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a multiplayer game of parenting and civilization building

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#1 2019-07-11 04:31:05

Dantox
Member
Registered: 2019-04-28
Posts: 62

almost 2 months after the warsword was added.

Time has passed, tweaks, patches and fixes has been dealt regarding the warsword and now i think we have reached a moment where jason considers that no more changing is needed anymore so i guess we could say that the warsword is on its final form.

So, what are your thoughts on the actual warsword?

i personally dont like it.


make bread, no war

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#2 2019-07-11 05:51:46

Morti
Member
Registered: 2018-04-06
Posts: 415

Re: almost 2 months after the warsword was added.

I'd rather we were all one big family, struggling against hunger, working together, the way things were over a year ago.
That was the most enjoyable time of the game's history, for me, and many others.
People are the most valuable things in the game.
I get no satisfaction making anyone's time playing less enjoyable.
That's not why I'm here. It's not why most of us are here.

Knives and bows were one thing, but the sword does not belong.
That said, we'll probably have things like handguns, grenades and planes will drop bombs before we are just sending drones and terminators out to kill people for us, while atomic powered robots and automated flak cannons defend our cities.
Not the direction I would go with a gem like this, but Jason has made it clear, this is not our game, it's his.
I'm afraid it's just going to wind up being another Castle Doctrine, but we'll see.
Or, we'll leave and never know what became of it, remembering the times we cared for each other like we recall our own childhood.

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#3 2019-07-11 07:25:33

JonySky
Member
From: Catalunya
Registered: 2018-05-13
Posts: 338
Website

Re: almost 2 months after the warsword was added.

Morti wrote:

Knives and bows were one thing, but the sword does not belong.
That said, we'll probably have things like handguns, grenades and planes will drop bombs before we are just sending drones and terminators out to kill people for us, while atomic powered robots and automated flak cannons defend our cities.
Not the direction I would go with a gem like this, but Jason has made it clear, this is not our game, it's his.
I'm afraid it's just going to wind up being another Castle Doctrine, but we'll see.
Or, we'll leave and never know what became of it, remembering the times we cared for each other like we recall our own childhood.

Just the description of "a multiplayer game of parenting and civilization building"


A person is smart. People are dumb, it is a scary and dangerous animal.
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#4 2019-07-11 07:30:05

Léonard
Member
Registered: 2019-01-05
Posts: 141

Re: almost 2 months after the warsword was added.

Morti wrote:

That said, we'll probably have things like handguns, grenades and planes will drop bombs before we are just sending drones and terminators out to kill people for us, while atomic powered robots and automated flak cannons defend our cities.

I legitimately believe Jason will quit before that can ever happen.
Seriously. Just think about it for a second.
With the way the game is moving and based on the previous updates, do you honestly think we'll ever build that atomic powered robot?
No chance.

Morti wrote:

we'll leave and never know what became of it

Yes, it will be forgotten and left in the dust.
And quickly at that.


Walls of text are illegal now..

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#5 2019-07-11 07:57:33

Tarr
Member
Registered: 2018-03-31
Posts: 1,482

Re: almost 2 months after the warsword was added.

Swords are bad, have been bad, and will always be bad. The most unfortunate part of the whole swords thing is we learned Jason isn't against making things terrible to push other terrible mechanics. It sort of broke a level of trust that honestly I don't think the community can ever really get over with him. Is X broken by accident or did Jason purposely do X because of Y? Just this last update the first thing that came to my mind was did Jason purposely not include steel rods in the scrap update because he doesn't want swords to be easily recycled OR did he accidentally overlook them like a few other items? He also purposely leaves stuff in rough shape because he personally feels its interesting.

Should we have a working and sane curse system? No, because apparently making it easy for the user to actually use is uninteresting to him in the first place.

jasonrohrer wrote:

Again, I have no interest in solving every single little problem that players encounter in this game.  Rough edges are fine.  "But what if" is fine.  That gives the game texture.  "But what if someone has a really long name?"  Then you can't curse them.  INTERESTING

Is that interesting? I think it's terrible design. Butter knife swords were terrible design, having a defunct curse system is terrible design, and even fences were terribly designed hence why no one uses them for anything other than a cheap animal pen. War swords and all this other stuff really shows why the mobile version of the game is probably going to end up being the better version in the long run. Sure, the controls aren't as smooth and some things stick out because of the clashing styles but you know what? They get requested content, they're over there working to make DOGS useful, and even made pigs useful. You are Hope focuses on making the game better while Jason focuses on making his game worse.

We're at the point where people think bells have always been death traps for random players. You know the thing that is supposed to bring people together to one area on the server? It's thought that these have always just been something you ring to kill strangers and that's honestly sad. I fear the day we get guns added to ohol as I'm sure they'll just be ranged butter knives with auto-aim made solely to shoot children and other heinous activities.


