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#1 2019-02-21 01:58:59

jasonrohrer
Administrator
Registered: 2017-02-13
Posts: 4,676

The instant-suicide mod

As described here:

https://github.com/jasonrohrer/OneLife/issues/194

I know that opinions here are all over the map....

In general, the server cannot just forge ahead with a client that is sending malformed messages.  I think it needs to nip it in the bud right away.  It currently kills you when this happens.


Options:

1.  It could, as suggested in the github issue, just disconnect you instead of killing you.  That will essentially just block this mod.

2.  /die could be extended to cover the case when your mother is NOT holding you.


If I go with 2, I'm not sure how it should work, exactly.  If she ever held you, that could be a sign that she wants you, so /die could reset her birth cooldown.  But if you are abandoned, and she never held you, than /die can just be a suicide that doesn't affect her at all.

In that case, /die before your mother gets a chance to pick you up will be a real dick move....

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#2 2019-02-21 02:41:35

BlueDiamondAvatar
Member
Registered: 2018-11-19
Posts: 322

Re: The instant-suicide mod

Well, I'd like to see both of your options implemented. 
(And I have been using the AWBZ mod shift-del feature.)


For /die, maybe make it available whenever the baby is held by any adult?  I've had plenty of grandmothers look after me as a baby, and the practice of having a central nursery is very common right now.  It would also help if you could extend the availability of /die through the time the baby turns 2 years old.

My $0.02


--Blue Diamond

I aim to leave behind a world that is easier for people to live in that it was before I got there.

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#3 2019-02-21 02:41:48

fragilityh14
Member
Registered: 2018-03-21
Posts: 556

Re: The instant-suicide mod

i hate people using this, though that's just my perception of how the game should be played.


One thing that's come out since the update, is before those of us who choose note to use /die where NEVER in Eve camps. People complain there are too many Eves, but I've had as many as 1/3-1/4 of my kids do /die, and clearly the /die'rs get all the Eve camps.


I'd like a meta control for this, like you get 3 /dies per hour of gameplay, or something.

[i would add, if you do something like that, I wouldn't be against you giving Tarr and a few other players a pass for unlimited /dies, there is a value to Tarr testing out all the latest tech etc]

Last edited by fragilityh14 (2019-02-21 02:44:39)


I'll tell you what I tell all my children: Make basket, always carry food.

Listen to your mom!

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#4 2019-02-21 02:43:05

DestinyCall
Member
Registered: 2018-12-08
Posts: 3,584

Re: The instant-suicide mod

I'd say don't worry about trying to figure out the mom's intentions, just treat it like a normal /die and reset the birth timer.

/die babies shouldn't count.

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#5 2019-02-21 02:50:46

Turnipseed
Member
From: Texas, Greatest Country Ever
Registered: 2018-04-05
Posts: 680

Re: The instant-suicide mod

DestinyCall wrote:

I'd say don't worry about trying to figure out the mom's intentions, just treat it like a normal /die and reset the birth timer.

/die babies shouldn't count.

I agree with this


Be kind, generous, and work together my potatoes.

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#6 2019-02-21 02:56:22

jasonrohrer
Administrator
Registered: 2017-02-13
Posts: 4,676

Re: The instant-suicide mod

Yeah, I guess that's simple enough....

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#7 2019-02-21 02:59:52

Jason's_Mind
Member
Registered: 2019-02-19
Posts: 12

Re: The instant-suicide mod

My only intention is to help.

I choose the 3: first is to implement the awbz mod to the vanilla game, so that all players are under the same circumstances (if u have to pay the guy he really deserves it). If you press shift + del, regardless of where you are, banned from the lineage and you reset the mother's birth cooldown, in addition to not leaving bones when you die. It's as if you disappeared.

I use the awbz mod but i see all that poor souls and i think, something is not right here.

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#8 2019-02-21 03:00:25

Peremptive
Member
Registered: 2019-02-14
Posts: 199

Re: The instant-suicide mod

well if someone really wants to die they can always force DC and you have no way to know if it was their internet being cut or them wanting to DC. so trying to stop people from dying when they want to is a losing battle.

