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#1 2019-08-13 09:38:59

Dodge
Member
Registered: 2018-08-27
Posts: 2,324

Every griefer uses the zoom mod

Try cutting all the junipers, killing all the mufflons, waking all the bears, easily find hidden villages to raid them, rapidly find helpless people to kill etc without the zoom mod.

You cant

Without the zoom mod griefers would take hours to do the same grief they can do in minutes.

Sure it wouldn't completely solve the issue but it would greatly reduce it and the impact they can have.

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#2 2019-08-13 11:22:49

kubassa
Banned
Registered: 2018-04-21
Posts: 162

Re: Every griefer uses the zoom mod

I have to agree. The MOD ruined this game completely.


I got huge ballz.

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#3 2019-08-13 11:55:54

Whatever
Member
Registered: 2019-02-23
Posts: 491

Re: Every griefer uses the zoom mod

Its easier to grief with zoom mod, but its also easier to prevent grief with zoom mod or to do good.

If there is a griefer in your village that kills all the sheep, someone with zoom mod is much more likely to see him.
Its much easier to avoid bears with zoom mod and you can see the person that is luring them to your village.
You can easier find resources for your village and orientate yourself in the world.

cutting all the junipers, killing all the mufflons, waking all the bears, easily find hidden villages to raid them, rapidly find helpless people to kill

in my opinion, these problems should be solved in a different way.
junipers and mouflon should respawn, bears should be more useful and less common,
the raiding and killing is a consequence of the war sword and rift update, before that it was much less.

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#4 2019-08-13 11:56:22

The_Anabaptist
Member
Registered: 2018-11-14
Posts: 358

Re: Every griefer uses the zoom mod

I would agree that it offers an unfair advantage.  I wish Jason would level the playing field.  Either by building it into the base game, or finding a way to cripple the mod.

The_Anabaptist

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#5 2019-08-13 14:13:44

pein
Member
Registered: 2018-03-31
Posts: 4,287

Re: Every griefer uses the zoom mod

i played 400 hours without zoom and still had a lot of dodges, self deffence kills
i got iron and made big sheep pens

it's like you say that 99% of serial killers consumed water in their lifes

to be fair,, anything below 7x7 is too small of a blueprint and if you don't see it from above it doesn't look like anything

smithig: i seen people put smith inside room, now with newcommen i like the 0-1-0-1-0-0-1-0 setup, that's already seven tiles, and 2 above kiln, 5-6 below
that's a 7x8 regardless the zoom

the main difference maybe is that i made a lot more fences for the horse without zoom

the "duel' "system" would be even worse, as if they inside the field of view they already killed you

1.5 half zoom should be default


https://onehouronelife.com/forums/viewtopic.php?id=7986 livestock pens 4.0
https://onehouronelife.com/forums/viewtopic.php?id=4411 maxi guide

Playing OHOL optimally is like cosplaying a cactus: stand still and don't waste the water.

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#6 2019-08-13 14:45:08

Dantox
Member
Registered: 2019-04-28
Posts: 211

Re: Every griefer uses the zoom mod

It amazes me how jason hasnt done anything with this issue, the total awarness that it can give you it too much to even call it "somewhat fair" hopefully he does something about it soon since we are now trapped in a cage with them


make bread, no war

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#7 2019-08-13 14:47:15

DestinyCall
Member
Registered: 2018-12-08
Posts: 4,130

Re: Every griefer uses the zoom mod

pein wrote:

it's like you say that 99% of serial killers consumed water in their lifes

And yet, if you remove all water, serial killers wouldn't be a problem anymore.  The two are clearly related.   You might be on to something.

