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#1 Re: Main Forum » The lack of storage problem! » 2018-03-19 22:42:02

I like a lot of ideas in this thread, but i also think it is important to consider the nature of this game. The game is about problem solving on societal level. I think the problem of clutter— at some point— is something we need to figure out together, as a community. I frequently feel like too often people rush to adding new features as the solution. If that was always the solution, then we would be playing a sandbox game like Minecraft or what have you. This isn’t that.

So while sometimes, problems are feature problems or oversights or game design problems. Sometime problems are community challenges that we are tasked with figuring out ourselves. I think this thread walks the line. I am not giving a definitive judgement one way or another about how we should approach problems, just saying it’s something to keep in mind here and in all the others threads.

Also kudos to Jason for being so responsive to th community! Good job, I love the game!

#2 Re: Main Forum » Ideal Farm Layout for Adv. Civilization (edit: *Ideal Carrot Farm) » 2018-03-19 22:34:22

This post address all of the concerns brought about for this design, and some of the other designs brought up in the forum. All of which were considered in the design of this farm.

1.

Matok wrote:

Are the seed tiles for seed storage or seed growing?

The seed tiles are for growing seeds, therefore, compost should be delivered to a box on the west side of the farm. Delivery of soil is not necessary but ideal, one could simply fetch it themselves but hopefully there is a compsoter to to this.

The seed ratio used is (4 carrot: 1 seed), this nets additional seed every so often which can be stored.

2.

InSpace wrote:

Compact space isn't a good idea

This farm was designed to be compact intentionally, while at the same time leaving exactly enough space to get things done. The reason compact IS good, is because time is a resource and traveling an uneccisary distance is a waste of resources. This is related to the next concern.

3.

Joriom wrote:

6 basket for 12 plots?
I think you got the ratios wrong.
For efficient collection you need 5 baskets for 3 plots.

There are pictured 8 baskets to the North. This is not because 8 baskets is enough for 12 plots, but rather 8 baskets fit inside 2 box’s. Therefore, up to 8 empty baskets can be stored in these boxes. Full baskets should be placed in the carts outside. One would also imagine empty baskets in the carts outside.

The goal is not to leave baskets of carrots lying around, but quickly store/disseminate them to the village. Empty baskets should be taken to the farm, freeing up space all around the village (they usually get too messy and are littered with empty/half full baskets)

The reason for this is efficiency of space and time. Putting enough baskets for each plot right next to that plot is extremely inefficient space-wise. Not to mention that many carrots are eaten by farmers during collection meaning plenty of baskets have only 2 or 1 carrot by the time the farming is over— farthing wasting space. By using only 8 baskets and storing the full ones, and then placing empty ones. You can intentionally fill each basket to 3 and not waste space or time.

4.

Concerning wells and cisterns:

Dry wells are unavoidable all long as there are players who cannot properly use them. It is 100% likely they will be emptied in your lifetime.  Not to mention inexperienced players will use your farm design when you aren’t there to explain it. That was taken into consideration for this design— usabillity by new players. The job of water fetcher, at this point in time, is something I see a necessary for a high output farm. Cisterns are hard to mess up and inform someone new who find the farm exactly what needs to happen. Carts with water skins also make this apparent.

5.

Concerning one giant farm:

This farm was not designed as a farm once and stop. It was designed to be a continuous output. The reason for this is because farms that stop lead to farmers wondering off and never coming back. As pointed out, naked people consume too many carrots to reasonable assume people will stay fed (a reason I personally am an advocate of pie marketing).

Additionally, giant farms tend to not have dedicated seed, often move about the map, grow holes, become disorganized and cluttered. Baskets everywhere, epoeple everywhere, people eating seeds. Bad idea.



Not every aspect of this design is perfect under every potential lens this game can be evaluated. Instead a wholistic approach was taken, given consideration to: usability, space, time, hard numbers, work flow, and difficulty to destroy. I think thats what our villages need in order to be successful.
I think different rules apply when you are farming on your custom server where only you or experienced players work, even if the hard numbers stay the same.

#3 Main Forum » Ideal Farm Layout for Adv. Civilization (edit: *Ideal Carrot Farm) » 2018-03-18 14:40:50

Jadajen
Replies: 16

 farm




This is a conceptual layout for an advance society. I should be able to be efficiently run by one or two (one adult one kid) people given that there is someone running water and someone delivering compost (kids who grew up/ young adults).