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#9 2019-02-21 03:06:53

jasonrohrer
Administrator
Registered: 2017-02-13
Posts: 4,676

Re: The instant-suicide mod

Well, if they DC currently, they stay alive in game.  If they reconnect to the same server, they rejoin that same life.  As long as they are fed, they stay alive as a zombie.  So you can "trap" someone in prison for an hour by force-feeding them.

The mod's method of sending a malformed message has been dealt with now (the server DCs you instead of killing you).  Will go live later this week.

As far as /die always resetting mother's birth cooldown.... I just remembered that for mothers that run away from BBs, I don't WANT them to have another baby right away.  That's part of what the cooldown is for.  If they are going to run away from BBs, I want to send as few BBs to them a possible.

I think the "ever held by parent" test is the best one.  Often, your parent will pick you up before you can even see them, while the map loads.  So you don't have a chance to /die or run away before they pick you up the first time.... if they want you.

If they don't want you, they probably won't ever pick you up.  Then their birth cooldown can remain in place while you /die to speed things up.

As far as /die working beyond 1 year.... why?  Isn't 60 seconds enough to make that decision?  And letting a mother care for you for 120 seconds to just /die at the end is cruel...

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#10 2019-02-21 03:11:21

Greep
Member
Registered: 2018-12-16
Posts: 289

Re: The instant-suicide mod

fragilityh14 wrote:

i hate people using this, though that's just my perception of how the game should be played.


One thing that's come out since the update, is before those of us who choose note to use /die where NEVER in Eve camps. People complain there are too many Eves, but I've had as many as 1/3-1/4 of my kids do /die, and clearly the /die'rs get all the Eve camps.


I'd like a meta control for this, like you get 3 /dies per hour of gameplay, or something.

[i would add, if you do something like that, I wouldn't be against you giving Tarr and a few other players a pass for unlimited /dies, there is a value to Tarr testing out all the latest tech etc]

That keeps getting suggested, but what happens when you /die more than 3 times?  Now you're back to pre-/die when kids would just run off to starve.  Also Tarr can test out stuff on my private server as he's done before wink  I too feel like /die is awful and have my own ideas concerning it, but perhaps that's it's own topic.

Regarding the topic at hand, I'd go with #2 as well, and add shift+del as a convenient shortcut for /die


Likes sword based eve names.  Claymore, blades, sword.  Never understimate the blades!

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#11 2019-02-21 03:12:22

Greep
Member
Registered: 2018-12-16
Posts: 289

Re: The instant-suicide mod

Regarding 1 year, it's not enough time, because I frequently load the game at 1 year tongue  It'd be fine if you loaded stuff first and then made the baby haha.


Likes sword based eve names.  Claymore, blades, sword.  Never understimate the blades!

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#12 2019-02-21 03:21:17

DestinyCall
Member
Registered: 2018-12-08
Posts: 3,584

Re: The instant-suicide mod

I've had babies drop while I was in the middle of forging, while riding on horse back and while I was surrounded by objects and unable to find a single empty tile to clear my hands.  I almost always want to keep my kids, even when I'm slow to pick them up or busy with important tasks.

Although on the subject of unwanted children, I think this game could benefit from some form of contraception for women.  Since babies can say "nope, I'm out.", it only seems fair that potential mother could have the same choice.   Some way to extend the cooldown without involving other players getting abandoned at birth.

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#13 2019-02-21 03:25:39

Tarr
Member
Registered: 2018-03-31
Posts: 1,546

Re: The instant-suicide mod

Still slightly annoying in cases where a whole group needs to /die to stop returning to a camp. One twin/triplet/quad isn't enough to stop returning so each baby needs to be picked up by mom one by one to all /die or they'll be stuck returning to the place they're trying to avoid.

Of course there's still the prison trick which while not popular is still a valid way to grief people off the main server completely or at least until said prisoner is ignored long enough to die of natural causes.

