Berry farms CAN BE TOO BIG - important for new players!

MultiLife · 2018-11-10 15:00:46

Hello people! Especially new people!

Life is short, and it's even shorter when you run out of food.
Expanding the berry farm seems like a good thing to do, and in some scale, it is! BUT!

Berry farms drain water and soil in great amounts. There needs to be a balance with the size of a berry farm.
We need soil and water for better foods than just simple gooseberries. You can ask for people to teach you a recipe (pies, stew, omelettes).

Before tilling a new row of soil for berries, stop to think these few things:
- should I expand wheat farm instead?
- should I expand carrot farm instead?
- should I expand stew farm instead? (this means corn, beans, squash: stew ingredients)
- should I just take care of already existing berry bushes instead of adding more to take care of?
- should I stop relying on berries and start learning how to make better foods?
- should I ask if someone is open to teaching recipes?
If you feel like the berry farm is too small and always out of berries, do make some new rows.

Don't worry if you feel like you aren't doing enough! Sometimes it's better to not do things so you don't mess up other people's projects. Grab a pie and give yourself some time to watch others and ask for teachers. Ask about compost, stew and pies! Soon you will learn that soil and water have many better places in a town!

Veterans in Steam, feel free to copy paste this in forums. I haven't activated my game there yet.

Last edited by MultiLife (2018-11-10 15:03:58)

pein · 2018-11-10 17:38:15

i was going in the middle of berry field and asked people if they are sheep
cause only sheep eats berry
was kinda hilarious, and good way to get the attention
some people came to help create bread and pies

well generally all berry can go in bowls, but at least half of it, so you gain the yum bonus and you can fix the field sooner
now this means you need a bowl for every 2 bushes

you can still eat it from bowl
would be polite to eat from bushes that are started and bowls that are missing some
with a bit of work 20 bushes can produce enough berries and the extra in bowls helps making compost and feed sheep
this needs of course some extra bowls made which i rarely see, people just make plates and crocks

picking off half of bushes and leaving half to eat creates a good timing on the return of berries so you don't have full 8 minutes when all is gone

also worth to mention that scouting the town is easier if you got four smaller berry field instead of one
one compost makes 7 which is 21 soil bowls
so maximum 21 bushes in a batch are enough

with this big families and lot of new kids i always end up making bread and compost, baskets

maybe i try new setups on small berry farms

tana · 2018-11-10 19:26:02

it is also good to spread food around the berry field like cut bread and pots of stew, it will show new players alternative foods.
Don't cut the bread directly at the bakery as it will block the workspace around untill the bread is eaten.
don't put all the pots of stew in one place, rather spread them around in pairs.

happynova · 2018-11-10 19:44:56

tana wrote:

don't put all the pots of stew in one place, rather spread them around in pairs.

And always, always, make sure there is a bowl next to the stew pot. People won't eat it if they can't get it out of the crock!

It's also, I think, a good idea if you have a brand new player to actively show them pies and stew pots and whatever else you have. For brand new players, everything they don't know already is just so much random visual clutter. They may be sticking with berry bushes just because that's the only thing they recognize as food. (Especially as I think often one of the first things they do in the game is to try to eat a few non-edible things, and then give up trying.)

It's sad (if also just a teeny bit hilarious) when a newbie stands there staring at a patch of empty berry bushes shouting, "Food! Food? Food?!" when there's three pies, a full crock of stew, and a plate of burritos within a three-tile radius. Or course, by the time they get to that point, they may be panicking so hard they don't even hear you if you try to point it out...

ShadouFireborn · 2018-11-10 20:59:37

I want to correct a misconception here before it spreads any further.

The size of the berry farm has NO BEARING ON HOW MUCH DIRT AND WATER IT USES.

Yes, there is an initial investment in dirt and water for creating each berry plot. But the size of the berry farm has no bearing, absolutely none, on the amount of additional dirt and water it uses. As long as one berry remains on the bush, the bush will NEVER need water or dirt again. Until the berry bush has been completely stripped, it will NOT have any additional drain on your dirt or water. But once it's been stripped, THEN it needs to have dirt placed and be watered.

This means that THE SIZE of the berry farm has no relation to the amount of resources it drains. However, this also means that THE DEMAND for berries is directly related to the amount of resources the berry farm drains. The more berries are eaten, the more resources it takes to keep the berry farm.

There is LITERALLY no disadvantage to a large sized berry farm. There are only advantages. A larger berry farm can support a larger population, and allows more time for people to fertilize and water the stripped bushes and the berries to regrow before berry famine starts to set in. Yes, there's spikes in dirt and water usage as more berries are stripped from more bushes... but those berries would have been stripped and eaten anyway, even on a smaller farm. The larger farm can simply support more demand. There is no reason to advocate for smaller farms. Berry famine kills as surely as dirt and water famine does.

happynova · 2018-11-10 21:20:24

ShadouFireborn wrote:

There is LITERALLY no disadvantage to a large sized berry farm. There are only advantages. A larger berry farm can support a larger population, and allows more time for people to fertilize and water the stripped bushes and the berries to regrow before berry famine starts to set in. Yes, there's spikes in dirt and water usage as more berries are stripped from more bushes... but those berries would have been stripped and eaten anyway, even on a smaller farm. The larger farm can simply support more demand. There is no reason to advocate for smaller farms. Berry famine kills as surely as dirt and water famine does.

