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a multiplayer game of parenting and civilization building

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#1 2019-10-19 20:51:13

jasonrohrer
Administrator
Registered: 2017-02-13
Posts: 3,624

Update: Cartography

ipWWNf3.png

One of the arcs last week was much closer to being the gripping, collective story that I'm trying to create.  Someone built an Endtower near the center of the map and surrounded it with a maze full of locked doors.  While some players tried to protect and rebuild the Endtower to usher in the apocalypse, others grouped together and used locksmithing techniques to chip their way into the center of the maze.  I've always hoped that this kind of player-created quest would emerge.

But how do you find your way to this maze?  Once you find it, how do you tell others how to get there?  And how many interesting mechanics are available for a would-be maze builder?

The new map-making feature allows all kinds of interesting interactions.  You make a map by standing in a target location and speaking a title while holding the map and a piece of charcoal.  After that, whoever picks up the map will automatically adjust their current navigation point to that destination.  Like any written piece of paper, maps can be stored in backpacks or locked away in chests.  They can also be erased to be reused, or made permanent with the help of an elder.

I'm still working on that whole "oil eventually runs out" thing, and as I do, maps will be helpful to locate and exploit the remaining oil resources.

But in previous arcs, I realized that oil was never even necessary for long-term water pumping, because more low tech wells could be built when the first set of them ran out.  Yes, spring heads are far apart, but not that far apart.  They need to be somewhat close together to give you enough options in terms of settlement locations.  But as a result, the rift has hundreds of them, which is just way too much water if they are all exploited with low-tech wells.

To solve this problem, building a well on a given spring head now permanently taps out neighboring spring heads in an 80-tile square radius.  Think of a long straw drinking your neighbor's milkshake.  Now instead of hundreds of exploitable spring heads, there are at most dozens.  By tweaking this radius in the future, I can adjust the amount of low tech water available without reducing the number of viable settlement locations.

Hopefully, we're getting closer to low tech water actually running out, and thus dependence on oil for high tech water, and eventually oil itself running out.  My goal for the game is that a village always needs to be on its collective toes.

You probably noticed that backpacks stopped decaying a while back.  My general design philosophy here has changed a bit.  Instead of an endless supply of resources that allow you to constantly re-make old and broken things, I'm more interested in forcing you to make difficult choices with a limited supply of resources.  The non-consumable things that you decide to make can last forever.  But did you make the right thing at the right time?

Backpacks were still hooked into a vestigial piece of the old, infinitely-regenerating resource system.  After making one snare, you could catch an unlimited number of rabbits with no further resource inputs, and rabbits were respawning almost hourly.  Rabbits also represented one of the last few infinitely regenerating and resource-free wild food sources.

As a result of this mismatch, in a recent arc, I personally visited a village that had 50 surplus backpacks stored away.  Backpacks were so plentiful as to be worthless.  Nothing in this game should be worthless.  You should never make something without carefully weighing the costs and benefits.  Backpacks had very little cost, so over time, many generations of villagers had made them until they collectively had amassed a whole pile of them.

Snaring rabbits now has a resource input, in the form of bait.  This is is one way that people actually do it in real life, as I'll let this gentleman from Kentucky explain:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jk6FgpbQwck

Bait can be made either from a finite natural resource or a cultivated food resource that requires water to grow.  So rabbits are now part of the water resource economy, as they should be.

There are also a bunch of little fixes. The posse speed-boost exploit has been fixed, and some glitches with the blue hint arrows have been cleared up.  Framerates in cities with lots of floors has been improved on slower graphics cards.

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#2 2019-10-19 22:17:58

CatX
Member
From: Norway
Registered: 2019-02-11
Posts: 434

Re: Update: Cartography

jasonrohrer wrote:

As a result of this mismatch, in a recent arc, I personally visited a village that had 50 surplus backpacks stored away.  Backpacks were so plentiful as to be worthless.

If backpacks were worthless, nobody would be using them.
They don't lose their value because there are plenty to be found.
Granted, people don't fight over backpacks if there are enough for everyone. But is the presence of conflict over an item what defines its value in your mind? And not its usefulness?

Sometimes it feels like you don't understand your own game, Jason...

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#3 2019-10-19 22:52:36

fug
Member
Registered: 2019-08-21
Posts: 176

Re: Update: Cartography

Would rate the update -1/10.

Maps are probably okay but it is straight up frustrating to constantly have to walk back between rabbit holes because you cannot carry both bait and a snare until you have a backpack. This means you need to make 10 treks back and forth between the same holes just to collect up the rabbits. After about six rabbits I said fuck it and just used a basket since for the most part early game I didn't really need the backpack.

