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#26 2019-09-12 03:35:21

DestinyCall
Member
Registered: 2018-12-08
Posts: 1,261

Re: Food stats are live

I will support air drops if we also get rocket launchers, so we can shoot down the helicopter.

That is the funnest part.

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#27 2019-09-12 06:38:49

BladeWoods
Member
Registered: 2018-08-11
Posts: 415

Re: Food stats are live

It would be interesting to see how domestic gooseberries vs wild gooseberries compare, but I'm guessing that isn't possible since they're considered the same food.

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#28 2019-09-12 07:40:56

DestinyCall
Member
Registered: 2018-12-08
Posts: 1,261

Re: Food stats are live

Yeah, it is too bad gooseberries are not like carrots, with a wild type.   

I'm guessing a good chunk of it is wild berries, but the domestic berry probably wins.  A lot of players survive on berries for at least half their life.   Even experienced players will eat domestic berries  while very young or very old.   And some less experienced players don't know what half of the foods look like, so they would starve without a good berry patch.

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#29 2019-09-12 12:25:40

Booklat1
Member
Registered: 2018-07-21
Posts: 933

Re: Food stats are live

Does Jason have means of calculating the avrrage wildberries per map? I know it was possible with the previous biome generation ( I don't really know if the size of grasslands is always the same in the new system too)

If Jason (or any of us) can, then we already have at least a maximum amount of wildberries per hour which we could subtract from the total eaten to get a "minimum value for eaten domestic berries". This minimum amount of domestic berries plus berries in a bowl should give a slightly better estimate on how many berries are we actually planting and eating ( though also heavily being biased on the wildberry consumption side, maybe too much even)


But still, that such a huge chunk of our diet depends on extremely basic foods is a flaw in the game to me. It gives very little incentive for yum and shows just how much this game allows for the slackers and berry munchers to thrive. Villages should die if people ate bad foods all the time.

I hate berries, they break so much that's good in the game. Wanna start milk production? "Cool, bro, but ill still grab some berries right off the bush, no tools no cooking needed"
Berries don't even reward us with much except being cheap on tool use, and they're a waste of water as a food. And yet, half our diet is based on them, maybe more. I'll translate whatever's graph to food calories instead of bites and check for myself.

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#30 2019-09-12 12:34:07

miskas
Member
From: Greece
Registered: 2018-03-24
Posts: 142

Re: Food stats are live

Here is a sample of food analysis based on resource consumption
http://prntscr.com/p572j8

Up till now
Berries are the best raw farmed food in term of resource efficiency.
they are the most efficient in all 3 categories: Water, soil, iron
But They even surpass cooked mutton and bread. They only lose to Stew and mutton pie.
I will continue the spreadsheet for other food sources too.

Last edited by miskas (2019-09-12 12:43:55)

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#31 2019-09-12 14:43:21

DestinyCall
Member
Registered: 2018-12-08
Posts: 1,261

Re: Food stats are live

Wild gooseberry wins any comparison.

But if you are looking for the best processed food, it is whole milk.   Unfortunately, getting milk production off the ground takes a lomg time due to the high start-up costs and few people seem willing to act as milkmaids when the buckets run empty.

Meat pies are still the best choice for any village as a good staple food, with a berry patch as a dedicated "food station" for people who do not understand food efficiency and milk/stew/turkey/saurkraut/potatoes for resource-efficient variety to help the yummers.

There is no reason to mass-produce tomatoes, onions, peppers, or mangoes.    Pork is also yum food, so don't bother domesticating a pig.  Just kill wild pigs and gather meat for small batches of pork tacos and carnitas.   A single mango tree or two is more than adequate.   Any more than that is just an unnecessary drain on the water supply. 