I do however think it's important to remove the function to prevent the massive flood of babies bones that quickly cover a village if any group of multiples are trying to move to one specific village in particular. As is, these babies just flood every and any corner of a village they land in that's not their specific destination which means corpses littering the forge while working, spilling in and out of the nursery, and to top it off they're not lineage banned unless all lineage banned.

At the end of the day people are going to kill themselves either which way, the only real difference I can see is a rise in bear attacks due to slow deaths if /die is unusable without your mother holding you or the /die restrictions aren't loosened up a bit.


Days peppers/onions/tomatoes left unfixed: 103

Do your part and remind Jason to fix these damn vegetables.

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#14 2019-02-21 03:45:26

fragilityh14
Member
Registered: 2018-03-21
Posts: 556

Re: The instant-suicide mod

The in/out of hands thing is difficult. Im kind of compulsively busy in this game and often in the wilds, and I might not see a kid behind a tree or even in a civ today where I kept only having boys (and after 7 boys i had a girl who lived) I apparently had an oldest daughter I didn't ever see or notice? (this is the first time this has happened, fun quirk).

But, i hate the baby suicides, and i hate to leave babies, but sometimes I just can't keep another boy or whatever.


Anyway, while the random babies is a fun aspect of this game, women always had _some_ influence/knowledge of when a baby is coming.


So, after i have a baby i want suicide, I usually say "sad", when a baby is born i always grab the baby and say "hi boy" or "Hi girl", when i can't keep a baby i say, "Sorry baby, i can't keep you"


These phrases could influence the birth likelihood/cooldown period. If i don't see a baby in the wilds, because i'm running, even if I would have kept it, a minute cooldown is certainly no problem. But if a baby is born into my arms and /dies and i say "sad", that is a clear sign i want to have a baby. Or even being able to use the phrase "i want a baby" once in your life to get prioritized, because it is crazy frustrating when a civ dies from lack of fertility. [I Eved the other day where i had like 12 kids and my daughter did too and my granddaughter lived to 45 with one kid and her daughter lived to 35 with one kid. sad.]


i don't know how hard it is to incorporate, and of course it's a thing to learn, but I think it's a solid idea that what you say about a baby effects the birth cooldown.

And i mean, this is a woman alone in the wilderness, her random births are one of the most unrealistic aspects big_smile [I also like the idea of the stomach puffing out for a brief period before a birth, however, i don't like the premise of making players wait to login for that, still, you could make like, the top 5 women in line for kids have big stomachs, or something.]


I'll tell you what I tell all my children: Make basket, always carry food.

Listen to your mom!

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#15 2019-02-21 03:51:51

jasonrohrer
Administrator
Registered: 2017-02-13
Posts: 4,676

Re: The instant-suicide mod

Greep, are you having this happen just on your first life in the game?  That is usually because your disk cache is cold, and it takes a while for the sprites to load.  But still, 60 seconds is pretty excessive....

I find that on subsequent lives, it loads almost instantly.  Most likely, some objects are still loaded, and if not, they are in the disk cache (I find that subsequent map loads are faster even after I quit the client).

Just tested a cold load on my 2010 laptop here with magnetic disk.  21 seconds from LOGIN until world visible.

Warm load after quitting client (actually, back into the same life, after I quit the client):  3.5 seconds.

Hot load (after dying and getting reborn right away), also about 3.5 seconds.


So yes, this is all disk bound.  It takes a while to load the sprites from the disk.


If it's really taking 3x longer for you on a cold disk cache... is there something wrong with your disk?  If its taking that long on a warm disk cache.... not sure what the problem is.

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#16 2019-02-21 05:21:01

Spoonwood
Member
Registered: 2019-02-06
Posts: 2,900

Re: The instant-suicide mod

jasonrohrer wrote:

As far as /die working beyond 1 year.... why?  Isn't 60 seconds enough to make that decision?  And letting a mother care for you for 120 seconds to just /die at the end is cruel...

