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#151 2019-03-06 01:13:08

Peremptive
Member
Registered: 2019-02-14
Posts: 199

Re: Open Letter to the Mobile Developers

jasonrohrer wrote:

The problem is really this:  copies of your work can be made without you ever finding out about it, and without you ever being capable of finding out about it.  And thus, if you can't even know it, how can you possibly claimed to be harmed by it?
...
So, for me, it's always been:  I'm not really going to stop you, so why pretend that I will?  It's in the public domain as an acknowledgement of that reality.

Copyright doesn't really fit with the rest of your logic of having an open game and allowing people to expand the ohol universe and potentially make money off of it. But the main point of copyright is that when you do know about it, and can claim to be harmed by it, you have some legal recourse. Really really expensive, long, soul draining legal recourse. And well, good luck claiming copyright infringement in China.

I'm not a creator, so I probably haven't put as much thought into it and for as long as you. But a non commercial licence would have saved you from this headache. A headache which of course as you stated is unprecedented. That way you allow fans to play with it and you can always give off adaptation rights, even for free, but in a way that allows you to protect your work.

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#152 2019-03-06 04:10:32

CrazyEddie
Member
Registered: 2018-11-12
Posts: 676

Re: Open Letter to the Mobile Developers

Greep wrote:

Well my personal hate of IP laws is just how people can abuse the length of them.  There's no sensible reason for copyright to last like 70 years or whatever the heck it is (edit: yeesh, the authors whole life plus 70 years), or trademark lasting literally forever if used forever.  You can of course, give up the rights later after you've made your mark and people generally know who to credit the original work.

Even people who "hate IP laws" should be very happy about trademark. Trademark laws don't benefit the holders of them, they benefit the public. They exist so that the public knows who made which product and can have some confidence that when they buy Thing X they're getting the same thing as the last time they bought Thing X (because the brand is tied to the manufacturer and the manufacturer bears the reputational cost of ensuring the quality of their products).

It serves the function of trademark - and thus, serves the public interest - for trademark rights to persist as long as the trade in the trademarked product persists. That's why they never expire as long as they continue to be used. And again, that's a good thing for everyone.

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#153 2019-03-06 05:54:45

lionon
Member
Registered: 2018-11-19
Posts: 532

Re: Open Letter to the Mobile Developers

As I see it, we got two issues.

First the confusion of players, reviewers, who think (and are made to think) they play the original on mobile. -> This is really exactly the reason what trademarks are for. And from what I read there is some confusion about it, it's not a kind of "backup copyright" it's really a complete different beast. A TM would be easy to circumvent, call your variation "60 Minutes One life" and no TM issues there... Also users are not confused, so exactly as planned. In practice the only "evil" thing about TMs I see is that there are cases of people selling stuff and suddendly get their "trademark" "claim/stolen" by someone else. As for example, there used to be some kind of cheese produced all around, some region claimed that name, so everyone else had to rename it (not strictly a trademark thing but other regulations, but for an internet argument I don't bother about details smile). Or for example "Apple" the Music Label from the Beatles, and "Apple" computers who co-existed long without issue, because different markets get in conflict once Apple sold music computers. I read on the mobile forums, the chinese publisher registered the trademark for the literal translation of one hour one life? Thats another case of just completely missing tactfulness. It might easily be challenged anyway.

The other issue is, people arrogantly claiming sole authorship. There is not much to wield against that, except making public aware about it. Yes any license except public domain would require reference, but as been pointed out, this can be so well hidden, the public wouldn't notice. You got only a case if it would have not been there at all. As far I looked up, making a case about fraud is going would be very difficult to get through. For example young people claiming to have made their "own operating system" which on close inspection turns out to be a rebranded Linux happen with certain regularity.

I suppose both issues can be settled by the willing parties without courts.

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#154 2019-03-06 07:34:45

BladeWoods
Member
Registered: 2018-08-11
Posts: 476

Re: Open Letter to the Mobile Developers

A weapon that I guess anyone interested could use against Dual Decade is to make their own OHOL for mobile and undercut them.