Well, all other things being equal, that's true, but if you factor in human psychology, there's a strong argument to be made that if the berry farm is enormous, people will eat enormous numbers of berries and not bother with other kinds of food that would in fact be more efficient. At some point, people get so used to the idea that the berries will always be abundant, and so much in the habit of constantly munching on them, that it can become difficult or impossible to keep up with the demand. You can get into a sort of tragedy-of-the-commons situation with huge berry fields surprisingly easily.

Whereas a more moderate-sized berry farm is at least somewhat more likely to encourage moderation in berry-eating and a slightly more diverse diet (with the yum-bonus advantages that gives). I think there's a sweet spot in berry farm size in there. In my experience, you get berry famines in two situations: when the berry plot is very small for the number of people it's trying to support (generally in early-gen camps), and when it's freaking enormous and everybody's eating from it faster than they're tending it.

There's also a danger in relying on berries as a primary food source, which is that berries are essential to making the soil to grow the berries, so that if you do manage to get to the point where all the berries are stripped and there's no soil around to maintain them, you're kind of screwed. The cycle is broken. That's not an issue with, say, stew.

Dacen · 2018-11-10 21:24:11

Berries are the easiest food. If the berry farm is little and can't sustain the need of people, they will less likely set in. A little berry farm, mainly used for sheeps, force people to rely on other food. And lot of food have less water and soil use than berries, and don't take so much time for the amount of food it give , especially when you are adult with pies and stews.

Most of the time if there is a too big berry farm lot of people focus on it instead of other foods. A big berry farm increase the demand of berries, people will go to the easiest, huge berry farm encourage huge berry use.

edit : happynova preceded me !

Last edited by Dacen (2018-11-10 21:25:55)

Randomname · 2018-11-10 21:53:39

Big berry farms do not annoy me, what does is big berry farms that have no gaps or spaces to place bowls/baskets/dirt. I am personally a fan of the five by five berry plots surrounded by floor tiles to me they look good and they are practical. Make two (fifty bushes) and you should have enough to feed a fairly large village as long as the berries are refreshed often.

It is frustrating though when you have plans, tell people those plans but they still join up your two separate berry plots or use the dirt around berries (which is there to refresh the bushes) to expand. Not the worst thing in the world but still irritating.

I still often fall into the habits of eating berries, mostly when I have no backpack and I am working compost or on the berries it's easy food without detours.

I still remember being a new player and getting yelled at for munching on anything that was not berries. Pies are for adults (even when I was trying to learn to cook), carrots are not food (got stabbed once for that), which lead to me as a not so new player who made it to adulthood for the first time still eating berries and mostly working near berries to be near food. Hunger is very difficult to manage when you are new to the game.

MultiLife · 2018-11-10 21:55:56

ShadouFireborn wrote:

The size of the berry farm has NO BEARING ON HOW MUCH DIRT AND WATER IT USES.
Yes, there is an initial investment in dirt and water for creating each berry plot. But the size of the berry farm has no bearing, absolutely none, on the amount of additional dirt and water it uses. As long as one berry remains on the bush, the bush will NEVER need water or dirt again. Until the berry bush has been completely stripped, it will NOT have any additional drain on your dirt or water. But once it's been stripped, THEN it needs to have dirt placed and be watered.
This means that THE SIZE of the berry farm has no relation to the amount of resources it drains. However, this also means that THE DEMAND for berries is directly related to the amount of resources the berry farm drains. The more berries are eaten, the more resources it takes to keep the berry farm.
There is LITERALLY no disadvantage to a large sized berry farm. There are only advantages. A larger berry farm can support a larger population, and allows more time for people to fertilize and water the stripped bushes and the berries to regrow before berry famine starts to set in. Yes, there's spikes in dirt and water usage as more berries are stripped from more bushes... but those berries would have been stripped and eaten anyway, even on a smaller farm. The larger farm can simply support more demand. There is no reason to advocate for smaller farms. Berry famine kills as surely as dirt and water famine does.

Thing is, if you are expanding a berry farm, you are taking away soil from other uses. That's the point of this. This can kill a town by cutting out compost for example. Do not expand a berry farm if it's not needed; the soil may be needed elsewhere as it usually is. Newbies are eager to make a huge berry farm as that's what they know the best, not realizing they are using soil that would've been used to expand wheat fields, carrot farms or stew farms. A huge berry farm requires large amount of composting which requires carrots and wheat. A huge berry farm keeps draining soil as the bushes languish. They keep draining water that could have been in baking or in other farming. More "processed foods" like stew are more profitable with the amount of food value they have. Now I haven't gone to details with the value and worth of food but I dare to believe that sacrificing soil to make huge berry farms nobody can keep up is just bad.
But yes, if people wouldn't rely on berries, it wouldn't be so bad to have big farms of berries when soil is plentiful. But remember, the point is to not expand the berry farm when it's not needed. Expanding to huge farms without tending to other things is bad and causes a domino effect.

Last edited by MultiLife (2018-11-10 22:00:56)

tana · 2018-11-10 21:57:02

Also big berry farm creates a whol new generations of players that don't know any othr food, and primarily rely on berries for food...
We barely just now finally educated enough players to get out of that mentality that the new berry mechanics had first created a few month back and I fear it's coming back now with that massive influx of new players that don't know anything else because berries are the fasted, easiest for them to pick up.
we should really prepare and get a lot of corn to make popcorn instead.