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#8 2019-08-13 14:53:09

Dodge
Member
Registered: 2018-08-27
Posts: 2,324

Re: Every griefer uses the zoom mod

pein wrote:

i played
it's like you say that 99% of serial killers consumed water in their lifes


Not everyone uses the zoom, but everyone drinks water, or you're saying that regular non serial killer people dont drink water lol

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#9 2019-08-13 15:08:14

DestinyCall
Member
Registered: 2018-12-08
Posts: 4,130

Re: Every griefer uses the zoom mod

Dodge wrote:
pein wrote:

i played
it's like you say that 99% of serial killers consumed water in their lifes


Not everyone uses the zoom, but everyone drinks water, or you're saying that regular non serial killer people dont drink water lol

He is saying that ice cream sales go up in the summer and drowning deaths also go up in the summer,.  Ergo people must be drowning because of the ice cream.   Think of the children - just say NO to the cone.

He is saying that pollution has gotten steadily worse in recent years, while the number of pirates roaming the high seas has gone down.   We are now at a critically low level of pirate and should intitiate pirate increasing policies to save the planet from this trend.

He is saying that most people eat breakfast within twenty four hours of being killed.  Have you considered skipping breakfast this morning?   It might just save your life.

I think we can all agree that these statements are factual and accurate.  Numbers don't lie.

...

If everyone around you is drinking water ... have you considered the possibility that they might all be seriel killers?

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#10 2019-08-13 15:25:29

Dodge
Member
Registered: 2018-08-27
Posts: 2,324

Re: Every griefer uses the zoom mod

DestinyCall wrote:
Dodge wrote:
pein wrote:

i played
it's like you say that 99% of serial killers consumed water in their lifes


Not everyone uses the zoom, but everyone drinks water, or you're saying that regular non serial killer people dont drink water lol

He is saying that ice cream sales go up in the summer and drowning deaths also go up in the summer,.  Ergo people must be drowning because of the ice cream.   Think of the children - just say NO to the cone.

He is saying that pollution has gotten steadily worse in recent years, while the number of pirates roaming the high seas has gone down.   We are now at a critically low level of pirate and should intitiate pirate increasing policies to save the planet from this trend.

He is saying that most people eat breakfast within twenty four hours of being killed.  Have you considered skipping breakfast this morning?   It might just save your life.

I think we can all agree that these statements are factual and accurate.  Numbers don't lie.

...

If everyone around you is drinking water ... have you considered the possibility that they might all be seriel killers?

Well everybody drinks water right?

But does everybody uses the zoom mod?

Every griefer does

Non-griefer dont use the zoom mod correct?

So if water is the zoom mod then griefers drink water and non griefers dont

Griefers = Serial killers

People who dont drink water are not serial killers.

Case solved cool

Last edited by Dodge (2019-08-13 15:25:52)

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#11 2019-08-13 15:27:31

DestinyCall
Member
Registered: 2018-12-08
Posts: 4,130

Re: Every griefer uses the zoom mod

That's why I only drink coffee.   Never trust a water-drinker.

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#12 2019-08-13 18:59:44

DarkDrak
Member
Registered: 2019-06-05
Posts: 122

Re: Every griefer uses the zoom mod

Drinking blood of my victims from a glass
Ayy, water drinkers can't be trusted! They're all evil!



Seriously though, the association between greifers and zoom mod is like the association between school shooters and videogames.
Don't you get annoyed of losing the people you follow 'cause they run 9 tiles away from you while you stop to eat a berry?
Don't you get annoyed of not being able to find your horsecart anymore 'cause it run somewhere while you were carrying rocks?


Youtube guide to Oil and Kerosene: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SKSZHPiUK6A
Youtube guide to Diesel Engine: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4sMX_GlwgbA&t=5s

World is not black and white

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#13 2019-08-13 19:24:34

Jk Howling
Member
From: Washington State
Registered: 2018-06-16
Posts: 468

Re: Every griefer uses the zoom mod

Drak's analogy makes the most sense. Just because many griefers use the mod, doesn't mean that ONLY griefers use it. I've played against griefers that clearly didn't have it, and I used it myself for a majority of my playtime in this game, often to the advantage of my town- finding iron and oil and such, witnessing/reporting/killing griefers, even finding a suitable area to build a camp in are all made much easier with the mod.