No, 60 seconds is not enough.  I recently went into a town (since the update) on the bigserver that I thought I might actually play.  When I was three some man went into the sheep pen and killed the last sheep (which I think was already shorn).  I made a sad face and used shift + delete.  Before I started using the mod I might have just run into the wild and starved or tried "to pet" a boar, snake, or wolf.  I'm not saying I couldn't fix that sort of problem, it's just that feeling of fixing something that one feels one really shouldn't have to fix, and I doubt was a noob sort of problem.

I had another life where I lived until I was an adult woman a few weeks ago.  I ended up cooking eggs with someone at some point.  I didn't say that the person should cook eggs.  He said to me 'why am I doing this?'.  I sensed of an attitude of "why am I cooking food?"  He told me to leave.  I said "I will", said "food first" meaning that food needs to come before other things and then quit.

Also, sometimes real life problems come up for some people unexpectedly or other things.  Having the ability to die at any age instantly thus makes for something desireable.

As cruel as a child's suicide may feel to the mother, forcing someone to live who is suicidal may be even more cruel to the suicidal person.

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#17 2019-02-21 06:53:45

pein
Member
Registered: 2018-03-31
Posts: 4,252

Re: The instant-suicide mod

i didn't used for a while
but lately i used a few times ,generally when i pulled a marathon and was out of lineage ban and just wanted to get back to other town, if its limited lineage ban,i think is fair
there was times where i knew most s5 generations, and people somehow all came to s5 when i was there
then was s2 and people came there too
i guess because of my cities were working and people born into them, then they just had enough information to know they can increase their cahnces with custom server
with fire, clayton families, i really felt like i don't need to be part of more families, those were 40-50 gen fams so really grown on them and tried to skip out anything else

but then for example elders were hanging out with 1-2 females and you esentially couldn't figure out if they died out but then a few females popped up and the line was going extra 15 gen with 1 female who was kinda new, and was quite hard to get back

i can understand that people can do it infinitely, and set everyone on server infertile so maybe a timer between each 5 or 10 life could be appplied
but as feature i see it reasonable, for exactly same case: i might not know if im still lineage banned or not and might not want to settle in a huge town but don't want eve runs either, i mean, i had a life in a fragmented desert/swamp pre update, where buildings were so close to trees and no branches, i quit 2 times on them, and 3rd time i just choose to stay cause still better than starting from scratch again

there are a few cases: mom doesn't want the baby or doesn't notice it
if doesn't want, it could be some way to prevent births at all, if doesn't want some particular baby, it should be a way to state it
like i had a lot of times griefer wibes, from babies who run around and bump on gear and weapons, or tell others to die or so
and generally if i or others raise them turns out to be right
generally if you doesn't notice them, its because horses/cars go very fast, and kind of unrealistic to have kids on horseback anyway
the other might be the case of kids born behind trees

generally if mom or baby runs opposite direction that half doesn't want the play
so if movign would prevent fertility for a while, wouldn't be that bad i guess, if you standing and give birth, its easier to decide if the mother abandoned the kid or the kid ran away

then there are the moms who just take the boys out to die, which is quite bad, and they pick you up but not for the right reason

i think birth control would be nice, most newbee players try to keep every kid, i guess cause they feel bad for them, or for themselves when they were abandoned
sometimes is a small risk, other times its just hopeless attempt
like the mother doesn't have any food, any storage, any plan to keep the kid alive and stil lkeeps it, then all babies grow up, run to berry field just to see is empty, they wont survive 1 minute without milk, which is waste for the kid, waste for mother and waste for the one who is working his ass off to produce food

its literally impossible to convince people not to keep babies, maybe not to keep twins, but every time i tell them: "there is no food", like literally zero, and don't keep kids for 5 min, they still do it