Great foods that should be readily available in an established town:

Meat pies (rabbit/mutton)
Rabbit/carrot pie
Whole milk
Skim milk
Three sisters stew
Turkey broth
Slice of turkey
Slice of bread
Buttered bread
Cooked mutton
Cooked rabbit
Popcorn
Bowl of gooseberry
Gooseberry
Tortilla chips

Okay foods that you can find or make yourself if you are yumming over x10:

Baked potato
Frenchfries
Saurkraut
Onion
Tomato
Bowl of carnitas
Pork tacos
Carrot pie
Banana
Cactus fruit
Cooked goose
Mango slice
Omlettes
Bean burritos
Ice cream

Bad foods you should actively avoid eating more than once in your life:

Carrot
Green beans
Shucked ear of corn
French fries with ketchup
Tortilla chips with salsa
Any pie containing BERRIES
Non-renewable wild foods (if there are wild berries nearby)
Mushroom

Last edited by DestinyCall (2019-09-13 03:52:19)

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#32 2019-09-12 15:20:00

miskas
Member
From: Greece
Registered: 2018-03-24
Posts: 142

Re: Food stats are live

Sorry But carnitas are the 2nd most efficient food on my end, surpassed only by milk.
http://prntscr.com/p59vlm

They consume only 1 corn to produce 48 units of food
Their problem is the vast amount of storage/space needed to produce them in quantity.

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#33 2019-09-12 15:27:36

DestinyCall
Member
Registered: 2018-12-08
Posts: 1,261

Re: Food stats are live

Hence why they are only okay. 

You can make carnitas if you want to yum efficiently, but I consider them a poor candidate for mass production.   They are too space and bowl hungry.   I forgot to put omlettes on that list, but they suffer from the same problem.   Really efficient food ... crappy choice for feeding a whole village.

Plus, if you are growing corn for food, why stop at pork when you could just do milk?   You will be so glad that you did.  It is so much better and provides three yum opportunities.   You just need to mass-produce buckets, which are very useful for an advanced village anyways.   

Farming milkweed is a much better use for your time, instead of raising pigs.  Just be sure to do it outside of town so you can utilize wild soil/water.

Last edited by DestinyCall (2019-09-12 15:35:02)

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#34 2019-09-12 15:46:48

Booklat1
Member
Registered: 2018-07-21
Posts: 933

Re: Food stats are live

The cheapness of mutton pies comes from the fact you're always feeding lambs when optimally composting and the compost pile itself leaves threshed wheat behind.  Rabbit pies are cheap because rabbit is a free addition to threshed wheat that would otherwise decay.


I think everyone agrees that berries are nothing but cheap though, right? So why is ir we can survive by relying so much on them? 35 food per tile isn't much, both resourcewise (excludinh iron), storagewise and timewise.


So why is it that throught the history of this game we barelly move past the berries?

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#35 2019-09-12 16:26:43

DestinyCall
Member
Registered: 2018-12-08
Posts: 1,261

Re: Food stats are live

Berries actually are not JUST cheap.  They are stationary, highly visible, immediately edible, and required in every village due to the compost cycle.   They also leave behind obvious signs when they are depleted that help to signal that the food supply/compost supply/water supply is running low or being neglected.   There are various solid game-play reasons why the berry patch is so central to every village.   

It's not just about laziness.   It is about survival.   As a village, we cannot survive for the long-haul if we do not provide for the new players and inexperienced players who are in great danger of starving through out their lives.   That's why clothing is so important.  But it is also why the berry patch is necessary.   Ideally, you are teaching your kids where the bakery is located, but if they don't know how to bake pies, a well-stocked bakery full of ingredients is a barren death-zone for a starving toddler.     A stew station is only useful if you can locate an empty bowl.   A bucket of milk has the same problem.   Turkey and bread and mangoes can't be accessed unless someone is available to cut them first. 

Also, keep in mind that many players do not use any kind of zoom mod to facilitate navigating around a large village.   The berry patch takes up a large amount of real estate, but due to that large footprint, it is almost impossible to miss it.  If I'm born into an unfamiliar village without zoom, it might take me a while to find the bakery and even longer to locate a bucket filled with milk or a crockpot filled with stew located somewhere in a busy village.   But I can probably find the berry patch in 30 seconds.  Easy to find, easy to use, and very reliable.     In a decent village there is ALWAYS easy, relatively cheap food available in the berry patch.   The same cannot be said for the bakery or the stew station or the dairy station (if the village even has one). 