As a rule of thumbs, if you're envisaging expanding the berry farm, look at it first... if there are empty and yellow bushes, no need to expand, use the soil to tend for those instead, they will replenish the berries faster than planting a new one since you also need to add the growing time of the bush first.

Last edited by tana (2018-11-10 21:59:45)

MultiLife · 2018-11-10 22:27:50

pein wrote:

i was going in the middle of berry field and asked people if they are sheep
cause only sheep eats berry
was kinda hilarious, and good way to get the attention
some people came to help create bread and pies
...
with this big families and lot of new kids i always end up making bread and compost, baskets
maybe i try new setups on small berry farms

Hah, nice. Good call, gathering newbies in a berry farm. "Come along, my berry-munching sheep!"
I taught some pie stuff to few newbies today, they were so excited about it.
I wonder if you made the farming structure in one "city" with wooden planks laid around the place, bordering nice sized farms for stew, berries and other stuff. The farm yards seemed to have a very systematical order and were never expanded, while the wooden floors were kept tidy and worked well as pathways.

I always wondered if we could ever get this sort of "everyone has their small garden to tend for" world, so instead of a community berry farm, we could have smaller ones around the cities and tend to them when needed. Maybe it's not as functional as it sounds, but I'd rather see berries as something less common to eat in big towns and cities, like it is in real world. Berries are not our lunch.

tana wrote:

it is also good to spread food around the berry field like cut bread and pots of stew, it will show new players alternative foods.
Don't cut the bread directly at the bakery as it will block the workspace around untill the bread is eaten.
don't put all the pots of stew in one place, rather spread them around in pairs.

Yep, I cut a bread in an intersection of roads next to a berry farm today. Saw newbies store slices in their aprons or backpacks, it was nice. Does the dough still rise if you leave one piece in the bowl for bread or was that changed?

happynova wrote:

It's also, I think, a good idea if you have a brand new player to actively show them pies and stew pots and whatever else you have. For brand new players, everything they don't know already is just so much random visual clutter. They may be sticking with berry bushes just because that's the only thing they recognize as food. (Especially as I think often one of the first things they do in the game is to try to eat a few non-edible things, and then give up trying.)
It's sad (if also just a teeny bit hilarious) when a newbie stands there staring at a patch of empty berry bushes shouting, "Food! Food? Food?!" when there's three pies, a full crock of stew, and a plate of burritos within a three-tile radius. Or course, by the time they get to that point, they may be panicking so hard they don't even hear you if you try to point it out...

Yeah, I think the tutorial is partly to blame in this as it just shows you berries, right? Berries are a start, yeah, but it does make newbies cling onto them more, dying to the first berry drought. I was witnessing it today. I died to old age before managing to direct the people to the stew, pies and omelettes around them. I fed some adults who were saying "My food bar is low" "I need food" "Food??", saved probably like five newbies from starving.

happynova wrote:

I think there's a sweet spot in berry farm size in there. In my experience, you get berry famines in two situations: when the berry plot is very small for the number of people it's trying to support (generally in early-gen camps), and when it's freaking enormous and everybody's eating from it faster than they're tending it.

Yes, this is the thing, there is a good size of a berry farm per camp, town or city. Expanding to a huge farm when it's not needed can end with people running out of soil. And when it's huge, if everyone just eats and nobody keeps it up as "it's so huge it won't run out soon", at some point you walk into a languishing field of berries with dry wells everywhere. Sometimes a composter has died and all newbies have wandered off to try other things, and suddenly there is no soil and nobody taking care of berries.

Dacen wrote:

Most of the time if there is a too big berry farm lot of people focus on it instead of other foods. A big berry farm increase the demand of berries, people will go to the easiest, huge berry farm encourage huge berry use.

Yeppers! Give them huge berry farms and tend to them, and notice how nobody moves out on better recipes! Then see them fall, as the huge farm runs out of soil or tending people, with population keeping the booms ongoing.

tana wrote:

We barely just now finally educated enough players to get out of that mentality that the new berry mechanics had first created a few month back and I fear it's coming back now with that massive influx of new players that don't know anything else because berries are the fasted, easiest for them to pick up.
we should really prepare and get a lot of corn to make popcorn instead.
As a rule of thumbs, if you're envisaging expanding the berry farm, look at it first... if there are empty and yellow bushes, no need to expand, use the soil to tend for those instead, they will replenish the berries faster than planting a new one since you also need to add the growing time of the bush first.

Yes, popcorn and some corn fields could be a good way to introduce foods to newbies. A newbie was very excited over popcorn when I showed them it today. Also keeps them focusing on some fire tending too. Otherwise a very fun and simple food to teach!
And yeah, many newbies can't understand the soil part of berry tending, understandably it can be odd as the logic is "just add water right?".

Last edited by MultiLife (2018-11-10 22:30:12)

Fetch · 2018-11-10 23:26:42

Thanks for posting this. Busting butt to keep the stew farm going, while all these new players stand in the berry patch and munch, is driving me nuts. Yes I could tell them to eat other stuff, but if I have to stop my work ever 2 minutes to lecture people it gets dull for me.

