Eve Spawn is Still Broken

forman · 2021-05-17 15:22:25

I don't know what the data of the situation is or what's the fix.

The fact is, I've moved multiple eves west which is the direction they need to be going.

Every day various families are ending up on roughly a 10k jump back east.

It is impossible to get culture specific goods (latex, sulfur, oil) and going back and forth this distance is literally the worst.

I don't know how or why it's not working the way it was but at this point the game is unplayable.

JonySky · 2021-05-17 16:56:49

forman wrote:

I don't know what the data of the situation is or what's the fix.
The fact is, I've moved multiple eves west which is the direction they need to be going.
Every day various families are ending up on roughly a 10k jump back east.
It is impossible to get culture specific goods (latex, sulfur, oil) and going back and forth this distance is literally the worst.
I don't know how or why it's not working the way it was but at this point the game is unplayable.

Gremlynn · 2021-05-18 00:48:37

Eve spawns have always been a bit of a mess. Race restrictions have made it a lot worse because its a requirement that we get resources from each other. It was way better when families could be 10k away from each other and it didnt matter. It was fun seeing a culture begin to develop in individual towns and families instead of just "they're the jungle fam".

Its too easy to navigate now and the inter family system is just boring. Like you mentioned, having to walk thousands of tiles just to get some materials so you can make yellow dye or something is stupid. You end up spending a life or two just walking to get stuff and another life to do what you actually wanted to do. Language barrier makes this whole process even more annoying.

I hope Jason realizes that race restrictions have not added anything good to this game. They're not fun, they're not interesting, they dont make lives more unique. All they do is promote a lot of walking and wasted time to actually play the game. It turns families into a utility instead of an actually family or culture.

Last edited by Gremlynn (2021-05-18 00:50:36)

Spoonwood · 2021-05-18 18:41:30

Gremlynn wrote:

Eve spawns have always been a bit of a mess. Race restrictions have made it a lot worse because its a requirement that we get resources from each other. It was way better when families could be 10k away from each other and it didnt matter. It was fun seeing a culture begin to develop in individual towns and families instead of just "they're the jungle fam".
Its too easy to navigate now and the inter family system is just boring. Like you mentioned, having to walk thousands of tiles just to get some materials so you can make yellow dye or something is stupid. You end up spending a life or two just walking to get stuff and another life to do what you actually wanted to do. Language barrier makes this whole process even more annoying.
I hope Jason realizes that race restrictions have not added anything good to this game. They're not fun, they're not interesting, they dont make lives more unique. All they do is promote a lot of walking and wasted time to actually play the game. It turns families into a utility instead of an actually family or culture.

I think I agree with everything here. The game would be better with them just removed completely.

x_Raiema_x · 2021-05-18 22:37:11

I personally like race restrictions, it gives me a chance to gather resources no one else can. What I don't like is that all the families are separate. Bring back megacities, let us live in unity.

-Ian- · 2021-05-18 23:14:39

x_Raiema_x wrote:

I personally like race restrictions, it gives me a chance to gather resources no one else can. What I don't like is that all the families are separate. Bring back megacities, let us live in unity.

Technically megacities can exist, they just have to span all four homeland biome bands

Gremlynn · 2021-05-19 01:46:55

Race restrictions really only serve a couple purposes. First they force interactions between families when they wouldnt likely happen otherwise. Second they make resources seems more valuable considering the lengths one must go to get then. Third they limit how fast a family can progress through the tech tree.

The interactions are hollow and false. They are annoying and waste everyone's time. Traveling for 5-10 minutes just to chase people around with a pencil and paper asking for what you need is literally the stupidest thing ever. If you like this i seriously question your sanity.

Resource value is good, but that happens naturally. Surplus wealth is rare either way. And when it is it promotes raiding from other fams. Something that commonly happened in the past. Those kind of interactions were not hollow. They promoted the use of fortress cities and families being prepared to defend themselves from raiders and outside threats. This is one of the biggest parts of civilization and was removed from the game due to race restrictions.

But lastly, the main reason i think they were introduced. Was to slow down tech advancement. Families were able to hit late game a day or two after a server reset. This removed a lot of the different stages of a civilization after a certain time period. Every town was advanced, all of them had engines and oil. There wasn't much to do beyond farming and cooking. So i do understand the desired to space this out. But i do think there are more interesting ways to do that.

Spoonwood · 2021-05-19 16:21:01

Gremlynn wrote:

But lastly, the main reason i think they were introduced. Was to slow down tech advancement. Families were able to hit late game a day or two after a server reset.