If someone bakes up some carnitas or a bunch of omelettes, they will be available for a while, but once they are gone, no one is going to replace them.  They leave behind a bunch of empty bowls or plates and those bowls/plates get grabbed and used to do other things.   If someone makes a lot of stew, that stew station will remain in one spot for a while, but unless the village has a surplus of bowls, it can be hard to eat crockpot food, because finding an empty bowl is often a struggle.    And unfortunately, when all the crockpots are empty, you will need to wait for a while until someone takes the initiative and resumes stew production.   Lots of villages are full of empty, useless crockpots, or half-filled crockpots.   That is usually an easy fix ... but if you are brand new to the game, an empty crockpot isn't food and you can't make it into food in time to save yourself by following the in-game crafting tips. 

Bottom line ... if you are playing on a low-pop server, you can get away with using wild berries to feed your sheep and never make a berry patch.   But if you are playing on bigserver, the berry patch is an essential part of any village.   Don't hate the berries ... they are sweet and nutritious.

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#36 2019-09-12 16:31:50

Saolin
Member
Registered: 2019-05-22
Posts: 174

Re: Food stats are live

I partially agree, Booklat. I think part of it is that new players will tend to eat a lot of berries. I know when I started it made up most of my diet, it is the most readily available and most obvious food source. Also I think it's important to take into account that the pie chart shows individual food items consumed, so if a person is filling themself up, it will take multiple berries, as opposed to one bite of pie. Additionally, berries tend to be the most common food to give a baby that needs to be fed due to the low number of pips that need to be filled.

Anyway those are some factors. I still think people consume too many berries, and should yum chain more.  A lot of food items that are considered 'bad' become great if you can maintain one yum chain through your entire life.

Last edited by Saolin (2019-09-12 16:37:08)

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#37 2019-09-12 17:19:09

DestinyCall
Member
Registered: 2018-12-08
Posts: 1,261

Re: Food stats are live

Saolin wrote:

A lot of food items that are considered 'bad' become great if you can maintain one yum chain through your entire life.

This is actually a common misconception among yum-enthusiasts.    But really, the worst foods are still the worst foods, even with yum.   

Because there is a hard cap on how many times you can eat in sixty minutes.   If you are wearing a decent amount of clothing and not intentionally standing around in tundra, you can chain your yum up into the twenties if you are careful.  Not must higher than that.    But there's over forty unique foods in the game ... which means there is no WAY you need to be eating a shucked ear of corn for its yum value, when there are so many better options readily available in the average village.   

Eating crappy foods is just lazy yumming.   You should still eat good, resource-efficient foods and avoid the worst foods, like berry pies and green beans, since they are still worse than better unique foods that would give you the same yum bonus.

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#38 2019-09-12 17:37:43

Booklat1
Member
Registered: 2018-07-21
Posts: 933

Re: Food stats are live

DestinyCall wrote:

immediately edible,

YES YES ABSOLUTELY YES

This entire paragraph (the whole text but specially this) is right. It's probably the best accesment of how berries currently work that i've seen.


So let me rephraze. Why does this game have options which produce thousands of food per minute when its enough to grow berries at a steady pace of 35 food per tile every half an hour (coreect me if im wrong here, i dont remember very well their regrowtg rate)?

This is what i'm really talking about. Berries should be cheap to make but amount to very little food compared to other heavy pip foods. Except the amount of pips those foods produce is so astronomically high and berries are quite sufficiently enough for less labour that it never even matters. Why get a cow if you don't need to turn corn and water into thousands of pips?

And when we consider this one phrase I quoted, it gets obvious that property will only ever matter if every berry patch or bush is guatded/fenced. Otherwise literally anyone can get sufficiently good food from just a few bites.


I'll always eat a berry+berry bowl in the game, but I don't think the results we see in these graphs reflect a game in which securing food production is a challenge.