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#155 2019-03-06 08:05:35

jasonrohrer
Administrator
Registered: 2017-02-13
Posts: 4,737

Re: Open Letter to the Mobile Developers

Wait, where was it claimed that the Chinese publisher registered a trademark for One Hour One Life?  Link please....

If that is true, this has become an even bigger nightmare than I have imagined.....  getting sued for distributing the game that I created under the title that I invented....

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#156 2019-03-06 08:30:49

Portager
Member
Registered: 2018-03-09
Posts: 217

Re: Open Letter to the Mobile Developers

Jason, this legal blog claims that they can seek trademark for OHOL, although it would be tricky. Read the comments at the bottom:

https://legalinspiration.com/?p=682#more-682

I know some Chinese, I will try to search and see if anyone is trying to trademark it.

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#157 2019-03-06 08:52:04

lionon
Member
Registered: 2018-11-19
Posts: 532

Re: Open Letter to the Mobile Developers

jasonrohrer wrote:

Wait, where was it claimed that the Chinese publisher registered a trademark for One Hour One Life?  Link please....

If that is true, this has become an even bigger nightmare than I have imagined.....  getting sued for distributing the game that I created under the title that I invented....

In the topic which you linked previously.

https://forum.onehouronelife.app/t/a-de … on/3957/44

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#158 2019-03-06 16:19:35

BadKat
Member
Registered: 2019-03-04
Posts: 1

Re: Open Letter to the Mobile Developers

Jason, I sent you an email with screenshots.  The individual who noted the Chinese trademark/copyright had asked you to log in to your discord at the time.  I assumed you had seen the posts in the thread.

While searching for both forum to create my bookmarks on PC today I noted two interesting things:

Looks like DualDecade has some competition on the mobile market as of two days ago:

https://apk.games/com-one-hour-one-life

Game Industry picked up on the conflict and wrote about it:

https://www.gamesindustry.biz/articles/ … rized-port

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#159 2019-03-06 17:02:13

Redram
Member
Registered: 2018-08-16
Posts: 113

Re: Open Letter to the Mobile Developers

Portager wrote:

Jason, this legal blog claims that they can seek trademark for OHOL, although it would be tricky. Read the comments at the bottom:

That blog is spot-on, whoever wrote it definitely read the entire topic, unlike a lot of people. 

As far as trademark, I'd guess a lot depends if the Chinese are registering it just in China's system, or internationally.  I think Jason would have no trouble trademarking in the US because the record of him having original use is clear and overwhelming imo.   But outside the US, it's going to be a fight probably.  Especially in China.  And not a cheap one I'm guessing.  They say an ounce of prevention is worth a pound of cure.  Jason may find that a free to $250 assertion of trademark may have been worth many thousands of dollars in litigation, if it would have dissuaded those actions in the first place.

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#160 2019-03-06 17:27:11

Chard
Moderator
Registered: 2018-03-04
Posts: 125

Re: Open Letter to the Mobile Developers

BadKat wrote:

Looks like DualDecade has some competition on the mobile market as of two days ago:

https://apk.games/com-one-hour-one-life

Check the year, BadKat. That’s over a year ago.

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#161 2019-03-06 18:10:29

Christoffer
Member
From: Sweden
Registered: 2018-04-06
Posts: 148
Website

Re: Open Letter to the Mobile Developers

We are still working on laying out our improvements, but in the mean time, I am telling my side of the story here: https://onehouronelife.com/forums/viewt … 614#p48614

This is not to tear at the wound, but to give my side of the story. I feel that's fair at this point.

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#162 2019-03-06 20:01:01

SSDarkMoon
Member
Registered: 2018-03-05
Posts: 47

Re: Open Letter to the Mobile Developers

jasonrohrer wrote:

Well, they did offer me a cut of the money.  They always have.  They still are offering me a cut.  They want to be the official mobile port.


er......I through they don't pay you the money......And I insult them with words and give a 1 star on taptap.
but if they do... then some of the problem is fixed....

you worry the most is Chinese player don't know who the creator is you.
I am super sure many of them know, because they need to know what update you are doing.