Days peppers/onions/tomatoes left unfixed: 103

Do your part and remind Jason to fix these damn vegetables.

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#6 2019-07-11 09:12:37

Potjeh
Member
Registered: 2018-03-08
Posts: 408

Re: almost 2 months after the warsword was added.

Yeah this game turning from coop to PvP is basically why I quit. Playing Mordhau instead, because it's PvP is actually good.

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#7 2019-07-11 10:23:22

Léonard
Member
Registered: 2019-01-05
Posts: 141

Re: almost 2 months after the warsword was added.

Tarr wrote:

He also purposely leaves stuff in rough shape because he personally feels its interesting.

Should we have a working and sane curse system? No, because apparently making it easy for the user to actually use is uninteresting to him in the first place.

jasonrohrer wrote:

Again, I have no interest in solving every single little problem that players encounter in this game.  Rough edges are fine.  "But what if" is fine.  That gives the game texture.  "But what if someone has a really long name?"  Then you can't curse them.  INTERESTING

I still cannot find that post at all even after Hum posted a screenshot of it.
It sounds 100% like something Jason himself would say, but at the same time, come on, let's admit it, that's the most retarded thing I have heard about the game yet.

Seriously.
Anyone remember what Bob said?

Bob 101 wrote:

I feel like Jason is in a state of denial atm.


Anytime anyone brings up any flaws Jason almost always throws a paragraph at them.


Anytime someone brings up lack of decent content he brings up "Ohhh, Theirs over 2000 Objokes in the game".

community: hey, x seems broken, can you fix x please?
Jason: mmmh it's interesting and a rich dynamic that x is broken.

I'm sorry if I sound like the negative and angry guy or if I offended someone.
But seriously that's just retarded.


Walls of text are illegal now..

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#8 2019-07-11 10:30:38

MultiLife
Member
Registered: 2018-07-24
Posts: 807

Re: almost 2 months after the warsword was added.

I don’t like war swords. They are just giving extra power to griefers who will always mindlessly kill everyone they can. And they are safe from cursing while they are at it.
Because magic and stream sniping.

I wonder if it’s a rich dynamic that you can juggle out a bloodied sword and stack hits on a player.

Last edited by MultiLife (2019-07-11 10:32:45)


Notable lives (Male): Happy, Erwin Callister, Knight Peace, Roman Rodocker, Bon Doolittle, Terry Plant, Danger Winter, Crayton Ide, Tim Quint, Jebediah (Tarr), Awesome (Elliff), Rocky, Tim West
Notable lives (Female): Elisa Mango, Aaban Qin, Whitaker August, Lucrecia August, Poppy Worth, Kitana Spoon, Linda II, Eagan Hawk III, Darcy North, Rosealie (Quint), Jess Lucky, Lilith (Unkle)

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#9 2019-07-11 11:16:35

testo
Member
Registered: 2019-05-12
Posts: 161

Re: almost 2 months after the warsword was added.

I agree with Tarr in the trust issue. There are several times I´ve thought to myself that maybe Jason doesn´t really care that much about the future of the game because he already cashed in. There is no incentive on making the game really good, simply because the effort/benefit ratio isn´t worth it. As long as the game keeps selling a few copies he will keep working on it, but there is no big deal if the player base diminish to extinction. I won´t complain about that, but it doesn´t meet the expectations I had when I first saw that amazing promotional video.

I´m also gonna be a real dick and just throw what is for me the elephant in the room here, because 99% of the things not working or poorly designed in the game can be traced to one single  fact:

Jason works alone.

I am not talking about the technical side of programming or who knows how many years of experience are required to understand the engine. It is about the gameplay, game design and overall thought process of the game. You see, I´m not tech sawy by any means. I can barely read some pseudocode in latex or java. But I am an educator. I work with people, and I understand one capital missing point in OHOL, wich is: A social game will never be succesful with one single person holding the strings. It just can´t, because every interaction, every decition made will only have one vision imposed over the players. That may work for a platformer, shooter, rpg and virtually any kind of game but a multiplayer social game.

I want to be cristal clear about this. I really believe he reads a lot of the suggestions here in the forums and has good advice from other people. This is about parts in the design he won´t agree. This is about the creative process that comes as a result from a team: people working togheter with different and sometimes opposing views, with equal power and influence over the final result. As it stands he has no way of getting into some aspects in the development process, because he holds all the power in what is and what is not made out of it. I don´t blame him, we are all blind to our own device.

I believe the best idea he could have is to hire a team and work with other people. To hear and discuss on equal footing with people having a different "vision of the game". But that won´t happen. That is why I believe OHOL is doomed to a sad and playerbase-bleeding end. And that is why I barely play a few hours a month nowdays.