All boxes should have empty baskets if possible.

The boxes on the left is for delivering compost and strong extra seed. The boxes on the top for storing full baskets of carrots. The carts on the bottom are for delivering water. The carts on the top for taking carrots to storage.

All fences should not have wooden bars, but simply the posts allowing for free passage.

Walls are adobe.

The advantages of this farm are in high efficiency, intuitive layout, compact space. It can also be duplicated depending on where water sources are. Also noobs cannot destroy the layout because it is protected by walls. It is easy to start up when an eve comes across it.

#4 Re: Main Forum » Shallow Wells and Deep Wells The Truth. EDIT » 2018-03-16 17:03:46

SantaFray wrote:
Potjeh wrote:

Which we won't, because wells are strictly inferior to ponds so making them is a waste of time, resources and space. They need to regenerate faster than ponds to be worth considering. But even if they did regenerate faster tending the well would be very inefficient use of time, by the time you move all that measuring shit you could've brought back more water from ponds with a pouch filled cart.

I feel that you're forgetting something very important here, ponds are natural resources while wells are a player created water source. Yes, ponds are superior in reliability and safety. However, a civilization can only grow so big relying on natural resources. Often a village will consume all of the water reserves and out grow the the water respawn rate. Player made water sources are essential to supporting a growing populations soil and carrot production rate. Wells are not intended to replace ponds but rather to complement them in water generation. Creating wells might not be important for establishing a civilization, but it will likely be a very important tech in civilization progression.


I still think cisterns are the better bet if you can. Then make enough water bags for a cart and collect the water from further locations --> storing this in the cistern(s)

This is an adults job to cart the water bags, but it really takes a load off the main ponds, giving them a chance to respond. Also cisterns located near the farm allow kids and farmers to water more efficiently, thus creating a better farm.

#5 Re: Main Forum » Stop overdeveloping the land! » 2018-03-16 17:00:28

DeadEye wrote:
Goldra wrote:

Pies aren't worth it because of use of water--you can make them in moderation, at best, though you should be ensuring that nobody's screwing over the farms before you try to pursue baking. Carrots, meanwhile, are more efficient with water, and so are DEFINITELY more useful.

You're wrong about pies, and I'm going to approximate here as I don't have the exact stats but from playing a ton I can tell you this much.

1 unit of water on a carrot field fills around 2 1/2 adults.

1 unit of water in pies (with only rabbit) fills a good chunk of an adult's bar, I'd take the average there and probably call it 8 adults fed for 1 unit of water.

Therefore 2 units of water (1 field, 1 dough) fills 12 adults with rabbit/carrot pie and the 2 leftover carrots fill 1 adult for 13.

2 units on only a carrot field fills around 5 adults.

So rabbit/carrot pie is probably not as efficient as just using leftover rabbits alone. Just as carrot pie isn't nearly as efficient as only rabbit pie as you're using a good amount of water and time, but I can't speak to the exact value of only carrot pie..I think it's about 1/2 of an adult bar. If you have an abundance of carrot it's more efficient (water wise) to make rabbit/carrot pie.

TL: DR - Rabbit pie fills around 3x the amount of people for the same amount of water used by a single carrot field.


I am pretty sure both of these are wrong. You might want to read this thread about the topic: https://onehouronelife.com/forums/viewtopic.php?id=476  (read the whole thing or else you might get the wrong impression)

Carrot-Rabbit is the most efficient food out there right now. And pies are a MUST for a civ to advance. A lot of the late game right now is collecting resources from further off/ making buildings/ getting sheep/ building roads/ connecting colonies/ hunting rabbits/ collecting large carts of water to store in cistern/ hunting for milkweed or wheat or what-have-you.

ALL of these tasks require a backpack with pies in them. Farmers, Children, Elderly, and maybe bakers do not need pies. They have access to carrots. Smiths maybe need pies because their job is time sensitive.

Some key points on the thread i linked:

>water is key variable in determining population that can be supported

>rabbit-carrot pie is most water efficient. Although it is part of an intensive process. Carrot farm is second
note:wheat farm is straw for compost, pies more specially compact (four in one)

>compost is a must for all civs to function (learn how to do it)

>water is a commodity, so is time and freedom to work.

>a diversity of food supply is best, rather than mooned supply. e.g. carrot farm and bakery and eating wild goose berries if you are traveling. All of these support the colony. Nearby wild goose berries have a serious impact on a colonies survival! They can help a starving one recover and a flourishing one compost and more.