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#39 2019-09-12 17:43:38

Booklat1
Member
Registered: 2018-07-21
Posts: 933

Re: Food stats are live

Btw, can we stop this discussion in this post? I think one post for just that could be made.

I only brought it up because of the bug I found while counting total food calories in the food stats page tbh, I have very little hopes of berries being adjusted at this point.

Last edited by Booklat1 (2019-09-12 17:44:20)

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#40 2019-09-12 18:48:07

Saolin
Member
Registered: 2019-05-22
Posts: 174

Re: Food stats are live

DestinyCall wrote:
Saolin wrote:

A lot of food items that are considered 'bad' become great if you can maintain one yum chain through your entire life.

This is actually a common misconception among yum-enthusiasts.    But really, the worst foods are still the worst foods, even with yum.   

Because there is a hard cap on how many times you can eat in sixty minutes.   If you are wearing a decent amount of clothing and not intentionally standing around in tundra, you can chain your yum up into the twenties if you are careful.  Not must higher than that.    But there's over forty unique foods in the game ... which means there is no WAY you need to be eating a shucked ear of corn for its yum value, when there are so many better options readily available in the average village.   

Eating crappy foods is just lazy yumming.   You should still eat good, resource-efficient foods and avoid the worst foods, like berry pies and green beans, since they are still worse than better unique foods that would give you the same yum bonus.

Yes the worst foods are still the worst foods, but a 14 pip green bean or shucked corn is more efficient than resetting your yum chain with a bowl of stew. There aren't usually even close to all food options available in most villages, at least not without considerable processing time that would result in a reset chain in the meantime. A berry rabbit pie may be a terrible food item, but when it continues the chain and gives you effectively, say 32 pips worth of food, it becomes pretty nice, and makes up for the loss of pips from using the resources inefficiently. The reason why it's a terrible food item is you aren't getting enough pips for the resources expended compared to other options, but if a rabbit pie is worth only 14 to you and resets your chain, while a berry rabbit pie would be worth 32, that makes up for the discrepancy in efficiency when comparing the foods at a baseline level that results in the berry rabbit pie being deemed inefficient in the first place. Ideally, yeah you'll use the most efficient items, but if you're working it could be argued that the time saved quickly grabbing an ear of corn is more valuable than spending that time running around looking for a more efficient item.

Where I think yumming would be a mistake is if you can only get to say 6-7x before resetting, then eating an ear of corn is a mistake compared to mostly ignoring yum and choosing the most efficient options.  Another issue is the overproduction of inefficient foods when most players won't negate the loss in value with a long yum chain. That one bite of berry rabbit pie I take might be efficient enough to justify it for me, but the food item is still bad when a player comes and takes a bite from it without regard for yum chain. So that is worth keeping in mind when considering what yum options to prepare.

In theory you're right that the most efficient options should be chosen first, but that's only perfect in an ideal situation where every food option was just sitting there in the same location. Is it better to spend 8 years running around looking for a more efficient option than some of the weakest ones if those weaker ones are readily available? I would argue that it's probably not.

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#41 2019-09-12 19:40:19

Booklat1
Member
Registered: 2018-07-21
Posts: 933

Re: Food stats are live

No, this is exactly the misconception destiny was talking about and there have been countless threads in which we demonstrate it's always better to, for example, restart a chain and drink milk than eat a carrot for yum


Because whenever you a eat a single carrot for yum you leave 4 others that need to be yummed at also high values for the whole crop cost to be worth it.


That's what destiny is saying, make the right foods and you'll never even get to the point where eating raw foods would have a big bonus. You don't need to eat 20+ foods ever.

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#42 2019-09-12 19:47:56

Booklat1
Member
Registered: 2018-07-21
Posts: 933

Re: Food stats are live

In this post i've compared the food crop by crop even including extremely high yums. Milk is OP but eating a corn in a city with cows is just downright lazy.

https://onehouronelife.com/forums/viewt … 723#p48723

Last edited by Booklat1 (2019-09-12 20:07:56)

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#43 2019-09-12 20:06:04

DestinyCall
Member
Registered: 2018-12-08
Posts: 1,261

Re: Food stats are live

Sounds like we are on the same page regarding food efficiency and yum.   