JASON PLEASE FIX TOMATO ONION PEPPER IM SCREAMING IN AGONY!

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#10 2019-07-11 13:26:08

AmberA
Member
Registered: 2019-07-02
Posts: 23

Re: almost 2 months after the warsword was added.

I'm a player who started playing within the last month so war swords have been a normal part of gameplay to me and I don't see a problem with having them in the game. I think maybe the implementation of fighting and cursing features could be adjusted but they are not awful. I'd like to see more defense options for towns such as binoculars and lookout towers then people can help out as guards to protect the town and give early warning against invaitors with weapons.

The game is still very fun. Most games I've played I'm unaffected by warswords, if I'm killed it is usually  by a knife or because the medic process is too complicated for many players.

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#11 2019-07-11 13:49:07

Tarr
Member
Registered: 2018-03-31
Posts: 1,482

Re: almost 2 months after the warsword was added.

AmberA wrote:

I'm a player who started playing within the last month so war swords have been a normal part of gameplay to me and I don't see a problem with having them in the game. I think maybe the implementation of fighting and cursing features could be adjusted but they are not awful. I'd like to see more defense options for towns such as binoculars and lookout towers then people can help out as guards to protect the town and give early warning against invaitors with weapons.

The game is still very fun. Most games I've played I'm unaffected by warswords, if I'm killed it is usually  by a knife or because the medic process is too complicated for many players.

Then you come from a completely different dimension than we do. Jason basically turned lineages against each other for the sole purpose of "interesting" and "rich" dynamics to be added to late game. You used to never genocide a full lineage because you were afraid of muh magic swords. Hell, you used to be able to curse anyone in game which kept the asshats much more in line. You also weren't all the same three models within a town as skin tone mutation occurred 10% of the time on a birth so lineages would be diverse groups of people instead of every male being ginger or the single black male in darkest tone.

Pre-sword ohol was a much more friendly place where different lineages came together to take care of town or towns that were all connected. Post sword ohol is basically just randoms going around murdering people because ecks dee right clicking is fun. Swords basically exist to cull towns to prevent people from getting bored sitting around in one place. Combine this with the wilderness reclamation time being dropped from one week to eight hours you are constantly rebuilding towns due to either girls killing themselves OR players walking around with swords.

This game wasn't always a murder cesspit (though griefing has always been a problem) and Jason only made it worse by giving the trolls a shiny new toy. Ohol was definitely a better game when you could pull off grand scale building instead of being pigeonholed into playing the only way Jason sees fit.

Last edited by Tarr (2019-07-11 14:19:10)


Days peppers/onions/tomatoes left unfixed: 103

Do your part and remind Jason to fix these damn vegetables.

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#12 2019-07-11 14:52:05

Kilian
Member
Registered: 2019-02-03
Posts: 25

Re: almost 2 months after the warsword was added.

I agree with Tarr that the addition of the sword wasn't really making this game better. It was an interesting idea but in the long run will become very annoying because it does not allow for multi-family-towns: It takes only one griefer with a sword to start killing the other family or even start a civil war. Sounds maybe unbelievable at first, but after the first stab, a few stab-willing people loose their control and easily join in. But then, it's not a problem of the game only but also of some of the players.
Combine this with the fast decay and the problem gets severe:
A few months ago, the towns could get found again which meant that the family was not way too important but that towns and their development were central. But Jason did not like that and therefore reduced reclamation time. And so we loose our precious, over days grown cities to raids/wars/civil wars that we are unable to prevent, especially because we are not able to destroy swords.

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#13 2019-07-11 15:18:11

JonySky
Member
From: Catalunya
Registered: 2018-05-13
Posts: 338
Website

Re: almost 2 months after the warsword was added.

AmberA wrote:

I'm a player who started playing within the last month so war swords have been a normal part of gameplay to me and I don't see a problem with having them in the game. I think maybe the implementation of fighting and cursing features could be adjusted but they are not awful. I'd like to see more defense options for towns such as binoculars and lookout towers then people can help out as guards to protect the town and give early warning against invaitors with weapons.

The game is still very fun. Most games I've played I'm unaffected by warswords, if I'm killed it is usually  by a knife or because the medic process is too complicated for many players.

Have you ever wondered what is the use of having the new mechanics of languages, when we have war swords only for foreigners?

seriously do not you see 2 mechanics that cancel each other because they are contrary to each other?

When the new language mechanics was implemented I thought ... wow! this is great!
but this mechanics together with the war swords so unbalanced towards foreigners converts the new mechanics of the useless language


A person is smart. People are dumb, it is a scary and dangerous animal.
http://onehouronelife.com/reflector/ser … ion=report
http://publicdata.onehouronelife.com/publicLifeLogData/
You are... Megan, Max, Morgan, Masha or Misha? u are my kid!