Yes, griefers take advantage of it, too. But so do regular, productive players. It's one of those cases that you simply come into contact and notice it a lot more with griefers than you do non-griefers, since it's fairly obvious when someone's using it to chase you half way across the map compared to someone using it to find iron.


Honestly you're starting to sound like those people who think killing is the problem and that everything would be magically better if we couldn't stab/shoot each other. That doesn't fix the griefing problem at all.


-Has ascended to better games-

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#14 2019-08-13 19:47:17

breezeknight
Member
Registered: 2018-04-02
Posts: 813

Re: Every griefer uses the zoom mod

@Dodge

i fully agree with your critique

but

you don't stand the slightest chance with this crippled echo chamber "community"
& rest assured, holy Jason Rohrer won't move a finger to make the game fair,
cause
freedom for holy Jason Rohrer ? yes
freedom for griefers ? yes
freedom for self righteous avengers ? yes
freedom for peaceful players ? nope

- - -

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#15 2019-08-13 19:48:55

Dodge
Member
Registered: 2018-08-27
Posts: 2,324

Re: Every griefer uses the zoom mod

I never said everybody using the zoom mod is griefing, but it makes griefing WAY easier and faster.

Without this they couldn't do half the griefing they are able to do currently.

You cant escape a griefer that wants to kill you he has god's point of view.

But if a griefer has the default view then you have a chance to escape and not get killed.

If the only argument for zoom is finding iron and oil more easily, then it's really a weak one.

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#16 2019-08-13 19:54:22

DestinyCall
Member
Registered: 2018-12-08
Posts: 4,130

Re: Every griefer uses the zoom mod

Even when playing on a low pop server where griefing is minimal, I find playing with default view distance claustraphobic and dangerous.   I starve within easy reach of food.  I get lost more easily.  I get run over by wolves/pigs from off screen.   I can't find the item I need in the village junk heap.

I usually play zoomed out by two or three levels ... not max zoom where everything is super tiny and you get a lot of fuzzy borders and item pop-in.  But not vanilla zoom where I can see every detail of my uncle's chin stubble.   I think the game as a whole would be improved by a better view distance.

Last edited by DestinyCall (2019-08-13 19:55:14)

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#17 2019-08-13 20:28:01

Whatever
Member
Registered: 2019-02-23
Posts: 491

Re: Every griefer uses the zoom mod

If everyone would use zoom it would be harder to grief.

If you are in a village with 10 people, 1 is a griefer, this one griefer might steal stuff and run away with it, kill sheep, eat a lot of food....
If all of them have zoom they can spot the griefer much easier, while on the other hand if no one has zoom the griefer can still grief but is much stealthier now.

I think the real problem of this thread is
"i dont want to use zoom and other people have an advantage over me"
and not
"zoom mods make the game more griefer friendly"

jason doesnt like that people use the zoom mod, but if he changes how the game works in order to make zooming harder than this would cause more work for the server and client,
more network traffic, if you have lag than suddenly people would teleport in front of you and stab you, people already complained about different weird lag effects and this would only get worse.

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#18 2019-08-13 20:45:23

Dodge
Member
Registered: 2018-08-27
Posts: 2,324

Re: Every griefer uses the zoom mod

Whatever wrote:

If everyone would use zoom it would be harder to grief.

If you are in a village with 10 people, 1 is a griefer, this one griefer might steal stuff and run away with it, kill sheep, eat a lot of food....
If all of them have zoom they can spot the griefer much easier, while on the other hand if no one has zoom the griefer can still grief but is much stealthier now.

I think the real problem of this thread is
"i dont want to use zoom and other people have an advantage over me"
and not
"zoom mods make the game more griefer friendly"

jason doesnt like that people use the zoom mod, but if he changes how the game works in order to make zooming harder than this would cause more work for the server and client,
more network traffic, if you have lag than suddenly people would teleport in front of you and stab you, people already complained about different weird lag effects and this would only get worse.

