed despite having sheep.  She didn't have shears.  I made her shears at some point.  She also had an old hand-cart at the beginning of my life.  My preference has been to just get a horsecart up, but I've seen the approach of making rubber every life so that you have some cart every life.  I didn't talk to her about her overall projects or what she wanted to pursue much.  She had a shallow well, so I got some rope, make two buckets, and leave one with a stanchion kit and the other one by the well (just adze skill), so that they are ready to go later, and I think that if she wants to do engine work, planning ahead like that is desired.  Poop ends up on the ground by the sheep pen also, I'm not sure if I made the sheep or not.  I remember about decay, so I also think somewhere along the line I start to think about making compost.  She had a backpack, I didn't, so I also end up hunting rabbits nearby and plan to make a backpack, and as I recall I did.

I double checked with her that she doesn't have shears in case my eyes missed them.  She doesn't have shears.  She had a fire going, but I think I left town during that time to do the backpack.  She tells me she's going to shoot a boar around this time I think, and also that she's done playing for the day.  I know I'm going to end up by myself at the end of my life.  I start a fire (fire bow drill, hot coals), fire up the kiln (tongs and forge), use the hammer to beat out the steel blade blanks... I file them, and... I'm out of tool slots.  I put the shears in place by the sheep pen as I remember and she's dead at sixty or is on her last breath.  I can't use the shovel to make compost.  I have to watch it decay to nothing, something I have tried to actively prevent in my towns even if it means I end up with compost all over the place.  I can't get her a horse even for a horsecart.  All I can do is suggest a place for them by leaving a fence kit, and I think the shovel near there.  I hadn't thought of it, before, but I couldn't make a note for her either... had someone leave me a note after I died in one of my towns before, and I thought it rather nice.

I spent my remaining time gathering some rope and iron, and at the last minute trying to make an adobe wall sheep pen for her town... which I botched by trying to connect to her property fence sheep pen, so the property fence side might decay (or be on the verge of decaying when she comes back?  I don't know how decay works in that situation... I digress here).  I could still help her town out.  But, it does happen that people end up as the last person in a family by their own self sometimes.  Dying on the bigserver is bad for genetic score if you're an adult, but if such a person runs out of tool slots, I don't see how they could expect much but to look at the landscape.  Like, trying to learn something that the player hasn't done before in the game, or a step towards that something, with the remaining time left in their life?  I would expect that such a person runs out of tool slots just like I did in her town rather quickly.  I don't know if any of the intended objectives CAN get fulfilled then (stated as well as unstated).  I suspect none of them can.

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