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a multiplayer game of parenting and civilization building

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#1 2020-03-08 02:04:39

Spoonwood
Member
Registered: 2019-02-06
Posts: 4,121

More Dehumanization

There's another change which says:

"Boiling the frog: eatBonus now starts at 2 for Eve and decays to 0 (was 1) with a half life of 4 generations."

for next week.

So, make no mistake, the game designer doesn't think of you as being like human families over time.  Instead your families have the complexity of a (hypothetical) frog in game, and that's all you deserve.  To get treated like a frog!  And a frog who deserves to die due to causes that they never realized would get them.

Also this:

"Late stage towns are absolutely overflowing with water and food from just a tiny bit of oil. Diesl water pump now gives 4 buckets of water (was 7) per pumping. Expected water produced via oil from one oil well is now 2640 (was 4620)."

As if the majority of players wanted less use from oil, even though there exist several threads about how planes and cars are no longer worth it.  And as if players have wanted locations to become unviable, even though some have called for long lasting towns before.  And as if there existed some objective matter on how things should be, instead of just some desire by someone.

Get your heads out of the sand!  This game isn't getting designed for you nor for other people in general and it won't be.  It's NOT about making more enjoyable gaming experiences for people, and likely never was about making more enjoyable gaming experiences for people.  Nor was it some sort of educational exercise.  Move on with your lives and do something else with your time!  And don't play this game... ever again!  Or try to dissuade others from playing by one means or another!

I predict that you'll have a better life if you stop playing and never play this game again.

Last edited by Spoonwood (2020-03-08 02:19:55)

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#2 2020-03-08 02:10:52

sigmen4020
Member
Registered: 2019-01-05
Posts: 849

Re: More Dehumanization

I seem to be getting a feeling of deja-vu from this thread.

I have no idea why. hmm


For the time being, I think we have enough content.

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#3 2020-03-08 02:37:27

fug
Moderator
Registered: 2019-08-21
Posts: 1,061

Re: More Dehumanization

Food hasn't needed the invisible food bonus for literally forever.

Oil is getting nerfed because one rig was producing so much water that one rig was worth 46.2 cisterns worth of water. Do you not see the problem with a single rig producing that much water?

Last edited by fug (2020-03-08 02:38:29)


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#4 2020-03-08 02:51:39

Legs
Member
Registered: 2019-07-12
Posts: 376

Re: More Dehumanization

Ironically the lack of water scarcity stems from the family specialization update.

Now there are only 2-3 towns and they're all running on diesel with several bells. Anyone that cares to can easily return to the same town every life. The difficult process of acquiring oil becomes much easier when all it takes is a little autism over several hours. Within one lifetime it's lucky if you can check each of the dozen marked tarry spots for viability. With six hours of intense unemployment it's easy to find and exploit any point within a thousand tiles for easy oil.

When you cheat with mods it's even easier. The game is clearly broken.

We need a pond based no-wells economy that only consumes omelettes and turkey, with foraging and furs. That's the ultimate endgame here. Anything else is unreasonable. Fuck content and technology. Jason wants everyone wandering through the woods with nothing but free wild food.


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#5 2020-03-08 02:59:38

DestinyCall
Member
Registered: 2018-12-08
Posts: 4,461

Re: More Dehumanization

Don't worry.   Once we are stuck in the swamps, eating nothing but waterless foods, Jason will nerf wild gooseberries and goose eggs too.

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#6 2020-03-08 03:07:54

Spoonwood
Member
Registered: 2019-02-06
Posts: 4,121

Re: More Dehumanization

fug wrote:

  Do you not see the problem with a single rig producing that much water?

No, there is no problem there.  There is no question there for inquiry.  There is no proposition there also.  And no, I don't find something that causes me perplexity, distress, or vexation.  Nor did I have a difficulty in understanding or accepting your claim, given your math as correctly deduced and you speak accurately.  Every definition of 'problem' from Merriam Webster's fails (unless it wasn't 46.2 cisterns worth of water): https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/problem Same goes for the Oxford dictionary: https://www.oxfordlearnersdictionaries. … /problem_1 

Such was also not a situation hard to deal with or difficult to understand.  It wasn't a person or a matter that caused me difficulty.  Nor was it a misgiving, objection, nor a complaint.  So, it also fails on the free dictionary's definitions of 'problem': https://www.thefreedictionary.com/problem

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#7 2020-03-08 03:09:50

JackTreehorn
Member
Registered: 2018-04-18
Posts: 174

Re: More Dehumanization

The game is not fun when there is no challenge. It's good that Jason is bringing back the challenge to the game.
You seem to be posting the same thing over and over again, maybe it's time you take your own advice.
You could always build a town in minecraft.