Feels retarded frankly that you need a cart to effectively catch rabbits in the game since you cannot hold everything you need to catch rabbits in the first place. Add in the fact if you were carting rabbits back to town you'd need a rubber wheeled cart to dress a single person.

Update both didn't hit the mark (just made rabbits more annoying without messing with the massive amount of free food they give) while also making the game worse. Another update where people (rightfully) question whether you know how your own game works.


Worlds oldest SID baby.

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#4 2019-10-19 23:24:15

seth
Member
Registered: 2018-02-28
Posts: 85

Re: Update: Cartography

This sounds like a solid change! Hopeful for meaningful adventures to keep civilization afloat..

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#5 2019-10-20 00:55:39

Spoonwood
Member
Registered: 2019-02-06
Posts: 1,329

Re: Update: Cartography

I heard that bait has to stay on flat rock?  Doesn't really make sense that animal feed can't fit in spots like regular food does.  And it sounds rather tedious to have to carry a flattie around to catch a rabbit, let alone a bunch of them.

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#6 2019-10-20 01:13:08

jasonrohrer
Administrator
Registered: 2017-02-13
Posts: 3,624

Re: Update: Cartography

You can carry burdock in a basket, along with two snares.  At the rabbit site, you can find a flat stone (and leave it there) to chop the burdock, giving you enough bait for 3 rabbits.  Bring the 3 rabbits home in the basket.  The only real difference here is spending burdock for this purpose.

Once burdock is exhausted, a cart would indeed be useful to bring multiple bowls of bait to the rabbit area.  But there are other options for producing bait at the rabbit site.  You now have tanks to carry water, etc.

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#7 2019-10-20 02:34:04

Spoonwood
Member
Registered: 2019-02-06
Posts: 1,329

Re: Update: Cartography

jasonrohrer wrote:

At the rabbit site, you can find a flat stone  ...

Huh?  My recollection is that flat rocks spawn in the badlands or desert, not in the prairie.  Leaving the flattie in the prairie sounds better than what I was thinking, but then again it wouldn't be hard to move, and it's probably out from town where no one watches what goes on.

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#8 2019-10-20 03:14:26

Booklat1
Member
Registered: 2018-07-21
Posts: 1,016

Re: Update: Cartography

The need for berries (and bowls too) once burdocks run out is rather lame. This could've been made without as much hassle if bait could also be made of just carrots (wild ones too)


Adding flat stone ti make more bait is overcomplicating too. There's absolutely no reason why sharpstone + snare shouldnt be enough for someone to trap rabbits early on, and given the fact wild carrots spawn in prairies that'd be exactly qhat we'd need

Last edited by Booklat1 (2019-10-20 03:15:04)

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#9 2019-10-20 05:59:05

antking:]#
Member
Registered: 2018-12-29
Posts: 345

Re: Update: Cartography

I have to agree that a change to rabbits had to happen, and now its better to use burdock as bait then to eat it, because you can use it 3* meaning you trade 9 pips for 30 pips

the only thing I don't agree with is the need for a carrot and berry bow for bait especially because rabbits don't eat these things and it puts even more pressure on this object now being required for
- feeding sheep
-making compost
-getting rabbits
though having the bait last 3* makes the change slightly better
all of which are very important though I have to give credited where its due and say that the map change was a welcomed one and I haven't played around with the new spring system so I can't judge that yet


"hear how the wind begins to whisper, but now it screams at me" said ashe

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#10 2019-10-20 17:19:41

Saolin
Member
Registered: 2019-05-22
Posts: 302

Re: Update: Cartography

Map is pretty cool.

One thing I want to add about the excess backpacks is that it actually made sense before to flood a town with backpacks since they were and still are a superior storage option to baskets when used in a cart or box. Its essentially upgrading your baskets.

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#11 2019-10-21 08:44:15

Kinrany
Member
Registered: 2018-01-22
Posts: 315

Re: Update: Cartography

jasonrohrer wrote:

Nothing in this game should be worthless.

That's probably impossible without super hardcore economic modeling.

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#12 2019-10-21 09:53:26

Kinrany
Member
Registered: 2018-01-22
Posts: 315

Re: Update: Cartography

Kinrany wrote:
jasonrohrer wrote:

Nothing in this game should be worthless.

That's probably impossible without super hardcore economic modeling.

Seriously though. Remember Friedman's pencil? It's super cheap, you can always buy more, and that's interesting!

A higher tech alternative to baskets and backpacks is a perfect candidate for bulk production. There's no such thing as too much storage space. And complex production lines are a perfect activity for large towns.

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