My main point is if you have three foods in front of you and they are all new foods, you should eat the GOOD food first, not the BAD food, regardless of yum.   Because doesn't just make bad foods better ... it makes ALL foods better, so the good ones are great!  And if you are planning to make some food for the purpose of yumming, it is better to focus your efforts on better foods instead of using the least efficient foods.   Some of the worst foods are also very easy to make, so it is tempting to choose them in a pinch, instead of planning ahead a little and making a baked potato or omelette or bowl of carnitas before you are desperate.

It is not the end of the world if you eat shucked corn to prevent breaking a +15 chain ... but if you are REPEATEDLY eating shucked corn in the same life or every single life, you are doing a bad thing and need to stop.   At low yum, it would be better to let your chain break instead of wasting food to extend it a little bit longer.   That's why I mark the worst foods as "eat only once in a lifetime (or never)".    Since you need a very long chain to justify eating these foods, you should avoid them whenever other options are readily available or possible to produce.   And they should never be mass-produced for general consumption, because most players will consume them in excess, rather than yumming high enough to justify eating a single bite of these foods.

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#44 2019-09-12 20:19:55

DestinyCall
Member
Registered: 2018-12-08
Posts: 1,261

Re: Food stats are live

Booklat1 wrote:

No, this is exactly the misconception destiny was talking about and there have been countless threads in which we demonstrate it's always better to, for example, restart a chain and drink milk than eat a carrot for yum


Because whenever you a eat a single carrot for yum you leave 4 others that need to be yummed at also high values for the whole crop cost to be worth it.


That's what destiny is saying, make the right foods and you'll never even get to the point where eating raw foods would have a big bonus. You don't need to eat 20+ foods ever.

Another common misconception is that it is "wasteful" to feed toddlers and elderly rich foods, like meat pies and milk, because they have shorter hunger bars, so some of the pips are lost.

While it is true that adults gain the most benefit from high pip foods, the reality is that meat pies and milk are SO MUCH BETTER than most low pip options, the baseline resource efficiency makes up for any wasted pips.   You literally CANNOT waste food by eating highly efficient food when you are hungry.   Restoring five pips using a berry or five pips using a meat pie .... it is more wasteful to eat the berry.   Restore four pips using poporn or four pips using whole milk ... WAY more wasteful to eat the popcorn, instead of making the ear of corn into pip-dense milk.   It seems like popcorn or berries would be better for kids ... but no ... you are just wasting more during production, where it is hidden.

If you are trying to cut down on wasteful eating habits, get more people to teach their kids to eat pies immediately and bake lots of meat pies to feed the whole village.  Then plant corn fields, instead of planting more berry bushes and switch to a whole milk diet, if you are working in the village.   It uses a lot less water, iron, and labor.

Last edited by DestinyCall (2019-09-12 20:22:09)

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#45 2019-09-12 21:30:10

Saolin
Member
Registered: 2019-05-22
Posts: 174

Re: Food stats are live

miskas wrote:

Sorry But carnitas are the 2nd most efficient food on my end, surpassed only by milk.
http://prntscr.com/p59vlm

They consume only 1 corn to produce 48 units of food
Their problem is the vast amount of storage/space needed to produce them in quantity.

Given the values you have for berry bushes (starting from the languishing state), shouldn't the values listed next to soil and water also be 1 for both from carrots to squash for consistency of starting point (starting from hardened row, which is analogous to languishing berry bush)?

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#46 2019-09-12 23:45:50

Spoonwood
Member
Registered: 2019-02-06
Posts: 1,191

Re: Food stats are live

DestinyCall wrote:

Plus, if you are growing corn for food, why stop at pork when you could just do milk?