I played after the last two arc restarts. Things are little to no different technology wise. They still reach end game technology fast. Oil pump is achieved in less than 10 hours I'd say, easy even with the current average family size, which isn't anything compared to if we had maximum server population. A truck can get made easily enough soon after that, if someone wants to make one and knows how. I made an engine at Perons http://lineage.onehouronelife.com/serve … id=7204717 who died out before their charcoal newcomen pump ran dry, and it got used, I think, for an oil pump. Probs made an engine and I used that engine to make a truck in Whislers during last arc restart, and they were one of the families that started on restart: http://lineage.onehouronelife.com/serve … id=7204909 One might not see a radio early, but that's more because players that can make them, often will do something else.

Now, it's not all that strange that things progress that fast. People can finish off things others start and that saves a lot of time. Also, water resources run out quickly. And even when they didn't, players that wanted to, could still rush technology if they chose to do so. There's no time gating. There's no generational gating. Neither of which would work for water at least, since if you literally couldn't access more water, your descendants and possibly yourself might not make it to old age.

No good game is inherently unfair to it's players. And this game already has major problems with it's level of unfairness, and some of that just comes from it being a multiplayer game of parenting, though how bad of a problem baby abandonment is, varies some. It would be even more unfair if players just couldn't make it to old age, because they couldn't make or get more water when needed.

And if you read the "Everything runs out" post, it says:

"Essentially, there should be no steady state, where you finally break free from the survival struggle and can be fat, dumb, and happy for the rest of your life. The garden of Eden can never be returned to. No living off the fat of the land. The land is too thin for that.

On a larger scale, the same is true for a village. Maybe it can start to feel like a steady state for a few generations, but in reality, those generations are making a grave mistake by living that way. If they're not developing the next level of survival technology, they are dooming their village in the future."

https://onehouronelife.com/forums/viewtopic.php?id=63

Seems pretty straightforward to me from that to deduce that players *will* rush technology then. After all, why play a game if you're doing it for reasons of "doom"? Games are supposed to be enjoyable, and most people aren't masochists, or sadists. Or have low levels of such. So, from that notion, there's every reason for players to rush technology.

What is strange though is Jason also said this:

jasonrohrer wrote:

But that thought experiment involves survival too, which is one of the things that would slow us down. We have to eat, and keep warm, and fend off natural threats, and have babies to keep the civilization going. Obviously, we wouldn't get back to iPhones in one generation. It would take hundreds of years. Might it take thousands of years? Might it take longer the second time around than the first? Maybe the knowledge doesn't help. Maybe it was all about bootstrapping infrastructure. Might we never get there the second time around? Maybe we'd lose the thread. Maybe all the "right place at the right time" moments wouldn't play out the same way. Maybe retreading the same ground is impossible.
All that said, so far, this game has been a pretty lousy embodiment of that thought experiment. The answer is that people get back to diesel engines in a generation or two!
In recent times, I've been throwing in a few monkey wrenches that make failure more likely. But I've always been somewhat disappointed that the progress up through 3000+ craftable items didn't take longer

https://onehouronelife.com/forums/viewt … 896#p81896

Yeah, so the part above from the everything runs out post implies that progress up through however many "craftable objects" the game has gets encouraged. So, players getting through the game's objects quickly *fits* with the notions for it, and could have gotten anticipated. But disappointment after it's gotten encouraged by deliberate mechanics of the game? Yeah, weird.

Gremlynn · 2021-05-20 06:25:52

So yea its basically just a roadblock that was supposed to be interesting and make the game more dynamic. Then ended up failing on all accounts. As far as i see it, Jason's ideals and goals for this game far outweigh its capabilities. You cant just wish and intend for something to happen and just have it end up that way. This game isnt that complicated, its not dynamic. The only things that present any element of diversity is the people who play this game. Which has nothing to do with jason, even if he tried to claim it as such. Chat rooms serve basically the same function and there is no nuance with their design. Tech tree is linear, experiences are repeated, there is only one direction, only one way to do things. You have three choices when playing this game, do the thing, do nothing, or make it difficult for others to do the thing. The games hard dont get me wrong. But thats not because its even that complicated. Its because players are given no resources to learn the game and are just thrown in with nothing. Then anyone with some degree of knowledge is expected to teach them the game. Though i do find this form of interaction interesting. Its also wildly disrespectful and patronizing of jason to treat his player base like that and act like its "enlightened" or some bullshit. Its just being lazy and treating your audience like insects in your terrarium. And acting like you're a genius when you drop in a frog you caught by the lake to eat us, only to have it die and rotting in a matter of days or weeks.

There is so much wrong with this game. So many thing Jason refuses to see or acknowledge as problems because of his own pride and hubris. He has to presume hes right, and that we're all just idiots. Otherwise he will be forced to change, challenge himself, or admit he was wrong. Things i still hope he's capable of but doubt he is.

Last edited by Gremlynn (2021-05-20 06:26:24)

Dodge · 2021-05-20 08:41:51

Gremlynn wrote:

...