so a plant which prevents birth for X time would be nice, with lower calory rate, but fast and cheap. people could  decide to eat it to prevent babies for a while, like 4-5 min. no force feed allowed ofc. but this would be a non aggressive way to motivate mothers to slow down. quite bad that people who cant feed themselves want to feed 6 babies at once, even worse that on a camp where everyone else works, they feed and gear only their babies and decide for all the camp, and even manipulate kids to curse others.
dog breeders with crowns making paper while there is no soil and no new basket to revive the town, etc. people will quit on them anyway, even multiple times until they reach the threshold

we cannot force people to stay. eve run again? everything done in city? no iron again?
its not fun to play same way twice in row
this could be solved by either allowing eve runs (limited slots)
showing current lineage ban timers
the civ level could only be measured by a point system but maybe generation number could be shown (maybe if you played an eve run/eve kid that day you could choose to ignore that type of lineages)

all in all there should be some limit, but it's a good feature and has its reasons most of times
when people had to ask to get killed, others got killed or cursed for it or the kid left a lot of bone piles over and over to get the lineage ban
also there are the people who annoy you just enough to get killed for it to get their lineage ban


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#18 2019-02-21 07:11:39

Dodge
Member
Registered: 2018-08-27
Posts: 2,128

Re: The instant-suicide mod

Can we have a /die to be banned from a specific mother and not the lineage, sometimes they do small camps that look like eve camps they dont have lastname you /die and you get banned from whole lineage.

Does lineage ban waiting time is based on time passed on server or in game time? So if i close client and come back 60 minutes later will i be unbanned from lineage?

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#19 2019-02-21 11:31:31

Twisted
Member
Registered: 2018-10-12
Posts: 642

Re: The instant-suicide mod

jasonrohrer wrote:

Greep, are you having this happen just on your first life in the game?  That is usually because your disk cache is cold, and it takes a while for the sprites to load.  But still, 60 seconds is pretty excessive....

I find that on subsequent lives, it loads almost instantly.  Most likely, some objects are still loaded, and if not, they are in the disk cache (I find that subsequent map loads are faster even after I quit the client).

Just tested a cold load on my 2010 laptop here with magnetic disk.  21 seconds from LOGIN until world visible.

Warm load after quitting client (actually, back into the same life, after I quit the client):  3.5 seconds.

Hot load (after dying and getting reborn right away), also about 3.5 seconds.


So yes, this is all disk bound.  It takes a while to load the sprites from the disk.


If it's really taking 3x longer for you on a cold disk cache... is there something wrong with your disk?  If its taking that long on a warm disk cache.... not sure what the problem is.


I can confirm that the game usually takes over a minute to load on the first life. It could be a disk problem but I don't think it is, as my disk works fine in other situations. I feel like the load times get slightly loader with each update, which makes sense as each update adds new sprites. Other lives after the first take under ten seconds to load.

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#20 2019-02-21 13:12:48

Léonard
Member
Registered: 2019-01-05
Posts: 180

Re: The instant-suicide mod

jasonrohrer wrote:

Well, if they DC currently, they stay alive in game.  If they reconnect to the same server, they rejoin that same life.  As long as they are fed, they stay alive as a zombie.  So you can "trap" someone in prison for an hour by force-feeding them.

Could you explain why that is? Why would you insist on keeping disconnected people alive?
I'm talking about actual disconnection here. People who time out, sure you can and should keep them alive, but for anyone else, why?

The way I see it, it only encourages bad behavior.
You say you think it's cruel that a baby can die on their mom after they are past a year old.
Well.. Isn't misleading the mom into thinking you're still alive (and thus keep wasting her time and pips on you) when you're clearly not going to even more cruel?
Or making her chase you until you starve (potentially putting her in danger at the same time)?
Why do that? What if someone thinks you just had to go to the toilet mid-game and feeds you hoping you come back only to realize they have wasted their time and food on you?
But that's just from the perspective of other people.