MultiLife · 2018-11-10 23:53:50

Fetch wrote:

Thanks for posting this. Busting butt to keep the stew farm going, while all these new players stand in the berry patch and munch, is driving me nuts. Yes I could tell them to eat other stuff, but if I have to stop my work ever 2 minutes to lecture people it gets dull for me.

No problemo. Just trying to intervene as soon as possible; I've seen my fair share of new players believing they are doing a good thing when they spend their life expanding a berry farm, blissfully unaware of other farms trying to compete for soil and water. I just saw a new player in my recent life who was expanding a green biome berry farm in a small town where the stew farms, milkweed and carrots were nearly nonexistent - gotta get those on track to have a balance. I had to build so many wells and deep wells to keep water going to other things than berries, but man did it feel like a race against drought and soil apocalypse. The berry farm expanding lady and a random toddler questioned why I was against the expansion, glad I had enough seconds left to explain it briefly so they both learnt that there are other things that are being neglected if the focus is on berries. I can only hope they look into the other farming options, inspired by this odd new information!

pein · 2018-11-11 10:09:34

ShadouFireborn wrote:

I want to correct a misconception here before it spreads any further.
The size of the berry farm has NO BEARING ON HOW MUCH DIRT AND WATER IT USES.
Yes, there is an initial investment in dirt and water for creating each berry plot. But the size of the berry farm has no bearing, absolutely none, on the amount of additional dirt and water it uses. As long as one berry remains on the bush, the bush will NEVER need water or dirt again. Until the berry bush has been completely stripped, it will NOT have any additional drain on your dirt or water. But once it's been stripped, THEN it needs to have dirt placed and be watered.
This means that THE SIZE of the berry farm has no relation to the amount of resources it drains. However, this also means that THE DEMAND for berries is directly related to the amount of resources the berry farm drains. The more berries are eaten, the more resources it takes to keep the berry farm.
There is LITERALLY no disadvantage to a large sized berry farm. There are only advantages. A larger berry farm can support a larger population, and allows more time for people to fertilize and water the stripped bushes and the berries to regrow before berry famine starts to set in. Yes, there's spikes in dirt and water usage as more berries are stripped from more bushes... but those berries would have been stripped and eaten anyway, even on a smaller farm. The larger farm can simply support more demand. There is no reason to advocate for smaller farms. Berry famine kills as surely as dirt and water famine does.

let me tell you something
there is a thing called FIBMA
famine induced by making aprons
i often did triplet/quad with Pharoh, Mirelli, Turnip and Baker
once we were 3 girls, in a big family
you need to know about Mirelli, shes the ace of the skirts and seal skins, she goes into wilderness and 2 minutes later comes back in a seal skin and a skirt
me and pharaoh has similar playstyle, we rush aprons, before age 10 we got apron and knife
once we jumped into berry field, fed all to the sheep, made 2 aprons (12 berry bowls). in such a short time, all the field was gone
we used the rest to make compost
we created a fibma, and maybe 6 out of 30 people survived it
this was by accident, we still had other food, bread, pies, stew, yet most people died without berry

now we do it intentionally sometimes, Baker asked me the other day if we should kill some lazy ass people or potential griefers
i told him no, we just make a fibma and thats enough

no regrets, why?
im tired of feeding ignorant people who don't want to do their part
i don't fix berries, this is the job what kids do, this is the job every mom gives to their kids cause they don't know better
this is so basic that no one should even consider to question
you are a kid, you need to grow, you can toss the soil on berries, water it, eat when needed and grow up, then do whatever you want
the fixed berry returns in 8 min, goes off in 2 and if you are a baby girl, your daughter will have something to eat
yet i got to do it when i can find no more berries, you cannot complain i made the best use of berry , apron is a long lasting clothing, mutton itself is more calories than 6 berries and a carrot

im doing the shepherd job long time ago, i make pens very long time ago
i feed sheep, make compost, plant carrot, plant wheat, make the tools needed, clean out an maintain, extend, generally under 1 life
i make straw hats, compost, bread
sometimes even carry the mutton to the oven or make 4 chests and an oven with a bush for megamutonator to cook the rest of raw meat, now i can even gather clay and make extra plates and baskets, but this is it, already too many jobs, i need people to clean up the bones, the treshed wheat, this are local job, near food, no risk of leaving city, no risk of animals, not a complex task, if there are 10 other people in the city this shouldn't be an issue if everyone cooperates

now the most preferred job by choice is pie making
every town has a baker, sometimes 4 or more
i rarely see people who can use up all the mutton i create this way and i do the bigger part of the job, you should have no issue fixing the berry field using the ready made compost near it

the initial investment is a hoe tilling, that's 1 usage of hoe, each new tile is 1 tilling which is part of losing iron
the initial update on berry, which reduced regrowth from 60 to 8 minutes made it possible to make huge fields
and even the water usage wasn't a problem
the need of soil and water made it less efficient. its not the meta anymore, big berry fields are the past, the West family is the past.
the only advantage of berry is that requires no tilling, compared to carrot, which is faster but needs tilling every time breaking multiple hoes
now you are right there is no risk having more but there is no reward either, a new bush is slower than fixing an existing one, takes 12 minutes to grow berry, while a brown bush takes 8 to regrow it
you create jobs for others they cannot fulfill
a guy planted like 40 bushes and i was already picking off most of it so it annoyed the hell out of me those 4 minutes wasted on each bush nobody fixed
technically each time you restart a berry bush, you make the initial cost pay back
i see a lot of misplaced berry bushes, technically you need to have a free tile near each pond, and if possible connect those free tiles with a road
i did this many times, i even cut out a full column to put roads when they left a free column to do so, but was more optimal long term to move it one to the right, if a bush is un-optimally placed, you shouldn't fix it, rather relocate it