There's never going to be everybody using an out of game mod to enhance the original view, so there will always be unbalance between regular non zoom players and griefers using the mod.

Btw people using the mod really helped stop the griefing that happenned these past few days roll

Last edited by Dodge (2019-08-13 20:46:12)

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#19 2019-08-13 21:53:10

sigmen4020
Member
Registered: 2019-01-05
Posts: 827

Re: Every griefer uses the zoom mod

Dodge wrote:
Whatever wrote:

If everyone would use zoom it would be harder to grief.

If you are in a village with 10 people, 1 is a griefer, this one griefer might steal stuff and run away with it, kill sheep, eat a lot of food....
If all of them have zoom they can spot the griefer much easier, while on the other hand if no one has zoom the griefer can still grief but is much stealthier now.

I think the real problem of this thread is
"i dont want to use zoom and other people have an advantage over me"
and not
"zoom mods make the game more griefer friendly"

jason doesnt like that people use the zoom mod, but if he changes how the game works in order to make zooming harder than this would cause more work for the server and client,
more network traffic, if you have lag than suddenly people would teleport in front of you and stab you, people already complained about different weird lag effects and this would only get worse.

There's never going to be everybody using an out of game mod to enhance the original view, so there will always be unbalance between regular non zoom players and griefers using the mod.

Btw people using the mod really helped stop the griefing that happenned these past few days roll

Lol, where is your proof that a zoom mod ban would have made things any better.

I started playing the game in November last year and played without the zoom mod for quite a while before beginning to use it. Without the zoom mod I could survive easily enough, but I got something like 50 % less work done than when using the mod. I don’t really miss having to search for the town shovel for 5 minutes before I can get any work done. I don’t miss being killed by animals that come unpredictably from off screen. I have been using the zoom mod for a while and haven’t participated in any griefing.


Race car go brrr

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#20 2019-08-13 21:55:31

sigmen4020
Member
Registered: 2019-01-05
Posts: 827

Re: Every griefer uses the zoom mod

breezeknight wrote:

@Dodge

i fully agree with your critique

but

you don't stand the slightest chance with this crippled echo chamber "community"
& rest assured, holy Jason Rohrer won't move a finger to make the game fair,
cause
freedom for holy Jason Rohrer ? yes
freedom for griefers ? yes
freedom for self righteous avengers ? yes
freedom for peaceful players ? nope

- - -

Are you implying that all zoom mod users aren’t peaceful players? That’s just rich.


Race car go brrr

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#21 2019-08-13 22:14:59

Villas
Member
Registered: 2019-03-16
Posts: 230

Re: Every griefer uses the zoom mod

It’s actually easy to solve those problems, I don’t have 16 years of programming, I have 3, but I’m almost sure those changes are easy since he already has the functions ready:

- Respawnable animals/trees.
- All trees cost hunger to chop down.
- Bear meat, bear clothing. If there was a bear coat and meat, I bet people would hunt all of them to get those exotic items.

About the killing, it’s really easier to kill when you are using zoom out, principally when the another person isn’t using.

But also, it’s easier to detect griefers and avoid being murdered while using it. For instance, yesterday, an Eve on a horse, had four sword on her horse-cart, I was using zoom-out, so I could see her. I opened the gate and hid behind a tree, when she entered I insta stab her, she run to try to hide her body behind a tree, but I could easily find the corpse.

The video game analogy is true. I live in Brazil, and two teenagers entered in a school, in Suzano, the had bows, guns, axes, Molotov cocktails, then they killed a lot of kids and the staff. After some days, politicians tried to ban violent games in Brazil, because police went in the killer’s house and they used to play CS:GO, Fortnite, MINECRAFT (They even showed scenes of kids playing Minecraft killing each other with axes and bows).
So I agree with @DrankDark, killers playing violent games doesn’t mean they are the only one who play, ordinary people also do.