From the perspective of the player, something much worse happens.
Why force me to go out and suicide? What's the point? I'm genuinely asking you this, Jason. What's the point of doing this?
If I'm going to give up, forcing me back into this life until I finally decide to make sure I actually die is utterly pointless.
All this will accomplish is force me to waste a bunch of my time making sure I see my death through.
It's as if you don't want people to have the freedom to go and try their luck elsewhere when they feel their current lives will have no impact and that they're unable to rectify the situation or just plain out fed up with the town in general. Maybe the town is filled with rude people?

If you don't want people to be able to do that, things get very, very ugly.
Let's assume that you find a way to fix this and that you somehow manage to force people to finish their lives no matter what they want.
What happens is you have certain people who want to effectively die but are unable to of their own accord.
Well... Griefing. That's right. If you were to do this, you would have effectively created an actual incentive for people to grief villages. There would be an actual benefit for such people as getting others to kill them would be the only effective way to let them go away and try their luck in another village.
And if you then solve that problem by making sure that people can't play the game or get sent to donkey town if they try to get others to kill them as a deterrent from giving up, something even worse happens.
People would still grief. En masse. But without letting others know it this time.
You would have people who wouldn't want to die but want to have fun in the game while their current lives cannot provide that for them. What's the only thing left? Griefing.

You cannot win this, as someone already said.
It's impossible to force people into playing lives they don't want to play. It's like forcing someone to play a game they don't want to play.
Things go wrong.
So, Jason, I ask you. Why do you insist on keeping disconnected people alive? What's the point?

jasonrohrer wrote:

As far as /die working beyond 1 year.... why?  Isn't 60 seconds enough to make that decision?  And letting a mother care for you for 120 seconds to just /die at the end is cruel...

You seem to think of the die command as some sort of early opt out for babies or a tool only used by people who want to lineage-ban themselves.
What you don't get is that people aren't just asking for that. What people are asking for is a proper disconnection mechanism.
This is the feature that was missing and what the mod addressed.

I'm not sure if you're aware yet, but this has been discussed to a great extent in another thread before.
I remember arguing about this with a forum user called "WomanWizard" particularly, and the only genuine difference that was pointed out was that the babies who suicide on you without resetting your cooldown (which was already happening with running babies) could now do so faster than before.
As in do it quicker and as such to a greater number of mothers in a smaller amount of time.
That's it. Despite him hating people who use the shortcut, he still didn't deny that they should have the possibility of trying their luck in another town.

I really think that you should stop and consider this a bit more before jumping in and making changes.
There are a lot of aspects to consider with this issue.
I'd also like to direct your attention to another issue which is runner babies.
This problem got almost eradicated after Awbz changed his shortcut although I still saw the rare one baby who would run from their mom from time to time.
If you render the mod's shortcut useless, this issue will start getting widespread again (as it has in the past).
This also clearly indicates that indeed people who do use this shortcut simply want to suicide no matter what (and giving them a shortcut to do so is simply a quality of life improvement at that point).

jasonrohrer wrote:

I just remembered that for mothers that run away from BBs, I don't WANT them to have another baby right away.  That's part of what the cooldown is for.  If they are going to run away from BBs, I want to send as few BBs to them a possible.

I suspected this. When the thread about the Awbz shortcut was active, I suggested an idea to address this issue.
Because as you say, mothers who run away from their babies should have the cooldown active.
But what if it's the opposite, baby runners?
Sure, your idea of using the mother picking up her baby as a symbol could help the issue but wouldn't address it completely.
If a baby still wanted to die without getting himself lineage-banned, he could simply start running as soon as he spawns (I never take more than a couple seconds to load up, I'm not affected by this problem so it would be perfectly feasible).
Besides, the mother could be working at the forge or bakery and not have time to pick her baby up immediately, giving him a window to start running.