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#14 2019-07-11 16:02:58

Villas
Member
Registered: 2019-03-16
Posts: 60

Re: almost 2 months after the warsword was added.

Villas wrote:

I just spawned in a huge town and after that a lot eves spawned as well. I could count nine of them. I've lived in this town about three times this week, but it was dead when we spawned there. We started a fire and boom. Baby boom, more than twelve babies at once, I spent my life naming and feeding babies, because no one was doing that, it was a chaos. Even after getting old, I kept feeding and naming them, I could see some great grandchildren because the town has a lot of food and everyone survived. The population there when I died was about thirty-forty people. Let's see how much families survive there, I love multi family towns.

https://imgur.com/w5Lx7oi.jpg
https://imgur.com/jJvJgPq.jpg

If it had happened nowadays, it would be such a blood bath, no one working because  they were either afraid of death or trying to kill other families before other families kill them.

I'm not complaining about war swords. I'm complaining about the fact that we can't coexist, we can't trade, there is no incentive in keeping another family alive, because 1 person can literally kill everyone if everyone is distracted working.

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#15 2019-07-11 18:49:40

Kilian
Member
Registered: 2019-02-03
Posts: 25

Re: almost 2 months after the warsword was added.

Villas wrote:
Villas wrote:

I just spawned in a huge town and after that a lot eves spawned as well. I could count nine of them. I've lived in this town about three times this week, but it was dead when we spawned there. We started a fire and boom. Baby boom, more than twelve babies at once, I spent my life naming and feeding babies, because no one was doing that, it was a chaos. Even after getting old, I kept feeding and naming them, I could see some great grandchildren because the town has a lot of food and everyone survived. The population there when I died was about thirty-forty people. Let's see how much families survive there, I love multi family towns.

https://imgur.com/w5Lx7oi.jpg
https://imgur.com/jJvJgPq.jpg

If it had happened nowadays, it would be such a blood bath, no one working because  they were either afraid of death or trying to kill other families before other families kill them.

I'm not complaining about war swords. I'm complaining about the fact that we can't coexist, we can't trade, there is no incentive in keeping another family alive, because 1 person can literally kill everyone if everyone is distracted working.

+1
Exactly this!

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#16 2019-07-11 20:56:04

Saolin
Member
Registered: 2019-05-22
Posts: 44

Re: almost 2 months after the warsword was added.

It's hard for me to say since I started a little over a week before swords were added. The killing frenzies have decreased I think since they were first implemented. The language update is kinda moot though because of the sword. I think it would have been better to do the language update a few weeks before the sword at least to allow people to get used to overcoming hurdles to cooperation one at a time.

I agree that it would be a good idea for Jason to hire a team, in particular it would be good to have some voices in the room that are familiar with sociology, history, and other areas that are very relevant to the game, as he doesn't seem to have a background in these areas which is a handicap in being able to judge what effects changes will have, or what needs to be added to facilitate certain things (like trade and property) that Jason seems to desire to have in the game.

Some of this information is available on this forum already, but I think in this situation it would be better for Jason to pick those voices himself so he can choose people he respects and trusts and not feel like he's losing power and control, or bending to every whim of the community.

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#17 2019-07-12 01:09:35

BladeWoods
Member
Registered: 2018-08-11
Posts: 321

Re: almost 2 months after the warsword was added.

I think the strength of swords may still need to be lowered, particularly with using a sword then dropping it to pick up another and immediately getting to attack again, but I don't mind them existing, but they did push the game towards a different type of game. A type of game that a lot of existing players don't like, but it may appeal more now to other kinds of players.

I think we need some kind of marriage update, some way for families to choose to not go to war and join together instead. Jason has mentioned marriage before, but I don't know what his plans are.


But to the people that hate conflict, if you see one of your family members kill someone from a different family, why don't you go ahead and curse them?

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#18 2019-07-12 08:17:38

Morti
Member
Registered: 2018-04-06
Posts: 415

Re: almost 2 months after the warsword was added.

Just want to be clear about my position on the swords, on anything added to the game.

I want Jason to add anything and everything he feels belongs to the game.
It's not the addition of the sword to the game that I don't want.
It's the creation and use of the sword, in game, I do not want.

A year ago it was the knife. I've gathered iron many times, and if I had my way, that iron would never be used to make a knife. Sometimes I'd even rush to turn it into everything but the knife, just to decrease the chances that one of my children might kill another, on purpose or by accident. The accidents were horrible, really horrible. People trying to pass knives to each other, stabbing the person they meant to give it to, it'd put a stone in my chest. It was bad enough that we had to die at 60, it was like a little piece of losing a real family member, or a real friend, at least, for me.

So I turned all the iron I could into everything but knives.