Eve Audette

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#8 2020-03-08 04:36:01

Coconut Fruit
Member
Registered: 2019-08-16
Posts: 825

Re: More Dehumanization

I'm very happy with these changes. 0 food bonus is too much anyway, should be -2, starting with +2 at first generations. I'm serious.
Getting oil from very far away is a problem because towns last too long so we just deplete all tarry spots we find. We have 2-3 towns where we live over and over again. Boring.


But there is one funny change

live-dev-changes wrote:

To keep things fresh, we force-spawn a new Eve when everyone on the server is part of a family that is over generation 40 (every family at least roughly 10 hours old).

I'm worried it won't make things fresh. New family will eventually move to the same huge towns. It doesn't matter that we get a new name if we will live in the same towns.

Unless it spawns too far away... I wonder what will that new family do without other races nearby... probably die out in a few generations.


Making own private server (Very easy! You can play on it even if you haven't bought the game)
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#9 2020-03-08 05:15:22

Jojigirl
Member
Registered: 2019-02-16
Posts: 245

Re: More Dehumanization

Spoonwood wrote:

  Move on with your lives and do something else with your time!

I suggest you take your own advice!

Spoonwood wrote:

I predict that you'll have a better life if you stop playing and never play this game again.

I predict that you'll have a better life if you stop stalking a game that you do not like and never think about this game again!

Last edited by Jojigirl (2020-03-08 05:15:58)

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#10 2020-03-08 06:06:58

Coconut Fruit
Member
Registered: 2019-08-16
Posts: 825

Re: More Dehumanization

Btw, I don't think race restriction will ever be good for this game. We don't even have enough population to make them work properly.

Last edited by Coconut Fruit (2020-03-08 06:07:15)


Making own private server (Very easy! You can play on it even if you haven't bought the game)
Zoom mod
Mini guide for beginners
website with all recipies

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#11 2020-03-08 06:25:55

bpskotch
Member
Registered: 2020-01-18
Posts: 60

Re: More Dehumanization

Coconut Fruit wrote:

I'm very happy with these changes. 0 food bonus is too much anyway, should be -2, starting with +2 at first generations. I'm serious.
Getting oil from very far away is a problem because towns last too long so we just deplete all tarry spots we find. We have 2-3 towns where we live over and over again. Boring.

A town lasting a long time wouldn't be a problem is there were more content to give players in developed towns things to do (not toy/fun things, but necessary things) Of course, the cry for content is nothing new in this community. A single, solo developer, no matter how talented or good they are, cannot keep up with the demands of content that a modern gamer generally needs.

Also, a small player base = few populated towns = you'll see a lot of the same towns over and over.

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#12 2020-03-08 08:13:45

Coconut Fruit
Member
Registered: 2019-08-16
Posts: 825

Re: More Dehumanization

bpskotch wrote:

Also, a small player base = few populated towns = you'll see a lot of the same towns over and over.

If we had no race restrictions we would have as many towns as families. Each time a family died out we would have another fam and another town.
That would bring variety and fun.


Making own private server (Very easy! You can play on it even if you haven't bought the game)
Zoom mod
Mini guide for beginners
website with all recipies

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#13 2020-03-08 10:35:48

sigmen4020
Member
Registered: 2019-01-05
Posts: 849

Re: More Dehumanization

Coconut Fruit wrote:

I'm very happy with these changes. 0 food bonus is too much anyway, should be -2, starting with +2 at first generations. I'm serious.
Getting oil from very far away is a problem because towns last too long so we just deplete all tarry spots we find. We have 2-3 towns where we live over and over again. Boring.


But there is one funny change

live-dev-changes wrote:

To keep things fresh, we force-spawn a new Eve when everyone on the server is part of a family that is over generation 40 (every family at least roughly 10 hours old).

I'm worried it won't make things fresh. New family will eventually move to the same huge towns. It doesn't matter that we get a new name if we will live in the same towns.