Because the town needs buckets for water and buckets for rubber in order to reach self-sustainability (minus oil wells drying up).  And there's a shortage of milkweed.  I'm not saying such should be the case, but some other considerations might, at least in principle if never in practice, hold back milk production validly since it requires a bucket and other foods don't, while other food type production doesn't similarly get held back validly in some situations.

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#47 2019-09-13 03:31:53

Morti
Member
Registered: 2018-04-06
Posts: 595

Re: Food stats are live

Booklat1 wrote:

...

DestinyCall wrote:

...

Booklat1 wrote:

...

DestinyCall wrote:

...

Boy what a great discussion, and no one complained about me "necroing" a thread?

Nice to know good folks can still find ways to make contributions to the overall body of knowledge.

This is why some of you strangers lurking here, who picked the game up on Steam, should make accounts and throw in your two cents.

It's not over yet.

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#48 2019-09-13 03:44:17

DestinyCall
Member
Registered: 2018-12-08
Posts: 1,261

Re: Food stats are live

Spoonwood wrote:
DestinyCall wrote:

Plus, if you are growing corn for food, why stop at pork when you could just do milk?

Because the town needs buckets for water and buckets for rubber in order to reach self-sustainability (minus oil wells drying up).  And there's a shortage of milkweed.  I'm not saying such should be the case, but some other considerations might, at least in principle if never in practice, hold back milk production validly since it requires a bucket and other foods don't, while other food type production doesn't similarly get held back validly in some situations.


If you have a lot of corn and the bowls to make carnitas, then you would be better off making tortilla chips.   I haven't really messed around with the new foods that much, so I do not know the food math for them as deeply as the older foods, but it looks like tortilla chips are pretty nice food, actually.

They beat carnitas by a wide margin and even compare relatively well against skim milk, which is amazing, all things considered.   

Salsa is still bad of course.   But plain tortilla chips?

I'd eat it.

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#49 2019-09-13 05:19:55

DestinyCall
Member
Registered: 2018-12-08
Posts: 1,261

Re: Food stats are live

Corn is a really amazing food that deserves a lot more attention than it receives.   It is a critical food crop that I think gets over-looked or under-appreciated in a lot of villages.   

For comparison, let's look at Hubbard Squash.   If you grow squash, you can make stew.   In fact, you must grow squash to make stew, but that is the ONLY thing that you can make using squash.   Squash cannot be eaten raw.  It must be processed into three-sisters stew and it is not used in any other applications, food-related or otherwise.  Squash is a uni-tasker.   It does one thing and it does it well.   It makes stew.  And really, that's nothing to scoff at.  I would consider stew to be one of the "critical foods" for sustaining a village.   Making a crock of stew requires three crops (squash, beans, and corn), crockpots, water, hot coals, and a decent amount of processing time.  Yet despite all that, it is a very useful food.  It can be produced without using iron tools and using easy to acquire ingredients.   It is such an important part of the village food supply that when experienced players see rows of squash, beans, and corn, they automatically think "stew crops" and you almost always see these crops grown together in quantities balanced for efficient stew production.   Which makes sense for squash and beans.  They aren't good for much beyond stew.

But what about corn?

Corn is NOT a uni-tasker.  Corn is a swiss-army knife of culinary options.   There are so many ways to use corn it is hard to remember them all.  And all the uses for corn are NOT equal.  In fact, corn has the widest spread from "worst option" to "best option" of any food in the game.    So ... let's talk about what you can do with a hardened row that you decide to plant with a single seed of corn.   That corn seed will grow into one corn plant which provides four ears of corn.   If you shuck an ear of corn it will give you a fresh ear of corn which you can immediately eat.  DO NOT DO THIS!!!!    If you leave the corn alone for a while, it will become a dried ear of corn and an entire world of options will open up.