Léonard wrote:

I think there is a reason as to why using /die resets the cooldown but not running babies.
I think Jason intended for babies dying of natural causes to always count towards the cooldown because ideally it should be considered the mother's fault for her baby's death, not the baby's.
If as a mother your baby dies in real life, you are by definition a bad mother, and that would be why they still count towards the cooldown, it would favorize good mothers over bad mothers who let their children starve.
I'm not saying this is fact, but if it is, then making a baby's death not count towards the cooldown is pretty much out of the question.
If /die was made the superior disconnect method over the shortcut, then the only things left would be people who don't want a lineage ban or people who want to grief the cooldown.
What if we went all the way with the "mother is bad if her baby dies" philosophy and made babies walk much, much slower. Like say a third of normal speed.
This would mean that the only choice people who want to abandon have is the /die command (which, assuming it's made the better choice, wouldn't be a problem at all).
Which in turn means that people staying as babies are guaranteed to be willing to play their current life.
Now I know a third of the normal speed sounds pretty bad, but hear me out on this.
First, you would still be able to carry your baby like normal, but on top of that, babies could also be made to be a carryable object like how big objects like firewood can be carried.
So you could fill your backpack with one baby or put up to four babies in a handcart or still carry one single baby in your own hands.
You might think this is bad for eve runs, but this simply means that you are limited to one baby while looking for a spot.
As eve, once you have your camp setup you can simply do what I assume eves were already doing and put your children in one specific spot while you're busy fetching various stuff and come back regularly to feed all of them at once.
Ideally, this could incentivize the use of nursery in developed towns, since busy women who need to fetch stuff could drop their children there (unless they have a backpack or a handcart for multiple children).
In the case where you have a single baby, you can still simply carry it around if you are busy (at the risk of having another one on the way) which I was already doing anyways because let's be fair, babies are slow enough that asking them to follow you is a huge struggle already.
In short, you would sacrifice the possibility of having multiple children far from town and without proper gear (backpack or handcart) for the fixing of runner babies AND finally getting the possibility of carrying babies around with something other than your own hands.
Thoughts?

Now I know, I did suggest something blasphemous and that is baby carrying tech.
But that was only to balance out the idea I put forward.
If babies couldn't move much on their own, you wouldn't even be able to ask them to follow you if you have to carry something impossible to put in a backpack.
Like wood for the fire as Eve or if you are dragging a cart in a more advanced civilization.
It could be more sensible, too. Maybe not as OP as being able to put four babies in a single cart.
It also kind of makes more sense. Human babies don't learn to walk instantly in real life and even after they do they are fairly slow at it. Asking a child under five to follow a running adult is pretty unrealistic.

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#21 2019-02-21 14:16:57

Taz
Member
Registered: 2018-12-08
Posts: 41

Re: The instant-suicide mod

jasonrohrer wrote:

Options:

1.  It could, as suggested in the github issue, just disconnect you instead of killing you.  That will essentially just block this mod.

2.  /die could be extended to cover the case when your mother is NOT holding you.


Neither of these options addresses the problem that regardless of which method a baby uses to suicide, it creates skeleton trash that the village has to deal with.  I understand that skeleton trash is part of the game, and that's fine, when it happens as an organic part of the intended gameplay.  Babies dying from neglect is organic gameplay.  Babies suiciding isn't.  We shouldn't be punished in the game with having to constantly be cleaning up baby skeleton trash. 

Please, please, please, please, pleeeeaaaassse make the skeletons of anyone who dies under the age of 2 disappear after like 10 seconds.

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#22 2019-02-21 14:36:50

WomanWizard
Member
Registered: 2018-05-11
Posts: 210

Re: The instant-suicide mod

Just hopping in here because my name was mentioned and Léonard is absolutely right about many things. Simply removing the ability for players to disconnect with the mod is going to result in griefers. The fact that so many people use this feature (and I'm talking as someone who has had some lives recently where maybe three of my eleven to fourteen children don't suicide) proves that the current slash die function doesn't meet the needs of a fairly sizable player base.

So I'm here, like many others, voting for a combination of both options one and two. The disconnect issue needs to be fixed because it makes fertility kind of pointless while someone with the mod is looking for a specific life. They keep getting born back to the same highly fertile mothers, wreck their cooldowns, and in the end leave them with pretty much the same number of babies had they not been yum chaining and staying warm. Mind you this is a guess as to why some of these lives have been so rough with disconnects, so if some mod users could chip in and tell me if this is happening to them, that would be great.