Unless it spawns too far away... I wonder what will that new family do without other races nearby... probably die out in a few generations.

Problem with a negative food bonus is that you make some of the low pip foods like popcorn completely worthless. Popcorn would be worth -1 pips if a -2 bonus was added. If such a thing was considered the change should make sure that no food can be worth less than 1 pip.


For the time being, I think we have enough content.

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#14 2020-03-08 12:16:04

Ilka
Member
Registered: 2018-07-25
Posts: 212

Re: More Dehumanization

Well, before the apocalypse, I was playing on a server with a small population.
For the first time in a long time.
Do you know that there are no  racial or tools restrictionson empty servers?
Then I played on a regular server.
And playing with other players was more boring to me than playing alone.
This is really bad.
On the main server I was a man and I just didn't know what to do.
I ended up riding on the road and I don't know why.

I have no problems with the food bonus (this will be a problem for new players).
But ... the reduction of oil and higher hunger levels will cause cities to die out even faster.
Where is it more interesting?
It will be just as boring but more annoying.

I feel sorry for this game.
She provided me with hours of extraordinary fun.

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#15 2020-03-08 15:07:22

Spoonwood
Member
Registered: 2019-02-06
Posts: 4,121

Re: More Dehumanization

Ilka wrote:

Do you know that there are no  racial or tools restrictionson empty servers?

Hair based restrictions and tool limitations don't exist when a server has less than 15 players on it. 

But you're correct, if a server is empty, there are no such restrictions of players on it.  Because there are no players on it, there's no one that can have such restrictions.

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#16 2020-03-08 15:57:34

Ilka
Member
Registered: 2018-07-25
Posts: 212

Re: More Dehumanization

WOW! Spoonwood you are brilliant.
I would never have made it up.
So it's ALMOST empty servers, servers with low population, servers whith single player or only a few players.
Are you satisfied now?
I don't follow all the corrections made by Jason, so it's nowelty to me.
And a step in the right direction.
It's much nicer to play without these nonsense restrictions.

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#17 2020-03-08 16:23:32

testo
Member
Registered: 2019-05-12
Posts: 696

Re: More Dehumanization

fug wrote:

Food hasn't needed the invisible food bonus for literally forever.

Oil is getting nerfed because one rig was producing so much water that one rig was worth 46.2 cisterns worth of water. Do you not see the problem with a single rig producing that much water?

I don´t usually follow Spoonwoods train of thought, but in this case the amount of water produced per oil is in my opinion not the problem.

If we expect a town to develop any sensible way of actual civilization (just as the premise of the game) we have to expect a water and resources surplus and not the other way around. Big cities and empires benefited in some way or another from resource abundance and not from scarcity. Given that oil is a) Region limited and scarce b)Hard to find and c)Non renewable i´d say there is no problem with that much water.

Of course you only argue about a number because a small group of people think the game is "not challenging" if there is no scarcity. In this sense this game has progressibely abandon its premise from civilization building to surviving. I you truly believe in the premise about civilization then you should recheck the numbers:

Shallow well 1.3 cistern average
Deep well 3.3 cisterns average
Newcomen pump 12.3 cisterns average.

Do you follow the patern? Every step is about 3 to 4 times the step before. That is obviously related to the needs of a growing town.

Now we are facing a drop from 46 to 26 cisterns worth of value in water from an oil rig.
Why? Because people like you find it boring and unchallenging when theres too much water and nothing else to do.

I say the problem is in the second part of my last sentence: there is nothing else to do, meaning exaclty what everyone has been telling from six months ago: WE NEED CONTENT.

If we had a nice way to use the water in construction, crafting, art, cooking and others there would be nobody bored about too much water. If we had a decent alternative to use kerosene (cars and planes are laughable) then we would have an actual choice in terms of water or "something else". But no, nerfing water is the best way to keep everyone on their toes and doing something before they note we haven´t had a tech improvement since a year or so.
Seriously, I love Jasons latest attempts to fix old stuff but this is a big dump on everything.

Do you really think nerfing food bonus and dropping about 50% water from the oil rig is "boiling the frog"?


- I believe the term "Berrymuncher" is derogatory and therefore I shall use the term "Berrier" instead.