Firstly, if you use a flint chip on a dried ear of corn, it will give you a corn seed.  This can be repeated to get as many seeds as you need.   Also, a dried ear of corn can be put into a bowl and roasted over a fire to make popcorn.   This significantly increases the food value of the corn and it is a decent early game food.  But with a little more work, you can do a great deal more with a bowl of corn.   Using a flint chip on a bowl with ear of dried corn will get you a bowl of corn kernels.   Now the options really open up, because corn kernels can be fed to three different animals - goose, pig, cow - and it can also be used to make masa dough for tortillas.  Last, but certainly not least, a bowl of corn kernels can be used to make a crock-pot of stew.   

So what should you do with a dried ear of corn?   Let's do a little math ...

Food value (per bite)
.........................
Shucked ear of corn - 5 pips (1 use)
Popcorn - 3 pips (4 uses)
Cooked Goose - 10 pips (2 uses)
Omelette - 19 pips (1 use)
Bowl of carnitas - 12 pips (1 use, 4 pork/pig)
Tortilla chip - 6 pips (5 use, 4 tortillas/masa dough bowl)
Pork taco - 17 pips (1 use, up to 4 tacos/masa dough bowl)
Bowl of Stew - 14 pips (2 uses/bowl, 8 bowls/crockpot)
Skim Milk - 8 (10 bowls/bucket) + butter for bread
Whole Milk - 14 (10 bowls/bucket)


Okay ... so that's the basic information about pip values for these foods, but notice how some foods have many more uses.   This is very important.  To give you an idea of how important this is, let's take a deeper look at raw corn vs popcorn.   If I plant one row of corn, I will get four ears of corn.  If I eat those four ears I will gain 20 pips (5 pips x 4 ears = 20 pips per corn row).   That will fill my bar up one time, if I'm a hungry adult.   But if I let the corn dry and roast it instead, I will get four bowls of popcorn and gain 48 pips, more than doubling the food value of the corn (3 pips x 4 uses x 4 ears = 48 pips per corn row).  That means I could feed myself two and a half times using the same amount of resources and only a little more time/labor investment.

Now, the rest of the things that I can do with corn require more time and more effort ... but they also reward that investment with greater benefits.   If I decide to make carnitas, I can feed a domestic baby pig one bowl of corn kernels to make it grow, then slaughter the pig to get four pieces of meat, then cook the pork in a bowl over hot coals to gain four bowls of carnitas and 192 pips!  (12 pips x 4 pork x 4 ears = 192 pips per corn row).   That's an impressive jump from 48 pips for popcorn or a measly 20 pips for fresh corn.

But what if I make tortillas instead?    To make corn tortillas, you must make masa dough, which is a bit labor intensive.  First you must gather limestone, then heat the limestone to make quicklime, then add two bowls of water to create slack lime, then add a bowl of corn kernels to the slack lime to make limed corn.  Cook the limed corn over hot coals and smash with a rock to form masa dough.   This dough can be placed on a flat rock and smooshed into a corn tortilla using a long shaft.   Then cook the raw tortillas on a flat rock placed on top of hot coals to make a cooked tortilla.  (Be careful!  Don't drop a raw tortilla in the dirt or it will be ruined)  The corn tortillas can then be put on a plate and combined with a bowl of carnitas to make pork tacos ... OR ... they can be put into a bowl and turned into tortilla chips.   To make tortilla chips, you place a corn tortilla into a bowl, then use shears to cut them into chips, then pour the bowl of raw chips into simmering palm oil to get cooked tortilla chips.   

Making carnitas requires more corn consumption (assuming you are making pigs, rather than harvesting wild pork), but the tortilla chips need extra steps to gather the palm oil.  But now that carnitas and tortillas can be eaten separately, there is an opportunity cost associated with combining these two edibles into a single food item.    The basic value gained by making pork tacos is  272 pips  (17 pips x 4 tacos x 4 ears = 272 pips/corn row), but this doesn't take into account the cost of the pork carnitas which are being added to make the pork tacos.   To make 16 tacos, you will need 8 bowls of pork carnitas valued at 96 pips total.   Subtract that cost from the pork tacos and you are left with 176 pips net gain (272 pips - 192 = 176 pips).   It also costs an extra two ears of corn to produce the carnitas.   So a lot of work and ingredients, but not that impressive, considering you could just make plain carnitas for 192 pips and use less corn. 