A solution would be allowing players to zoom in/out without mod, but a smaller zoom.

I, particularly, enjoy much more using some levels of zoom. Yesterday for example, I wanted to make a cow pen, but there were no goose to make arrows. I spent forty years using zoom out to find a loose domestic bison, I was happy I could finish it before I die and taught my granddaughter how to get milk. For me, it would be impossible without zoom out. When they chop almost all junipers, I spent more than 30 years with zoom out to find a single one and get sapplings, would be impossible without zoom out.

Griefers can still grief without zoom out, principally those who use discord, reverse the griefing would be much harder though. I think we should be free to choose if we want it or not, and we can fight griefers making different changes.

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#22 2019-08-13 22:29:53

Villas
Member
Registered: 2019-03-16
Posts: 230

Re: Every griefer uses the zoom mod

Also, to ban zoom out the game would change drastically.

The server renders an area much bigger than your seeable area. It happens because when you walk, the game take some time (depending on your internet) to render the next area, but since your seeable area is smaller than the rendered area, the game can take some seconds to render the next area, since the things you see when you walk were already rendered before.

If the game limits the rendered area to the seeable area, you wouldn’t be able to run unless your internet is extremely fast, due the player speed is higher than the render speed, don’t even think about horses or cars. Also, if you complain about teleporting people, babies turning in adults in seconds, swords materializing in players hand, it would happen much more frequently since the game only render the player when they enter in your seeable area (before, the game rendered players when they enter rendered area, zoom out area).

Also, since you can’t walk quickly because you have to wait the game rendering the area each second. People with faster internet would have a huge advantage, since they can walk much faster than you. They could kill you without you noticing, because the game didn’t rendered them in time.

So banning zoom out, requires a huge work and even with this huge work the game would be more laggy and glitchy.

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#23 2019-08-13 23:34:14

pein
Member
Registered: 2018-03-31
Posts: 4,287

Re: Every griefer uses the zoom mod

well we got some stuff jason did not considerign zoom mod:
iron nerf: he played once and seen staks of iron, he thought, "hey one town out of many, has so muh iron, we better nerf iron"
not really considering, that some top level guy spent a lifetime gathering it, while that's nor fun or easy task to do, taking care of others for a tiny chance of getting back
so he did a nerf on ground iron which is compared to food making, is a hard activity
if you just work inside the city, without any risk, you can produce enough food for yourself and 4-5 others
people got the wrong idea or no idea about food
they refuse to contribute cause the game doesn't punish in any way for not doing anything
therefore you put pressure on others
how many times i could have smith or scout the map, but if i care about others i need to do tasks that are nor fun or up to my skill level, cause i got to do things that are needed
so your main smith becomes the kindling gatherer and your second best smith is doing that, while in reverse situation you would save on kindling and time

so nerfs that come from the thought of "top players can do that so make it harder for them, so they don't get bored" has a bad impact overall on game
same goes for building: it's a ot of work gathering all the stuff, while havign food security and other stuff, so random players are building in random places not considering the location blocking others work, and if they can ever finish it

not sure if any of you noticed, but wondible is kinda the only one jason accepted github pulls
he also had a modified client, and some of the stuff he mde there, are part of the mai ngame now, like pathfinding
but one feature was so game breaking ,no one really used wondible mod
and that's shivering/sweating in extreme temperatures
it made sense in the previous temperature model, you should basically never build/work on too ho or too cold tiles, and every decent player knows that the first thing you need every game is some clothing to make it easier for you and others, so you don't need that much food

so the "this is hwo the game meant to be played" comment doesn't really stand here
there are games, like senuas sacrifice, where the sensory data is main part of game, but for ohol?
it's like a chess game where you could only see the board 4x4 around the last pieceyour opponent moved
in a shooter game where you got a skill based aiming system, it would be an advantage
in 2d, i don't really see how reducing the FOV would help in any way

it's like saying that "im in a wheelchair, elts cut other peoples leg, so we are equal"
or like "in the name of equality, females should be superior and receive the same advantages but no disadvantages"

my sister is no expert on games, she seen me playing this game
asked what is this game
then she seen me playing later with zoom. she was asking if the graphics are upgraded.