now lets go with facts:
-berry is not an optimal food, veterans don't plant berry to eat it, they do it out of pity toward newbies. most of us could survive on wild food, but sometimes you need a noob to give birth to a pro grandkid
an average player can produce enough to sustain itself, sustaining others is a sacrifice made, in return we want people to learn, work hard and help the city
-berry is planted mainly because composting is required to sustain long term survival. berry is for the sheep, one bowl for dung, one bowl for compost, eating it is un-optimal usage of soil and water.
-if you plant stew, you don't plant it in a way that you have problem cutting it, same way, you should optimize berry field for the main workers: shepherds
a shepherd will put down a bowl next to a bush, pick down 6 and take to carrot, this means ideally each bush has at least 1 free tile maximum 2 tiles away, if you got a big field where there are no spaces, it means your intention is to feed it to people
some of us is forced to dig out the bushes to make roads, which is time lost, initial berry seed, tilling, soil lost for one kindling, but long term makes the work faster, now i don't even talk about the frustration caused by people who fix those bushes or plant more in al lthe wrong places
-you cant plant so big berry field i cannot pick down, its not about the size of it, its about the output, now there is a minimum output where you got no other food, no iron to plant other plants, no fire and chance to make one and no wild berries, cacti.
at this point you need to fix bushes, get soil and water it. lets say you do it and you got the bushes back, if nothing changes, you got 8 minutes to pick it off and do it again. on a normal biome you lose 5 sec/pip (average case considering you don't go on extreme temperature tiles, and don't overeat, also you don't stay on balanced temperature) which is 12 pip/min which is 96 pip per 8 year which is 19.2 berries, that's less than 3 bushes per person. if those circumstances consist, people go out to scavenge or stay in desert edge to eat, and work on other food too. its not a bad thing to lose some people to make the rest aware of the situation.
worst case scenario 60 bushes can sustain 20 people, considering a healthy family of 12 people (granny, granpa, 2 daughters, 4 granddaughters 4 grandsons- average lifespan will be around 40 years? but new kids replace old ones) that's merely 36 bushes on 100% berry consumption, which should never be the case. you can have 120 bushes, it wont help long term, the convenience of having more ready food wont save the lineage and makes people more unaware of problems. why to fix bushes when others do it? why to eat other things when there is a lot of berry? why not to make a totally useless stone room rather than working on better food?
same goes for having girl kids, first girl is invaluable, second is for backup, third is backup of the backup. 4 to 10 is just a disaster. you don't need 10 females same time, you need 2-3 decent each 14 minutes. same way you don't need 60 bushes, you need 21 bushes fixed every 8-10 minutes(8 when already languishing, 10 min to fix same bush, this pushes the number to 120 pip per min which is still 24 berry 3.5 bush per person).
now each berry bowl contains half of this plus one yum each time eaten after raw berry decreasing raw necessary bushes with 33% after first refills, so 2 bushes per person picked off to 1 berry bowl per person
having berry bushes out of convenience is ok
having berry bowls for convenience is smarter
not having enough bowls to do this is laziness
not making compost/not gathering soil is suicide

so psychological effects:
having a big berry field= unskilled people made the city with no plan on producing other food, smart kids will suicide
having no free tiles near bushes = you don't care about making shepherds life easier, decreasing the chances of anyone having mood to take this job, most of bushes will never be fixed, seems like you expect one person to feed everyone
planting more bushes rather than fixing existing ones= you are wasteful, and you create jobs without the assurance that anyone willing to do it

now with eggs
each pond with goose produces 1 egg per 10 min
you lose 120 pips per ten min
you produce 19 pips with each omelette, so in case if you pick off each egg in time, 6 ponds can sustain one adult
each cactus produces 10 pips per 10 min which is 12 cactus per person for 100%
each wild berry bush produces 5 pips per 10 min which is 60 wild bushes to sustain 1 person
this are ideal cases but you can still have an estimation how many pips the map produces

the goal is to reduce berry usage under 50% so you can have mutton pies, cooked mutton, bread, best would be under 10% or even 0, just feed kids and elders pop corn

one last fun fact
if you spend your life around the desert edges having normal to ideal temperature you will consume 6 pips -12 pips per min if full time on normal biomes (no desert no ice)
360-720 pips during your life which is planting/fixing 72-144 bushes and eating only when needed, safe to say is around 100 bushes if you explore some, try to stay in edge of desert while talking and not overeat much. that should feed you all your life but you cannot just plant 100 bushes for each person so he will never have to work on food in his life

Fibma is the shepherd/compost maker strike, stop being lazy. it's a sacrifice from us spending our time to make you soil, so you don't have to travel further and further. don't enforce a sacrifice.
now i cant calculate how much i eat each life, probably close to 500 pips
maybe i overeat sometimes, surely i wont stay on a balanced tile cause i rush clothing, exploring, gathering
but i always produce more than the calories i eat or make up for it making useful, convenient things which got quality of life improvement, i know others wont, im ok taking care of 3 other people. same with spamming babies, dividing resources is not your decision because it influences other peoples lifes. having more doesn't mean its better.