Can't kill the sheep? Oh well, at least there are 5 hoes and 4 shovels, you can dig wells, soil pits and plant crops for the next 60 years.

I understand though, that the knife is a tool. I'm okay with them personally.
What I am not okay with is the video game industry as a whole and it's attitude towards murder.
Yes, this is what happens when we combined 3 lives for 1 quarter, with bullet simulation.

When there aren't any dragons left to defeat, the people turn their swords and spells onto each other. That's what I don't like.
That we are being lead to believe this is all okay because it's simulation.
That this is somehow needed to satisfy some natural tendency inside us to want to kill each other.

We also don't have a natural instinct to shit in toilets, should we all just be shitting in our yards to avoid paying taxes for water?
Then parents wouldn't have to worry about potty training their kids anymore, it could save them so much time, they could watch more Young and Restless and Jeopardy on TV, they could play more World of Warcraft if they didn't have to teach their kids anything. No. That would be fucking stupid. So why are we inadvertently teaching them to kill each other? Why are we putting them in the mindset that the people half the world is the bad guys and that you should find the best guns in the game, while you can, before you have to kill them?

"It's just fun!" you screech
"It's just a game." you whine

I'm sorry, but I want more from people. And I know we are capable of more, if we as a whole are taught better. If the money is put towards better. If the time is spent towards better.

Some of you didn't fall too deeply into the trap. Maybe it was your mother, that bought a family pet and encouraged you to care for it. Maybe your father said some things to you at a young age, that echo in your head to this day. Maybe it was a teacher, a book, or a movie, maybe it was a song. Whatever the reason, you're not out there insulting people after you've shot them in a murder simulator. You're not interested in the games who's main focus is killing the other people. Maybe you play puzzle games, maybe you enjoy Stardew Valley or Oxygen Not Included. Maybe you play Tetris or one of those music games like osu! maybe Sim City or Theme Hospital are more your jam.

What am I talking about? WHO AM I TALKING TO!? You are only here because of JASON, because of ONE GAME, ONE HOUR ONE LIFE.

This is why good people FUCKING HATE YOU JASON, because you are trying to turn us against each other now, because YOU are being INFECTED by games like Rust. You HAVE BEEN infected by games like that throughout your life. You tried making a bunch of quirky games and got next to no attention because of them, now you make a game that attracts people, and what do you want to do with those people? Get them to kill each other!? Why can't you see that is wrong? We came here to get away from that shit.

STOP encouraging people to kill my families.
Stop encouraging people to kill MY family.

--

Here is what I want to hear from you in one of your next speeches.

"... and despite me trying to encourage the players to kill each others, you know what happened? They just stopped making the weapons. They realized that if none of them were threatening each other, that everyone's lives would be better and that their civilizations could blossom into so much more. They didn't put their time and resources towards war and defense. They took care of each other once they put themselves in the other families shoes, an hour later."

You're not going to get that from Rust and you're certainly not going to get it from Call of Duty or Counterstrike, or League of Legends or Defense of the Ancients. Shit, you wouldn't get it from World of Warcraft if the writers at Blizzard didn't try to force hints of cooperation between the Alliance and the Horde, in every expansion, all the way back since Ahn Qiraj in vanilla.

--

But here is the thing, the real thing, that we need to take away from the last 50 years.

There are no demons.
There are no dragons.
There are no bad guys.
There are no bosses (in this context).

There is life and there is the rest of the universe.
If life had it's way, we'd never die. We'd maintain homeostasis, until the end of time.
Our rate of reproduction would match the rate that we are transforming the rest of the non-living universe, into life.
However, we've gotten a little lazy.
Just a little... about a billion years ago, and we began to turn on each other.
When taking too much from an area, turned into stealing from others.
When cannibalizing the dead, became killing the living.
When war became mandatory for the highest assurance.

We turned on each other and we haven't turned back.

Murder games have been a way of validating that mindset, that old world mindset that had already known a circumnavigated globe, that had no where to turn, but on itself.

But something even more important happened, just 50 years ago.
Something has rekindled life's desire to spread out, and to transform new material into life.
We managed to get life to the Moon.

--

There is so much here, on Earth, invested in death; invested in taking life from others, to give to yourself. It's in everything, from religion to labor. It's echoed in most games, as it is in every economy. We have gotten so used to it, people don't just think it's normal, they think that's it's the ONLY thing.

Well, it's not.

It has never been the only thing. There has always been life transforming the non-living parts of the universe, into resources the rest of us require, at this stage, just to exist. They've been working tirelessly, especially since the Cambrian, but, what does the stress of the Cambrian explosion, compare to the stress of humanity? We're taking so much. We've changed, so much.