I think there's no harm in extending the timer on slash die to two minutes after birth, for those who have slow computers or who's mothers didn't show them around town right away. And let them slash die when their mothers aren't holding them. So many people are already in the nursery with a wet nurse by the time they spawn in game that they can't use the feature properly.

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#23 2019-02-21 15:55:12

Spoonwood
Member
Registered: 2019-02-06
Posts: 2,900

Re: The instant-suicide mod

Taz wrote:
jasonrohrer wrote:

Options:

1.  It could, as suggested in the github issue, just disconnect you instead of killing you.  That will essentially just block this mod.

2.  /die could be extended to cover the case when your mother is NOT holding you.


Neither of these options addresses the problem that regardless of which method a baby uses to suicide, it creates skeleton trash that the village has to deal with.  I understand that skeleton trash is part of the game, and that's fine, when it happens as an organic part of the intended gameplay.  Babies dying from neglect is organic gameplay.  Babies suiciding isn't.  We shouldn't be punished in the game with having to constantly be cleaning up baby skeleton trash. 

Please, please, please, please, pleeeeaaaassse make the skeletons of anyone who dies under the age of 2 disappear after like 10 seconds.

So I will fully admit that I have been a 'baby runner' before.  I started using shift+delete after a while, but even though I had read people say that one shouldn't do that, I had been in villages cleaning up skeleton trash.  Heck, I remember one old man once standing near me before I was three and saying to me 'child I will die soon'.  I tried to spell out 'run clu ter'.  Then he died.  The woman caring for me said 'only you can prevent forest fires'.  Someone had to clean up his bones after (damn old man!).  I'm trying to point out that bone clutter can make for something of a problem and someone seemed to agree with me.  So, I have sometimes preferred to run as a baby, and thought it polite to at least some people (yeah... it would confuse moms sometimes and they would sadly chase me... I didn't like that... but what can I say other than you get to pick your friends!).   I might not have been a baby runner if my bones wouldn't clutter up the place, so I like Taz's suggestion.

I think Leonard has a lot of strong points also.  And that might be an understatement.  His comment might be strong on every point.

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#24 2019-02-21 16:17:35

CatX
Member
From: Norway
Registered: 2019-02-11
Posts: 438

Re: The instant-suicide mod

I would also like to chime in and say that people are going to find ways to play what they want no matter what. So perhaps giving them a little more say in the circumstances of their births from the log-in menu would result in fewer baby bone piles.

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#25 2019-02-21 16:41:23

fragilityh14
Member
Registered: 2018-03-21
Posts: 556

Re: The instant-suicide mod

Dodge wrote:

Can we have a /die to be banned from a specific mother and not the lineage, sometimes they do small camps that look like eve camps they dont have lastname you /die and you get banned from whole lineage.


They deserve to be banned from the whole lineage, people do that to me all the time and it pisses me off.

1) Last names don't actually matter, despite how obsessed with them people are. We're all looking up our own lives via email address and it takes you right there. The only reason names matter is because babies inexplicably suicide if they don't see a last name, despite it having no other impact on gameplay. [true, you can't curse the nameless, but as a player this only possibly helps you, though i've never been cursed]

2) This is why we're not getting long term sustainable situations, because people suicide out of scion branches of families if they see anyone in the wild who isn't an Eve.



Kids very often don't even give me long enough to explain why I've left the city, and it's almost always for a good reason, such as its overpopulated enough that there wasn't an obvious way to contribute, was violent/culty, or were idiots on the brink of collapse. I usually always tell them where i'm from, if they're willing to hang around long enough to find out.

If i'm in the woods 75% of the time the kid doesn't want to be in that lineage. [though, kids will often suicide if i'm living in a city and just running to gather firewood or whatever. they seem to be really hostile to moms working at all]


I'll tell you what I tell all my children: Make basket, always carry food.

Listen to your mom!

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