Last edited by pein (2018-11-11 23:04:46)

tana · 2018-11-11 10:23:59

pein wrote:

im tired of feeding ignorant people who don't want to do their part

That is really harsh... plus you're contradicting yourself... If ppl are ignorant, they don't know any better so they really cannot do their part. It is up to us to actively teach as many as possible.
Especially considering that roughly 4/5th or the players right now are mostly new players that have absolutely no clue on what to do.

pein · 2018-11-11 10:26:01

MultiLife wrote:

Hah, nice. Good call, gathering newbies in a berry farm. "Come along, my berry-munching sheep!"
I taught some pie stuff to few newbies today, they were so excited about it.
I wonder if you made the farming structure in one "city" with wooden planks laid around the place, bordering nice sized farms for stew, berries and other stuff. The farm yards seemed to have a very systematical order and were never expanded, while the wooden floors were kept tidy and worked well as pathways.
I always wondered if we could ever get this sort of "everyone has their small garden to tend for" world, so instead of a community berry farm, we could have smaller ones around the cities and tend to them when needed. Maybe it's not as functional as it sounds, but I'd rather see berries as something less common to eat in big towns and cities, like it is in real world. Berries are not our lunch.

oh yeah, i will do it until it becomes mainstream
when i will be called sheep for it, i will ''baaaa'' in peace

i taught my last girl to make crust , she starved. dunno where the other 12 girls went, like 8 guys survived, took 10 min to them to realize no babies are coming. like 4 of us stayed til lend anyway.

it was originally morti who did that, setting them up in 3x3 and making roads first, i don't even get why we cant do more spaces in between, columns of berry, checkboard of berry and wooden tiles, berry lines instead of cubes, seriously so many possibilities.

i was bored and out of protest, digged bushes and made roads in middle, like Moses in tomato soup. posted on forum, did it multiple lifes the same week waiting for update.
after a while i seen others doing it

once i was in a city with a nice spot, plenty of wells but they dried out fast, i realized until i get old we run out of water

i found a spot with a pond, made my tiny berry farm with 3x8 bushes, tiles around it, 4 chests in pen wall, middle entrance, upgrade to well, upgrade to pond, compost, apron, milkweed farm, buckets, carts, etc. was the most green district of all city.
much more optimal than taking berry in cart trough city to pen, take back meat to oven and repeat it like twice in a life, i had everything near and after third refresh on bushes the pen was full of sheep.

i had a week when my laptop broke down and using my sisters tiny laptop with no ram, realized how bad it is having one single berry field, lags you out standing near it, starves you going away from it. definitely should be 1 middle, 1 every corner, i don't mind if its 21 bushes each. we don't need to be at the same place same time, impossible to fit 30 people in a city with one generic oven, 1 small pen and nothing to actually do.

pein · 2018-11-11 10:46:00

tana wrote:

pein wrote:
im tired of feeding ignorant people who don't want to do their part
That is really harsh... plus you're contradicting yourself... If ppl are ignorant, they don't know any better so they really cannot do their part. It is up to us to actively teach as many as possible.
Especially considering that roughly 4/5th or the players right now are mostly new players that have absolutely no clue on what to do.

new never meant ignorant, i see lot of people who ask for a job every time and listen so carefully when you command them to do things and happy with contributing
understanding that this game is hard and things don't come from thin air improves on attitude
before my first eve runs i didn't really cared about initiating, i could farm if i had a bowl, i could survive if i had food
i still see this mustache boys who can eat and survive until 60, they think they are kind of the world, but they get envious so they try to kill you for gear and deny everything when you dodge it, and cant accept the reality that their 50 hours of experience wont save them from retaliation
or the berry eating housewifes who give every clothing to their kids and suicide at 40, they are kinda useful but its not like they improve your experience in any way

gabal · 2018-11-11 12:01:28

pein wrote:

MultiLife wrote:
Hah, nice. Good call, gathering newbies in a berry farm. "Come along, my berry-munching sheep!"
I taught some pie stuff to few newbies today, they were so excited about it.
I wonder if you made the farming structure in one "city" with wooden planks laid around the place, bordering nice sized farms for stew, berries and other stuff. The farm yards seemed to have a very systematical order and were never expanded, while the wooden floors were kept tidy and worked well as pathways.
I always wondered if we could ever get this sort of "everyone has their small garden to tend for" world, so instead of a community berry farm, we could have smaller ones around the cities and tend to them when needed. Maybe it's not as functional as it sounds, but I'd rather see berries as something less common to eat in big towns and cities, like it is in real world. Berries are not our lunch.
oh yeah, i will do it until it becomes mainstream
when i will be called sheep for it, i will ''baaaa'' in peace
i taught my last girl to make crust , she starved. dunno where the other 12 girls went, like 8 guys survived, took 10 min to them to realize no babies are coming. like 4 of us stayed til lend anyway.
it was originally morti who did that, setting them up in 3x3 and making roads first, i don't even get why we cant do more spaces in between, columns of berry, checkboard of berry and wooden tiles, berry lines instead of cubes, seriously so many possibilities.
i was bored and out of protest, digged bushes and made roads in middle, like Moses in tomato soup. posted on forum, did it multiple lifes the same week waiting for update.
after a while i seen others doing it
once i was in a city with a nice spot, plenty of wells but they dried out fast, i realized until i get old we run out of water
i found a spot with a pond, made my tiny berry farm with 3x8 bushes, tiles around it, 4 chests in pen wall, middle entrance, upgrade to well, upgrade to pond, compost, apron, milkweed farm, buckets, carts, etc. was the most green district of all city.
much more optimal than taking berry in cart trough city to pen, take back meat to oven and repeat it like twice in a life, i had everything near and after third refresh on bushes the pen was full of sheep.
i had a week when my laptop broke down and using my sisters tiny laptop with no ram, realized how bad it is having one single berry field, lags you out standing near it, starves you going away from it. definitely should be 1 middle, 1 every corner, i don't mind if its 21 bushes each. we don't need to be at the same place same time, impossible to fit 30 people in a city with one generic oven, 1 small pen and nothing to actually do.