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#163 2019-03-06 20:06:28

Redram
Member
Registered: 2018-08-16
Posts: 113

Re: Open Letter to the Mobile Developers

SSDarkMoon wrote:

er......I through they don't pay you the money......And I insult them with words and give a 1 star on taptap.
but if they do... then some of the problem is fixed....

This is why it's best to get the full story, rather than third-hand info.  Anyone who read this entire topic would have seen this fact mentioned several times.   This topic has been remarkable for the degree of candor displayed by both sides, in ways that don't really help them.  Well, maybe Jason mostly.  But the fact remains this info was here, one just has to look.

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#164 2019-03-06 20:07:35

Jk Howling
Member
From: Washington State
Registered: 2018-06-16
Posts: 468

Re: Open Letter to the Mobile Developers

SSDarkMoon wrote:
jasonrohrer wrote:

Well, they did offer me a cut of the money.  They always have.  They still are offering me a cut.  They want to be the official mobile port.


er......I through they don't pay you the money......And I insult them with words and give a 1 star on taptap.
but if they do... then some of the problem is fixed....

you worry the most is Chinese player don't know who the creator is you.
I am super sure many of them know, because they need to know what update you are doing.

They offered him a cut of their profits from the beginning. Jason didn't accept it though. From my understanding, his only concern is proper credit and player confusion, not profits.


-Has ascended to better games-

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#165 2019-03-06 20:17:48

SSDarkMoon
Member
Registered: 2018-03-05
Posts: 47

Re: Open Letter to the Mobile Developers

Redram wrote:

This is why it's best to get the full story, rather than third-hand info.  Anyone who read this entire topic would have seen this fact mentioned several times.   This topic has been remarkable for the degree of candor displayed by both sides, in ways that don't really help them.  Well, maybe Jason mostly.  But the fact remains this info was here, one just has to look.

we all know Jason is super stubborn on what he thinking.....

If there is no money issue, I think things don't need to go to law Level.


The moblie developer is working hard and love this game.
If they need to announce "Not approved by original author Jason Rohrer"
It will be super hart breaking to them. They think they got a Solid approval.


(And I never remember Jason Full name.......It is soo hard to memory even I see the name every day)

Last edited by SSDarkMoon (2019-03-06 20:46:12)

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#166 2019-03-06 22:22:24

breezeknight
Member
Registered: 2018-04-02
Posts: 813

Re: Open Letter to the Mobile Developers

jasonrohrer wrote:

ryanb, you are correct.  Except:

They published a version where they took sole credit with no explanation for 40 days in China, where it was seen and interacted with by more people than ever saw or interacted with the game in its entire history.

The very explicit and hard-to-miss wording is an attempt to correct for that.  Hopefully, whatever Chinese people are still playing the game will be unable to miss it.

The very explicit wording may only need be a temporary thing.  I'm not sure.  Right now, there is so much confusion that more extreme measures need to be taken.


The title change is a similar measure, but also meant to differentiate the service being offered, which is NOT in the public domain.  My service is the official one, offered by me, while the mobile service is not.  Also meant to clear up confusion about where the money is going.


For example, I forgot to mention that I've also receive emails from mobile players asking for refunds.  The game didn't work on their phone, can they have their money back.  Umm...

Also, you can imagine a nightmare scenario where the mobile servers go down for a week, and everyone gets mad at me, and thinks that I'm a bad developer.

If everyone knows it's "unofficial," these confusions won't be possible.



OneTech does not create confusion about the service being offered or where the money is going.

you stated from the beginning the same - you don't want to be mixed up as the developer of the mobile port
if they were serious about mending the frictions, then they would have asked some lawyers by now how they have to word it correctly, so there is no misunderstanding among their players

but i suspect meantime, they just hope to get you where they want to have you, namely to succumb to the greed & sign your name under their mobile app
yeah, a nightmare

one thing is uplifting though
apparently you created something that's addictive enough to spur such a debacle big_smile

- - -

Last edited by breezeknight (2019-03-06 22:24:25)

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#167 2019-03-06 22:50:21

jasonrohrer
Administrator
Registered: 2017-02-13
Posts: 4,737

Re: Open Letter to the Mobile Developers

FYI, this was discovered today:

http://www.1hourlife.com/web.html

D0_oqCGUwAAsWqb.jpg

Anyone recognize those trees?  That grass?  That turkey?