But even more importantly, you could skip pork all together and just make the chips.    Because tortilla chips produce an impressive number of pips.   Each bowl has five chips and each ear of corn produces four bowls, so you gain a whopping 480 pips! (6 pips x 5 chips x 4 tortillas x 4 ears = 480 pips/ corn row).  There are a lot of steps involved in producing tortilla chips and they take up lots of bowls, but at least they deliver on the pips.   Dipping your chips into salsa increases their individual value from 6 pips up to 10 pips, which is nice, but it isn't enough to offset the extra resource costs for producing salsa, so I do not recommend it.

Lastly, we have milk.   If you take your bowl of corn kernels and feed it to an adult cow, the cow will eventually have a baby.   When the baby splits away from the cow, it will be a "dairy cow" and you can use a bucket on the cow to gain milk.   after being milked, the cow will go dry.   You can feed the cow a bowl of water within a short period of time to gain another bucket of milk.  Or wait until it returns to being a normal cow and fed another ear of corn to start the cycle over again.  Each ear of corn can product one (or more) buckets of whole milk.   If a full bucket of whole milk is left alone too long, it will separate, producing a bowl of cream and a bucket of skim milk.    You can prevent this from happening by removing at least one bowl of whole milk from the bucket before it separates.   If you use your corn to produce whole milk, you gain 560 pips (14 pips x 10 bowls x 4 ears = 560 pips) ... if you let the milk separate to make skim milk, that pip gain drops to 320 pips (8 pips x 10 bowls x 4 ears = 320 pips), but you also gain cream which can be used to produce butter for buttered bread.   The buttered bread doesn't quite make back the lost pips, but it does help ... and it adds more yum options.    Needless to say, whole milk is a pretty amazing food, except that it fills up a bucket, it is fairly complicated to produce, and almost no one remembers to eat it or bothers to produce it in large quantity, even in advanced towns.

I skipped over stew, since the math gets complicated due to multiple ingredients.  Suffice it to say that stew is not a strong as milk, but not as weak as popcorn.  I also ignored goose production - you can feed corn to domestic geese to produce eggs which can either be eaten as omelettes (19 pip x 4 ears = 76) or used to produce more geese for entertainment purposes or food production (10 pips x 2 bites x 4 ears = 80 pips).   As funny as it is to chop the head off a goose, I can't recommend anyone feed a bowl of corn to geese when you could do almost anything else with it.   Wild geese give free eggs and domestic geese are ... well ... let's just say I think a sheep pen should be filled with sheep, not geese. 

One Row of Corn can equal ....

Fresh shucked corn = 20 pips
Popcorn = 48 pips
Omelettes = 76 pips
Cooked goose = 80 pips
Bowl of carnitas = 192 pips
Three Sisters Stew = 224 pips
Pork tacos = 272 pips
Tortilla chips = 480 pips
Skim Milk = 320 pips (+ butter)
Whole Milk = 560 pips

.....

TL:DR .... Please for the love of all that is holy ... stop eating fresh shucked corn!

Last edited by DestinyCall (2019-09-13 05:29:34)

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#50 2019-09-13 06:51:27

FeverDog
Member
Registered: 2018-07-10
Posts: 91

Re: Food stats are live

Thanks Destiny and others for the interesting ideas.  Very helpful to clear up noobish ideas on yum.  I'm definitely going to be playing differently after reading this and the "Yum bonus tutorial" epic battle between Destiny and Spoon.

QUESTION!  If the tomatoes, potatoes and mangos are already made and sitting in a basket or on a plate, am I being wasteful by eating them to fuel my yum chain?  Or is it just wasteful to make those things.  You explained corn very well so I have my answer on that particular vegetable.   I understand it's wasteful to make these things but once they're made the damage is already done and those three things (and maybe others I don't know about) aren't going to be used for anything important, right?

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