better is always better, regarding the UI
reducing someones sensory attributes to slow down the pace of the game, to prevent them getting bored of the lack of content, it's not a fun thing
that was one problem i had with temperature downgrade
sure it's ok that you need clothes and stuff, but the old map with heat zones had a minigame where you could optimize the city around the heat sources, and avoid bad, get drawn to good spots

therefore reducing the temperature, resulted in a lot more failed camps, but the nerfs we received beforehand werent turned  back
i remember games where we had no desert at all, me and one girl survived, made farm, smithing, but most of kids died anyway cause the ouldnt calculate well the distance
so we just quit on games where you couldn't raise kids to a certain age, cause then all your work would have been wasted
no because we coudlnt handle it

iron nerf, soil nerf? never changed back

zoom mod is good, seeing more of the map is good, people realizign that the game is better using zoom is no wonder. people who are alredy better at the game, will use zoom mod. except some weirdos, who refuse zoom mods, like breeze who would enjoy donkey town where he has no kids anyway,cause he blindly believes in our greatr leader, lord and savior jasus roarer

the fact that more skilled people become griefers it's a problem, the fact that the game doesn't offer too much possibilities so some people enjoy creating chaos instead, it's a problem.
the way i see it, there are some major point everyone goes trough:
-the time they understand how to work and create stuff, you will see good rabbit hunters and caring mothers, kids who fix the farm and ask for a job
-the time they understand why to work, and become Eves, or they don't and roleplay every game and quit on you if you don't give them backpacks at birth for spammign yoohoo and ill while covering the forge
-the time they understand how to survive but realize that they shouldn't work full time feeding others
-the time they realize their environment and stand up for themselves

all the equality and equity stuff and teachign is nice, but don't make yourself a scapegoat for others. i do understand some griefers, killers, revengers, and they are part of the game. you cannot really change them.
but if you think about that how fast people make loom clothes, makes no sense that they cannot keep up with the food need
so, do you really blame people for not playing the communist utopia where "new" players get everything easy, and life is peaceful?
people call everyone 'griefer" very easily, calling a raider a griefer, sounds about right, relying on curses to keep other families out isn't right
having no need for skill in combat isn't right
having noconsent to duels isn't right
we got a lot of things that arent a full feature, it's just some concept with a bad execution
player mods fixing an issue that jason refuses to fix, it's not our biggest problem
so far the things he refuses to deal with, are the quite obviously needed, and the more explanation he gives why, the worse the solution is

so instead of cutting peoples legs, in order to make them equal, shouldn't we instead allow them to use high heels by default?


https://onehouronelife.com/forums/viewtopic.php?id=7986 livestock pens 4.0
https://onehouronelife.com/forums/viewtopic.php?id=4411 maxi guide

Playing OHOL optimally is like cosplaying a cactus: stand still and don't waste the water.

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#24 2019-08-14 00:18:52

DestinyCall
Member
Registered: 2018-12-08
Posts: 4,130

Re: Every griefer uses the zoom mod

pein wrote:

So instead of cutting peoples legs, in order to make them equal, shouldn't we instead allow them to use high heels by default?

I read your whole post and agree with almost all ofit.  Especially this part. 

In the land of the blind, the one-eyed man is king.   We don't need everyone to be equally blind.  We need more people who can see.

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#25 2019-08-14 00:51:39

PXshadow
Member
Registered: 2019-06-19
Posts: 61

Re: Every griefer uses the zoom mod

Every griefer uses a keyboard. Let's go after the keyboards too.


PXshadow#9132
Senior full stack developer

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