Klei is looking into this, but in the mean time, I read this, which is interesting:

http://support.kleientertainment.com/cu … guidelines

Anyway, that's one studio's take on this issue of derivative works.


Also, I find it hilarious that they copied my Steam logo... but changed the font.

1.jpg
header.jpg?t=1541703627


And finally, I downloaded the TapTap store app on my android tablet here...  The Chinese version has this VERY weird header image, clearly hacked together from some of the game's sprites, and creating a scene that would be impossible in-game (why does that guy have that coat on his shoulder?)

kih7mXt.jpg

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#168 2019-03-06 23:18:38

voy178
Member
Registered: 2018-08-18
Posts: 290

Re: Open Letter to the Mobile Developers

Traditional bootleg.

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#169 2019-03-06 23:47:53

jord1990
Moderator
Registered: 2018-03-03
Posts: 185

Re: Open Letter to the Mobile Developers

He is obviously using his coat as a float Jason.... incase he falls into the goose pond. He just cant swim.

In all seriousness. I do wonder if duel decade did a tiny bit of research on the type of people they went into business in. Seems the "accidents" keep pilling on....

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#170 2019-03-07 00:45:20

jasonrohrer
Administrator
Registered: 2017-02-13
Posts: 4,737

Re: Open Letter to the Mobile Developers

For anyone who doesn't know what they're looking at, all the background graphics are lifted directly from Don't Starve.

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#171 2019-03-07 05:27:45

carbon
Member
Registered: 2018-08-09
Posts: 47

Re: Open Letter to the Mobile Developers

The publisher would've yoinked the IP and assets even if Christoffer wasn't involved. They probably partnered up with him to gain access to the touch screen control scheme (which I don't think is public domain since Christoffer developed it) and inject ads into the app.

Now that the company realized that it's public domain/don't actually care about international IP laws, they probably severed ties with Christoffer and went full ham to maximize profits.

Let's be real, companies clearly don't care about the creator's moral system. You know what they say, "The money is always right!"

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#172 2019-03-07 10:41:03

Greep
Member
Registered: 2018-12-16
Posts: 289

Re: Open Letter to the Mobile Developers

I like how they're gathering around to eat wood shavings


Likes sword based eve names.  Claymore, blades, sword.  Never understimate the blades!

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#173 2019-03-07 11:33:19

st2019
Member
Registered: 2019-03-04
Posts: 50

Re: Open Letter to the Mobile Developers

jasonrohrer wrote:

FYI, this was discovered today:

And finally, I downloaded the TapTap store app on my android tablet here...  The Chinese version has this VERY weird header image, clearly hacked together from some of the game's sprites, and creating a scene that would be impossible in-game (why does that guy have that coat on his shoulder?)

I think because they were naked and that might not be allowed. Then they had not much time to change it in a good looking way. So they "just put some clothes on". All three persons in this picture are covered with some additional clothes. They have a sharper resolution.

Last edited by st2019 (2019-03-07 11:35:07)


I'm an expert for: Sharp Stones

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#174 2019-03-07 15:11:21

Christoffer
Member
From: Sweden
Registered: 2018-04-06
Posts: 148
Website

Re: Open Letter to the Mobile Developers

Updated the actions in the other thread. Post #2.
https://onehouronelife.com/forums/viewtopic.php?id=5534

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#175 2019-03-07 17:45:05

futurebird
Member
Registered: 2019-02-20
Posts: 1,553

Re: Open Letter to the Mobile Developers

You should let the people who created Don't Starve know about this. I hate these kinds of half-assed games. Some of the time you buy one by mistake when someone tells you about a great game and you don't remember the exact name. Then it's something hacked together and hardly playable.

That happened to me with a puzzle game a few years back and now I do more research.


---
omnem cibum costis
tantum baca, non facies opus

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