>WEAR!!!MAKE!!!SHARE!!!CLOTH!!! Cloths are arguably the key indicator if a farm will survive. If you see a bunch of nudes and no one is making cloths/farming milkweed/ getting rabbits. You will fail. End of story, there isn't enough resources in a compact area to support a colony large enough to develop, unless players are wearing cloths.

>My person advice: If you find an abandoned village that has no hope of ever functioning because a lack of resources, recycle it. OR micro farm it. Turn it into a tailor station, or compost station, or bakery, etc. this can take a burden of main colony, but be sure to specialize and bring your products back.

#6 Re: Main Forum » [Sustainability] Modern Survival v63 (Volume 1): FARMING, UPDATED » 2018-03-16 16:47:53

Pleas read the entire thread and don't come to any false conclusions. If you gave advice and was later corrected and learned better, please add an edit to your post so other players don't also have the wrong idea.

#7 Re: Main Forum » New Ideas and improvments for the game » 2018-03-16 16:34:50

jakeinmn wrote:
evan.woods wrote:
PurpleEarth wrote:

- Same race kids : white moms have only white children, black moms only have black children, unless father (from sex idea above) is opposite race

Weird. This would increase your enjoyment of the game?

It would. Think about it.

That way you would see brothers and sisters of the same hair color. When you stumble into a village, and everyones different, you don't see that immersion of ancestrial unity. Whos whom's kid. You just get a mixing pot of all the character models.

If theres a family tree, there doesn't seem to be anything supporting any genetic makeup.

Its easier to identify mom because she looks like you. This would be further compounded in usefulness if there were much more than 8 character models.

(Problematic) Race mechanics wouldn't increase your enjoyment of the game, based on what you said-- Being able to identify heritage would.

This would easily be accomplished if last names were a thing. Then there would be like 10 John Farmer and Jane Farmer's and maybe John Smith or two etc. Eve's could pick a last name when they spawn in.

I think spawning as different race/sex is more fun and inclusive. I also think allowing such an obvious way to racially discriminate is asking for trouble, especially if you want to implement sex... don't 'fix' (make worse) what isn't broken.

#8 Re: Main Forum » How to use wells without them drying up » 2018-03-15 21:42:30

True...

...this method works if you have the time and resources, there seems to be a more intuitive way. Just put wells next to ponds and use the ponds as a measuring tool. Since water in them response at the same rate, only take from well if there is extra water in the pond.

1) always put wells directly next to ponds

2) get water from pond

3) if pond runs dry --> Replace water into pond. Do not collect from well. WAIT.
    if pond still has water --> collect from well, it's safe.

(note: I know collecting from pond and replacing if it runs dry resets the pond timer, so the will well technically refills sooner. BUT better safe than sorry, don't test your luck)
Advice: Just use cisterns and avoid wells if you can.

By using the pond, wells basically become a second pond.
Idk if the problem with wells is a bug, or oversight, or as intended, but right now this is the best we can do.

#9 Re: Main Forum » Tips and info (with images) » 2018-03-14 16:32:54

For the timer's, do items in baskets still disappear? Like if I put seeds in a basket, do they disappear as normal or do they stay indefinitely?

#10 Main Forum » Having Items Sealed within Buildings » 2018-03-13 21:56:21

Jadajen
Replies: 4

In my time playing OHOL, I have come across some structures which others players have built and tried my own at creating one. These can range from a few walls to a completely enclosed building.

When I find, for instance, an adobe room with one missing wall as an entrance I am excited to use the space as a shop or storage or what-have-you. However, the fear then kicks in that if I store objects, or start working in this space. Some troll will come along and seal the entrance shut. by building a wall

I understand that wooden doors can and should be built and this would solve the problem. But is my fear justified? Sometimes you don't have the time, resources, or knowledge to build a wooden door, but adobe is a pretty low tec.

Has anyone experienced being shut in, or seeing piles of valuable goods locked away? What is your advice and experience? Is it worth it to store/work inside of these structure?

I feel like having to worry about trolls kills the fun and novelty of finding/building a building. I know people have been stabbed by trolls and thats no fun, but I see that as a part of a potential PvP dynamic within the game (but this can be debated if its properly supported with the current game mechanics)---But having things locked away behind an impenetrable room seems outside all essence of the game.

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