--

Games are such an amazing way to get ideas out into the world. Ideas that can either help to maintain other ideas; to reinforce them, or, to change them. Here you have a game, with a central message of care. We cannot live, born as a child, unless someone, takes care of us first. Someone has to birth us. Someone has to feed us. At least, that's usually how it goes.

Then we can build up from there.

(Forgive me - life's little distractions. Where was I?)

Let's get to the sword. I just wanted to say we should be able to make anything, I don't mind if you, Jason, add guns or bombs or T-1000's to the game. Add wormholes and stargates, things that take 100 of every resource and 1,000 lives to build, it doesn't matter. You're not the one making the sword in game though, we are.

So, this message is not for you Jason, it's for me, and it's for everyone else. You don't like the swords, don't make them.
Don't hold them.
Don't give them to others.
Don't have anything to do with them.

Is it not obvious that that is the conclusion a sane person would want us to come to?
Or has Jason, have you, just fallen for the mindset I alluded to earlier in this post?
Does everyone need a nuclear bomb because one person has one?
Does everyone need chemical weapons?
Does everyone need a plague?

We decide where to draw lines.

In the United States that line is somewhere between the knife and the atomic bomb.
There are arguments to be made it's even in chemical and biological weapons, but we can all agree that people have nuclear weapons at least? Or are their conspiracies that Nagasaki and Hiroshima were fake? Maybe I just started one... oh shit!

Anyway, it's not your fault Jason.
It's not Tarr's fault for killing all those people.
It's not any president's fault, that we lead any war.

It's just an idea. It's a part of what we are taught we need to be, that we have to eat a little of each other - that we have to allow others, to eat us. We were not born primary producers, and we never will be, primary producers.

Except for Craig Venter

220px-Craigventer2.jpg

But I kid.

Just play however you want. Have fun with whatever you like.
Make whatever game you want.

We'll adapt.
or die.

It's not the same thing, but, you get it.

We always get it.
We always will.

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#19 2019-07-12 12:21:59

ollj
Member
Registered: 2019-06-15
Posts: 267

Re: almost 2 months after the warsword was added.

Craig Venter and Norman Borlaug on an isolated island witrh one knife per person, which of them would survive longer?

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#20 2019-07-12 13:30:35

Morti
Member
Registered: 2018-04-06
Posts: 415

Re: almost 2 months after the warsword was added.

ollj wrote:

Craig Venter and Norman Borlaug on an isolated island witrh one knife per person, which of them would survive longer?

Norman passed away September 12, 2009.
He made great contributions to agricultural policies around the world, though.

I think if they were both in their prime, and had the knowledge they've accumulated throughout their entire lives, they'd both live to ripe old ages. Craig would figure out a way to create organisms that could survive on the conditions of the island and Norman would grow from them enough food to feed them both. The metal from the knives would be used for tools, in Craig's lab, and in Norman's garden.

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#21 2019-07-12 14:03:23

Anandamide
Member
Registered: 2018-06-05
Posts: 140

Re: almost 2 months after the warsword was added.

testo wrote:

I agree with Tarr in the trust issue. There are several times I´ve thought to myself that maybe Jason doesn´t really care that much about the future of the game because he already cashed in. There is no incentive on making the game really good, simply because the effort/benefit ratio isn´t worth it. As long as the game keeps selling a few copies he will keep working on it, but there is no big deal if the player base diminish to extinction. I won´t complain about that, but it doesn´t meet the expectations I had when I first saw that amazing promotional video.

I´m also gonna be a real dick and just throw what is for me the elephant in the room here, because 99% of the things not working or poorly designed in the game can be traced to one single  fact:

Jason works alone.

I am not talking about the technical side of programming or who knows how many years of experience are required to understand the engine. It is about the gameplay, game design and overall thought process of the game. You see, I´m not tech sawy by any means. I can barely read some pseudocode in latex or java. But I am an educator. I work with people, and I understand one capital missing point in OHOL, wich is: A social game will never be succesful with one single person holding the strings. It just can´t, because every interaction, every decition made will only have one vision imposed over the players. That may work for a platformer, shooter, rpg and virtually any kind of game but a multiplayer social game.

I want to be cristal clear about this. I really believe he reads a lot of the suggestions here in the forums and has good advice from other people. This is about parts in the design he won´t agree. This is about the creative process that comes as a result from a team: people working togheter with different and sometimes opposing views, with equal power and influence over the final result. As it stands he has no way of getting into some aspects in the development process, because he holds all the power in what is and what is not made out of it. I don´t blame him, we are all blind to our own device.

I believe the best idea he could have is to hire a team and work with other people. To hear and discuss on equal footing with people having a different "vision of the game". But that won´t happen. That is why I believe OHOL is doomed to a sad and playerbase-bleeding end. And that is why I barely play a few hours a month nowdays.