I made an apron and backpack to a player who fixed berry field like you mention as thanks. Huge fields are horrible to pick in bowl from so you have to run around like crazy to fill bowl with berries.

Catfive · 2018-11-11 14:10:41

ShadouFireborn wrote:

I want to correct a misconception here before it spreads any further.
The size of the berry farm has NO BEARING ON HOW MUCH DIRT AND WATER IT USES.
Yes, there is an initial investment in dirt and water for creating each berry plot. But the size of the berry farm has no bearing, absolutely none, on the amount of additional dirt and water it uses. As long as one berry remains on the bush, the bush will NEVER need water or dirt again. Until the berry bush has been completely stripped, it will NOT have any additional drain on your dirt or water. But once it's been stripped, THEN it needs to have dirt placed and be watered.

News at 11: if you don't eat you don't need to make more food

Starknight_One · 2018-11-11 14:16:39

Sorry about the premature post.

This is an idea I've been tooling around with. I designed it as sort of a one-man outpost, but it could easily be the basis of a distributed farming system.

Each 30 minutes it can produce:
8 mutton pies
5 pots of stew
3 bowls of popcorn
11 berries and 6 carrots not needed for anything

That's 1451 food points based on OneTech values, not counting the invisible +2 bonus. (Adding that gives another 282 food points for a total of 1733). Water runs on a positive cycle with 4 wells (31 bowls used). Soil is handled by composting; a cycle produces 26 extra soil (22 used out of 48 generated). Each cycle uses .44 iron. You could just use the extra soil and water to pop more berries, if you really needed them, or grow more carrots. You could even skip composting every other cycle and use the straw to make a basket.

Diversifying your pies a bit in the interest of Yum bonus, you can do:
4 mutton pies
3 berry carrot pies
1 loaf bread (unless you can't make bread from one use of dough anymore - make another pie then)
5 pots of stew
3 bowls of popcorn
5 berries and 5 carrots not needed for anything
1 leftover straw

This way uses 1 less bowl of water, and only generates one compost pile at a time; that gives 0 water and 2 soil left over each cycle with 3 wells. Iron use is slightly less at .415. This generates 1424 food (+276 invisible bonus) every 30 minutes.

                  x
               x  b  x
      x  x  x  x     x  x  x  x
      x  s     p     m  l  l  x
      x  p  p  b     m  l  l  x
   x  x  h  h     a     l  l  x  x	
x  b  h  h  h                    b  x
   x  x  d                    x  x	
      x  w  w        t  *  t  x		
      x  c  c  o        r  r  x		
      x  x  x  x     x  x  x  x		
               x  b  x
                  x						
a-adobe oven; b-berry bush; c-carrot field
d-dirt pile;	h-squash field; l-bean field
m-corn field; o-compost pile; p-pond/well; r-food storage basket
s-sheep; t-stew pot; x-blocking tile (tree); *-fire

Edited: corrected water math, forgot to include water for making dough in my calculations.

Last edited by Starknight_One (2018-11-11 16:01:29)

Tarr · 2018-11-11 14:54:42

Yet again we've taught kids the bad habit of living off berries. Either going to start having to rip the things up and plant real crops or eternally suffer from having berries everywhere.

MultiLife · 2018-11-11 21:21:38

Tarr wrote:

Yet again we've taught kids the bad habit of living off berries. Either going to start having to rip the things up and plant real crops or eternally suffer from having berries everywhere.

Yeahh. It's easy to just say "farm berries" to newbies to make them busy. I kinda wish the tutorial would have shown a pie or something but yeah, some responsibility is with us so we must take initiative to lead newbies to other food sources.

Today when you passed away as Eve Tarr, I was left spreading omelettes around (I was Simra or something like that). I visited the berry farm, and oh boy, the newbies were furiously expanding it, leaving no space for bowls or buckets, spreading through the unfinished wooden floors like a leaking river of green, towards the bakery. Hoes broke left and right, the land being devoured by berry bushes, leaving tiles of lone wooden floor, once supposed to act as walls to stop this. I died to Old Age, but at least the bushes were still tended to and bearing berries. Poor stew farm. It never stood a chance. At least a quiet kind lady kept it going, small as it was.