- Jack Ass

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#18 2020-03-08 19:08:26

Spoonwood
Member
Registered: 2019-02-06
Posts: 4,121

Re: More Dehumanization

Ilka wrote:

So it's ALMOST empty servers, servers with low population, servers whith single player or only a few players.
Are you satisfied now?

It's also empty servers.  The code has an inequality, and '0' gets recognized as a number, as the reflector usually suggests: http://onehouronelife.com/reflector/ser … ion=report

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#19 2020-03-08 19:14:54

DestinyCall
Member
Registered: 2018-12-08
Posts: 4,461

Re: More Dehumanization

Spoonwood wrote:
Ilka wrote:

So it's ALMOST empty servers, servers with low population, servers whith single player or only a few players.
Are you satisfied now?

It's also empty servers.  The code has an inequality, and '0' gets recognized as a number, as the reflector usually suggests: http://onehouronelife.com/reflector/ser … ion=report

If a tree falls on an empty server, and no one is around to hear it, does it make a sound?

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#20 2020-03-08 19:29:44

sigmen4020
Member
Registered: 2019-01-05
Posts: 849

Re: More Dehumanization

DestinyCall wrote:
Spoonwood wrote:
Ilka wrote:

So it's ALMOST empty servers, servers with low population, servers whith single player or only a few players.
Are you satisfied now?

It's also empty servers.  The code has an inequality, and '0' gets recognized as a number, as the reflector usually suggests: http://onehouronelife.com/reflector/ser … ion=report

If a tree falls on an empty server, and no one is around to hear it, does it make a sound?

Nope, just like how rabbits don't come into existence if noone's around.


For the time being, I think we have enough content.

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#21 2020-03-08 19:35:28

Ilka
Member
Registered: 2018-07-25
Posts: 212

Re: More Dehumanization

Spoonwood wrote:
Ilka wrote:

So it's ALMOST empty servers, servers with low population, servers whith single player or only a few players.
Are you satisfied now?

It's also empty servers.  The code has an inequality, and '0' gets recognized as a number, as the reflector usually suggests: http://onehouronelife.com/reflector/ser … ion=report

So one equals zero.
This explains the lack of restrictions on empty servers with one player.
Yes.

DestinyCall wrote:

If a tree falls on an empty server, and no one is around to hear it, does it make a sound?

Jason hears everything and is always around.
He hears the cry of the worm you pull from the soil.
Soon he will punish us all for throwing worms.

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#22 2020-03-08 21:04:16

Spoonwood
Member
Registered: 2019-02-06
Posts: 4,121

Re: More Dehumanization

Ilka wrote:

So one equals zero.
This explains the lack of restrictions on empty servers with one player.

No, it doesn't follow from that, that one equals zero.

Empty servers do not have one player.

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#23 2020-03-08 21:28:17

DestinyCall
Member
Registered: 2018-12-08
Posts: 4,461

Re: More Dehumanization

Spoonwood wrote:
Ilka wrote:

So one equals zero.
This explains the lack of restrictions on empty servers with one player.

No, it doesn't follow from that, that one equals zero.

Empty servers do not have one player.

Are you sure?    Sometimes I think there's nobody in the next room, but then I hear a thump.  Could be the pipes.   

It's probably just the pipes, right?

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#24 2020-03-08 22:54:04

Solbusaur
Member
Registered: 2018-07-15
Posts: 355

Re: More Dehumanization

Spoonwood wrote:

Move on with your lives and do something else with your time!  And don't play this game... ever again!  Or try to dissuade others from playing by one means or another!
I predict that you'll have a better life if you stop playing and never play this game again.

T  h  e  n  w  h  y  a  r  e  y  o  u  s  t  i  l  l  h  e  r  e  ?


Favourite Lives: MrDryer/ChirpChapley (Eva II) Town Nurse (Beth Storm) Ma's Best Li'l Helper (Law Autry), The Latex Lord (Kevin Youree), 60 Years a Blacksmith (Victoire Mom) The Egglord's Apprentice (Thomas II), Big Blood Brother (Dante), Horse racer on doomsday (Lilly Tana)
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#25 2020-03-08 22:57:23

Legs
Member
Registered: 2019-07-12
Posts: 376

Re: More Dehumanization

Solbusaur wrote:

T  h  e  n  w  h  y  a  r  e  y  o  u  s  t  i  l  l  h  e  r  e  ?

Just to suffer?


Loco Motion

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