Even though im against the war sword and "rough edges", I dont think he needs the creative input of others; he does need a team or even just another person that can handle the business/marketing/customer service side so that he could completely focus on the design and implementation. If he even further got someone to come on board to help with bug fixes for a few hours a week, then we would be in a good spot. We go through cycles of new content, weeks of bug fixes, Jason going to some conference/talk/interview whatever, potentially a fight or scandal and then we get new content again. He seems to want to try new mechanics, but because he has to do everything, something that probably in his head was more experimental ends up just sticking. Then he gets pressured to make more content so instead of reworking that system he puts a new system in on top which causes the previous recent content updates harder to extricate in the future. The reason im not gonna call for him to bring in additional creative partners is also because he did work on this game for a few years before it got released so we dont know what content he has planned but unimplemented. Who knows, maybe that future content will cause some of the things we dont like now to make sense, but we are only ever gonna get there if he brings people in so he can focus on making it happen, because if we dont get there soon this game might not make it. The daily players is pretty low right now and he seems to be freezing/fudging the hours/lives count on the homepage because it doesn't change for days at a time.  Its funny, Jason is the exact opposite of the vision he has for his game, he doesn't like to work with others and rather than be part of some kind of cooperation that is more productive than the sum of his parts, he would rather have less just so he can say he did it all.

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#22 2019-07-12 22:26:46

Kinrany
Member
Registered: 2018-01-22
Posts: 238

Re: almost 2 months after the warsword was added.

Maybe the problem with war swords is that right now it's cheaper for a lineage to kill any other lineage on sight. It should be more viable to invest in being prepared for war but peacefully interacting with those who also want peace.

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#23 2019-07-13 11:37:22

CatX
Member
Registered: 2019-02-11
Posts: 261

Re: almost 2 months after the warsword was added.

"Year after year, the gaming industry seems to fall back on one underlying theme: Kill or be killed."

"The fact that 82% of the games featured at E3 [2017] are combat focused, illustrates a pretty serious lack of imagination."

"I make a distinction between combat and violence, because in combat the player is the one doing the violence."

"When combat is the game's central focus, it tends to celebrate that violence rather than frame it as a tragic last resort."

"[For many] Combat has now become synonymous with gameplay itself. The president of Nintendo America echoed this sentiment at E3 this year [2017]:

'The game is fun. The game is a battle. If it's not fun, why bother? If it's not a battle, where is the fun?'

That's an extremely narrow definition of what constitutes a game, and frankly a narrower definition of fun.

I'd argue that this obsession with violent gaming mechanics is holding the gaming industry back."

"[... ... ...] Or imagine a game set in a post apocalyptic future. (Because every other game I saw at E3 was set in a post apocalyptic future...) But, instead of fighting over the scraps, players cooperate to rebuild a better society."


https://youtu.be/9Sq-EjKYp_Q

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#24 2019-07-13 15:03:55

Morti
Member
Registered: 2018-04-06
Posts: 415

Re: almost 2 months after the warsword was added.

CatX wrote:

"Year after year, the gaming industry seems to fall back on one underlying theme: Kill or be killed."

"The fact that 82% of the games featured at E3 [2017] are combat focused, illustrates a pretty serious lack of imagination."

"I make a distinction between combat and violence, because in combat the player is the one doing the violence."

"When combat is the game's central focus, it tends to celebrate that violence rather than frame it as a tragic last resort."

"[For many] Combat has now become synonymous with gameplay itself. The president of Nintendo America echoed this sentiment at E3 this year [2017]:

'The game is fun. The game is a battle. If it's not fun, why bother? If it's not a battle, where is the fun?'

That's an extremely narrow definition of what constitutes a game, and frankly a narrower definition of fun.

I'd argue that this obsession with violent gaming mechanics is holding the gaming industry back."

"[... ... ...] Or imagine a game set in a post apocalyptic future. (Because every other game I saw at E3 was set in a post apocalyptic future...) But, instead of fighting over the scraps, players cooperate to rebuild a better society."


https://youtu.be/9Sq-EjKYp_Q

Oh no, I fully agreed with a McIntosh video.
Guess I'm an SJW now. Sorry old Kekistanny Komrades, looks like I've joined the dark side.
Next thing you know I'll be listening to Anita Sarkeesian and dying my hair purple.

Yeah, no thanks.

But he did make great points about games. Points I would have never heard spoken about fairly from the Thunderf00t and Sargon of Akkad, type channels I generally check in on when I want to hear commentary about the socio-political aspects of gaming. Not that Phil or Carl are very gaming focused people, Carl is definitely more of gamer though, whereas Phil actually gets science done, while simultaneously countering bad ideas, which is why I've really enjoyed watching his work.