Last edited by MultiLife (2018-11-11 21:25:02)

MultiLife · 2018-11-11 21:35:41

Starknight_One wrote:

Sorry about the premature post.
This is an idea I've been tooling around with. I designed it as sort of a one-man outpost, but it could easily be the basis of a distributed farming system.
Each 30 minutes it can produce:
8 mutton pies
5 pots of stew
3 bowls of popcorn
11 berries and 6 carrots not needed for anything
That's 1451 food points based on OneTech values, not counting the invisible +2 bonus. (Adding that gives another 282 food points for a total of 1733). Water runs on a positive cycle with 4 wells (31 bowls used). Soil is handled by composting; a cycle produces 26 extra soil (22 used out of 48 generated). Each cycle uses .44 iron. You could just use the extra soil and water to pop more berries, if you really needed them, or grow more carrots. You could even skip composting every other cycle and use the straw to make a basket.
Diversifying your pies a bit in the interest of Yum bonus, you can do:
4 mutton pies
3 berry carrot pies
1 loaf bread (unless you can't make bread from one use of dough anymore - make another pie then)
5 pots of stew
3 bowls of popcorn
5 berries and 5 carrots not needed for anything
1 leftover straw
This way uses 1 less bowl of water, and only generates one compost pile at a time; that gives 0 water and 2 soil left over each cycle with 3 wells. Iron use is slightly less at .415. This generates 1424 food (+276 invisible bonus) every 30 minutes.
                  x
               x  b  x
      x  x  x  x     x  x  x  x
      x  s     p     m  l  l  x
      x  p  p  b     m  l  l  x
   x  x  h  h     a     l  l  x  x	
x  b  h  h  h                    b  x
   x  x  d                    x  x	
      x  w  w        t  *  t  x		
      x  c  c  o        r  r  x		
      x  x  x  x     x  x  x  x		
               x  b  x
                  x						
a-adobe oven; b-berry bush; c-carrot field
d-dirt pile;	h-squash field; l-bean field
m-corn field; o-compost pile; p-pond/well; r-food storage basket
s-sheep; t-stew pot; x-blocking tile (tree); *-fire			
Edited: corrected water math, forgot to include water for making dough in my calculations.

Curious. I'll keep an eye out for these, could be a project to do some day, when I feel like I'm up for a new challenge!

pein · 2018-11-11 23:12:24

you need to keep carrot out of pen

Starknight_One · 2018-11-12 01:19:28

pein wrote:

you need to keep carrot out of pen

They're not in the pen, they're in the fortress. The pen is the small enclosure in the upper left corner.

The pen entrances to the main area are to keep random wildlife out.

Or are you talking to someone else?

One Hour One Life Forums

#1 2018-11-10 15:00:46

Berry farms CAN BE TOO BIG - important for new players!

#2 2018-11-10 17:38:15

Re: Berry farms CAN BE TOO BIG - important for new players!

#3 2018-11-10 19:26:02

Re: Berry farms CAN BE TOO BIG - important for new players!

#4 2018-11-10 19:44:56

Re: Berry farms CAN BE TOO BIG - important for new players!

#5 2018-11-10 20:59:37

Re: Berry farms CAN BE TOO BIG - important for new players!

#6 2018-11-10 21:20:24

Re: Berry farms CAN BE TOO BIG - important for new players!

#7 2018-11-10 21:24:11

Re: Berry farms CAN BE TOO BIG - important for new players!

#8 2018-11-10 21:53:39

Re: Berry farms CAN BE TOO BIG - important for new players!

#9 2018-11-10 21:55:56

Re: Berry farms CAN BE TOO BIG - important for new players!

#10 2018-11-10 21:57:02

Re: Berry farms CAN BE TOO BIG - important for new players!

#11 2018-11-10 22:27:50

Re: Berry farms CAN BE TOO BIG - important for new players!

#12 2018-11-10 23:26:42

Re: Berry farms CAN BE TOO BIG - important for new players!

#13 2018-11-10 23:53:50

Re: Berry farms CAN BE TOO BIG - important for new players!

#14 2018-11-11 10:09:34

Re: Berry farms CAN BE TOO BIG - important for new players!

#15 2018-11-11 10:23:59

Re: Berry farms CAN BE TOO BIG - important for new players!

#16 2018-11-11 10:26:01

Re: Berry farms CAN BE TOO BIG - important for new players!

#17 2018-11-11 10:46:00

Re: Berry farms CAN BE TOO BIG - important for new players!

#18 2018-11-11 12:01:28

Re: Berry farms CAN BE TOO BIG - important for new players!

#19 2018-11-11 14:10:41

Re: Berry farms CAN BE TOO BIG - important for new players!

#20 2018-11-11 14:16:39

Re: Berry farms CAN BE TOO BIG - important for new players!

#21 2018-11-11 14:54:42

Re: Berry farms CAN BE TOO BIG - important for new players!

#22 2018-11-11 21:21:38

Re: Berry farms CAN BE TOO BIG - important for new players!

#23 2018-11-11 21:35:41

Re: Berry farms CAN BE TOO BIG - important for new players!

#24 2018-11-11 23:12:24

Re: Berry farms CAN BE TOO BIG - important for new players!

#25 2018-11-12 01:19:28

Re: Berry farms CAN BE TOO BIG - important for new players!

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