Yeah you pretty much summed it up, this game has a lot of potential but one of it's major issues is the dev himself who got a very interesting original idea but cant implement it properly and who thinks he's good at finding solutions to issues but end up making it worse, he does acknowledge it somewhat when he says that designing this game is difficult and he's right there's no other games like this one so every or most aspects of it have to be made from scratch but he's also delusionnal when he says that the current mechanics are "in a good place".

It could be so much more interesting but currently the game is just terribly boring and repetitive, a lot of dumb decisions made by a lack of common sense that make the game uninteresting, forcing players to go a specific direction instead of different possibilities.

The biome restriction update wasn't added to slow down progression in the tech tree, it was implemented so that different civilisations would have a reason to interact with each other the infamous idea of "trade", but this is certainly the worst way this idea could have been made into the game, not only it's not interesting because it just force players to dump stuff to each other without any deeper interaction happenning, but it also restricts gameplay to a routine where you HAVE to do this, there's no other alternatives, no other solutions, nothing that you have to figure out with other members of your family and discuss with other civilisations, just the same repeated action that you have to do over again.

But in Jason's book since you have to find another family when you run out of rubber it counts as an "interesting interaction problem solving scenario", so it's "in a good place".

Very disapointing that he decided to test the idea of non infinite map by making it a small rift box which obviously ended up in a disaster, if he tested it properly it would have been very different and we wouldnt have half of the shitty mechanics we have right now since they are there to artificially create what a realistic map naturally does.

By now we could have oceans, boats, biomes in different corners of the world, plane travelling that make sense, airports, outposts, long term goals instead of a never ending meaningless cycle, but i guess he made his mind, infinite map it is...

Caiaphus Tarwater · 2021-05-20 18:51:56

It seems to me that most families don't live for thirty hours, and very few families make it to sixty hours, but it is NOT for lack of resources.

The best thing I can do for my family is to loot dead towns; I can deliver ten lifetimes worth of materials and labor in one lifetime by looting. But then the family dies anyway.

So the next day I loot my old family home for my new family. Sometimes it feels like I'm just moving stuff around... sometimes the very same stuff.

I felt like a hero when I brought in two horse carts AND a ton of food and tools and steel AND a delivery truck in one lifetime (my first time driving a truck), but within three generations after my death my new family was dead.

It feels a little futile to build and die and start again, and then repeat... to be a hero for lost causes.

I'm not sure what the solutions may be.

Last edited by Caiaphus Tarwater (2021-05-20 18:53:26)

Gremlynn · 2021-05-20 21:30:08

Dodge wrote:

Very disapointing that he decided to test the idea of non infinite map by making it a small rift box which obviously ended up in a disaster, if he tested it properly it would have been very different and we wouldnt have half of the shitty mechanics we have right now since they are there to artificially create what a realistic map naturally does.

I agree with this 100%. The rift was way too small to be viable. That said when resources started to run low you saw some very interesting behavior from families. Some would steal, some would hoard. People made fortresses on the corners or the map that would house several different families in the lifetime of the arc. People would get run out of their home by invaders and have to raise their family in the woods until things calmed down. Some families lived together in peace and protected each other while others were constant rivals and warred with each other throughout the arc. There was a group of people who wanted to keep the arc going and others who wanted to end it. Not just for the sake of destruction but for the sake of a fresh start, which eventually everyone was ready for.

But the box was way too small. I wish he had experimented with different sizes before just fully removing it. I enjoyed the last fam standing aspect of it. I always had a family i was more attached to each arc and worked hard to keep them around. But then came eve restrictions, memescore, tool slots, race restrictions, homeland mechanics, biome banding, and more. All things i felt were implemented to serve as a boundary, just like the rift. But did a much worse job than a literal wall could do. In the scheme of things banding brought back a lot of aspects of the rift. Except it does it wy worse. Instead of being trapped in a small box, we're trapped in an infinite tube and propelled along it indefinitely. I would take the box over that any day.

One Hour One Life Forums

#1 2021-05-17 15:22:25

Eve Spawn is Still Broken

#2 2021-05-17 16:56:49

Re: Eve Spawn is Still Broken

#3 2021-05-18 00:48:37

Re: Eve Spawn is Still Broken

#4 2021-05-18 18:41:30

Re: Eve Spawn is Still Broken

#5 2021-05-18 22:37:11

Re: Eve Spawn is Still Broken

#6 2021-05-18 23:14:39

Re: Eve Spawn is Still Broken

#7 2021-05-19 01:46:55

Re: Eve Spawn is Still Broken

#8 2021-05-19 16:21:01

Re: Eve Spawn is Still Broken

#9 2021-05-20 06:25:52

Re: Eve Spawn is Still Broken

#10 2021-05-20 08:41:51

Re: Eve Spawn is Still Broken

#11 2021-05-20 18:51:56

Re: Eve Spawn is Still Broken

#12 2021-05-20 21:30:08

Re: Eve Spawn is Still Broken

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