Luckily I know, from said channels, that there are things about Jonathan that I do disagree with, so, he will never get full support from me, but this isn't really about any of those people, is it? At least, I really hope it's not. Nor should it be about liberalism vs conservatism, capitalism vs socialism, democrats vs republicans, Corbyn vs May, or any of that other shit. None of it.

This is about violence vs compassion, death vs life, taking vs giving.

What it is to me, is about the mindset of humanity, I mean really, forget games for a moment. Focus on people, focus on humanity, focus on the minds and the attitudes that we foster from generation to generation. I love history. I love learning about great empires, like Rome, China, the Mongols, the Egyptians. I like how the more we communicate, the more we understand each other, the more can all benefit from each other's strengths and supplement each other's progress, where we are lacking.

I ultimately want cooperation on a global scale, but I really want that scale to include the Moon, Mars, and the entire Solar System. Just as I want us to find a balance with the rest of life, a balance we can bring with is, to new worlds.

Weapons really are the imbalance of life. Teeth, claws, toxins, even muscles, minds and our emotions, have been used as weapons to over power each other. We weaken others to secure our own positions, if we don't just outright remove what makes them what they are, from what they may become, in the future; by destroying their chance to grow, their chance to reproduce, or their life itself.

It's not even so much that I don't want people to be persuaded to kill each other. It's that I want everyone to live.

I want life to be about fostering more life.
I want more plants.
I want more animals.
I want more microbes and fungi.
I want NEW phyla, new kingdoms, to emerge from life in it's present state.
I want viruses and programs, embraced as living things, but I want more.
I want more of all of this, all of you, and all of everything that makes our awareness possible.
I want the chemistry of life made easier, I want it more efficient, I want it to grow, faster!

I want everything we do, to aid in the transformation of this entire universe.

I want to reproduce life under every condition, capable of doing the same.

Gas giants, stars, black holes; I want them all to be able to communicate in ways we can't even imagine yet. The way no single cell my body, would understand the way I am communicating to you, and to yours.

I was attracted to this game because it was about supporting life, but not just some simulations of life, because you, are the baby in my arms. Because inside of that avatar, I see you. I came here to help you grow. I came here to love you, for what I know you really are. I want this love of life itself, to reproduce in you.

I want you to know you are life; to see yourself, in every living thing around you.
I want you to see yourself, in every person. I want you to see the mirror, in ever person's eyes.
To hear your voice, in every child.
To know that every adult that speaks to you, is you, speaking to yourself.

That's just the easy part to understand.

Hearing yourself in the winds and the waves, that takes a little more effort. Those parts of us are so much older. Their language is, much, much older than this. It's older than our throat, or our lungs, and yet, if you listen, you know they are a part of you, by the sounds. Just as the ground is a part of you.

Mind's wandered.

You know, it's difficult to do this because I don't know where you're at. I don't know how much you've been taught because, we're so far away. Are we two cells on either ends of the same organ? Or are you in the heart, while I'm down here in the liver? I don't know. But I have this feeling we're both part of something greater than either of us, and I like it. I like being a part of it. I like this role. Do you think this big creature has any idea we can communicate with each other like this?

Do you think there are any more of them?

--

Whether we are different cells in the same organ, different organs in the same body, or different species in the same genus, we can only aid each other, if we exist. What good is a nervous system, without blood circulation? What good is a heart, without lungs?

--

Even if we get trade, if we manage to come up with some system of currency and give everything values, I probably won't take part in it, at least, I won't be a trader. Everything I make already belongs to everyone. What exists is beautifully simple and natural; we know so much, and can make things for each other, on the spot. From a basket, a bowl, some branches and stone, we could keep enough food growing to feed our families. Why complicate something so beautifully simple? Why deny fruit, from your family?

Before I go, one last thing, there never was a human Eve.

There was only one, Eve, of all life, 4 billion years ago, and it wasn't a woman, or a man, or even anything so complex as a virus.
It was just a few atoms in a soup of other molecules, that happened upon a pattern that allowed themselves, to make copies. A copy that added to itself over time, and hasn't stopped; that, will never stop.

Never stop.

You, the universe brought to life, don't ever stop that.

--

Little too far for game forum comment?

No, nothing is enough, for you.

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#25 2019-07-13 21:19:16

Averest
Member
Registered: 2018-12-04
Posts: 145

Re: almost 2 months after the warsword was added.

I finally decided to see what Jason's previous work, Castle Doctrine was. I've seen references to it on the boards over the last several months and I got curious.

I believe one reviewer referred to it as a wife murder simulator and that it was all about greed and paranoia.  Sounds about right.

It certainly did clear up a few things for me about the intended direction of OHOL. It was a fun run and I got my money's worth, so I certainly won't complain but I doubt I'll get back to playing on the main server. Just not my cup of tea I guess.

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